Safe Standing

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:21 pm

I will admit that I didn't listen to the debate yesterday so if anyone who did can answer the below then it would be appreciated.

My main concerns around this would be:

1) Will safe standing only be allowed in part of the ground or would each stand be allowed to have a safe standing area?
2) Will a proportion of the away section have safe standing?
3) What would happen if there is more demand for standing tickets than availability?
4) In the event of 3 what would be done about those standing in seated areas because they couldn't get a standing ticket?

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:25 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Don’t think there was any mention of 10%. The discussion and what has to be pushed through in review is allowing the decisions to be made at club level.

The survey I completed for that Lady MP referred to 10% of ground capacity.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:07 pm

1) Will safe standing only be allowed in part of the ground or would each stand be allowed to have a safe standing area?
Rail seating can be in one section or in each stand, but no one section is being proposed to be larger than 7,500 capacity. So at Old Trafford, for example, they might have 2x 7,500 ends, plus an extra 2,000 standing spaces for away fans if demand is there.

Where the 10% figure came up in the survey had a lot of people asking questions, but that suggestions was dropped quickly and never mentioned in the debat.

2) Will a proportion of the away section have safe standing?
As above it depends on the home club, but I suspect (it’s a guess), that it will likely be 2,000 standing and 1,000 seating in a normal Premier League away end.

3) What would happen if there is more demand for standing tickets than availability?
If there is more demand on a regular basis then the home club would have to assess whether to install more rail seats, but for a one off game people would just have to buy tickets in a normal seated area and SIT.

4) In the event of 3 what would be done about those standing in seated areas because they couldn't get a standing ticket?[/quote]
I suspect that there will still be small pockets, and I mean very small in the first season or two until supply/demand is sorted, but it’s easier making a few handfuls sit down than a few thousand. season ticket removals or stadium bans will sort it.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:11 pm

Barry_Chuckle wrote:The survey I completed for that Lady MP referred to 10% of ground capacity.

Yes it did, and the MP received a lot of feedback on that figure. The figure pushed in the debate, which is what the EFL are working to, is no one section being larger than 7,500 capacity. That’s not to say that a club couldn’t have 2 sections or more, although we’ll have to see what the review says.

Eyres_11 · Post by **Eyres_11** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:20 pm

Nothing better than terracing

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:28 pm

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:30 pm

Unfortunately, what I see happening is this all being agreed in the home ends (where there isn't a major problem in most grounds, people know which 'seat' they need to stand or sit) but the status quo will remain in the away ends.

I've pretty much had to stop going to away games due to people standing in front of me.

I agree with safe standing btw.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:49 pm

I’m not so sure, Doug. The away fans are the problem really, as they stand every game. I can’t see them ignoring them.

I’m not sure BFC will do anything about it immediately though. The cost would be about £400K to redo the Cricket Field, for example, and they won’t atretch for some paint to sort the Bob Lord stand cladding out.

They’ll expect the fans to pay for it. :-/

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 pm

duplicate

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:05 am

dougcollins wrote:Unfortunately, what I see happening is this all being agreed in the home ends (where there isn't a major problem in most grounds, people know which 'seat' they need to stand or sit) but the status quo will remain in the away ends.

I've pretty much had to stop going to away games due to people standing in front of me.

I agree with safe standing btw.

Not so sure that would be the case. West Brom's attempts at a trial, knocked back by Tracey Crouch, included a standing area in the away section at The Hawthorns and the new Spurs ground has provision for a safe standing area within the away section.

I do think clubs are fully aware that away sections are important. It's a bit easier to sort the home fans out, as we've done at the Turf, with standers and sitters, but for away fans it is more difficult.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:15 am

The away end is where the issues lies, you don't know how it's going to pan out.

I do feel for the elder persons as traveling hours to grounds and legs and backs not being what they were, then to find out that they have to stand for hours it can be painful and may lead to a week of recovery to some.

If you pay for a seat like we used to in the eighties you used to go in the stands and fans who wanted to stand usually the majority went on the terraces happy days

That's why this is long over due we are in the 2018th century and we should have that choice.

Football as come along way majority of fans would rather stay seated where 30 years back before the Taylor investigation fans would rather stand it's done a full circle and needs sorting for many reasons.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:16 am

I hope its sorted by the 2018th Century. My back and legs will be well sore by then

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:33 am

My typo Claretmatt some will rip the shite out of anything

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:02 pm

ClaretTony wrote:It's a bit easier to sort the home fans out, as we've done at the Turf, with standers and sitters, but for away fans it is more difficult.

What makes it more difficult? Isn't it a lack of willpower, not difficulty of enforcement?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:56 pm

thatdberight wrote:What makes it more difficult? Isn't it a lack of willpower, not difficulty of enforcement?

Because right now away supporters are in one area. What makes it difficult is supporters refusing to sit in a seating area. It's as simple as that, and the sheer numbers has now made it impossible to police.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:23 pm

Surprised nobody has already mentioned the FA have put their weight behind safe standing in the PL & Championship. This could have more pull with politicians than a million fans signing petitions.
Here’s hoping.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:06 pm

As have one of the Liverpool supporters associations

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:14 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:As have one of the Liverpool supporters associations

That was my last point, Vegas. Politicians regard all fans as **** so don’t give a toss what they think.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm

piston broke wrote:That was my last point, Vegas. Politicians regard all fans as **** so don’t give a toss what they think.

Agree but every little helps !

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:30 pm

Wolves certainly pushing the agenda and the choices available

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... -standing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:35 pm

Red, shame not Gold

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:25 pm

I think we could do it in the bottom section of the stands but then it would have to be at the end of a season as season ticket holders would not be too happy to be told they are being relocated when they have sat there for a good few years so measures would have to be well thought out.
Could the Cricketfield Stand be made all standing then there's the issue with the away section as you would need to supply a percentage of seats.
There's been figures mentioned at an average away section being 3 thousand to equal 2 thousand standing 1 thousand seats.
Where would be the best stand at our ground do you think to accommodate safe standing
Or will we have different sections designated in different areas of stands
Probably depends on the demand

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:31 pm

The law needs to be changed before any of this can be used - but a revamped Cricketfield Stand is the obvious starting point for our club

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:21 pm

Genuine question - Is there any appetite from the board to renovate the ground, or certainly the Cricketfield, when it is predominantly used to house away fans?

We’ve only put in the disabled facilities at the behest of the PL.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:32 pm

Tsar - I strongly suspect that the club are waiting on a law change before any stand rebuilds/reconfigurations - and given that in our time in the Premier League we have spent around £20m on Improvements at the Turf (yes I know it is difficult to imagine but it is a rumoured £11m in the last financial year alone inc the disabled stands) I cannot see them being in too much of a hurry

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:42 pm

Chester Perry wrote:The law needs to be changed before any of this can be used - but a revamped Cricketfield Stand is the obvious starting point for our club

Totally agree

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:00 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Tsar - I strongly suspect that the club are waiting on a law change before any stand rebuilds/reconfigurations - and given that in our time in the Premier League we have spent around £20m on Improvements at the Turf (yes I know it is difficult to imagine but it is a rumoured £11m in the last financial year alone inc the disabled stands) I cannot see them being in too much of a hurry

£20M?? Wow. Certainly not doubting you, but where the hell has £20M gone? I appreciate there were changes behind the scenes for the Europa League, but I’d expect something more tangible, like a new stand, for £20M.

How much were the disabled facilities? £5M? Or has that gone up too with the issues?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:24 pm

Claretforever wrote:You can watch the full debate here:

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... fe5917515f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link CF but personally getting fed up now with watching/listening to those overpaid good for nothing crooks in parliament ex spelling more hot air on a subject that most intelligent thinking people would not have had “all seater” in the 1st place after the Hillsboro disaster.

Just do and not “say” anything more and simply give the go-ahead to the clubs who want to go ahead and implement safe standing.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:56 pm

Chester Perry wrote:The law needs to be changed before any of this can be used

It doesn't actually. There is literally nothing in the Football Spectators Act 1989 that mentions the top two divisions being required to have all-seater stadia.

The power to allow safe standing appears to be entirely in the hands of the incumbent Secretary of State by virtue of Section 11(1) of the Act. It is at his/her discretion that top two divisions continue to be required to have all-seater stadia while those in the divisions below may have terracing and safe-standing. That is why West Brom asked the Sports Minister directly to allow them to trial safe-standing rather than asking for a change in legislation.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:17 pm

The CFS could be easily converted to safe standing above the entry gangway. That would leave some, admittedly weather prone, seating at the front for those unable to stand. I am old enough, and extra-large enough, to find free standing for 90 minutes+ hard work and tiring, though I do now at my CFS 'seat' and away games, but leaning on a secure barrier in front of me would be great

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:05 pm

The obvious spot to trial is the JML

Its the least populated, least atmospheric and with by far the worse view.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:57 am

There is absolutely nothing stopping Burnley from converting the Cricket Field Stand, Or any other part of the ground, to rail seating right now. Providing the seats are left unlocked, so could be put down, or we went with the same type as Spurs which are never locked but spring up, and we don’t market them as standing spaces, it’s fine.

Spurs new stadium effectively has a 6,000 space terrace where fans will all stand, but until legislation changes they can only sell the area as seats, despite everyone in it likely standing all game.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:45 pm

I don't know if others who signed the petition got an email but this just came to me. Looks like it's being pushed

"As someone who has supported my work as the Shadow Sports Minister to improve the fan experience at football matches - I wanted to write to you about Safe Standing.

This issue has gone on for too long. Last year I held a consultation which thousands of football fans took part in.

Today, the Premier League season kicks off and I am setting the Government a deadline: I am demanding they change the law around Safe Standing by the end of the season. The Government must stop ignoring fans - I will keep pushing this issue, but I need your help.

Can you join me to spread the word on Twitter?Click here to tweet your supportThank you for reading this, enjoy the season!

Yours,

Rosena

Dr Rosena Allin-Khan MP
Shadow Sports Minister
Labour MP for Tooting "

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:47 pm

The problem of people standing in seating areas has caused us serious problems for a few seasons
Thoughtless people stand on the front row in stands si obstructing the views of fans behind them.
The solution is to allow fans who wish to stay seated to have the front 8 or 9 rows allowing the others to stand behind them.The stewards can sort this by organising fans as they come on
We have though had great cooperation from Elaine in getting front row tickets as standing. is a serious issue at many grounds.
Although have stopped going to many away games as we arnt paying to see someones back as gutless stewards dont enforce sitting.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:33 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:The solution is to allow fans who wish to stay seated to have the front 8 or 9 rows allowing the others to stand behind them.The stewards can sort this by organising fans as they come on.

It’s not. The solution is to have safe standing areas and seating areas.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:10 pm

I get cheesed off by the inevitable groups of p1ssed up oh so passionate fans who turn aggressive with you when you ask them to sit down. I nearly got smacked last season when I said what's the real issue here piles ?

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:35 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:The problem of people standing in seating areas has caused us serious problems for a few seasons
Thoughtless people stand on the front row in stands si obstructing the views of fans behind them.
The solution is to allow fans who wish to stay seated to have the front 8 or 9 rows allowing the others to stand behind them.The stewards can sort this by organising fans as they come on
We have though had great cooperation from Elaine in getting front row tickets as standing. is a serious issue at many grounds.
Although have stopped going to many away games as we arnt paying to see someones back as gutless stewards dont enforce sitting.

The all seating stadia laws took away any alternative to those who wish to stand at games, and they are many. Once upon a time, if you wanted to sit at a game you went in the Bob Lord, to stand you went on the Longside or Bee Hole. Just thinking back to those days gives you an idea of the sort of proportion we're looking at.
The return of standing safely in areas can only be to the benefit of everyone's enjoyment of the match day experience. I really hope this is given high priority by the Football authorities in England and as much resources as possible put into lobbying for change.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:45 am

bfcjg wrote:I get cheesed off by the inevitable groups of p1ssed up oh so passionate fans who turn aggressive with you when you ask them to sit down. I nearly got smacked last season when I said what's the real issue here piles ?

You’re obviously not a true supporter. Get a few bottles of buckfast in you, and hey presto!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:57 am

Information sent to all Premier League and Football League clubs from the Sports Grounds Safety Authority

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:42 am

Some of you have probably seen it doing the rounds on social media, but there’s a clip of Sheff Utd fans celebrating their late equaliser at Bournemouth.

As Sharp wheels away to celebrate, you can see around 20-30 Sheff Utd fans in the background fall forward, and by all accounts, there’s one fan badly injured currently in hospital with broken limbs.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:43 am

https://twitter.com/ryanhoppo8/status/1 ... 66080?s=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:10 am

Daily Mail reporting the return of safe standing in PL & Championship has been delayed until 2021.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:28 am

it says on my Leicester ticket 'Persistent standing is not prermitted'

really!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:08 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:Daily Mail reporting the return of safe standing in PL & Championship has been delayed until 2021.

Well that's nonsense because there is nothing to delay. Legislation hasn't changed.

lakedistrictclaret · Post by **lakedistrictclaret** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:22 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:Daily Mail reporting the return of safe standing in PL & Championship has been delayed until 2021.

It's 2021-22 " at the earliest".
A government spokesman has said " the independent review on standing at football found that more evidence is clearly needed before any change to the all-seater policy can be considered".
They're going to look at Celtic, and the Bundesliga.

They're just putting off having to make a decision.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:41 pm

I signed a petition on this recently and received an e-mail today from the Shadow Sports Minister stating if Labour return to government they will overturn the legislation and allow safe standing by the 2020/21 season.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:55 pm

Hi Mike Price,

As someone who has supported my work as the Shadow Sports Minister to improve the fan experience at football matches - I wanted to write to you about Safe Standing.

Last Thursday, the Government published their Safe Standing review. Despite Safe Standing being implemented safely in multiple leagues across the world, such as in Germany, Scotland and the USA, the review has concluded that more evidence is still required.

By rejecting the introduction of Safe Standing, the Government are disgracefully ignoring the clear demand by fans, supporters' groups and football clubs.

The EFL’s own survey concluded overwhelmingly that fans across the country would favour the option to stand safely at football matches – and now the Government are continuing to wilfully disregard the clear demand from the 94% of fans who would welcome the implementation of Safe Standing.

So I am confirming today, that if Labour return to Government in coming months we would overturn the all-seater policy. We would allow the introduction of Safe Standing areas for all clubs in the Premier League and EFL for the 2020/21 season.

I want to make it clear to the Government that fans cannot continue to be ignored - please help me by sharing your views on social media.

Thank you for reading this, best of luck for the rest of the season!

Best wishes,

Rosena

Dr Rosena Allin-Khan MP
Shadow Minister for Sport
Labour MP for Tooting

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm

claretburns wrote:I signed a petition on this recently and received an e-mail today from the Shadow Sports Minister stating if Labour return to government they will overturn the legislation and allow safe standing by the 2020/21 season.

To be fair at the last local elections our labour representative along with Julie Cooper stated they would do something about the problems with cars speeding up and down the bottom end of Barden Lane. So far nothing has happened. One and only time I'll ever vote Labour probably.