Colombia: A view from the opposition

!aiboforceN · Post by **!aiboforceN** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:16 pm

I have a number of colleagues from Argentina and Colombia.
They're some of the very best people I've ever worked with, highly skilled, lovely people with a great work ethic.

Their view of last night:

Pickford is an amazing keeper
Trippier needs a good thump for his cheating antics

Funny how things look through others' eyes

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:18 pm

What did they say when you said they need to be banned from any future World Cup?

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:19 pm

I'd say ask them about..... but frankly i don't know where to start with the litany of shithousery their fetid assortment came up with

!aiboforceN · Post by **!aiboforceN** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:39 pm

FactualFrank wrote:What did they say when you said they need to be banned from any future World Cup?

Staggeringly, Frank, Colombian TV commentary somehow made it seem like it was 50/50.
"England were more about the fighting than the playing. Colombia reacted" !!

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:42 pm

The most shithouse team in the tournament. They could have been playing anyone and I'd still be glad to see the back of them.

KeighleyClaret · Post by **KeighleyClaret** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:43 pm

What was Trippier supposed to have done then? Didn't see a thing apart from 10 Columbian players surrounding the ref every 3 minutes.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:The most shithouse team in the tournament. They could have been playing anyone and I'd still be glad to see the back of them.

This is when fan polarisation comes to the fore. Take Dele Alli. Any non Spurs supporter thinks he's a nasty cheating thug during the Premier league season, yet if he were to score the winner for England in the world cup final then all would be forgiven!

That's how it works. If England were to win the World cup playing like Colombia nobody would care.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:49 pm

Bit weird as they are a good team. I can only think that the occasion got to them and that they seriously missed James Rodriguez

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:52 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Bit weird as they are a good team. I can only think that the occasion got to them and that they seriously missed James Rodriguez

Tbf, on his day, he's one of the best players in the world, far better than any midfielder we have.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:54 pm

Columbia did a "Argentina" or "Uruguay" last night.

They were an absolute disgrace - it was all premeditated aswell. A deliberate tactic to try and wind up the England players to retaliate and reduce them to 10 men.
When they realised that the American ref could not handle it they upped their cheating and intimidation even more. They were exactly like many of the old Argentina and Uruguay teams of the past - animals.

The fact that their media think they were innocent is not really a surprise - these countries are very insular and again like Argentina fiercely patriotic. Plus I guess these antics are a lot more common place in South American qualifying and Coppa America so they genuinely think its just part of the game and as valid a tactic to win the game as anything else.

You have to wonder what the hell the officials and VAR are doing when you see one of the players clearly head butt a player ; one of their officials deliberately barge into an England player walking off the pitch ; one of their players trying to scuff the penalty spot whilst the other 10 players surround and barge the referee for a full 4 minutes etc etc.

The fact that only really Henderson retaliated was all due credit to the England players - they don`t really have any fiery players or hard nuts at the moment. As Ian Wright said after the game he would have been sent off...and the likes of Terry Butcher, Jack Charlton, Norman Hunter etc would have launched the Columbian players into the Volga.

northernpowerhouse · Post by **northernpowerhouse** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:00 pm

Fair play to them. If they think the best way to stop England is to foul us out of the game I'll take that as a compliment. It's just a shame the ref didn't deal with it properly. Strange tactics though. Once they started playing football they clearly had the better of us. If I was a Colombian I'd be furious at Pekerman.

The only thing that annoyed me was that coach barging into Sterling. What a ****! He must have been in his fifties and he's elbowing a young lad. Grow the **** up!

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:03 pm

KeighleyClaret wrote:What was Trippier supposed to have done then? Didn't see a thing apart from 10 Columbian players surrounding the ref every 3 minutes.

Did he say something to wind up Falcao in the first half when he was on the deck? Only thing i can think of

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:11 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote:Did he say something to wind up Falcao in the first half when he was on the deck? Only thing i can think of

What? After Falcoa did that ridiculous dive and throw himself to the floor when stood in front of Tripps?
Falcoa was a disgrace last night, another one for the golden dummy.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:12 pm

Ask them if it’s ok to kick chunks out of the penalty spot and harass the referee

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:22 pm

mybloodisclaret wrote:What? After Falcoa did that ridiculous dive and throw himself to the floor when stood in front of Tripps?
Falcoa was a disgrace last night, another one for the golden dummy.

Yes very strange reaction from Falcao. Disappointing from Colombia as they can play some good football when it suits them

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:23 pm

joey13 wrote:Ask them if it’s ok to kick chunks out of the penalty spot and harass the referee

Brought back memories of Hal Robson Kanu at Reading!

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm

F *ck ‘em! They’re off home.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:34 pm

Remember, Dele Alli ca be just as much of a cheat, or does that not count?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:40 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:F *ck ‘em! They’re off home.

Well said.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:40 pm

I thought England's 'game management' was pretty good yesterday. They didn't react to any of the nonsense from the Colombians and when we were winning 1-0 we played them at their own game, staying down after being caught etc. Not great to see but if you don't do it you're giving the teams that do an edge on you. We were savvier than previous England teams have been anyway.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:40 pm

Spijed wrote:Remember, Dele Alli ca be just as much of a cheat, or does that not count?

Doesn't count.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:41 pm

Spijed wrote:Remember, Dele Alli ca be just as much of a cheat, or does that not count?

Really ? What has Dele Alli done which can be compared to what Columbia did last night ?

The whole of the Columbia team and coaching staff were at it...hardly comparable to the odd dive for a penalty.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:42 pm

SammyBoy wrote:I thought England's 'game management' was pretty good yesterday. They didn't react to any of the nonsense from the Colombians and when we were winning 1-0 we played them at their own game, staying down after being caught etc. Not great to see but if you don't do it you're give the teams that do an edge on you. We were savvier than previous England teams have been anyway.

I think the team, as well as the commentators, were a bit too focussed on game management and possession football, and not focussed enough on scoring goals.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:48 pm

Columbia were disgraceful last night. Intimidating the referee appeared to be their only discernible tactic.

Still, joke's on them because if they'd gone at us like they did in the last 10 minutes they'd have had a great chance of progressing.

Now they're out. Good riddance. Shameful performance from them.

jtv · Post by **jtv** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:51 pm

SammyBoy wrote:I thought England's 'game management' was pretty good yesterday. They didn't react to any of the nonsense from the Colombians and when we were winning 1-0 we played them at their own game, staying down after being caught etc. Not great to see but if you don't do it you're give the teams that do an edge on you. We were savvier than previous England teams have been anyway.

Except that Walker insisted on trying to walk his cramp off rather than going down in a bundle to stop play

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:57 pm

jtv wrote:Except that Walker insisted on trying to walk his cramp off rather than going down in a bundle to stop play

Maybe he's been skiving game management class.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:00 pm

TVC15 wrote:Really ? What has Dele Alli done which can be compared to what Columbia did last night ?

The whole of the Columbia team and coaching staff were at it...hardly comparable to the odd dive for a penalty.

Like being a nasty player for a start, or is that all a misunderstanding?

Watch what he did to Kevin De Bruyne last season or some of his red cards.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:00 pm

Didn't quite see it like that myself Rowls. I thought when they were interested in having a match in the first twenty minutes we were streets ahead of them. They realised this and resorted to the tactics they did to stay in the game as long as possible. They then did what every team does if they are in with a chance of something with 10 minutes to go they threw the kitchen sink at us but it wasn't what I would call out footballing us it was just direct.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:01 pm

Spijed wrote:Like being a nasty player for a start, or is that all a misunderstanding?

Watch what he did to Kevin De Bruyne last season or some of his red cards.

How can we watch some of his red cards when he's only had one in his career?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:04 pm

Spijed wrote:This is when fan polarisation comes to the fore. Take Dele Alli. Any non Spurs supporter thinks he's a nasty cheating thug during the Premier league season, yet if he were to score the winner for England in the world cup final then all would be forgiven!

That's how it works. If England were to win the World cup playing like Colombia nobody would care.

Deli Alli...that is stretching it a bit far!

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:32 pm

Its coming Home and They are going Home. End of

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:59 pm

To be fair, we weren't blameless. Stones was lucky to get away with treading on Falcao, and Maguire and Lingard should have both been booked for diving.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:02 pm

Spijed wrote:Like being a nasty player for a start, or is that all a misunderstanding?

Watch what he did to Kevin De Bruyne last season or some of his red cards.

Ok - don’t let the facts get in the way of your dislike of a player eh.

To compare Alli to that disgraceful team of sh-itbags last night is a joke surely ?

What did he do to KDB that has got you so upset ? Was it as bad as what Otamendi does every week and what he did in every game in the World Cup ?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:07 pm

TVC15 wrote:Ok - don’t let the facts get in the way of your dislike of a player eh.

To compare Alli to that disgraceful team of sh-itbags last night is a joke surely ?

What did he do to KDB that has got you so upset ? Was it as bad as what Otamendi does every week and what he did in every game in the World Cup ?

He stood on KDB's ankle. I don't think Man city supporters were too impressed!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:18 pm

Spijed wrote:He stood on KDB's ankle. I don't think Man city supporters were too impressed!

Yes I remember - that was the same game Harry Kane did a 2 footed tackle on KDB isn’t it ?

Is Kane as bad as the Columbians aswell ?

Given how many times the likes of Fernandinho and others have been red carded it’s strange you seem to be comparing Alli to the Columbians. Is it because he always plays so well against Burnley ?
Everyone of those Columbian players cheated more last night than Alli has done in the whole of his career.

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:32 pm

The middle third of the game reminded me of our play off final against Stockport!

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:18 pm

No better example of why FIFA need to bring in a law which states that only the Captain can speak to the referee about decisions, any one else attempt it and it is a yellow card. Scuffing the penalty spot-straight red.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:02 pm

mickleoverclaret wrote:To be fair, we weren't blameless. Stones was lucky to get away with treading on Falcao, and Maguire and Lingard should have both been booked for diving.

I keep hearing / reading about Maguire’s “dive”. For me, it’s only really a dive if you try to claim a fk or pen. Sometimes players running at speed, dodging tackles etc lose their footing and just fall over. Maguire got straight to his feet and signalled “no foul” to the ref, so I don’t think you could call it simulation, as surely that involves simulating a foul, and why would anyone do that without claiming it?

Not sure what the actual laws are in this respect - could anyone enlighten me?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:09 pm

mdd2 wrote:No better example of why FIFA need to bring in a law which states that only the Captain can speak to the referee about decisions, any one else attempt it and it is a yellow card. Scuffing the penalty spot-straight red.

The games sanitised enough. The games got to have talking points for the mock rage types.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:41 pm

Can we safely assume spijed lost his argument here?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:48 pm

Spijed wrote:This is when fan polarisation comes to the fore. Take Dele Alli. Any non Spurs supporter thinks he's a nasty cheating thug during the Premier league season, yet if he were to score the winner for England in the world cup final then all would be forgiven!

That's how it works. If England were to win the World cup playing like Colombia nobody would care.

Not true, some of us would care.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:52 pm

MDWat wrote:Can we safely assume spijed lost his argument here?

In what way?

Using the KDB example it shows players of opposition teams will do whatever they can to win the game, including using dirty tactics. English players are no different.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:00 pm

Well, suggesting we look at Alli’s career of red cards, when he’s had one, isn’t the greatest argument.

Colombia were a set of dirty thugs last night. England weren’t. Alli especially wasn’t.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:01 pm

mickleoverclaret wrote:To be fair, we weren't blameless. Stones was lucky to get away with treading on Falcao, and Maguire and Lingard should have both been booked for diving.

The Lingard one is interesting. My first thought was penalty. 1st replay I thought dive. Then I realised, Lingard was trying to dive, and in doing so, actually got his ankle caught under the Colombian’s knee as he went to ground, causing him to go over in what looks like a very “unnatural” manner. Look closely, and it actually should have been a penalty.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:03 pm

As Ian Wright said after the game he would have been sent off...and the likes of Terry Butcher, Jack Charlton, Norman Hunter etc would have launched the Columbian players into the Volga.

Would have to have been a mighty kick to reach the Volga from Moscow

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:36 pm

MDWat wrote:Well, suggesting we look at Alli’s career of red cards, when he’s had one, isn’t the greatest argument.

Colombia were a set of dirty thugs last night. England weren’t. Alli especially wasn’t.

Oh.... For the games with a bit of bite to them! Maguire by the way had a great game a good physical presence but raising his hands for var

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:37 pm

What's all that about????

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:00 am

Roosterbooster wrote:The Lingard one is interesting. My first thought was penalty. 1st replay I thought dive. Then I realised, Lingard was trying to dive, and in doing so, actually got his ankle caught under the Colombian’s knee as he went to ground, causing him to go over in what looks like a very “unnatural” manner. Look closely, and it actually should have been a penalty.

Whether it's a penalty or not, none of what you say is relevant. What makes it a penalty is what the defender does. Does the defender trip Lingard? If Lingard, deliberately or otherwise, puts his foot in the wrong place and trips over someone else's feet, then that's not a foul by the defender. Nothing Lingard does can turn the defender's actions from fair play to foul play.

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:28 am

Greenmile wrote:I keep hearing / reading about Maguire’s “dive”. For me, it’s only really a dive if you try to claim a fk or pen. Sometimes players running at speed, dodging tackles etc lose their footing and just fall over. Maguire got straight to his feet and signalled “no foul” to the ref, so I don’t think you could call it simulation, as surely that involves simulating a foul, and why would anyone do that without claiming it?

Not sure what the actual laws are in this respect - could anyone enlighten me?

He dived and then realised it was an awful dive and wouldn't fool anyone, very lucky not to be booked.
As for the Lingard one, amazing what lengths people will go to to try and overlook blatant cheating from someone just because they happen to be wearing an England shirt.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:36 am

mickleoverclaret wrote:He dived and then realised it was an awful dive and wouldn't fool anyone, very lucky not to be booked.
As for the Lingard one, amazing what lengths people will go to to try and overlook blatant cheating from someone just because they happen to be wearing an England shirt.

Or a Burnley shirt.