Airbus and Brexit

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:08 pm

A little late to the party but some seriously worrying news with regards to Airbus leaving the UK without a Brexit deal.

Do you think it will happen?

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:14 pm

Project fear, scaremongering, they need us more than we need them etc etc....

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:32 pm

I'm sure Ringo will be along any moment to clear up why this is more liberal nonsense, hold tight.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:34 pm

Airbus have and will continue to use every possible excuse to lever payouts from Government to protect jobs.... just like they have done several times before Brexit. If memory serves we have only ever got a small percentage of the work we were promised from previous handouts...... without which the whole thing would have gone bust years ago. Like a lot of other claims..... leaving Britain and losing British jobs and backing would end Airbus and there are far too many mainland European's sitting on that nest of Golden British Eggs

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:36 pm

I was particularly bemused by George Freeman MP's tweet:

Seriously worrying, if true, story in @thetimes of @Airbus planning major disinvestment from the UK. I will be seeking urgent reassurances from Cabinet Ministers that this sort of major loss of jobs, investment and prosperity as a result of #Brexit will NOT happen.
https://twitter.com/GeorgeFreemanMP/sta ... 6572243968" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What reassurances does he think they can give, is he just hoping they'll tell him it's all going to be OK?

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:41 pm

I'm more interested to find out what happens when RollsRoyce stop servicing half the world's aeroplane engines

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Also airbus, PSA,, Renault have had EUhandouts... Apparently it's not againt the law if it's a French company.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:51 pm

Yawn, will believe it when I see it.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:54 pm

starting_11 wrote:I'm more interested to find out what happens when RollsRoyce stop servicing half the world's aeroplane engines

I thought that Rolls Royce had consistently warned against the dangers of brexit, even going so far as to advise its workers which way to vote ahead of the referendum?
They have maintained this position.
Just days after Chancellor Philip Hammond confirmed the UK would pull out of the single market and customs union.
The car manufacturer's chief executive called last year for "as little change as possible" as he warned against a "hard" Brexit.
Then in November;

“We are worried about border checks and whether that will make our supply chain flow less fluidly,”

Then:
“We are worried about the talent and making sure that we always get the right talent. We also work very closely with European universities and we worry that may break down and some of the research funding may fall away. We worry about regulations.”
Then - according to brexit backing Telegraph- just 2 months ago:

"Rolls-Royce is preparing to relocate the “signing off” of British-made airliner engines to Europe, as the EU aviation authority will hold the right to certify they are safe to fly in the event of a hard Brexit.
The iconic British brand - and leading member of the country’s £31.8bn-a-year aerospace sector - is preparing the contingency plan to protect itself from huge disruption if negotiations stall over Britain leaving the EU.
Without such an arrangement, sources inside the company say that design, manufacturing and maintenance of Rolls-Royce engines built at its Derby base could grind to a halt if Britain suffers a “cliff-edge” departure from the EU.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:56 pm

Which means that when the UK refuse to do it, you should blame the government, rather than the EU.

But no one ever does......

Anyway, long term airbus is letting us know that they can't promise to keep the manufacturing here in the event of a "No deal" and that without clarity they can't promise to invest. Anyone who has been following this even half closely knows that all the multi-nationals are saying this, but not saying it as publically as this.

I doubt the penny is going to drop anytime soon, but someone in government is going to have to dismiss the idea of a "No deal" publically. Its not even remotely a consideration anymore, a fact recognised by everyone who has any influence (ie NOT Nigel Farage) and it just shows how weak we seem that a group of 50-60 Tory MPs of the ERG can effectively hold the govt to ransom, even though at some stage they are going to have to back down.

Someone, somewhere is going to have to grasp the mantle to lead us out of this with a deal, or we'll have a new government and be back in before Ringo has finished celebrating.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:07 pm

So, I think they're saying that we won't have equal manufacturing/safety/operating standards when we leave that's why there will be no air traffic allowed into Europe and Airbus can't make wings here anymore.

So that's no overflights from EU airlines. How the **** are they going to get to north America when they can't fly thru the UK and Spain and France ATC are on strike.

It won't matter anyway because Rolls-Royce won't be allowed to service their engines so they won't be flying anyway an they'll be under attack from Russia because their military is ****** because BAE systems won't be allowed fix or service pretty much every piece of equipment they have.

I think they need us slightly, yet their threats seem to be that they don't need us one bit.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:15 pm

The chances of you reading the detailed explanations of what all this means are zero.

But I'll provide them anyway

https://twitter.com/HenryNewman/status/ ... 5426574336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 0444865536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:22 pm

Just wondering, when we signed up to a trading union in the 70s... when did that ever mean we were joining the Federal State of Europe?

Just wondering.

Also, not that it matters because there's no countries worth admitting to the EU in future but, how they're handling Brexit should be an absolute warning sign to ANY country even thinking about signing up.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:28 pm

Worrying news if it happens, but as a company they regularly appear to seek bailouts or financial assistance and their projects over run and costs increase.

They're probably getting ready to ask for another one, it's about due.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:38 pm

And your knowledge of EU procedures and vetos is, as suspected, rudimentary.

It would not kill you lot to actually do some research sometimes you know!

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:46 pm

starting_11 wrote:I'm more interested to find out what happens when RollsRoyce stop servicing half the world's aeroplane engines

Why do you think they'd stop the part of their business that is profitable?

They make a loss on the engine, make money on the MRO contracts.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:48 pm

starting_11 wrote:because BAE systems won't be allowed fix or service pretty much every piece of equipment they have.

Like?

BAE don't hold any of the other EU member's Typhoon service contracts.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:01 pm

They make more than Typoons

And Rolls Royce would be forced to stop under the same rules, not that they'd be chosing to.

DUh!

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:02 pm

A company I'm on very good terms with is currently making contingency plans to relocate to the Netherlands in the event of a 'no deal'. The directors are tired of UK govt indecision, more like complete shambles, regarding Brexit. Apparently, they've been welcomed with open arms by the local wethouders.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:05 pm

He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

Anyway, here are the (predictable) responses from UKIP

This is good

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status ... 5897664513" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a belter suggesting nationalistion from er, a Conservative MEP

https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1010122002378747905" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:08 pm

Are you talking about me?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:09 pm

BMW as well now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-445 ... ow_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:09 pm

Go down to Hams Hall and check out the BMW plant there.

They ain't going nowhere!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:13 pm

Cos car plants never close down ever?

There are people who know what they are talking about on the links I've given you.

If the investment isn't coming into the UK, its going to other plants in Europe.

And lets be honest here, especially with Airbus, Macron will be rubbing his hands if it all goes to Toulouse.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:16 pm

I don't usually do this, but I had a proper LOL moment while reading the comments from the Tory MEP.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:17 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cos car plants never close down ever?

There are people who know what they are talking about on the links I've given you.

If the investment isn't coming into the UK, its going to other plants in Europe.

And lets be honest here, especially with Airbus, Macron will be rubbing his hands if it all goes to Toulouse.

It can't. And that's why it's here.

It wouldn't be if they had a choice.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:21 pm

Hold on so Airbus have 25 sites in the UK equipped to build parts of airplanes and employ 14,000 staff to er build parts of planes.
If they should go there’ll be 25 sites equipped to build plane parts and 14000 trained staff that worked in those 25 sites.
So set up in competition to airbus who will be acquiring 25 new sites in Europe and acquiring and training 14,000 staff.
Simples

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:23 pm

Hi Lancaster,

"And your knowledge of EU procedures and vetos is, as suspected, rudimentary.

It would not kill you lot to actually do some research sometimes you know!"

Fair play to you for trying but I'm not sure many people have tried to understand how it all works. It's easier to read Daily Mail headlines.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:31 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cos car plants never close down ever?

They do lancs.

The Ford transit one did not to long ago. And there are many that have done the same. While we've been in the EU.....

But hey, as an EU nationalist you'll prefer to gloss over that fact.

We've heard exactly the same, prior to the referendum. Nissan, Toyota and Siemans all said "they would have to consider whether to continue production in the UK, if there was a vote to Leave.

They're all still here and happily remain. ( in fact announced further investment, if memory serves.) Plus, the UK plants are airbuses "most productive" according to one of their spokesmen today. So will they.

Where was the outcry when 10000 steel workers jobs were lost in Corby, while still in the EU? Jobs that could have been saved, if the government had been allowed to breach EU rules that stopped it supporting it.

Oh let's gloss over that as well eh?

Oh and let's gloss over the, literally , millions of manufacturing jobs that have been lost, while IN the EU. Yeah let's just gloss over all that and shout "daily mail, xenophobe, little Englander, 1950s, daily mail, Rees Mogg, Nazi, daily mail, Farage, don't know what you voted for, let's have a neverendum, daily mail"

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:34 pm

The key word in today's announcement is "could" pull out.

Project Fear Part 2 - the desperate tactic to stop brexit that common sense forgot.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:38 pm

Airbus were one of the voices of Project Fear and, as always, the french want the best for france and bollocxs to everyone else, European or otherwise. Personally, I wouldn't give a dead rat's a55 if they did go; lots of tax friendly ex- pat jobs for the Europhiles amongst them.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:43 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:They do lancs.

The Ford transit one did not to long ago. And there are many that have done the same. While we've been in the EU.....

But hey, as an EU nationalist you'll prefer to gloss over that fact.

We've heard exactly the same, prior to the referendum. Nissan, Toyota and Siemans all said "they would have to consider whether to continue production in the UK, if there was a vote to Leave.

They're all still here. Given the UK plant is airbuses "most productive" according to one of their spokesmen today. So will they.

Where was the outcry when 10000 steel workers jobs were lost in Corby, while still in the EU? Jobs that could have been saved, if the government had been allowed to breach EU rules that stopped it supporting it.

Oh let's gloss over that as well eh?

Oh and let's gloss over the, literally , millions of manufacturing jobs that have been lost, while IN the EU. Yeah let's just gloss over all that and shout "daily mail, xenophobe, little Englander, 1950s, daily mail, Rees Mogg, Nazi, daily mail, Farage, don't know what you voted for, let's have a neverendum, daily mail"

He also glossed over the, literally, millions of people who have died whilst we were IN the EU. ******* remoaner.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:49 pm

Cheers for the response Ringo, starting, Benny

- So we've learnt that car plants can close down, and that unprofitable steel plants can close down. So there is plenty of precedent for major industrial sites to shut down/relocate.

- When faced with uncomfortable truths, the default position isn't to argue, its to come out with soundbites that don't help save British jobs and industry (and don't do your argument any favours)

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:51 pm

And guys, if you are not already married, then this lady is for you

https://twitter.com/seanmcca/status/1010178462471028737" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:52 pm

I don't understand your question.

And your 2nd post is just plain stupid.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:55 pm

But there never is anything other than soundbites to counter Project reality.

Come on, just for a second think about it. I mean, what other thing would someone saying "You've just got to believe in it a bit more and it will all come out right" convince you that it was a good idea?

And that was a year ago, now its "its going to be bad, but not as bad as it could be"

This is genuinely serious now. How many companies in Burnley are thinking the same as Airbus?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:59 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:The chances of you reading the detailed explanations of what all this means are zero.

But I'll provide them anyway

https://twitter.com/HenryNewman/status/ ... 5426574336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 0444865536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi Lancs, I read your first sentence and then your second. I was surprised to see that your links are to something on twitter. When was twitter ever used for "detailed explanations" of anything?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:01 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:And guys, if you are not already married, then this lady is for you

https://twitter.com/seanmcca/status/1010178462471028737" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Without doubt she's the woman of their dreams but judging by Ringo's jovial postings and BennyD's bitter and twisted offerings I can guess which one pulled her and which one got blown out

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:01 pm

How much money will it take to relocate a big business abroad?

We're talking millions in redundancy payments alone.

Risky to say the least.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:04 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cheers for the response Ringo, starting, Benny

- So we've learnt that car plants can close down, and that unprofitable steel plants can close down. So there is plenty of precedent for major industrial sites to shut down/relocate.

- When faced with uncomfortable truths, the default position isn't to argue, its to come out with soundbites that don't help save British jobs and industry (and don't do your argument any favours)

Uncomfortable truths?

Why avoid the uncomfortable question?

Why was the government hand strung from helping save 10000 steel workers jobs in Corby?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:06 pm

just ban all British airlines from buying airbus

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:07 pm

When I heard this "news" earlier, I predicted, practically word for word what the "experts" on here would be frantically mashing into their keyboards

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:08 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cheers for the response Ringo, starting, Benny

- So we've learnt that car plants can close down, and that unprofitable steel plants can close down. So there is plenty of precedent for major industrial sites to shut down/relocate.)

So why the fuss now Lancs when another one "COULD" do the same?

As you say ,"there is plenty of precedent for major industrial sites to shut down/relocate."

So why the fuss now?

You are the one shooting yourself in the foot with your faux outrage. Pretending it's never happened before, yet at the same time admitting it's happened countless times before!

Or are you gonna do what your best at. Swerve and shout "daily mail or something"

Why the fuss now?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:08 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:But there never is anything other than soundbites to counter Project reality.

Come on, just for a second think about it. I mean, what other thing would someone saying "You've just got to believe in it a bit more and it will all come out right" convince you that it was a good idea?

And that was a year ago, now its "its going to be bad, but not as bad as it could be"

This is genuinely serious now. How many companies in Burnley are thinking the same as Airbus?

I know you don't know much about Burnley living in Lancaster, but Business parks are expanding like crazy.

The low pound has sent manufacturing through the roof.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:10 pm

Since we voted to Leave purchasing .managers orders books have reached a 40 year high.

But in lancs and the EU nationalists world it's irrelevant. They'd jump on the "coulds" of project fear 2, and shout daily mail as many times as possible.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:13 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:But there never is anything other than soundbites to counter Project reality.

Come on, just for a second think about it. I mean, what other thing would someone saying "You've just got to believe in it a bit more and it will all come out right" convince you that it was a good idea?

And that was a year ago, now its "its going to be bad, but not as bad as it could be"

This is genuinely serious now. How many companies in Burnley are thinking the same as Airbus?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tfboOt1bJcA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
How many companies in Burnley are thinking the same as Airbus?

I'm surprised you don't already know the answer to that! After all, you like to lecture people about not doing research while you , simultaneously try to portray your self as the knowing Oracle of all things brexit related.

" I have the habit of getting most things right" or something like that wasn't it you proclaimed?

So what are Burnley companies thinking your eminence? Why ask us mere mortals? You'll have the info at your finger tips.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:25 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Since we voted to Leave purchasing .managers orders books have reached a 40 year high.

But in lancs and the EU nationalists world it's irrelevant. They'd jump on the "coulds" of project fear 2, and shout daily mail as many times as possible.

Typo there Ringo:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -year-high" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:34 pm

Spijed wrote:Typo there Ringo:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -year-high" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apologies. Hold my hand up
.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:35 pm

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