384 million extra a week for NHS after Brexit.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:You have always been a follower of Farage?
Or is this the 1st time your acknowledging him as a human.

What the hell is this post?

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Can we not just 're hash all the old Brexit threads and stop arguing.
Even I'm bored of this nonsense now

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Oh he's human.

The clue is in his opportunism and his lies. Perfect human traits sadly.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:05 pm

Damo wrote:Can we not just 're hash all the old Brexit threads and stop arguing.
Even I'm bored of this nonsense now

no one's forcing you to participate.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:08 pm

: IMG_20180617_180725.jpg (77.67 KiB) Viewed 1945 times

Imploding Turtle wrote:no one's forcing you to participate.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:08 pm

Lots of Brexiteers are "bored" now.

I would be as well if my argument and predictions two years ago started to look as reliable as the Venkys pledge to sign Ronaldinho.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:08 pm

Inchy wrote:So the times article states May has a plan to train more nurses. How?

She’s removed bursaries and nurses now pay 9k a year to train

Despite that, there's still more applications than positions, I don't believe it was the correct decision, my view however doesn't alter the facts.
Perhaps fees could be scrapped after X number of years service?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:08 pm

I do agree the Brexit topic has been done to death on here but in fairness I felt this was worthy of a thread. First thing been said on it (Brexit) worth saying for quite some time

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:12 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Lots of Brexiteers are "bored" now.

I would be as well if my argument and predictions two years ago started to look as reliable as the Venkys pledge to sign Ronaldinho.

They signed Ronaldinho. The Gateway Pundit even reported on it, it's just the Lamestream Media who don't report on it in an effort to hide the truth.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:13 pm

Then why not start the topic without mentioning Brexit?

Its really, really, really obvious that its tax rises and borrowing in an attempt to stop the NHS disintegrating.

The sheer fact that the Tories are willing to acknowledge tax rises shows just how bad things must be.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:15 pm

I haven’t read all 150 comments since I posted this morning but it seems like Remainers just cannot bring themselves to accept that some of this funding is as a result of Boris and his red bus. I am not sure why it matters so much not to accept this, but it seems to.

I have sat with politicians over many of the last 30 years and presented solid arguments for rises in health funding, most of which were rebuffed. Why now? Why so much? Yes, there is a huge case of need, but there has been in the past too. I recall huge waiting lists, patients dying on trolleys, buildings falling to bits. Why now?

The NHS would have got some cash, but the political nature of the red bus has necessitated it exceeding £350m per week. If she didn’t do it, she would have had it thrown at her for years. I accept Corbyn has put some pressure on her too.

The other thing that gets misunderstood is the funding of these things. The Budget (which this will feed into) is a mixture of hundreds of debits and credits. It is perfectly reasonable to claim that SOME of this NHS funding can be offset by us PROBABLY saving on leaving the EU depending on the exit deal (e.g. a minimum of £100m per week but maybe more if we have no deal) but that IF tax revenues go down due to leaving the EU this would THEN need a future solution. The latter though will be just one of many economic headwinds to tackle (e.g. the world economy may have a slowdown). It will be dealt with IF it happens (they will have a contingency plan for it, because the Treasury believe the headwind will happen).

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:15 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Lots of Brexiteers are "bored" now.

I would be as well if my argument and predictions two years ago started to look as reliable as the Venkys pledge to sign Ronaldinho.

Not you though pal.
Still got Brexit fever.
Hard core anti-brexiteer extremist.
I like your passion for banging your head against brick walls

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:22 pm

So essentially, despite all the evidence and thirty years of chatting to the public (in his golf club in case we forget), Crosspool still believes in a Brexit dividend, and a bigger one in the event of a no-deal.

Mental, absolutely mental levels of believing in Brexit on a religous level I've not seen since I visited the Mormons in Salt Lake City.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Couple of points Damo

- stop lying about stuff and I won't correct you on it
- Me and claretandy reached a consensus on how to leave the EU about a week ago on a different thread

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:29 pm

Caballo wrote:Despite that, there's still more applications than positions, I don't believe it was the correct decision, my view however doesn't alter the facts.
Perhaps fees could be scrapped after X number of years service?

The government dictate the number of places, which have been reduced amazingly.

Personally I would make it free but tie people into x amount of years of service to pay it back. I didn’t pay a penny to train yet I could have qualified and gone straight to Aus or Canada. That doesn’t happen in any other business.

What is happening now is trusts are offering apprenticeships where you don’t pay to train and you get a wage during your training. You work full time and go to uni once a week. Basically the old and better way. After 3/4 years you are a nurse. All the government has done is shift the cost of training from central government to individual trusts, removing money from direct patient care. Brilliant!

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:29 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Couple of points Damo

- stop lying about stuff and I won't correct you on it
- Me and claretandy reached a consensus on how to leave the EU about a week ago on a different thread

Wait... what?
Haha. What have I lied about?
Sorry, I didn't follow yours and claretandy's exchange.
It's hard to be bothered to keep up after 2 years of the same comments over and over again

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:31 pm

More of a general moan about people lying Damo, and a general "it is possible to sort this out" as well

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:36 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:More of a general moan about people lying Damo, and a general "it is possible to sort this out" as well

Ah right. Glad you backtracked on that.
I can settle down for the game now and leave this thread to the enthusiasts.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:57 pm

I use the term "clarification", as I don't think anyone is lying about Brexit on here.

I'm amazed at just how many people in East lancs think its going to solve all the problems though.

I'm even more amazed that despite a mountain of evidence that apparently means Brexit will be a success, so little of it has found its way into discussions like this, the mainstream media and all politicians.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:23 pm

As usual if this extra money does become available which is a big if, it will be swallowed up by giving top people top pay rises and none of it will reach where it should reach which is the exact reason the NHS has ended up where it has, the first thing every government does as soon as it comes to power is throw x million pounds in to the NHS but it just gets swallowed up in pay rises for people who already get too much money for what they do, the only way this is going to change imo is to sack the NHS and start all over again and pay those that deserve it and get rid of the ones that are there simply for a social life. Just massive amounts of wastage for so many doing absolutely sweet fa.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:54 pm

Seriously. You all need to shut the f*&k up on Brexit. Its's happening. The majority voted for it. Leave it to the elected few to sort out.

For god's sake.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:36 pm

bf2k wrote:Seriously. You all need to shut the f*&k up on Brexit. Its's happening. The majority voted for it. Leave it to the elected few to sort out.

For god's sake.

Well, that's me told.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:39 pm

bf2k wrote:Seriously. You all need to shut the f*&k up on Brexit. Its's happening. The majority voted for it. Leave it to the elected few to sort out.

For god's sake.

Oooh, get you.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:50 pm

I know he'll seem a bit expertish to some but some interesting commentary and stats from the FT Economics Editor on twitter https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/ ... 1376512001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most interesting I thought was this graph

and this stat:

THE ONLY RELEVANT FIGURE IS THE ANNUAL PERCENTAGE REAL INCREASE.

2018-2023. = 3.4%
1948-2018. = 3.7%

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:01 pm

It's certainly hypocrisy at its finest for the Conservatives to accuse Labour of being a tax-and-spend party when that's exactly what they'll be doing to fund the NHS.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:03 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Oooh, get you.

Yes Atheist get me, someone who's accepted the result and moving on.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:09 pm

Spijed wrote:It's certainly hypocrisy at its finest for the Conservatives to accuse Labour of being a tax-and-spend party when that's exactly what they'll be doing to fund the NHS.

It's certainly hypocrisy at its finest for Labour voters to criticise the Conservatives of a tax-and-spend policy on funding the NHS, when that's exactly what they'd be voting for, if Labour did it.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:11 pm

bf2k wrote:Yes Atheist get me, someone who's accepted the result and moving on.

I've accepted the result too. But i'm not ready to let that result be turned into a hard brexit. You might be, but i think the will of the people should be obeyed, and the will of the people was for the softest of Brexits, not this extremist dystopia version of brexit that the most rabid Leave voters want, as if the result was a 90% Leave vote.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:12 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:It's certainly hypocrisy at its finest for Labour voters to criticise the Conservatives of a tax-and-spend policy on funding the NHS, when that's exactly what they'd be voting for, if Labour did it.

Who's doing that?

I'm impressed with how **** you are at forming an argument, or interpreting arguments from others.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:14 pm

Reading this thread it's apparent there's 2 fundamental differences between Remoaners and Brexiteers.

1. Remoaners KNOW that leaving the EU will be bad.

Brexiteers are quietly confident it'll be good.

2. Brexiteers KNOW that when we stop paying our EU membership fees, the country will be billions better off.

Remoaners can't bring themselves round to agreeing.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:17 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:2. Brexiteers KNOW that when we stop paying our EU membership fees, the country will be billions better off.

How?

All we'll end up doing is paying out exactly the same subsides that farmers and everyone else received from the EU.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:19 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Who's doing that?

I'm impressed with how **** you are at forming an argument, or interpreting arguments from others.

I'm impressed by the fact that, as a weapons grade idiot, you've managed to register a user name, log on, form a coherent sentence and post it.

For an utter clown like you. Astoundingly impressive.

For anyone else. Average.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:20 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I've accepted the result too. But i'm not ready to let that result be turned into a hard brexit. You might be, but i think the will of the people should be obeyed, and the will of the people was for the softest of Brexits, not this extremist dystopia version of brexit that the most rabid Leave voters want, as if the result was a 90% Leave vote.

No, the vote was to leave. Not be in a half baked, 50/50 leave. The question was quite clear. Leave or stay. Leave was to leave everything. Common Market, Free Movement, EU "laws".

The sooner our country & parliament pull together and realise this the better.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:22 pm

Spijed wrote:How?

All we'll end up doing is paying out exactly the same subsides that farmers and everyone else received from the EU.

"From the EU"

The UK is a net contributor to the EU.

Have yourself a little think.

And try and blend that thought with the second part of point 2.

Hope that helps.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:23 pm

bf2k wrote:No, the vote was to leave. Not be in a half baked, 50/50 leave. The question was quite clear. Leave or stay. Leave was to leave everything. Common Market, Free Movement, EU "laws".

The sooner our country & parliament pull together and realise this the better.

And the campaign to leave was pretty clear too, that we could have all the benefits of staying if we vote to leave. The Leave campaign didn't win on a campaign of hard brexit, but now they're trying to pretend they did. They can get ******.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:25 pm

bf2k wrote:No, the vote was to leave. Not be in a half baked, 50/50 leave. The question was quite clear. Leave or stay. Leave was to leave everything. Common Market, Free Movement, EU "laws".

The sooner our country & parliament pull together and realise this the better.

Can you point out the bit of the ballot paper that said all of the above please.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:27 pm

bf2k wrote:No, the vote was to leave. Not be in a half baked, 50/50 leave. The question was quite clear. Leave or stay. Leave was to leave everything. Common Market, Free Movement, EU "laws".

The sooner our country & parliament pull together and realise this the better.

A fine straight forward post. And it's an opinion expressed week after week on the BBCs Question Time. Often by people who voted Remain. There's a name for people like you and them. Democrats.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:29 pm

martin_p wrote:Can you point out the bit of the ballot paper that said all of the above please.

Why did you not contact the Electoral Commission PRIOR to the referendum, regarding the size of the ballot paper. Instead of whining on like the sore loser that you are AFTER it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:32 pm

Reading this thread it's apparent there's 2 fundamental differences between Remoaners and Brexiteers.

1. Remoaners KNOW that leaving the EU will be bad.

Brexiteers are quietly confident it'll be good.

2. Brexiteers KNOW that when we stop paying our EU membership fees, the country will be billions better off.

Remoaners can't bring themselves round to agreeing.

If only that was actually true, then no one would have a problem.

Nice to see a new member of team unicorn btw.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:34 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:If only that was actually true, then no one would have a problem.

Nice to see a new member of team unicorn btw.

Saying it's not true doesn't make it go away.

Nice to see the stalwarts of team doom n gloom are going down fighting btw.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:37 pm

Really, really, really, really believing it doesn't make it true either Ringo.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:37 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Why did you not contact the Electoral Commission PRIOR to the referendum, regarding the size of the ballot paper. Instead of whining on like the sore loser that you are AFTER it.

Lol. We did complain that it was a stupid referendum long before the vote happened. It was always going to be a stupid referendum because no one knew what both options meant. Everyone knew what remain meant, it meant we remain. But no one knew what Leave meant because the campaign to Leave never knew what the **** it wanted. Did it want to cut all trade and customs ties? Did it want to retain some of them? Did it want to retain all of them? No one knew. But now that leave won people like you are trying to claim a mandate for "Leave at all costs" and that's just not at all what the Leave campaign campaigned on. It's as much a subversion of democracy to run on a campaign of a soft Brexit where we're still in the single market and customs union and then when you win turn around and say "psyche! We're leaving at all costs with none of that which we ran on" as it would be for the government to turn around and say "it was only advisory" after they campaigned on the result being adopted.

Fine, you won, but you won on a certain set of promises and the rest of us are going to hold you to them. You can kick and scream about how undemocratic that is all you like, but tough ****. Don't make promises you have no intention to keep.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:38 pm

Off to bed now after a genuinely heart warming Fathers Day.

Don't fret Remoaners. The sky will still be in its traditional place when you emerge from your cots in the morning. It won't have fallen in.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:40 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Really, really, really, really believing it doesn't make it true either Ringo.

Wrong again. Not "Really, really, really, really believing it"

As said previously. Just quietly confident.....

Sleep well...

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Lol. We did complain that it was a stupid referendum long before the vote happened. It was always going to be a stupid referendum because no one knew what both options meant. Everyone knew what remain meant, it meant we remain. But no one knew what Leave meant because the campaign to Leave never knew what the **** it wanted. Did it want to cut all trade and customs ties? Did it want to retain some of them? Did it want to retain all of them? No one knew. But now that leave won people like you are trying to claim a mandate for "Leave at all costs" and that's just not at all what the Leave campaign campaigned on. It's as much a subversion of democracy to run on a campaign of a soft Brexit where we're still in the single market and customs union and then when you win turn around and say "psyche! We're leaving at all costs with none of that which we ran on" as it would be for the government to turn around and say "it was only advisory" after they campaigned on the result being adopted.

Fine, you won, but you won on a certain set of promises and the rest of us are going to hold you to them. You can kick and scream about how undemocratic that is all you like, but tough ****. Don't make promises you have no intention to keep.

Get to your bunker and think about what you've done.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:48 pm

bf2k wrote:No, the vote was to leave. Not be in a half baked, 50/50 leave. The question was quite clear. Leave or stay. Leave was to leave everything. Common Market, Free Movement, EU "laws".

The sooner our country & parliament pull together and realise this the better.

So just for clarity:
Are there no aspects of our membership / relationship that you wish to retain?
If not - then fine. You're entitled to your opinion, but I doubt that there are many who voted for that.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:50 pm

“The Brexit dividend tosh was expected but treats the public as fools. Sad to see Govt slide to populist arguments rather than evidence on such an important issue. This will make it harder to have a rational debate about the ‘who & how’ of funding & sharing this fairly.”

So says Conservative MP Sara Woolerston today.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:58 pm

Sky News segment, with facts and figures (do not watch if you believe in unicorns)

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1 ... 0039196672" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:59 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Off to bed now after a genuinely heart warming Fathers Day.

Don't fret Remoaners. The sky will still be in its traditional place when you emerge from your cots in the morning. It won't have fallen in.

You don’t have any evidence of that!

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:04 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Why did you not contact the Electoral Commission PRIOR to the referendum, regarding the size of the ballot paper. Instead of whining on like the sore loser that you are AFTER it.

Because it would have been pointless, no one could define what ‘leave’ meant. There were various opinions amongst supporters of Leave ranging from what we know call soft and hard Brexit. But no one knew what it meant, and to claim that it is somehow clear what people were voting for is re-writing history.