KRBFC wrote:Why is Bobby Reid a one season wonder? and where have you read Celtic are open to selling Armstrong? I think we missed the boat on Armstrong when we refused to pay the extra £200,000 transfer fee.

I described Reid as a one season wonder, at this point in his career, because that is how I see him. It certainly doesn't mean that I don't rate him highly. Prior to last season he was generally played as a central midfielder where his slight stature wasn't ideal for the combative role, although his physique has improved noticeably. During that time he didn't exhibit any signs of developing into a very good premier league player.

Last season he was shifted up the pitch into a forward role and the new position allowed him to play to his strengths, pace and trickery. That resulting in him registering his first wonder season and now that he has found a position that obviously suits his playing style it could be the first of many wonder years.

Prior to the window opening I posted my own pick list of desirable transfers. Armstrong and Reid where two of the five primary names that I put on it. Which is why I've been on the lookout for any transfer gossip relating to them as an idle source of interest.

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... 87#p714187" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I noticed this

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/ ... al-palace/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and a lot of posts on the click bait sites.

Obviously, all of these articles should be taken with a large bucket full of salt. However, when you consider the will he won't he sign a new contract debacle of last season, the short one year contract that he eventually signed, his reduced playing time this season as Rogic and McGregor have been favoured after his return from surgery and the prospect of a repeat debacle regarding his contract I don't think a potential move away is entirely unrealistic.

I think that adding Armstrong and Reid to the squad could give us a very well rounded set of options for our slightly unorthodox no 10 position. Armstrong can also play as a central midfielder and Reid could operate as a secondary striker. Having players that can perform in multiple positions would further increase our strength in depth across the board and give them more possible opportunities for playing time.

To use a very simple and wholly unscientific appraisal system I see Hendrick as a 70 in central midfield and a 30 as an attacking midfielder (although he has improved in his new role and I expect him to improve further), Reid would give us 30 in central midfield and 70 as an attacking midfielder and Armstrong would be 50/50. If we had these three in our squad we could fine tune our 4-4-1-1 and field different players to emphasise midfield or attack. Barnes in the 4-4-2 would represent 10/90.

The three players also have different playing styles, Armstrong is very physical, Reid is pacey and tricky while Hendrick offers a bit of both. This would give us a variety options to unlock different defences. If we could avoid any bidding wars I suspect we could get Armstrong and Reid for the same amount that we might end up paying for Jay Rod. The only real downside is that neither of them have any premier league experience and Jay has that in abundance.

I would be very happy with Jay, but even happier with these two. We have enough dedicated strikers and unless we find new homes for one or two of them we don't really have any room in our small squad for another one.

I mostly agree with Long Time Lurker's post #93.

From what I saw of the two players on TV, Dawson is a good Premier League defender, versatile and pops up with goals from dead balls (something we could do with). He would go straight into the team. I was impressed with Jay despite playing in odd positions in a poor side. He worked hard, looked neat and tidy and defended well, although he seemed to tire late in games. I reckon he offers something different for us.

I too don't think we should be spending too much over the £25 million for these two, and see some swap, such as Walters or Wells (although I'd like to see more of him) or perhaps even Vokes as good options.

From Simon Stone at BBC:

Burnley are going to need to come up with more money if they are going to get former striker Jay Rodriguez and defender Craig Dawson out of West Brom.

The Clarets had a joint £25m bid for the pair rejected by the Baggies yesterday.

It is understood West Brom value both of them at a combined sum in excess of £40m.

Burnley's current record signing is Chris Wood, who they signed from Leeds for £15m in 2017.

Next bid will be 25 million and one penny.

claretburns wrote:From Simon Stone at BBC:

Burnley are going to need to come up with more money if they are going to get former striker Jay Rodriguez and defender Craig Dawson out of West Brom.

The Clarets had a joint £25m bid for the pair rejected by the Baggies yesterday.

It is understood West Brom value both of them at a combined sum in excess of £40m.

Burnley's current record signing is Chris Wood, who they signed from Leeds for £15m in 2017.

Sky Sports News said this morning that they want £12million for Dawson and £20million for Rodriguez.

The £40million story came from a bloke who writes for the Express / Star who is a West Brom fan and I think it's more opinion based than factual.

See link -

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/fo ... brom-pair/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

12 mill and 20 mill respectively isn't far away from what they are worth. 32 isn't that far from 25. Meet in the middle or throw in a player plus in the deal and it should be achievable.

Well 12mil for Dawson sounds about right to me but with negotiators things can change.

Imagine if someone bid 25 million for Barnes and Mee.

ClaretAndJew wrote:Imagine if someone bid 25 million for Barnes and Mee.

Imagine if West Brom finished 7th

This is WBA who went from having £40m in the bank plus a years premier league money, to not being able to pay the wages within 12 months.

They will want to get some earners off the wage bill now they are in the Championship and income will reduce, with this in mind, I don't blame them for trying to hold out for £40m or as near as they can get but at some point they need to get cash in and wages down.

We should offer them £28m and Wells as a take it or leave it. Get them signed or move on.......... we play our first European game in 7 weeks

Barry_Chuckle wrote:This is WBA who went from having £40m in the bank plus a years premier league money, to not being able to pay the wages within 12 months.

They will want to get some earners off the wage bill now they are in the Championship and income will reduce, with this in mind, I don't blame them for trying to hold out for £40m or as near as they can get but at some point they need to get cash in and wages down.

We should offer them £28m and Wells as a take it or leave it. Get them signed or move on.......... we play our first European game in 7 weeks

Theoretically, they should be in a much better position financially for the coming season. All their players had a 50% pay reduction clause in their contracts in the event of relegation. So wage bill is already slashed, it's just a case of whose happy to stay on half the money and who wants to go.

I've got a feeling we need a bit of player power to force the issue a bit with this one.

UpTheClaretsFCBK wrote:All their players had a 50% pay reduction clause in their contracts in the event of relegation. So wage bill is already slashed

If this is true then fair enough, however, I found myself speaking to a Baggie in Stratford-Upon-Avon Monday evening, he was telling me some had a clause of 50% others had no clause at all depending on when they signed for the club.

I totally agree that players can make this happen if they want it to.

With this 25m offer being tabled I
I personal thought it was a reasonable offer
We should hit the next level at a 28m offer then that's it West Brom
Will no we don't over pay and wiĺ be desperate to off load
It could turn out to be we only end up with Dawson as if Rondon goes they will want to keep one of the two
We need to get another offer in them see what it brings no messing about this time if they do just move on

Long Time Lurker wrote:I described Reid as a one season wonder, at this point in his career, because that is how I see him. It certainly doesn't mean that I don't rate him highly. Prior to last season he was generally played as a central midfielder where his slight stature wasn't ideal for the combative role, although his physique has improved noticeably. During that time he didn't exhibit any signs of developing into a very good premier league player.

Last season he was shifted up the pitch into a forward role and the new position allowed him to play to his strengths, pace and trickery. That resulting in him registering his first wonder season and now that he has found a position that obviously suits his playing style it could be the first of many wonder years.

Prior to the window opening I posted my own pick list of desirable transfers. Armstrong and Reid where two of the five primary names that I put on it. Which is why I've been on the lookout for any transfer gossip relating to them as an idle source of interest.

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... 87#p714187" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I noticed this

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/ ... al-palace/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and a lot of posts on the click bait sites.

Obviously, all of these articles should be taken with a large bucket full of salt. However, when you consider the will he won't he sign a new contract debacle of last season, the short one year contract that he eventually signed, his reduced playing time this season as Rogic and McGregor have been favoured after his return from surgery and the prospect of a repeat debacle regarding his contract I don't think a potential move away is entirely unrealistic.

I think that adding Armstrong and Reid to the squad could give us a very well rounded set of options for our slightly unorthodox no 10 position. Armstrong can also play as a central midfielder and Reid could operate as a secondary striker. Having players that can perform in multiple positions would further increase our strength in depth across the board and give them more possible opportunities for playing time.

To use a very simple and wholly unscientific appraisal system I see Hendrick as a 70 in central midfield and a 30 as an attacking midfielder (although he has improved in his new role and I expect him to improve further), Reid would give us 30 in central midfield and 70 as an attacking midfielder and Armstrong would be 50/50. If we had these three in our squad we could fine tune our 4-4-1-1 and field different players to emphasise midfield or attack. Barnes in the 4-4-2 would represent 10/90.

The three players also have different playing styles, Armstrong is very physical, Reid is pacey and tricky while Hendrick offers a bit of both. This would give us a variety options to unlock different defences. If we could avoid any bidding wars I suspect we could get Armstrong and Reid for the same amount that we might end up paying for Jay Rod. The only real downside is that neither of them have any premier league experience and Jay has that in abundance.

I would be very happy with Jay, but even happier with these two. We have enough dedicated strikers and unless we find new homes for one or two of them we don't really have any room in our small squad for another one.

maybe we have different definitions for the phrase ''one season wonder'', to me that means he's had 1 great year in his career and he's likely to never re-produce form close to that level again. So the last thing i'd want is to sign a ''one season wonder''

As Frank Fritz of the American Pickers says, that's a bundle!

£30million + either or both of Wells and Walters final offer

UpTheClaretsFCBK wrote:£30million + either or both of Wells and Walters final offer

Wells and Walters combined adds about £400,000, I'd throw in Bardsley to make it closer to £500,000 in player value

KRBFC wrote:Wells and Walters combined adds about £400,000, I'd throw in Bardsley to make it closer to £500,000 in player value

Response: We’ll just take the £30million

I presume that if we get Dawson then Mee is off.

He'll want first team football, not sitting on the bench.

Spijed wrote:I presume that if we get Dawson then Mee is off.

He'll want first team football, not sitting on the bench.

If we take the cups half seriously we'll be playing 50+ games this season. More than enough to keep 23-25 players happy with enough first team playing time.

Spijed wrote:I presume that if we get Dawson then Mee is off.

He'll want first team football, not sitting on the bench.

We really need to stop worrying about whether players will be happy being on the bench or not. They should all think they should be in the starting XI. If they don't get selected then they'll have to deal with it - the manager can only choose eleven players.

We need to strengthen properly which means buying players who would strengthen the starting XI and not obvious bench warmers. It's then up to the manager who he selects rather than having an obvious pecking order.

Can you really see us keeping both Heaton and Pope in that respect?

I think the posts associated with these transfers have highlighted something important the club needs to address. We have made fantastic progress in respect to some of the clubs physical infrastructure, but if we really want to increase our pulling power in relation to new players we need to look at developing our bench.

Obviously, we need to exercise a little restraint and not get carried away. So I'm not suggesting that we replace all the seats with E-Z boy recliners, pop up gaming consoles, massage functions and well stocked complimentary Twix drawers. We aren't in the top 6 yet. However, I think we could introduce a classy waiter service for refreshing beverages (one drink per game per player and then its get your own) and maybe some foot stools.

If we can offer players a quality bench sitting experience we could really up our draw factor and give ourselves an easier time when we are targeting players to sign up. We have to make our bench a focal point of attraction, a destination that players can truly aspire to.

Absolutely agree with Jakubs Tash . You need a strong starting 11 and game changers on the bench. A top 7 side can guarantee no one a start in the PL

Its where the Champions League Final was won-look at Liverpool's bench then Real's. Yes Bale was a sub and won them the game on his own virtually

Really surprised Jay Rod hasn't been announced yet.

He even joined a local Golf club at the weekend.

£25m for the pair is a very fair offer.

£30m is a price that should make us take a solid step back to look again at all the financial angles. Thats a lot of money to write off over the course of 3 years or so, without including wages, signing on fees and agent payments. Considering the stage they are at in their careers we can't realistically expect to recoup it all if they move on and if they stay their values will certainly fall over time.

£35m is a walk away and look elsewhere price.

WBA are rumoured to have bid £7m for Reid with Bristol holding out for £10m. Could be utter nonsense, but those figures don't seem to be wide of the mark.When you consider that we could possibly get Bryan and Reid for around £15m, players with development potential and scope for financial growth, looking at other options could be a wise response to a rejection.

Would Jay and Dawson contribute twice as much as these players in respect to their initial transfer costs?

What would the overall value of both pairs equate to over the long term, potential net loss vs potential net gain?

It's not like any other clubs are beating down the door of WBA to sign Jay and Dawson and I get the impression that despite their protestations WBA aren't wallowing in a swimming pool of cash - especially when you factor in the money that they might envision spending during this window to bring in their own targets.

Quality players both, but £20m for Jay is too much when we already have five strikers on the books. £15m for Dawson is a lot for a backup centre back if Mee is stopping and as a right back I'm not sure he fits. We seem to favor players that are more in the mould of attacking full backs, which Dawson isn't. Bardsley did a respectable job when he came in, but we looked a lot more impotent on the attacking front without the forward runs and link up play of Lowton.

Quickenthetempo wrote:Really surprised Jay Rod hasn't been announced yet.

He even joined a local Golf club at the weekend.

Yep, I saw him 3put on the 16th at Great Marsden municipal. He looked well ragged off.

I think £25 million should be more than sufficient to prise these 2 guys away from WBA. We don't want to end up like a whole host of other clubs paying well over the top, only to end up with serious debt and back in the Championship. Don't forget there's two lots of wages to finance on top of these inflated transfer fees.

Jay worth £20 mill when Rondon only 16 mill?
We might not get him but I'd have thought rondon better than jayrod, particular''ly at those rates.

Wba can then try and pick off one of villa's strikers.

[quote="timshorts"]Jay worth £20 mill when Rondon only 16 mill?
We might not get him but I'd have thought rondon better than jayrod, particular''ly at those rates.

Think i'm right in thinking that Rondon may have a release clause in his contract. I personally think JRod would be an ideal player for us but at the right price.

Longsider wrote:Yep, I saw him 3put on the 16th at Great Marsden municipal. He looked well ragged off.

Nearly. A bit nearer the Turf though and he did play it this weekend.

warksclaret wrote:Its where the Champions League Final was won-look at Liverpool's bench then Real's. Yes Bale was a sub and won them the game on his own virtually

That's not something we can aspire to though. Big clubs can afford to have expensive players sat on the bench, we can't.

People are hopelessly getting carried away by thinking we can do that because we finished 7th this season.

Spijed wrote:Can you really see us keeping both Heaton and Pope in that respect?

Good point. But slightly different scenario as you can only select one keeper and this 'issue' has evolved from within somewhat.

If Dawson signed, for example, he would be vying for three positions (two at centre half and also right back). Same for Jay Rod; he could play 9, 10 or wide in a narrow 3 if required. The point being most outfield players have more chance of getting games than goalkeepers.

Jakubs Tash wrote:Good point. But slightly different scenario as you can only select one keeper and this 'issue' has evolved from within somewhat.

If Dawson signed, for example, he would be vying for three positions (two at centre half and also right back). Same for Jay Rod; he could play 9, 10 or wide in a narrow 3 if required. The point being most outfield players have more chance of getting games than goalkeepers.

In reality, Dyche likes a settled defence so I can't see how 3 into 2 will go. Further upfield that's a different matter as you need game changers to affect the result, but very rarely do sides change defenders unless through injury. Leicester city's success was built on Huth & Morgan, and this season ours was built on Tarkowski & Mee.

If Mee is staying I can't see where Dawson fits in as Mee will play alongside Tarkowski for the season. The argument about getting another player as a fourth defender, alongside Kevin Long is a valid one, but not one who's played many games for West Brom at this level. We may rotate in the cups but not in the league so I would expect to get an understudy, like Tarkowski was when Keane was here - ready to play once one of the others leaves.

But I simply cannot see Dyche rotating the defence to keep all three happy, nor would I expect a potential first team player to be happy to bide their time on the bench. A bit like Heaton or Pope in that situation.

timshorts wrote:Jay worth £20 mill when Rondon only 16 mill?
We might not get him but I'd have thought rondon better than jayrod, particular''ly at those rates.

Wba can then try and pick off one of villa's strikers.

Rondon has a release clause of £16 million.

We absolutely need another centre half. And I'd be chuffed if next season we have Mee, Tarkowski, Dawson and Long. There will be plenty of opportunities to play next season.

Spijed wrote:In reality, Dyche likes a settled defence so I can't see how 3 into 2 will go. Further upfield that's a different matter as you need game changers to affect the result, but very rarely do sides change defenders unless through injury. Leicester city's success was built on Huth & Morgan, and this season ours was built on Tarkowski & Mee.

If Mee is staying I can't see where Dawson fits in as Mee will play alongside Tarkowski for the season. The argument about getting another player as a fourth defender, alongside Kevin Long is a valid one, but not one who's played many games for West Brom at this level. We may rotate in the cups but not in the league so I would expect to get an understudy, like Tarkowski was when Keane was here - ready to play once one of the others leaves.

But I simply cannot see Dyche rotating the defence to keep all three happy, nor would I expect a potential first team player to be happy to bide their time on the bench. A bit like Heaton or Pope in that situation.

How many games did Tarks and Mee miss between them last season? We need a third CB, and a quality one as history shows someone is going to get injured or suspended. Long is a solid back up, but he isn't a starter, Dawson is, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will. It also gives us the option to bring a third CB on if we are hanging on to a result.

Spijed wrote:I presume that if we get Dawson then Mee is off.

He'll want first team football, not sitting on the bench.

I think the fact that we're chasing a well proven, experienced CB who will definitely be playing if he comes, means that Mee is definitely off (unfortunately).

Dark Cloud wrote:I think the fact that we're chasing a well proven, experienced CB who will definitely be playing if he comes, means that Mee is definitely off (unfortunately).

I think you're wrong. We were after Dawson a year ago were we not?

Claretmatt4 wrote:I think you're wrong. We were after Dawson a year ago were we not?

But wasn't that because Tarkowski was unproven at this level?

No-one really knew how good he would turn out to be.

Claretmatt4 wrote:I think you're wrong. We were after Dawson a year ago were we not?

As I understand it, it was several years ago. I've seen 4 mentioned and as a result West Brom offered him an improved deal.

How have they rejected the bid? I thought we were told on here weeks ago Jay Rod had already signed?

KRBFC wrote:How have they rejected the bid? I thought we were told on here weeks ago Jay Rod had already signed?

No big deal - he was right that we were definitely in for him.

taio wrote:No big deal - he was right that we were definitely in for him.

There is a difference between being linked and actually signing which certain user members kept reporting

Reecey1987 wrote:There is a difference between being linked and actually signing which certain user members kept reporting

Yep. Still no big deal.

West Brom are willing to sell and have set the price at £35 million for the pair.

West Brom haven’t changed and I don’t know why we are wasting time trying to buy their players , they still want over market value for players who got them relegated.

joey13 wrote:West Brom haven’t changed and I don’t know why we are wasting time trying to buy their players , they still want over market value for players who got them relegated.

We paid up to £28.5m for Hendrick and Wood with only presumption they could play at PL level (which they both definitely can).

We will be expecting to pay more than £25m. I’d say £32/33m is fair

dermotdermot wrote:West Brom are willing to sell and have set the price at £35 million for the pair.

Too much.

how much for Dawson, or isn't he allowed to go away on his own?

[quote="Long Time Lurker"]£25m for the pair is a very fair offer.

£30m is a price that should make us take a solid step back to look again at all the financial angles. Thats a lot of money to write off over the course of 3 years or so, without including wages, signing on fees and agent payments. Considering the stage they are at in their careers we can't realistically expect to recoup it all if they move on and if they stay their values will certainly fall over time.

£35m is a walk away and look elsewhere price.

If they both sign at 35m and we stay in the prem for the length of their contracts,then resale value will be of no consequence.
We need players who can hit the ground running, as well as players who are young and hungry to do well.
The latter will be the money makers through resale value.