ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

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Pearcey
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Pearcey » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:51 pm

Nothing new in those articles to be honest. Would be nice to get both over the line though.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by DCWat » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:11 pm

Now I see why we bought Wells, it was simply forward planning for a makeweight in summer 2018.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by IanMcL » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:58 pm

claretblue wrote:also one of the clubs interested in Rodriguez, Bournemouth, are reportedly set to pull out of the chase, preferring to concentrate on Wilson.
Now that is a castaway!

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by ClaretShaun » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:56 pm

If we can get both for only £30m then we really have had their pants down.

Barring any major outgoings it’ll pretty much sort our summer business out all in one go, you’d expect maybe 1, max 2 more ‘fillers’ on top of these two

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by claretspice » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:11 pm

I suspect that they would be our two marquee signings, certainly - unless Mee were to depart.

I could imagine us also wanting to add another option on the flank, especially down the left (we've 3 real wide options following the departures of Arfield and Nkoudou, and only Brady of those prefers the left), and possibly another option in the centre of midfield who can add real legs and forward drive (again, only Hendrick of our midfielders is particularly comfortable at the top of a midfield 3, or has real box-to-box athleticism). But both of these players would, to my mind, be back up players - ideally, whilst I don't especially buy into the idea of needing to "buy young", players with potential who are on the way up.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Spijed » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:14 pm

ClaretShaun wrote:If we can get both for only £30m then we really have had their pants down.
How much do you think they are worth?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Goobs » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:32 pm

Spijed wrote:How much do you think they are worth?
Image

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by ClaretShaun » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:37 pm

Spijed wrote:How much do you think they are worth?
Quite a lot more than the £28.5m we paid for the speculative punts (one on old money too) that were Hendrick and Wood.

Both paid off and both are definite PL performers .... but Dawson & Rod as a brace should cost a lot more than the other pair did ‘at point of sale’

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by ClaretShaun » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:39 pm

claretspice wrote:I suspect that they would be our two marquee signings, certainly - unless Mee were to depart.

I could imagine us also wanting to add another option on the flank, especially down the left (we've 3 real wide options following the departures of Arfield and Nkoudou, and only Brady of those prefers the left), and possibly another option in the centre of midfield who can add real legs and forward drive (again, only Hendrick of our midfielders is particularly comfortable at the top of a midfield 3, or has real box-to-box athleticism). But both of these players would, to my mind, be back up players - ideally, whilst I don't especially buy into the idea of needing to "buy young", players with potential who are on the way up.
Yeah you could see a 4th choice winger and / or w 5th choice centre mid coming in. Maybe loans but ideally someone costing about £5m/£10m from these shores

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by KRBFC » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:46 pm

ClaretShaun wrote:Quite a lot more than the £28.5m we paid for the speculative punts (one on old money too) that were Hendrick and Wood.

Both paid off and both are definite PL performers .... but Dawson & Rod as a brace should cost a lot more than the other pair did ‘at point of sale’
I don't see how a relegated 29 year old Rodriguez is worth ''quite a lot more'' than a 25 year old striker who scored 27 goals in the Championship (top goalscorer in the entire division).

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:59 pm

KRBFC wrote:I don't see how a relegated 29 year old Rodriguez is worth ''quite a lot more'' than a 25 year old striker who scored 27 goals in the Championship (top goalscorer in the entire division).
Hi KRBFC, are footballers "over the hill" at 29? What is the age of that guy who scored 3 for Portugal a few days back?

What is the value of a fit Jay Rod with Premier League experience compared with Chris Wood, before he got his Premier League experience?

Whatever it is, they'd make a good "front two" option.

UTC

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by KRBFC » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:01 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi KRBFC, are footballers "over the hill" at 29? What is the age of that guy who scored 3 for Portugal a few days back?

What is the value of a fit Jay Rod with Premier League experience compared with Chris Wood, before he got his Premier League experience?

Whatever it is, they'd make a good "front two" option.

UTC
I wouldn't say they're over the hill at 29 but age certainly has an impact on market value. I'd value a 4 year younger Wood coming off at 27 goal season higher than a 29 year old Rodriguez. Comparing Ronaldo with anybody else is pretty stupid though. Yeah I think Rodriguez will be a good addition.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Spijed » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:12 pm

ClaretShaun wrote:Quite a lot more than the £28.5m we paid for the speculative punts (one on old money too) that were Hendrick and Wood.

Both paid off and both are definite PL performers .... but Dawson & Rod as a brace should cost a lot more than the other pair did ‘at point of sale’
So Wood, who had scored 30 goals in the Championship peviously, was a speculative punt at 18 million?

What about Cork, Brady or Defour then?

Are you on the wind up by any chance, as it sounds like it?
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:17 pm

KRBFC wrote:I wouldn't say they're over the hill at 29 but age certainly has an impact on market value. I'd value a 4 year younger Wood coming off at 27 goal season higher than a 29 year old Rodriguez. Comparing Ronaldo with anybody else is pretty stupid though. Yeah I think Rodriguez will be a good addition.
OK. At what age do you expect Ronaldo's market value to be impacted?

And, no, I am not suggesting JayRod is in any sense comparable with Portugal's "super star."

However, I'd love it if you are correct and Chris Wood has a 27 goal season for the Clarets 2018/19.

UTC

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by claretspice » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:18 pm

I think there's something in the argument that Rodriguez is on the one hand less valuable than Wood because he has less resale value, but on the other hand more valuable because he is pretty well proven at Premier League level.

I've said a few times that I'm not completely sold on either Dawson or Jay for different reasons, but if Dyche has determined that they're the men he wants then fair enough, and £30 million for a pair of players in their prime who have about 250 Premier League appearances seems about market these days to me.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Spijed » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:24 pm

claretspice wrote:I've said a few times that I'm not completely sold on either Dawson or Jay for different reasons, but if Dyche has determined that they're the men he wants then fair enough, and £30 million for a pair of players in their prime who have about 250 Premier League appearances seems about market these days to me.
Wouldn't Dawson be a natural replacement for Mee, if he either goes, or gets injured during the season?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by KRBFC » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:25 pm

Paul Waine wrote:OK. At what age do you expect Ronaldo's market value to be impacted?

And, no, I am not suggesting JayRod is in any sense comparable with Portugal's "super star."

However, I'd love it if you are correct and Chris Wood has a 27 goal season for the Clarets 2018/19.

UTC
Ronaldo's value will probably never be affected heavily because of the value he holds off the field, in terms of his on field value it will be impacted when he shows he's slowing down but we'll probably never see that because he'll likely retire when he knows it's time.

I never said Wood will score 27 goals for us in a season, so if he did I wouldn't be correct. What I said was we bought him after he'd scored 27 goals in a season.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by claretspice » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:29 pm

Spijed wrote:Wouldn't Dawson be a natural replacement for Mee, if he either goes, or gets injured during the season?
He's right sided, and I don't know if he's a natural leader and organiser as Mee is, so no - not sure he is. And also, perhaps unfairly, I can't help but notice that the season in which he regularly stepped into play centre back at WBA is the year they went down. But anyway, if Dyche wants him then fair enough, that's the end of the conversation really.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:10 pm

KRBFC wrote:Ronaldo's value will probably never be affected heavily because of the value he holds off the field, in terms of his on field value it will be impacted when he shows he's slowing down but we'll probably never see that because he'll likely retire when he knows it's time.

I never said Wood will score 27 goals for us in a season, so if he did I wouldn't be correct. What I said was we bought him after he'd scored 27 goals in a season.
So, re Ronaldo: I asked "at what age do you expect Ronaldo's market value to be impacted?

And, you've replied:
1) "will probably never be affected because of the value he holds off the field." Fair enough, but are we referencing the same "market value?"
2) "in terms of his on field value it will be impacted when he shows he's slowing down" - I agree. What age do you think he will be when he shows he's slowing down?
3) "he'll likely retire when he knows it's time" - again, I agree. What age do you expect he will take this decision?

Re JayRod and Chris Wood - I agree, Chris Wood scored 27 goals in Championship for Leeds. And, I know it's a little exaggeration to expect him to score 27 in Premier League for Burnley - and we'd all be delighted if he could score maybe 15 this coming season - with, or without JayRod chipping in with double figures alongside him.

No worries. The season is drawing closer plus the Europa League.

UTC

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Reecey1987 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:55 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... iguez.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says we have had a 12 million bid rejected for jay no mention of dawson . 12 million seems a bit low for a player of his calibre considering how much they paid for him

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:28 am

Reecey1987 wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... iguez.html says we have had a 12 million bid rejected for jay no mention of dawson . 12 million seems a bit low for a player of his calibre considering how much they paid for him
Didn't West Brom pay £12m for him? If so it seems about right on that basis.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Reecey1987 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:33 am

aggi wrote:Didn't West Brom pay £12m for him? If so it seems about right on that basis.
I sure it was around 18 m

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:42 am

Reecey1987 wrote:I sure it was around 18 m
BBC say £12m https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40474577" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He still had a few years left on his contract too at that point so they weren't getting him cheap as his contract was expiring.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by claretspice » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:04 am

I'm not sure the price WBA paid for Jay is all that relevant. 12 months ago, he was at a club that saw him as surplus to requirements. He also had serious question marks over his career, and at the very least there was a doubt about his ability to continue to perform at Premier League level, given his injuries. So any club bidding for him factored those things in.

I'm not sure his performances this season suggest he's the player he was before his injuries, but they do suggest that he is both over his injuries, and still has the quality to perform at Premier League level (albeit in a slightly different role to the one he once played with such distinction for Southampton when he got his England cap). And he's at a club that is desperate to keep him. That makes the circumstances very different to 12 months ago and the price tag WBA want inevitably reflects it.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Reecey1987 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:02 pm

claretspice wrote:I'm not sure the price WBA paid for Jay is all that relevant. 12 months ago, he was at a club that saw him as surplus to requirements. He also had serious question marks over his career, and at the very least there was a doubt about his ability to continue to perform at Premier League level, given his injuries. So any club bidding for him factored those things in.

I'm not sure his performances this season suggest he's the player he was before his injuries, but they do suggest that he is both over his injuries, and still has the quality to perform at Premier League level (albeit in a slightly different role to the one he once played with such distinction for Southampton when he got his England cap). And he's at a club that is desperate to keep him. That makes the circumstances very different to 12 months ago and the price tag WBA want inevitably reflects it.
i think west brom have already given up hope of keeping the player . Whats important for them now is to get as much as they can for him which there well within there rights to do

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Reecey1987 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:22 pm

Few rumours going round on twitter that jay rod is set to sign for 20 million

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Goobs » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:25 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:Few rumours going round on twitter that jay rod is set to sign for 20 million
More money than I would have liked but still think he will be a good signing for us.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Reecey1987 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:57 pm

I know its not gospel but we shall wait and see
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:54 pm


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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:19 am

Reecey1987 wrote:I know its not gospel but we shall wait and see
Wit?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:22 am

He's got a lot of followers, but he follows less than 70 people and has made about a 1000 tweets.

Not as bad as some who claim to know what is going on to be sure, but also not anything to think he's a good source.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by karatekid » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:41 am

20 million is a lot. We definitely need to expand our overseas scouting network. How much was defour? 8.5 million? What could you get for £20m?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by jlup1980 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:40 am

karatekid wrote:20 million is a lot. We definitely need to expand our overseas scouting network. How much was defour? 8.5 million? What could you get for £20m?
Although i agree with you i don't think we can compare the jay rod and defour fees. Defour was cheap because he was a risk. His quality was never in doubt but he arrived with a dubious injury record and a question mark over whether he'd be able to cope with the demands of the PL.

There are bargains to be found in Europe but they tend to come with the risk that they're unknown quantities. Jay Rod is wanted by his club, is well under contract and has a PL history. He's bound to cost 20m in the current market. I'm not saying he's worth that but this is where we are. The best we can hope for is probably 15m plus add ons.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Murger » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:49 pm

Don't know if it's reliable

Image

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by dsr » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:53 pm

Murger wrote:Don't know if it's reliable
No more or less reliable than it was 6 posts ago! ;)
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by JTClaret » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:55 pm

Do you not find it strange how some fans always talk about resale value, yet go on about the lack of loyalty when they leave :?
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Murger » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:58 pm

dsr wrote:No more or less reliable than it was 6 posts ago! ;)
Must admit, I just scrolled to the bottom.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by piston broke » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:16 pm

Is Peter HardingDM from the Daily Mail or Mirror?

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by karatekid » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:41 pm

jlup1980 wrote:Although i agree with you i don't think we can compare the jay rod and defour fees. Defour was cheap because he was a risk. His quality was never in doubt but he arrived with a dubious injury record and a question mark over whether he'd be able to cope with the demands of the PL.

There are bargains to be found in Europe but they tend to come with the risk that they're unknown quantities. Jay Rod is wanted by his club, is well under contract and has a PL history. He's bound to cost 20m in the current market. I'm not saying he's worth that but this is where we are. The best we can hope for is probably 15m plus add ons.
Is the £47 million man utd have spent on Fred a risk because he has never played in the EPL.? We need an 'elite' striker and I'm afraid jrod isn't it. Put the 20 million towards one that is. IMO. Goals win games and we are short of them.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Spijed » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:43 pm

karatekid wrote:Goals win games and we are short of them.
To be fair though, we've re-written the rules regarding scoring goals.

Develop a defence as good as ours and you don't need to score that many goals.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by karatekid » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:46 pm

Spijed wrote:To be fair though, we've re-written the rules regarding scoring goals.

Develop a defence as good as ours and you don't need to score that many goals.
Doesn't exactly make for entertaining football though.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Goobs » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:54 pm

karatekid wrote:Doesn't exactly make for entertaining football though.
Rather finish top 7 and be "boring".

If that's what you think last season was then fair enough, but for me it was wonderful.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by CFS » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:51 pm

karatekid wrote:Is the £47 million man utd have spent on Fred a risk because he has never played in the EPL.? We need an 'elite' striker and I'm afraid jrod isn't it. Put the 20 million towards one that is. IMO. Goals win games and we are short of them.
We don't need and will never get an elite striker. There's a reason were celebrating playing Aberdeen if elite striker was the case our full team are not good enough.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by karatekid » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:31 pm

To say we will never get an elite striker is a bit defeatist. I'm not talking about signing aguero etc. at this stage but surely we have to be looking at better than jrod. TBH I'd rather have benteke or rondon. SD would give CB his confidence back and he would score a hatful for us.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Steve1956 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:55 pm

karatekid wrote:To say we will never get an elite striker is a bit defeatist. I'm not talking about signing aguero etc. at this stage but surely we have to be looking at better than jrod. TBH I'd rather have benteke or rondon. SD would give CB his confidence back and he would score a hatful for us.
Benteke,please no! :roll:

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by andyh » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Should we remove him from the ledgends boards if he comes back? I always thought it was a bad idea having him and Tripps up there.

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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by Vino blanco » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:19 pm

He's coming home, he's coming home, Jayrod's coming home!! At least I hope so.
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by CFS » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:21 pm

karatekid wrote:To say we will never get an elite striker is a bit defeatist. I'm not talking about signing aguero etc. at this stage but surely we have to be looking at better than jrod. TBH I'd rather have benteke or rondon. SD would give CB his confidence back and he would score a hatful for us.
The same rondon who jay outscored last season playing fewer games and out the wing?
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by CFS » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Vino blanco wrote:He's coming home, he's coming home, Jayrod's coming home!! At least I hope so.
Me too.

MACCA
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Re: ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Post by MACCA » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:34 pm

CFS wrote:Me too.
Me three

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