Maddison to Leicester

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:35 am

£20million, reportedly.
A good bit of business for Leicester? They are certainly getting their recruitment done early. Three new players already.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:36 am

While unproven at this level and 20m is a lot he is a player I would like is to pursue.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:39 am

boatshed bill wrote:They are certainly getting their recruitment done early. Three new players already.

So what?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:40 am

Spijed wrote:So what?

Ugh

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:51 am

Spijed wrote:So what?

It's not easy to do but it's surprising you can see no benefits of signing players as early as possible especially this summer for us.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:51 am

Would have liked us to be in for him and Evans over Jrod and Dawson but whatever

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:06 am

taio wrote:It's not easy to do but it's surprising you can see no benefits of signing players as early as possible especially this summer for us.

Considering we finished 7th I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference!

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:11 am

Spijed wrote:Considering we finished 7th I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference!

What's that got to do with this summer's transfer window or are you suggesting we don't need any new signings?

In terms of last year Dyche thought it did:

“There were a couple of situations we pushed with and couldn’t finish them off, but I think the main difference in the market was that we were able to do some business pretty early, which is tough to do. We were pleased with that, the group coming together a bit quicker.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:13 am

Don't sign anyone until the last day of the transfer window

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:16 am

taio wrote:What's that got to do with this summer's transfer window or are you suggesting we don't need any new signings?

Obviously we need to keep evolving. But it's the same broken record with some on here that other clubs (those that finished below us btw) seem to get their business done early.

As long as we sign players in time what difference does it make?

If it did make much of a difference then don't you think that clubs who sign a few players before us would be finishing higher in the table?

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:16 am

Spijed wrote:Considering we finished 7th I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference!

I think this is seeing cause and effect, where they are unrelated. You could just as easily state we only finished 7th because we signed players late in the window!

We are going into Europe, we should be getting players in for a full pre-season early.

Endof

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:22 am

Spijed wrote:Obviously we need to keep evolving. But it's the same broken record with some on here that other clubs (those that finished below us btw) seem to get their business done early.

As long as we sign players in time what difference does it make?

If it did make much of a difference then don't you think that clubs who sign a few players before us would be finishing higher in the table?

I think it would be incredibly complacent if the club based their transfer policy on last season's success and finishing above our rivals for next season. Especially as next season could be so different next because of Europa. Early transfers is far from easy so I won't be criticising the club if they can't manage this, but it seems fairly illogical to me to see zero benefit of doing so.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:29 am

taio wrote:I think it would be incredibly complacent if the club based their transfer policy on last season's success and finishing above our rivals for next season. Especially as next season could be so different next because of Europa. Early transfers is far from easy so I won't be criticising the club if they can't manage this, but it seems fairly illogical to me to see zero benefit of doing so.

The point is, regardless of when we sign players, it seems to work. This will be our fourth season out of the last five in the Prem so our transfer policy obviously works.

And for all the criticism of hardly signing anyone the season we went down that now looks like a masterstroke, considering how well we are doing as a club.

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:32 am

Spijed wrote:The point is, regardless of when we sign players, it seems to work. This will be our fourth season out of the last five in the Prem so our transfer policy obviously works.

And for all the criticism of hardly signing anyone the season we went down that now looks like a masterstroke, considering how well we are doing as a club.

What's your view on Dyche referring to early transfers as a positive thing?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:40 am

Spijed wrote:The point is, regardless of when we sign players, it seems to work. This will be our fourth season out of the last five in the Prem so our transfer policy obviously works.

And for all the criticism of hardly signing anyone the season we went down that now looks like a masterstroke, considering how well we are doing as a club.

That’s not really the point though is it
As said it’s not cause and effect - we are not doing well because we are signing players late in the transfer window....we are doing well inspite of this.

Dyche has already said it helps to get the players in earlier.

I am not one of the ones who complains about it all the time and exaggerates the impact of it. Neither do I bang on every time a club make a signing like Madison or Jonny Evans saying that we should be going for them because when I see the amount of money clubs like Leicester have wasted on players I am very happy with our transfer record compared to every club in this league.

Maybe our shrewdness in the transfer market is linked to not being able to get players in as early as others ? If that’s the case then I would accept this is as a worthwhile sacrifice of not making several £20m mistakes like many other clubs outside the top 6 have made.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:41 am

Brilliant business by Leicester. 21 years old and will sell for 3 times what they paid at least in a few years. Sort of business we should be doing.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:46 am

So he’ll sell for at least £72m in a few years time ?

Ok - he was never going to come to us then was he

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:51 am

TVC15 wrote:So he’ll sell for at least £72m in a few years time ?

Yes barring long term injury. Big clubs will come for him, and the market will continue to inflate. He’s young, he’s English, and he plays in a big money position.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:54 am

Ok - if you say so.
Leicester’s recent record in paying £20m plus for players has not been exactly great though has it ?

Marney&Mee · Post by **Marney&Mee** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:56 am

Bad move for Maddison IMHO. Manager will change there, and the new guy might not fancy him

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:03 am

TVC15 wrote:Ok - if you say so.
Leicester’s recent record in paying £20m plus for players has not been exactly great though has it ?

No it hasn’t. Seemed to employ a bizarre policy for a time of paying big fees for older players who were unproven in this league - like Silva and Slimani. Iheanacho I think will turn out a success in the end however.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:24 am

SGr wrote:No it hasn’t. Seemed to employ a bizarre policy for a time of paying big fees for older players who were unproven in this league - like Silva and Slimani. Iheanacho I think will turn out a success in the end however.

Add to those 3 players - Iborra, Ndidi and Musa and Leicester have spent best part of £150m on 6 players - one of which you think might come good.

Sounds like they might need to be selling Maddison for £72m sooner rather than later eh !!

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:46 am

TVC15 wrote:Add to those 3 players - Iborra, Ndidi and Musa and Leicester have spent best part of £150m on 6 players - one of which you think might come good.

Sounds like they might need to be selling Maddison for £72m sooner rather than later eh !!

Ndidi is excellent

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:49 am

TVC15 wrote:Add to those 3 players - Iborra, Ndidi and Musa and Leicester have spent best part of £150m on 6 players - one of which you think might come good.

Sounds like they might need to be selling Maddison for £72m sooner rather than later eh !!

Well Mahrez is leaving for about £60-70m this window. Ndidi is a very good player who they’ll turn a profit on, Iborra was relatively inexpensive. Leicester will not be under pressure to sell Maddison really unless he pushes for a move.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:52 am

No doubt that Ndidi is excellent, and I really like Iborra - Musa is dogshit though

Pretty sure though that Leicester have a much greater spending pot than we do, and billionaire owners.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:55 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:No doubt that Ndidi is excellent, and I really like Iborra - Musa is dogshit though

Pretty sure though that Leicester have a much greater spending pot than we do, and billionaire owners.

Naturally, but their success stories are the younger players bought for relatively low fees. Good recruitment, not money is the reason for that. Maddison is in the same category as Maguire for me. “Big” money, but ultimately a smart investment.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:59 am

Gray hasn't really blossomed there though (yet)

I get where you are coming from, but I guess the point I'm making is twofold

One, we are already doing that, if you look at Pope and Tarkowski

Two, £20 million is a lot for us, and I think you'd want more experience than a good season in the SPL and a good season in the championship

Bfc · Post by **Bfc** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:01 pm

Maddison to Leicester, from where ?. Give us a clue BIll, as I've never heard of him

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Gray hasn't really blossomed there though (yet)

I get where you are coming from, but I guess the point I'm making is twofold

One, we are already doing that, if you look at Pope and Tarkowski

Two, £20 million is a lot for us, and I think you'd want more experience than a good season in the SPL and a good season in the championship

Agree re Gray - but if they sell it’ll be more than the £4.75m release clause they paid. I understand the concept of experience, but we spent £10.5m on Hendrick two years ago, who had no experience in the Prem either.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:16 pm

Bfc wrote:Maddison to Leicester, from where ?. Give us a clue BIll, as I've never heard of him

Norwich. Excellent young player.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:29 pm

SGr wrote:Well Mahrez is leaving for about £60-70m this window. Ndidi is a very good player who they’ll turn a profit on, Iborra was relatively inexpensive. Leicester will not be under pressure to sell Maddison really unless he pushes for a move.

Iborra cost £15m - so not that cheap. He's looked ok.
Ndidi has also played well in spells but he picks up a lot of cards and gives away a hell of a lot of fouls.

Neither player seems to have been much of an improvement on what they had previously.

Silva, Slimani and Ineacheo were all £25m plus....2 of them might come good...Slimani won't.

They did get a massively inflated price for Drinkwater though and will make a huge profit on Mahrez.

Leicester are shopping at a very different supermarket than Burnley though and since they won the league have not performed any better than us. To be fair though their signings are a lot better than the £150m that Everton have wasted.

It`s ok saying we should be in for the likes of Maddison but finishing 7th in the league still does not mean we can compete with teams like Everton, Southampton, Leicester, West Ham and many others. If any of these clubs are interested in the same player as we are then they will blow us out of the water. I'm sure Dyche and his team get wind of what these players are looking for in terms of salary and whether we are in with any chance of competing. It`s far too simple to criticise the club by asking why are we not going for these players - Dyche is not stupid. He has no doubt made tentative enquiries about a whole host of players that we never get linked with but finds out at a very early stage in the process that we have no chance of signing them within our salary structure and budgets.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:06 pm

TVC15 wrote:Iborra cost £15m - so not that cheap. He's looked ok.
Ndidi has also played well in spells but he picks up a lot of cards and gives away a hell of a lot of fouls.

Neither player seems to have been much of an improvement on what they had previously.

Silva, Slimani and Ineacheo were all £25m plus....2 of them might come good...Slimani won't.

They did get a massively inflated price for Drinkwater though and will make a huge profit on Mahrez.

Leicester are shopping at a very different supermarket than Burnley though and since they won the league have not performed any better than us. To be fair though their signings are a lot better than the £150m that Everton have wasted.

It`s ok saying we should be in for the likes of Maddison but finishing 7th in the league still does not mean we can compete with teams like Everton, Southampton, Leicester, West Ham and many others. If any of these clubs are interested in the same player as we are then they will blow us out of the water. I'm sure Dyche and his team get wind of what these players are looking for in terms of salary and whether we are in with any chance of competing. It`s far too simple to criticise the club by asking why are we not going for these players - Dyche is not stupid. He has no doubt made tentative enquiries about a whole host of players that we never get linked with but finds out at a very early stage in the process that we have no chance of signing them within our salary structure and budgets.

Ndidi wont be there long, he'll be at a big club soon and for a much bigger fee than they paid. He's not an improvement on what they had previously because they had arguably the best defensive midfielder in the world before Ndidi but they'll turn a huge profit on him when he eventually leaves.

Silva is technically fantastic, it may take him time to get up to speed given he missed the start of the season because the deal wasn't complete in time.

I've never understood why Slimani wasn't given more game time, 1 goal in 2 PL starts for Leicester last year, 7 in 13 the year before. He's never a £30M striker so they definitely over paid but sometimes you have to overpay to get the player you want and given they had extra income from CL qualification (and sale of Kante) I don't see a huge issue with it.

Ihneacho I'm not convinced with, showed good finishing ability with City but little else to his game. Overall the expensive mistakes don't matter if you stay in the PL and continue to milk that income and it's even better if you're producing huge profits on some to balance it out. It's like with us, if we sold our whole squad, we'd made a fortune in profit from the fees paid added to the TV income of PL football, we can afford to gamble and potentially make expensive mistakes because we have a fall back option in the £40M we'd get for Pope/Tarkowski if things didn't work out.

Marney&Mee · Post by **Marney&Mee** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:34 pm

He's a Yes man that Ndidi..

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:30 pm

KRBFC wrote:Ndidi wont be there long, he'll be at a big club soon and for a much bigger fee than they paid. He's not an improvement on what they had previously because they had arguably the best defensive midfielder in the world before Ndidi but they'll turn a huge profit on him when he eventually leaves.

Silva is technically fantastic, it may take him time to get up to speed given he missed the start of the season because the deal wasn't complete in time.

I've never understood why Slimani wasn't given more game time, 1 goal in 2 PL starts for Leicester last year, 7 in 13 the year before. He's never a £30M striker so they definitely over paid but sometimes you have to overpay to get the player you want and given they had extra income from CL qualification (and sale of Kante) I don't see a huge issue with it.

Ihneacho I'm not convinced with, showed good finishing ability with City but little else to his game. Overall the expensive mistakes don't matter if you stay in the PL and continue to milk that income and it's even better if you're producing huge profits on some to balance it out. It's like with us, if we sold our whole squad, we'd made a fortune in profit from the fees paid added to the TV income of PL football, we can afford to gamble and potentially make expensive mistakes because we have a fall back option in the £40M we'd get for Pope/Tarkowski if things didn't work out.

Under the model we operate - i.e. debt free, keeping the wage bill to a percentage of our total income, internal salary caps and re-investing some profit into our facilities etc I do not believe we can afford to make many expensive £15m to £20m mistakes. We might get away with the odd one but not many more than that as if we had to sell our best players as you suggest to make up for our mistakes then we are left with a side that will be relegated.

How much debt to Leicester have ? They might have had a windfall from the CL and winning the EPL but from memory they were heavily in debt before this and now appeared to have wasted a lot of that windfall and ended up with a team with a wage bill which I would imagine exceeds £100m a year. Not sure its a sustainable model at all if they continue to make the same mistakes in the transfer market....and it certainly not a model that would work for Burnley.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:41 pm

TVC15 wrote:Under the model we operate - i.e. debt free, keeping the wage bill to a percentage of our total income, internal salary caps and re-investing some profit into our facilities etc I do not believe we can afford to make many expensive £15m to £20m mistakes. We might get away with the odd one but not many more than that as if we had to sell our best players as you suggest to make up for our mistakes then we are left with a side that will be relegated.

How much debt to Leicester have ? They might have had a windfall from the CL and winning the EPL but from memory they were heavily in debt before this and now appeared to have wasted a lot of that windfall and ended up with a team with a wage bill which I would imagine exceeds £100m a year. Not sure its a sustainable model at all if they continue to make the same mistakes in the transfer market....and it certainly not a model that would work for Burnley.

What was our total net spend on transfer fees last year in both transfer windows combined? I'm almost sure we made a profit, possibly a small loss. The added income from finishing 7th, the huge TV income from another year in the PL. We can definitely afford to take a few risks, especially when you consider we have the safety net of £100M+ worth of players to fall back on if things don't go right.

As for Leicester's finances, I'm not sure at all, you're right it's not a model that would work for us but we should be able to compete better and I'm hopeful for this transfer window. It's easy to forget the players currently contracted to clubs though when talking about finances, they don't become worthless, Leicesters squad must be worth over £200M in the current market. If we were relegated next year, how much could we realistically recoup from players currently contracted? Wood, Tarkowski & Pope must be pushing £50M+ alone.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:47 pm

KRBFC wrote:We can definitely afford to take a few risks, especially when you consider we have the safety net of £100M+ worth of players to fall back on if things don't go right.

Every player we sign is a risk. Hendrick, Wood, Cork, Defour, Brady - they were all risks. But if they hadn't worked out, we're limited as to how much we could spend on replacements. We can get blase about the odd £10m-£15m, but it still represents 10% or so of the total budget, and not many businesses can afford to spend 10% of gross income on projects that they suspect may not work out.

Did Dyche want Maddison? Not at that price, it seems. Or if he did, Maddison didn't want us.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:56 pm

KRBFC wrote:What was our total net spend on transfer fees last year in both transfer windows combined? I'm almost sure we made a profit, possibly a small loss. The added income from finishing 7th, the huge TV income from another year in the PL. We can definitely afford to take a few risks, especially when you consider we have the safety net of £100M+ worth of players to fall back on if things don't go right.

As for Leicester's finances, I'm not sure at all, you're right it's not a model that would work for us but we should be able to compete better and I'm hopeful for this transfer window. It's easy to forget the players currently contracted to clubs though when talking about finances, they don't become worthless, Leicesters squad must be worth over £200M in the current market. If we were relegated next year, how much could we realistically recoup from players currently contracted? Wood, Tarkowski & Pope must be pushing £50M+ alone.

When you have a wage bill of a minimum of £70m as we do that's not really how it works. Hopefully we have built in relegation clauses on a lot of the contracts but once we start to sell the best players what will happen will the likes of Defour and others who have only a year left on the contract will also want to leave and we will not get much money for them.
We did unbelievable getting out of the Championship twice but when you see how much the likes of Wolves and Villa spent to get out of that league I think it is just getting harder and harder to go back up if you go down. If we had to sell half our team to pay for expensive mistakes then we may be ok financially but we would not be ok on the pitch.

If you asked the chairman whether we could afford a few expensive mistakes I am pretty sure I know what his answer would be !! It`s probably one of the biggest reasons why we buy the players we do and we don`t have a massive scouting network in Europe.

All that said I agree we should be spending at least £40m to improve our team this summer - we can definitely afford that within our current financial position and if we get the signings right like we have in recent years then I think we are looking at another strong season and consolidating our position in the league (which still sounds a bit like a fairytale when I read that back and realise how far we have come !!!)

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:00 pm

dsr wrote:Every player we sign is a risk. Hendrick, Wood, Cork, Defour, Brady - they were all risks. But if they hadn't worked out, we're limited as to how much we could spend on replacements. We can get blase about the odd £10m-£15m, but it still represents 10% or so of the total budget, and not many businesses can afford to spend 10% of gross income on projects that they suspect may not work out.

Did Dyche want Maddison? Not at that price, it seems. Or if he did, Maddison didn't want us.

Yeah but saying ''it's 10% of gross income'' ignores the fact we have saleable assets and money in the bank before this new wave of cash. We still have last years budget to spend. I don't know if Dyche wanted Maddison or not, I'd have liked us to be in for him although I'd expect him to chose Leicester over us. I'm certainly not criticising the club in any way on this topic, I'm optimistic we'll get good players in and start the season with a stronger group.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:05 pm

TVC15 wrote:When you have a wage bill of a minimum of £70m as we do that's not really how it works. Hopefully we have built in relegation clauses on a lot of the contracts but once we start to sell the best players what will happen will the likes of Defour and others who have only a year left on the contract will also want to leave and we will not get much money for them.
We did unbelievable getting out of the Championship twice but when you see how much the likes of Wolves and Villa spent to get out of that league I think it is just getting harder and harder to go back up if you go down. If we had to sell half our team to pay for expensive mistakes then we may be ok financially but we would not be ok on the pitch.

If you asked the chairman whether we could afford a few expensive mistakes I am pretty sure I know what his answer would be !! It`s probably one of the biggest reasons why we buy the players we do and we don`t have a massive scouting network in Europe.

All that said I agree we should be spending at least £40m to improve our team this summer - we can definitely afford that within our current financial position and if we get the signings right like we have in recent years then I think we are looking at another strong season and consolidating our position in the league (which still sounds a bit like a fairytale when I read that back and realise how far we have come !!!)

Absolutely, which is why I think we may gamble a little more this year, not putting the club at risk of course but realising we do have a safety blanket if it all goes t1ts up. I believe we spent more than £40M in 2016-17, maybe slightly less (Brady, Defour, Hendrick), it makes for an interesting window, I'm excited I just wish it would hurry up and kick into gear.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:37 pm

Spijed wrote:Obviously we need to keep evolving. But it's the same broken record with some on here that other clubs (those that finished below us btw) seem to get their business done early.

As long as we sign players in time what difference does it make?

If it did make much of a difference then don't you think that clubs who sign a few players before us would be finishing higher in the table?

The "broken record" to which you refer is that of you types who seem to suffer from some sort of paranoia where SD and BFC are concerned.
If you are not interested in the signings made by our nearest rivals then fair enough I suppose, but your response was pathetic.
Posting about a transfer during the transfer window is only a criticism of the club in your opinion, nothing in my post criticises the club.