Sugar on Senegal

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:42 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44544897" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can nobody take a joke these days?

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:45 pm

People are desperate to be offended nowadays. However, the 'joke' isn't particularly funny anyway.

Non-story!

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:00 pm

Racist! Wouldn't surprise me if he was anti-Semitic as well.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:15 pm

stone him.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:23 pm

Why do these people not know that posting on Twitter only ever leads to bad things? Mind you, he must have been drunk to think he could get away with that sort of thing on any public medium.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:24 pm

There's a lot of stuff that makes me think "It's PC gone mad" these days. Nearly all of it. But then I see something like this where somebody effectively points at some black people (I really don't give a **** if that's the 'right' word these days) and goes, "Ha ha - I've seen black people before! On a beach! They all look the same to me! Ha Ha!"

I mean, what sort of imbecile would do that and think it was funny? Put aside whether it's "nice". What sort of moron would think it's funny? It's the observational wit of a 3 year old.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:34 pm

how very dare he try to crack a joke.
no one was injured or died and to my knowledge the world didn't stop revolving. Perhaps some people just want to find excuses to whinge and moan about absolutely nothing.
If Lord Sugar was a racist then I am sure we would have known about it before now.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:46 pm

You can't beat a good old "All them darkies look the same" joke can you.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:52 pm

You'd think it they were so outraged and offended it would be the "libtards" on here starting these posts but funny how it always seems to be the "right wing" nutjobs who start the threads telling us all how they are offended about other people being offended despite no-one else on this forum giving a sh*t

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:13 pm

aggi wrote:You can't beat a good old "All them darkies look the same" joke can you.

Similar thoughts to what I was thinking

Remember back in the 60's when some people used to say that if there were any of those 'coloured' people in a dark room then you wouldn't know they were there unless they smiled

Hilarious!

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:15 pm

You don't need to be offended by a joke to think the person making it is an arsehole. In spite of people being offended on behalf of others or being offended at the professionally offended, Sugar is still being a racist old fart.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:21 pm

The comment was about the same level of humour as the crap jokes he comes out with on The Apprentice.

I don`t know if Sugar is racist...I doubt it. The comment was not racist IMHO...but it was stupid.

Sugar is an old fashioned straight talking stubborn bigot - he tried to pretend he is down with the kids but he basically hates anyone who has the audacity to express a different opinion to him.

What he does not seem to have worked out yet is that whilst he can say what he wants in his own workplace and boardroom saying things like this on Twitter is not the same.

He does not really care though...and only reluctantly took the tweet down still insisting he had said nothing wrong.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:25 pm

I wonder if I could be offended, by people pretending to be offended.

Would that work?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:28 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I wonder if I could be offended, by people pretending to be offended.

Would that work?

Fill yer boots FF....fill yer boots

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:44 pm

Maybe it's a bit of karma for some of his more recent stuff?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:32 pm

A joke either comes from a good or bad place.

Maybe Sir Alan was telling the joke to point fun at the people who think all black people look alike?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:36 pm

Inchy wrote:A joke either comes from a good or bad place.

Maybe Sir Alan was telling the joke to point fun at the people who think all black people look alike?

It's possible. It's not a funny joke but I also don't think it comes from such a bad place. It's dumb and ignorant, and quite rightly he's apologised, but it's worth remembering that there are certainly more racist jokes going around about black people, and they often come from much worse places.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:44 pm

Bring back the Golly Wog and slavery

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:55 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:but it's worth remembering that there are certainly more racist jokes going around about black people, and they often come from much worse places.

Like the House of Lords?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:47 am

mkmel wrote:Similar thoughts to what I was thinking

Remember back in the 60's when some people used to say that if there were any of those 'coloured' people in a dark room then you wouldn't know they were there unless they smiled

Hilarious!

A friend of mine across the road from me in the middle of last winter (dark nights) was out walking his dog and we nearly bumped into each other rounding a corner. I said 'hi Kelvin, didn't see you there' and he said 'it's because I wasn't smiling'. Kelvin is 'non-white' and happily cracked the joke himself. Now unless he intended to offend himself by his own comments I would suggest he doesn't find such humour 'offensive'.

We live in an era where too many people are too busy being offended on other people's behalf while the 'offendees' (is that a word?) are not particularly bothered. Similarly an Asian colleague of mine 5/6 years ago (a good guy and very funny) was forever cracking P-A-K-I jokes and we laughed together. If more people did this there would be no need for the dreaded political correctness. Comedy and art should not be shackled by others taking offense.

And yes, I thought the Sugar thing was actually quite funny.

NB: I spelt out the 'P' word because of the distinct possibility that it would be 'censored'.

Socrates · Post by **Socrates** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 am

claretnproud wrote:how very dare he try to crack a joke.
no one was injured or died and to my knowledge the world didn't stop revolving. Perhaps some people just want to find excuses to whinge and moan about absolutely nothing.
If Lord Sugar was a racist then I am sure we would have known about it before now.

Has nobody ever drawn a diagram for you about laughing and belittling a group of people and then ..... I dunno ..... putting them in cages or lynching them?

Do you think the holocaust started with the gas chambers? Or did it start with making jokes, dehumanising them and then doing it?

F**king plum.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:45 am

Is this the same guy who has had a lot to say on anti-semitism and the Labour Party?
Amazing!

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:47 am

Socrates wrote:Has nobody ever drawn a diagram for you about laughing and belittling a group of people and then ..... I dunno ..... putting them in cages or lynching them?

Do you think the holocaust started with the gas chambers? Or did it start with making jokes, dehumanising them and then doing it?

F**king plum.

Bloody hell!! That's a jump.

Socrates · Post by **Socrates** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:21 pm

JTClaret wrote:Bloody hell!! That's a jump.

Not if you know anything about history.

There is a rise in nationalism and the far right occurring correctly, and a significant individual such as Sugar thinking it appropriate to make a joke like this shows that people either aren’t aware of that or don’t care.

I’ll say it again though ..... the holocaust didn’t start with the gas chambers.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:38 pm

Socrates wrote:Not if you know anything about history.

There is a rise in nationalism and the far right occurring correctly, and a significant individual such as Sugar thinking it appropriate to make a joke like this shows that people either aren’t aware of that or don’t care.

I’ll say it again though ..... the holocaust didn’t start with the gas chambers.

I'm going to hope that's a joke... a sick holocaust joke.
Anyone who thinks every comment that has racist connotations is linked to genocide must live in a very worrying world

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:46 pm

Socrates wrote:Do you think the holocaust started with the gas chambers? Or did it start with making jokes, dehumanising them and then doing it?

Since you ask, the holocaust didn't start with jokes. You don't hate people you joke about and you don't joke about people you hate.

Anyway, as Captain Mainwaring pointed out, the Germans have no sense of humour!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:48 pm

I give this thread about four posts before someone who sounds like a porno involving dogs turns up

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:01 pm

For those who see this as completely harmless, funny and just a joke take a step back and just think what your reaction would have been had he posted a picture of some people with physical disabilities and made a joke using an outdated stereotypical view ridiculing them in the name of a bit of fun.

Im sure some (not all) of you would have a different opinion and would view it as bad taste and thought him to be a bit of a c*nt for making fun out of the disabled.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:02 pm

Alan Partridge sketch extract showing how it's done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRQzby9_NVo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:04 pm

dsr wrote:Since you ask, the holocaust didn't start with jokes. You don't hate people you joke about and you don't joke about people you hate.

Anyway, as Captain Mainwaring pointed out, the Germans have no sense of humour!

Wrong.

https://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture ... y-1.362127" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Once Jews were seen by the public as outsiders or intruders, the authorities could do with them what they wanted," Herzog writes. "In this sense, no anti-Jewish joke, however mild, was harmless. Moreover, making light of the Jews against the backdrop of their persecution, disappropriation, and forced exile was heartless and cynical, and it gave the gloss of legitimacy to those acts of injustice."

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:37 pm

dsr wrote:Anyway, as Captain Mainwaring pointed out, the Germans have no sense of humour!

I thought it was this chap

https://youtu.be/_3iaiGKz0iU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Surely it was because they (the Senegal team)were photographed next to sunglasses and other odds and ends you'd find in Marbella, it wasn't the players that prompted the joke but the merchandise, still he should have thought before he typed.

Didn't a tennis commentator get stick for saying Serena Williams used Guerilla tactics and it was construed as racist?

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:30 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:Surely it was because they (the Senegal team)were photographed next to sunglasses and other odds and ends you'd find in Marbella...

There's really no helping some people.

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:35 pm

imagine calling alan sugar 'lord'.

i cringe at the thought.

Mondsley · Post by **Mondsley** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:42 pm

It's inevitable that England will now play Senegal in the last 16 and get beat. Making Sugar look even more stupid.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:18 pm

I wonder what Senegal think of Sugar.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:48 am

Inchy wrote:A joke either comes from a good or bad place.

Maybe Sir Alan was telling the joke to point fun at the people who think all black people look alike?

I doubt this very much in my opinion.

Nobody will know if he personally had racist intent and that is the danger of social media. His point may have been more to the ~I do not recognise any of these guys at all and I have never heard of them, they look like they have dragged in people off the beach selling goods in Marbella. A bit of the where did they find this opponent down the local pub in a one sided boxing match, slur.

Then again he may have been being racist and suggesting all people from African origins look alike. I doubt it for somebody in the limelight to knowingly do that and bring the wrath of social media upon himself.

Only Sugar will know. A dangerous medium is posting anything on social media for people with vast amounts of followers.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:47 am

thatdberight wrote:There's really no helping some people.

You could try helping me.

It may be fruitless.

Just because I offer an explanation as to why Sugar may have written what he did doesn't mean I think he was right.

Ok the team photo with the picture of rows of sunglasses (which seems to be photoshopped in) may have appeared after his twitter remark or it may have prompted his remark, but surely knowing which is the difference between a man guilty of badly judged racial stereotyping and someone trying to tell a joke, albeit an unfunny one.

I unfortunately don't know the sequence of events.

Nuances are not clearly seen within social media.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:53 am

Unfortunately, those who say everything has become too PC etc. probably don't know what racism is nor can define it.

They come from an era when words like "Sambo" were acceptable, as it once was in the 70's.

Socrates · Post by **Socrates** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:00 am

JTClaret wrote:I'm going to hope that's a joke... a sick holocaust joke.
Anyone who thinks every comment that has racist connotations is linked to genocide must live in a very worrying world

Firstly, I didn’t say every comment is linked to genocide. I very specifically payed out why Sugar saying it was different.

Secondly, if you think there’s no link then have a read of this.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:22 am

Spijed wrote:Unfortunately, those who say everything has become too PC etc. probably don't know what racism is nor can define it.

They come from an era when words like "Sambo" were acceptable, as it once was in the 70's.

Eddie Booth is alive and well i see.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:26 am

Loving people telling us on this board what is and what isn't going down the holocaust/genocide route.

Every holocaust survivor is saying the same thing

"This is how it started"

I mean, what do they know eh?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:58 am

Socrates wrote:Has nobody ever drawn a diagram for you about laughing and belittling a group of people and then ..... I dunno ..... putting them in cages or lynching them?

Do you think the holocaust started with the gas chambers? Or did it start with making jokes, dehumanising them and then doing it?

F**king plum.

There's being precious then there is abusing the privilege, you have just done the latter.

'Oh dear, we mustn't make jokes at other people's expense, it's unacceptable'.

I am an egalitarian and hate racism and sexism and homophobia.
I also hate political correctness and believe passionately in freedom of speech, even if it is 'offensive'.
It is possible to believe in both of these concepts and only those who see racism etc. where there is none fail to see that. In fact people who get precious about racism (for example) where none is intended should really be looking inside themselves for making a big thing about the differences in colour and race.
I don't make a big thing about anybody's colour or religion or sexual orientation but I reserve the right to make fun of anyone. I am partially sighted in one eye and have been since I was 5, I have a cataract developing nicely in the other and my hearing is not what it should be, which technically qualifies me as 'disabled'. If anyone wants to make a joke about that if it's funny I'll laugh, if it's not I won't, what I won't do is get upset or expect anyone to get upset on my behalf.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:00 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Loving people telling us on this board what is and what isn't going down the holocaust/genocide route.

Every holocaust survivor is saying the same thing

"This is how it started"

I mean, what do they know eh?

If this sort of comment is likely to lead to a holocaust, then how come Alf Garnett and Bernard Manning didn't create a holocaust in (as Spijed accurately points out) the far-worse seventies?

Irish jokes have been in vogue for centuries, but I doubt they were responsible for the Civil War or any of the later troubles. Sugar was crass (for thinking it funny enough to post) and stupid (for posting it), but if he's on the road to holocaust, then plenty of other comedians of the recent past must be marching hand in hand with Adolf.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:01 am

houseboy wrote:There's being precious then there is abusing the privilege, you have just done the latter.

'Oh dear, we mustn't make jokes at other people's expense, it's unacceptable'.

I am an egalitarian and hate racism and sexism and homophobia.
I also hate political correctness and believe passionately in freedom of speech, even if it is 'offensive'.
It is possible to believe in both of these concepts and only those who see racism etc. where there is none fail to see that. In fact people who get precious about racism (for example) where none is intended should really be looking inside themselves for making a big thing about the differences in colour and race.
I don't make a big thing about anybody's colour or religion or sexual orientation but I reserve the right to make fun of anyone. I am partially sighted in one eye and have been since I was 5, I have a cataract developing nicely in the other and my hearing is not what it should be, which technically qualifies me as 'disabled'. If anyone wants to make a joke about that if it's funny I'll laugh, if it's not I won't, what I won't do is get upset or expect anyone to get upset on my behalf.

So how do you stop racism if it's ok to tell racist jokes?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:03 am

If this sort of comment is likely to lead to a holocaust, then how come Alf Garnett and Bernard Manning didn't create a holocaust in (as Spijed accurately points out) the far-worse seventies?

Irish jokes have been in vogue for centuries, but I doubt they were responsible for the Civil War or any of the later troubles. Sugar was crass (for thinking it funny enough to post) and stupid (for posting it), but if he's on the road to holocaust, then plenty of other comedians of the recent past must be marching hand in hand with Adolf.

Honestly? Because the political situation wasn't the same as it is now, and its a lot easier to spread total crap that plays on peoples emotions.

Seen the airbus news today btw?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:05 am

Spijed wrote:So how do you stop racism if it's ok to tell racist jokes?

I think the argument is whether the "joke" posted by Alan Sugar was actually racist or not.

Did he take the mick out of the Senegalese football team by likening them to sunglasses salesmen, or did he take the mick out of black people by likening them to sunglasses salesmen? If you answer that, it will define if he was just stupid or racist.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:13 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Honestly? Because the political situation wasn't the same as it is now, and its a lot easier to spread total crap that plays on peoples emotions.

Seen the airbus news today btw?

The political situation now is a lot different from thirties Germany as well, or from nineties Yugoslavia or Rwanda for that matter. But I wouldn't agree that starting a holocaust here would be easier than it was there.

What I don't like is the idea that we can only joke about our "own kind". If white English can only tell jokes about white English, then that makes "white English" into a separate group with a distinct identity, and all the rest of humanity onto another separate group or groups. I don't like separate groups - there should only be one race, and that's human.

Socrates · Post by **Socrates** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:14 am

houseboy wrote:There's being precious then there is abusing the privilege, you have just done the latter.

'Oh dear, we mustn't make jokes at other people's expense, it's unacceptable'.

I am an egalitarian and hate racism and sexism and homophobia.
I also hate political correctness and believe passionately in freedom of speech, even if it is 'offensive'.
It is possible to believe in both of these concepts and only those who see racism etc. where there is none fail to see that. In fact people who get precious about racism (for example) where none is intended should really be looking inside themselves for making a big thing about the differences in colour and race.
I don't make a big thing about anybody's colour or religion or sexual orientation but I reserve the right to make fun of anyone. I am partially sighted in one eye and have been since I was 5, I have a cataract developing nicely in the other and my hearing is not what it should be, which technically qualifies me as 'disabled'. If anyone wants to make a joke about that if it's funny I'll laugh, if it's not I won't, what I won't do is get upset or expect anyone to get upset on my behalf.

Always amazing how these egalitarian types go stronger on those who criticise racism and bigotry than actual racists or bigots.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:26 am

Socrates wrote:Secondly, if you think there’s no link then have a read of this.

I understand the link... however I don't think comments like this deserve this link.
Stupid, as a public figure, absolutely. If he'd said it to his mate in the pub, daft, and possibly laughed at with the intention it was meant.
Perhaps there will be lots of mini-hitlers who become Sugar mega-fans after this comment... or perhaps you're going way over-board.