Migrant Child Seperation

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:37 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:But not acknowledging it and keeping it up there unchanged is.

My point is that when those on here who are not "of the right" do it, we tend to change it and our regular opponents just keep parroting out already discredited fake news.

Even Leave.EU did it today with a pic showing thousands at a pro-Brexit demonstration today. In hats and coats, with no leaves on the trees.

They know none of their support base cares if fake, they just want to read what they want to.

Has Time made a claim that the child was one of those separated from her parents? If they've not then what exactly are they supposed to retract?

Edit: "Time also published an article about the image, which said the girl was taken away, screaming, by border patrol agents. That never happened: The toddler’s mother picked her up and they were both taken away together, according to correction posted in Time."

Right. lol. So they did and they retracted it. So what exactly have they done wrong? They ****** up and corrected it. That's what ethical journalists are supposed to do.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:43 pm

I've no idea to be honest IT.

The cover is powerful and should ram home the position that President Fascist is taking, but if it's not an unaccompanied minor then it should be a different photo. The message is correct, but possibly the photo isn't

We are better than them, and the best way to show this is not to stoop to their level.*

*in reporting news, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:47 pm

But the cover didn't make the claim, the article did. And they retracted the article. This isn't stooping to their level. This is actually showing what the level should be, which the increasingly right-wing media never seems to reach.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:54 pm

Which is good because its better than what "they" do.

Why are we arguing btw?

We both agree that this was the right thing to do.

We both agree that its nothing that Trump supporters would do.

All Good!

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:59 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which is good because its better than what "they" do.

Why are we arguing btw?

We both agree that this was the right thing to do.

We both agree that its nothing that Trump supporters would do.

All Good!

**** knows. lol.

But the good news is that in America Fox News have torn Trump apart for his "no judges or court cases" tweet in which he also stressed the importance of the rule of law. Have a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P9zRBGPR8o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only kidding. It was actually Rachel Maddow on MSNBC 9 years ago tearing Obama apart for a comparably unconstitutional idea. The so-called "liberal media" is so much better than Fox News's State Media. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il-22Q8mECc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by claretandy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:00 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:But the cover didn't make the claim, the article did. And they retracted the article. This isn't stooping to their level. This is actually showing what the level should be, which the increasingly right-wing media never seems to reach.
So on this basis there was nothing wrong with Farage's "breaking point" poster then ?

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:31 am

claretandy wrote:So on this basis there was nothing wrong with Farage's "breaking point" poster then ?
Thing is that poster was genuinely "refugees" flooding into Europe.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:05 am

Er, yes

Simply because that was a queue at the Hungarian border (I think) and those refugees would still have to cross several countries and a 20 mile stretch of water to get here to get their free house and benefits, whilst taking all the jobs.

And leaving the EU will not stop the refugees queueing at the border, nor stop them crossing several countries or trying to cross the channel, or gettnig free houses and benefits, whilst taking all the jobs.

You'll have to explain to me how leaving the EU stops that, cos I don't see it stopping.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:18 am

Course, and you have to remember just how much money Farage and his frieds "the men of the people" made on referendum night.

Not the elites at all. Just simple working men making an absolute fortune.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -the-crash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:54 pm

There was never a plan in place to return these kids to their parents.

Even if you think that these parents and these kids deserved to be separated, surely even the most extreme Trump follower can see a way to be outraged that this guy separated children from parents without the ability to put them back together when they are deported.
Several hundreds of children now without parents because no one thought far enough ahead after snatching them away.

But I couldn't possibly be outraged by it. It's clearly all mock rage and virtue signalling.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... niting-fa/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:58 pm

Public keeping the pressure up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44657362 see Melania some people care.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:24 pm

This is normal now. Before it was rare, and accidental, but now it's deliberate and much more frequent.

A 1-year old boy is a defendant in court as an illegal immigrant. I read earlier in the week it was the turn of a 6-month old baby. What the **** kind of people vote for this?

http://time.com/5332740/immigration-judge-boy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:50 pm

A team of lawyers conducted 60 interviews with migrant children being held in an El Paso, Texas, detention camp and found conditions to be dismal, with minors being tasked with caring for other children, and lack of proper sanitation and food.

Fifteen of those in the holding center had the flu and 10 more were quarantined with illness, according to the lawyers, who first gave the data to the Associated Press. Three infants were being detained alongside their teenage mothers, and many of the detained children were under the age of 12.

"A Border Patrol agent came in our room with a 2-year-old boy and asked us, 'Who wants to take care of this little boy?' Another girl said she would take care of him, but she lost interest after a few hours and so I started taking care of him yesterday," one teenaged girl told the lawyers in an interview. The lawyers saw the boy and reported that he was not wearing a diaper, had wet his pants and his shirt was covered in mucus.

Law professor Warren Binford, who aided in the interviews, said she witnessed an 8-year-old girl caring for a 4-year-old child who was very dirty; the girl was unable to get the boy to take a shower. Binford also described the children she interviewed as sleep-deprived, often falling asleep while speaking with her.

Children told the lawyers that they were often fed un-defrosted frozen food or plain rice, and were not given changes of clothing or allowed to shower on a regular basis.

"In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention, I have never heard of this level of inhumanity," said Holly Cooper, co-director of the University of California, Davis' Immigration Law Clinic, to the AP. "Seeing our country at this crucible moment where we have forsaken children and failed to see them as human is hopefully a wake up for this country to move toward change."

Some of the children held in the facility had arrived at the U.S. southern border without their guardians and others had been separated from their families by the government.

The lawyers were inspecting the facility as part of what is known as the Flores agreement, which resulted from a landmark 1985 case that established that facilities where minor migrants are held must be kept "safe and sanitary." President Donald Trump said in April that the Flores decision "is a disaster," but appeared to believe that it referred to a judge named Flores, rather than Jenny Lisette Flores, an unaccompanied teenage migrant from El Salvador.

A representative of the Trump administration, the Justice Department's Sarah Fabian, argued Tuesday that safe and sanitary conditions don't necessarily have to include toothbrushes, soap or towels for children.

At least five migrant children have died in U.S. custody since late in 2018.

https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-childr ... mp-1445313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Blackrod » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:23 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:The right wing media in the USA calling these kids child actors and saying the camps are more like "summer camps".

This really is Nazism in a different disguise.
This isn’t nice to see and isn’t right. I wish people would not use the term ‘nazi’ lightly though. Nazis shot children in front of their parents never mind separating them.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:55 pm

Blackrod wrote:This isn’t nice to see and isn’t right. I wish people would not use the term ‘nazi’ lightly though. Nazis shot children in front of their parents never mind separating them.

We're not using the term lightly. You're not appreciating the seriousness of what is happening.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:34 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Er, yes

Simply because that was a queue at the Hungarian border (I think) and those refugees would still have to cross several countries and a 20 mile stretch of water to get here to get their free house and benefits, whilst taking all the jobs.

And leaving the EU will not stop the refugees queueing at the border, nor stop them crossing several countries or trying to cross the channel, or gettnig free houses and benefits, whilst taking all the jobs.

You'll have to explain to me how leaving the EU stops that, cos I don't see it stopping.
Leaving the EU won't stop the EU letting the refugees/immigrants/potential terrorists travel across the EU to the UK.

Blair threw open our country to anyone who wanted to come here even if they couldn't support themselves and successive governments have failed to get a grip on the issue, meaning the tap won't be easily turned off.
We can't even throw out the undesirables because they'll spout the usual crap about a right to family life and that's going to include those from the child abuse gangs who've got dual nationality etc.

Our governments have failed us miserably in dealing with this issue but they've been like it for years.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by mdd2 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:09 pm

Well the stats may have been wrong but on the prog on TV about who has the right to stay in the UK we were trying to deport four women from two families who clearly had every right to be here but the frightening stats if true were that over 600000 people applied from non EEC countries to settle here in one year and to meet the present situation there is a need for about 130000 extra school places needed inLondon in the next 5 years with a need to build one house every 4 minutes to deal with the housing crisis. And few if any of those here refused the right to stay actually leave
And I challenge anyone to find the true facts of the benefits and pitfalls of migration
Yes there are plusses and minuses but the net benefit or lack of cannot be known since we have no idea who is here and what those here do
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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by aggi » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:28 pm

The latest stats showed that EU immigrants are pretty much being replaced by non-EU immigrants for UK immigration. Obviously a lot of people knew this would happen but a lot have willfully remained blind to it.

In terms of not being able to deport people because of human rights, the numbers are miniscule. A lot of the reporting (and MPs) have purposefully misrepresented this. Our own Prime Minister lied about it for instance.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by aggi » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:31 pm

In terms of the US, they've clearly done a lot "better" than May did at implementing a hostile environment.

I suspect it will be one of those things that rumble on until, at some point in the future, people look back and wonder How the hell was this viewed as ok?
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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by tiger76 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:27 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48767529

A turning point or will both sides use this to score political points.

It's a tragic loss of life,but migrants have been repeatedly warned not to attempt such dangerous journeys.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:57 pm

tiger76 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48767529

A turning point or will both sides use this to score political points.

It's a tragic loss of life,but migrants have been repeatedly warned not to attempt such dangerous journeys.
The family tried to request asylum legally but were turned away. Whose fault is that, and why is correctly identifying whose fault it is "scoring political points". This is republican policy. They want this to happen because they think it acts as a deterrent.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:We're not using the term lightly. You're not appreciating the seriousness of what is happening.
yes you are, you and your crowd literally do it ALL THE TIME

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:25 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:yes you are, you and your crowd literally do it ALL THE TIME

We warned you that this administration would resort to concentration camps while they were still campaigning for election, and people like you scoffed at the idea and accused us of scaremongering and using terms lightly. And we have been proven correct. The US is running concentration camps and you're still in denial that our warnings were accurate. You people are even denying that the concentration camps, which experts acknowledge are literally concentration camps, are actually concentration camps.

I can't help but wonder if the reason you're choosing to be so obviously wrong (and it has to be a choice at this stage) is because you are just instinctively opposed to literally everything the other "team" says is happening.

If your detention facility forces people to live in a cell with a maximum capacity of 35 people along with 154 others, or in a cell designed to hold no more than 8 people along with 40 other people, or in a cell designed for 12 along with 75 other detainees, for days and sometimes weeks, then your detention facility is a concentration camp.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by mdd2 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:50 pm

As the UK population rises yet again but only by a modest 400,000 in the last year via 250k net migration births at about 800k and deaths up to about 650K-this island will soon be a concentration camp. :D :D

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:00 pm

mdd2's post is what it looks like when you use "concentration camps" lightly.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:05 pm

tiger76 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48767529

A turning point or will both sides use this to score political points.

It's a tragic loss of life,but migrants have been repeatedly warned not to attempt such dangerous journeys.
Probably as much of a turning point as the images of children in the Mediterranean didn't turn out to be.

That's still happening, just the media aren't reporting it that often anymore.
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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:07 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The family tried to request asylum legally but were turned away. Whose fault is that, and why is correctly identifying whose fault it is "scoring political points". This is republican policy. They want this to happen because they think it acts as a deterrent.
Who's fault is it they didn't qualify for asylum legally?

Dunno, I'm sure you've got all the facts to enable us to ascertain if their request for asylum was dealt with fairly and correctly.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:16 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Who's fault is it they didn't qualify for asylum legally?

Dunno, I'm sure you've got all the facts to enable us to ascertain if their request for asylum was dealt with fairly and correctly.
They were turned away. They weren't allowed to apply. It's not that they didn't qualify.

This is happening all over the border too, btw, not just at the consulate. The US placed their checkpoints inside Mexico so that when refugees arrive and try to claim asylum they can be refused immediately because they're not on American soil. This increases illegal border crossings because it's the only way for them to reach American soil in order to legally claim asylum, but of course the US can then say that they crossed illegally and lock them up.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:26 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:They were turned away. They weren't allowed to apply. It's not that they didn't qualify.

This is happening all over the border too, btw, not just at the consulate. The US placed their checkpoints inside Mexico so that when refugees arrive and try to claim asylum they can be refused immediately because they're not on American soil. This increases illegal border crossings because it's the only way for them to reach American soil in order to legally claim asylum, but of course the US can then say that they crossed illegally and lock them up.
Genuine questions then.

Have we done something similar with Calais?

How many immigrants should a country take?
Should they take any adult regardless of their work and language skills?

I see people harp on about the UK being full, when in reality it isn't, it's just the infrastructure has been neglected by successive governments for decades.

I'm guessing the US would have a similar problem if they allowed uncontrolled migration..

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:35 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Genuine questions then.

Have we done something similar with Calais?

How many immigrants should a country take?
Should they take any adult regardless of their work and language skills?

I see people harp on about the UK being full, when in reality it isn't, it's just the infrastructure has been neglected by successive governments for decades.

I'm guessing the US would have a similar problem if they allowed uncontrolled migration..
I don't know. Are we preventing people from legally reaching the UK in order to claim asylum? That's what Customs and Border Patrol are doing on the US-Mexico border.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:35 pm

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/06/ ... 44681.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So Mexico don't want an unlimited number of asylum seekers returned, have potentially negotiated a deal to be the safe 3rd country for asylum seekers to stay in and are struggling with people crossing their southern border.

12k people returned to Mexico since January, that's a huge amount.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:36 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I don't know. Are we preventing people from legally reaching the UK in order to claim asylum? That's what Customs and Border Patrol are doing on the US-Mexico border.
You've taken such an interest in the USA, I just thought you'd have the same level of interest in what the UK does.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:39 pm

Isn't an official US department office technically US land?,

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Isn't an official US department office technically US land?,
No. Only embassies would count as that.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:38 pm

aggi wrote:No. Only embassies would count as that.
Or military bases, because I know that applies to UK bases.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:10 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Or military bases, because I know that applies to UK bases.
I'm almost certain that isn't the case. There are different rules about how the law is applied to visiting servicemen and employees, etc but the base isn't Amercian Territory

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:13 pm

aggi wrote:I'm almost certain that isn't the case. There are different rules about how the law is applied to visiting servicemen and employees, etc but the base isn't Amercian Territory
My brother was born in a British army hospital in Germany but doesn't qualify for dual nationality because it was in said hospital I've always been led to believe.

I was born in a civvy hospital in Ireland so I qualify for dual nationality.

I assumed the same would apply to some other things like embassies and/or border controls.

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Re: Migrant Child Seperation

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:48 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:My brother was born in a British army hospital in Germany but doesn't qualify for dual nationality because it was in said hospital I've always been led to believe.

I was born in a civvy hospital in Ireland so I qualify for dual nationality.

I assumed the same would apply to some other things like embassies and/or border controls.
John McCain was born in Panama but it was on a US military base which is why he was able to run for President at a time when Republicans wanted to disqualify Obama for being born in Hawaii. It used to be that you must be born on US soil which is why McCain qualified and isn't controversial. But they threw out all attempts at not being hypocrites when they let Ted Cruz run for president in 2016 having been born in Calgary.

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