ARTICLE: Have Burnley ditched moves for Dawson and Jay Rod?

[ashtonlongsider]

I hope Burnley continue to operate with a degree of common sense. I think the initial offer of £25 million for the pair was more than reasonable. WBA have always been a difficult club for us to negotiate with but I'd be surprised if we didn't end up with either or both of these players come the 9th August.

[claret10]

"Have Burnley ditched moves for Dawson & Jay Rod" - answer is no and i expect the latter to be a claret (again) pretty soon

[South West Claret.]

I hope Burnley continue to operate with a degree of common sense. I think the initial offer of £25 million for the pair was more than reasonable. WBA have always been a difficult club for us to negotiate with but I'd be surprised if we didn't end up with either or both of these players come the 9th August.

I agree whilst I think Dawson would be a good fit Im still not sure about JR, all a bit cat and mouse these negotiations so will see what happens in the end.

[bobinho]

£25 million for the pair apparently a few weeks ago - now being reported that we'll go up to 30 but they want 40.

I hope we don’t pay that. 30 maybe, but 40 is too much. Anyway, with how things are, the clubs GOTTA be trusted on this...

[claret10]

I agree whilst I think Dawson would be a good fit Im still not sure about JR, all a bit cat and mouse these negotiations so will see what happens in the end.

From what I have been told Jay is "any day now".....not sure whether or not Dawson is included but looking at SkyBet he looks to be off to West Ham

[Steddyman]

According to the mirror we still want them and will go to 35 million.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... l-12856021" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ClaretTony]

I hope we don’t pay that. 30 maybe, but 40 is too much. Anyway, with how things are, the clubs GOTTA be trusted on this...

We don't get everything right, but generally I think we can trust the club on most things.

[Rowls]

Has the Mail, for once, got it right?

Haha - cheeky.

The Daily Mail have got an awful lot right sine Dyche took over and they're faithfully writing up an article for us here.

We all know the game (well, most of us do) and this is a part of it.

They'll be sold if WBA want or need to sell them and they most probably do. It's not about if they got sold, it's just about who they get sold to and the negotiations are a one-way street towards that.

[jurek]

I think the original post stated that we'd moved on and had identified a couple of players
to fit the roles Dawson and Jayrod would have filled and have begun to open a dialogue, whatever that means.

Be interesting to know who these players might be?

[Lancasterclaret]

Mail has a good sports section to be fair.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Still believe that Dawson will be a Claret before window closes.
WHU have absolutely no chance however much they offer

[Jakubclaret]

Agent spin to try to break the deadlock probably thrashing out terms behind the scenes, signing 1 would be more plausible I'd anticipate more competition regarding jay rod hence the doubts for potential signature.

[Funkydrummer]

Odd response because they're playing hardball because the obviously don't want to sell, should they just roll over and hand us the players for free?

Don't be ridiculous, you know exactly what I mean.

[claretbob]

I thought they were called Steven Defour and Robbie Brady. Stop panicking, Dyche knows best!

[claretdj]

Our scouting network needs some serious attention, we should be buying players from all over Europe n not just be stuck in English market paying these massively over inflated prices for bang average premier league players. Utc

[South West Claret.]

Our scouting network needs some serious attention, we should be buying players from all over Europe n not just be stuck in English market paying these massively over inflated prices for bang average premier league players. Utc

I understand your bit about foreign players but that can bring other problems like culture, home sick and more that we are probably not aware of.

Also If you want a proven player like Defour then they won't come cheap.

[Cleveleys_claret]

I understand your bit about foreign players but that can bring other problems like culture, home sick and more that we are probably not aware of.

Also If you want a proven player like Defour then they won't come cheap.

Remind me how much Defour cost? Not btrying to be awkward with you but the market we are in always carries a little risk

[South West Claret.]

Remind me how much Defour cost? Not btrying to be awkward with you but the market we are in always carries a little risk

I was referring to his wages.

[Cleveleys_claret]

I was referring to his wages.

Which still fell in line with our budget.

[Cleveleys_claret]

What I am trying to get at is that the players are out there but in the market we are shopping there is always an element of risk. With Defour it was his injury record. With Grosicki who we chose not to sign it was gambling issues. The players are there it is just how much we are willing to take a chance/ calculated risk.

[South West Claret.]

Which still fell in line with our budget.

I had already assumed that.

I was answering claretj's point in post 65 above about getting players cheaper in Europe.

[Reecey1987]

Nixon seems to think we havnt turned our attentions were still after dawson and jay rod and would also like a powerfull winger

[Wokingclaret]

Remind me how much Defour cost? Not btrying to be awkward with you but the market we are in always carries a little risk

Defour was a big risk, worth it now of course. But it wasn't going too well during the last third of his first season

[piston broke]

If we are even offering the figures quoted for Dawson we are definitely playing 3 at the back next season. Clarets cannot afford that money for a benchwarmer and I do see Mee and Tarks staying.
It is the flavour of the time and gives a tremendous amount of flexibility.

[Goobs]

If we are even offering the figures quoted for Dawson we are definitely playing 3 at the back next season. Clarets cannot afford that money for a benchwarmer and I do see Mee and Tarks staying.
It is the flavour of the time and gives a tremendous amount of flexibility.

OR we are in Europe so essentially need 2 very good teams in order to be able to fight on both fronts?

[piston broke]

OR we are in Europe so essentially need 2 very good teams in order to be able to fight on both fronts?

Fair point but will any one of the three be happy to be EL starter only?

[tiger76]

I think the original post stated that we'd moved on and had identified a couple of players
to fit the roles Dawson and Jayrod would have filled and have begun to open a dialogue, whatever that means.

Be interesting to know who these players might be?

Could be a tactic to let WBA know we have other options on the table,and force their hand as regards selling one or the other.
Good that we are not putting all our eggs in one basket,this has cost us in the past.
Dawson is looking more likely than Jay,but all most of us know is what we read in the media.

[Goobs]

Fair point but will any one of the three be happy to be EL starter only?

Probably not but nothing is set in stone and if someone gets injured or suspended then it's up to them to make the shirt theirs, just like Pope, Westwood, Barnes, JBG and others have done over the last couple of seasons.

[aggi]

If we are even offering the figures quoted for Dawson we are definitely playing 3 at the back next season. Clarets cannot afford that money for a benchwarmer and I do see Mee and Tarks staying.
It is the flavour of the time and gives a tremendous amount of flexibility.

Kevin Long played nearly half the premier league games last season and that was with him being very much a reserve option and dropped as soon as one of the players he replaced was fit.

With 3 centre-halves it would be easy to see each one playing 30 games (allowing for injuries/suspensions) if we progressed in Europe.

If we were planning to play 3 at the back we'd need to sign 2 new defenders.

[mdd2]

Do we not have 4 who can play CB already. C Taylor has been used as CB hasn't he? Also Dunne although maybe a bit too soon for him

[BigChaCha]

If we are even offering the figures quoted for Dawson we are definitely playing 3 at the back next season. Clarets cannot afford that money for a benchwarmer and I do see Mee and Tarks staying.

I don't think you quite understand how football works!

[Vegas Claret]

35 million now is the equivalent of 15 2 years ago, stupid prices in the PL. If we don't want to pay those prices then we need to drastically improve our foreign scouting system

[starting_11]

35 million now is the equivalent of 15 2 years ago, stupid prices in the PL. If we don't want to pay those prices then we need to drastically improve our foreign scouting system

35 million now is 35 million now.

It's far too much for us to be spending on 2 players (one of whom sounds like a knobhead) and will both probably want £100k a week.

Look elsewhere please. Neither are better than what we have now.

[randomclaret2]

How much ought we to be spending on 2 players who are better than what we have now. ?

[Goobs]

35 million now is 35 million now.

It's far too much for us to be spending on 2 players (one of whom sounds like a knobhead) and will both probably want £100k a week.

Look elsewhere please. Neither are better than what we have now.

[DCWat]

35 million now is 35 million now.

It's far too much for us to be spending on 2 players (one of whom sounds like a knobhead) and will both probably want £100k a week.

Look elsewhere please. Neither are better than what we have now.

Why does he sound like a knob head?

[piston broke]

I don't think you quite understand how football works!

Well explain it to me.

[Devils_Advocate]

Do we not have 4 who can play CB already. C Taylor has been used as CB hasn't he? Also Dunne although maybe a bit too soon for him

Robbie Brady once played CB for his U15 Sunday league team and Sam Vokes played CB for his Cubs team. With your 2 above that gives us 7 CBs which is far too many so lets forget about Dawson and offload Mee the moneygrabber

[ElectroClaret]

....and will both probably want £100k a week.

[Steddyman]

Nixon seems to think we havnt turned our attentions were still after dawson and jay rod and would also like a powerfull winger

I like the sound of that. We do need a powerful winger.

[randomclaret2]

Wonder if it's Antonio ?

[mkmel]

It was rumoured a few weeks ago that we could be interested in Michail Antonio of West Ham
He is powerful and pacy and can play as a winger or a wing back
And yes he is on megabucks so it probably won't happen

[Long Time Lurker]

£25m was a very fair opening offer when you take everything into account. £30m would be really pushing the boat out for this pair and anything over that would be far too much in my opinion.

I can see why the club might have placed the pair of them at the top of their shopping list for the current window. We've had an ongoing interest in both of them for quite a while now, with a previous attempt to sign Dawson and our obvious past association with Jay. So our homework box will have been ticked in both of their cases.

With the relegation of WBA we might have considered them as targets who were up for a quick and easy grab, but things obviously haven't turned out that way.

Including Wells to nudge a deal for the pair over the line was a possibility I alluded to previously, but with the definite statement he made about wanting to knuckle down and fight for his place I would discount that. Although, I would have liked to have seen less "what is good for me" and more "what is good for the team" in that statement.

I don't think he has been given enough on the pitch time to show what he can do at this level, but booking a first team place has a lot to do with a good team attitude and a firm commitment to the shared cause. How a player responds to not playing is an important consideration that mirrors how we play on the pitch; in the sense that what the players do off the ball is just as important as what they do on the ball.

I still think Wells has the potential to be a good player for us and a fresh start, followed by another 6 or 12 months for everyone to evaluate the ongoing situation, would be okay in my books.

But who could we move on to?

The next couple of posts will be long winded, who would have guessed it, but I'm going to bundle together some names for each position to generate discussion about players we could possibly consider.

[Long Time Lurker]

Moving on from Jay Rod

If none of our strikers are set to leave in this window Jay could represent a very expensive luxury in terms of rounding out our squad depth. I would rather we spent some of our money on a No10 to back up and challenge Jeff.

Jay could play in a No10 role, but I can't see him offering us any more than playing Barnes or JBG in that position. For the money WBA are rumoured to be asking I would expect a player that represents a considerable step up on what we already have. A player that offered something similar to what we already have for a much lower transfer fee than WBA are rumoured to be asking for Jay could be a reasonable next step move.

Now that Armstrong and Reid have moved to new clubs I think Conor Hourihane could be the next best shout for an energetic No10. He has a pretty good engine, retains possession well and he can chip in with goals and assists. His forward effectiveness has been compromised a bit at Aston Villa, because he has had to contribute more defensively to pick up the slack of other players. He could also offer us another option for set piece deliveries.

Villa are obviously in the financial quagmire and it doesn't seem to be a case of will they sell any of their players but which players will they sell. The current transfer speculation appears to be focussed on Grealish, Chester, Kodjia and McCormack being the first to leave. However, I personally think that Conor would be a much better fit for us than Grealish in terms of playing style and his potential price tag. Strengthening our Irish contingent wouldn't be a bad move either, we have done extremely well with players from the Emerald Isle.

Villa will have to pay another wage bill in a couple of weeks so I would expect to see some outgoing transfer movement from them. The longer they go without selling the harder it will be for them to get a good price as the clubs interested in their players watch the pooling blood in the water. If the first of those transfers is Grealish the influx of funds will put them in a stronger negotiating position for other player sales.

I'm not sure how the departure of Steve Round, and the subsequent shifting of full transfer dealing control to Steve Bruce, has changed things. I would consider making an upfront offer of £5m - £6m for Conor while they are struggling to come to terms with their cash flow over the short term. Villa have three midfielders who could step up and replace Conor if needs must, but they have far fewer options to replace Chester. Selling a midfielder or two would appear to be the best move they can make to raise funds in this window without severely compromising their squad.

They can keep Lansbury.

We can always look at adding a No10 with flair, who doesn't look to retain possession and support the midfield, or another striker in the next window. Looking six months down the line new options could open up for us as future developments change who is available and what we need, providing that we still have money left to spend.

[Long Time Lurker]

Moving on from Dawson

I think it's obvious WBA aren't willing to let Dawson move on for anything less than an extortionate amount of money in this window. Their resolve is probably being bolstered by the fact that they have been in a position similar to this before. Dawson is unhappy and he puts in a transfer request, the source of his unhappiness is resolved, he signs a new contract and goes back to giving 100% for the team. WBA have the security of having Dawson on a long contract so I can see them sticking to their guns and holding him to it or possibly restoring his wages with a new contract. Outside of an exorbitant bid it looks like he might stay, but the next window could see everything change in line with the performance of WBA in the Championship.

So who could we look at as an alternative?

Rob Holding and Calum Chambers, the bromance brothers, have signed new contracts with Arsenal which would make permanent moves for either of them surprising.

Bournemouth are rumoured to be in for Liam Moore for a figure that could turn easily out to be in the £10m-£15m range, which is a hefty sum and he has played predominantly on the right of a CB pair which isn't ideal for us.

Alfie Mawson would command a sizeable fee and even though he is a good player I don't think he would be worth it.

Ben Gibson would fall into the same sizeable fee category, his experience playing on the left of a back two would be very welcome along with his talent for distribution. However, I think he could improve on his defensive game which could be seen as a blessing or a curse depending on how he develops. Definitely one for us to consider if he could be picked up for around £15m, but I suspect Middlesborough will be wanting more if they are open to letting him go.

Some rumours have linked us to James Collins on a short term 1 yr contract. He wouldn't be my first choice, but I could see the wisdom of adding him to the squad as a better than nothing option. I'm not implying that he is a bad player, just that we should be looking for someone a little younger as a long term addition to the squad.

As a stop gap fourth choice, while we regroup and look towards making a more suitable signing in the next window, he could constitute a viable option. His wages over the short term shouldn't be a concern, but he would fill up one of the valuable slots in our limited 25 man squad. I suppose that we could always send him out on loan if a more suitable long term player became available in the Winter window.

West Ham have recently added Diop to their squad and they are rumoured to be looking for another CB addition. Then again they are rumoured to be linked with everyone including Zqhicghjkhfoih the interstellar five legged ace from the planet Zog. Another defender would limit the potential playing time of Declan Rice who did okay for them last season. Although they could shift him up to defensive midfield this season. Taking his recent contract rejection into account I could see him as a target for us, but West Ham don't have a firm grasp on reality and I could easily image them placing a ludicrous valuation on him instead of a "one for the future prospect" price.

Hegazi, no thankyou.

We were supposedly linked with Joe Worrall in the last window and while he is a good age he didn't pull up any trees with his Championship performances last season. That would indicate the transfer fee attributed to demands of Forest last season were very excessive. At somewhere between £6m and £10m he might still be a viable option.

I haven't heard any transfer rumours attached to Shaun Hutchinson from Millwall, but to my eye he has a playing style that is very similar to Ben Mee. Obviously, he can't be compared to Ben in terms of his ability level, but he was excellent for Millwall throughout last season and he deservedly picked up their player of the year award.

Millwall just added Murray Wallace to their CB ranks which might have created some wiggle room to support a move by Shaun. As a low cost addition to fill the fourth slot CB position he might be worth a closer look. However, the Championship clubs seem to be increasingly focussed on price gouging any EPL clubs that express an interest in their players which could mean a price higher than the £2m to £4m that I would attach to him.

[Long Time Lurker]

Moving on to a Powerful Winger

I still think we should cast a glance at Steven Zuber who did okay for Switzerland in the World Cup.

He was on the bench for Hoffenheim quite a bit last season, but I don't think that was entirely down to his playing contributions. I watched quite a bit of the Bundesliga last season and Steven looked solid in his performances, even at left back. Hoffenheim hit a bad run and he lost his place to new signing Schulz. Their results picked up and he never really got much of a look in after that. He was probably a casualty of a "sticking with what is working" approach by the manager. However, I think the upturn in their performance had more to do with the adjustments they made to their defence at that time than the Zuber-Schulz switch.

I don't think he would walk into a first team slot, which is a good thing, but he would make a quality addition to the squad. In this window Hoffenheim have brought in two new left wingers (Bittencourt and Grifo) along with a new left back (Brenet). All three of these players look like starting additions so Zuber could find first team opportunities a lot harder to come by than last season if he decides to stick around.

I was happy to hear the rumours linking us to Joe Bryan at the start of this window and if they were to resurface I would be equally happy, although like anything it depend on the price.

Antonio would be over priced, over paid and probably spend more time in the injury clinic than he would playing. Which accounts for his time at West Ham, although he is a quality player on his day.

The main problem is that he seems to favour playing on the right and we are well covered in that area. What we really need is another left winger.

[randomclaret2]

Could you provide a summary of your posts for those of us with limited attention spans ?

[Long Time Lurker]

Could you provide a summary of your posts for those of us with limited attention spans ?

Nope, if you're not interested in reading them just ignore them.

[claretspice]

Strikes me that this is a bit of a "no-news" story. We won't have given up on Dawson or Rodriguez, but equally with barely a month until the window closes, we'd be negligent not to have other irons in the fire. Every club has a prime target plus one or two other targets that they're working on simultaneously.

In terms of the winger that Nixon obliquely alludes to, it could be someone like Antonio, but whilst I thought he was "one that got away" 3-4 years ago when he went to Forest just as we were signing Sordell, I think the time has gone now. As others have said, he's right sided, and he's begun to pick up injuries in the last year or so, and he's getting to the stage where a player of his explosiveness might be past his best. One interesting name to chuck in - Alireza Jahanbakhsh, of AZ Alkmaar and Iran. We've been linked with him fairly seriously before, he's had a good year in Holland and a decent world cup. His was the name that occurred to me first when I saw references on here to us being interested in "an exciting winger" who, at that time, was "still in the world cup". Renowned for scoring goals, and working hard.

[Paul Waine]

Thought I'd copy/paste a post I first posted on 4th May. I'm not sure how many read the post back then. I guess some would have read the first part and then moved on. The key things are Mike Garlick's comments on recruitment of players, based on his experience as head of an "global recruitment firm." Mike explains why Burnley have focussed on mainly UK based players and the key criteria in recruiting for Burnley FC.

I've underlined the key sentences.

Mike Garlick - Burnley FC

Excellent article in today's Times (4th May 2018):

Don’t give more money to big six, says Burnley chairman

Mike Garlick says a TV deal cash grab would spell the end of smaller clubs’ dreams

These are historic times at Burnley: they are poised to play in Europe for the first time in 50 years and to achieve their highest league finish since the early 1970s, but the club’s chairman Mike Garlick fears that moves to give the “big six” more TV money could end such “unscripted drama” unfolding in the future.

Burnley have the smallest turnover and wage bill in the top flight apart from those sides promoted last season, yet are virtually guaranteed seventh place and Europe — and could even overtake Arsenal, whom they meet on Sunday.

Next month is the Premier League’s annual meeting, where its executive chairman Richard Scudamore wants a resolution to demands of the “big six” — Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur and the two Manchester clubs — for a greater share of the overseas TV money.

Garlick is among those opposed, saying: “The balance we have now means Burnley can beat the champions Chelsea on the opening day.

“I just hate to think that the balance is upset. If you give the bigger clubs a load more money it’s bound to have an effect on the competitiveness of the league. You only need to look at Europe — Spain, Germany, where Bayern Munich have won it the last six years. Is that what we want?

“Surely the attraction of our league is that five or six teams could win the Premier League, and on the day the other 14 can beat one of the top six. That adds to the unscripted drama of it. If people know what’s going to happen they are going to turn their TV sets off.”

Garlick, born within sight of Turf Moor, is an out-and-out fan: one who has travelled to support England in every World Cup since 2002, though he has decided against Russia this summer because of the security situation.

Sitting in the Shoreditch offices of the global recruitment firm he founded in 1989, he admits that Burnley being in Europe is the stuff of fantasy, built on team collectiveness, with an excellent manager in Sean Dyche at the core.

“We were last in Europe in 1966-67, reached the quarter-finals of the Fairs Cup and I was aged five,” he says. “I didn’t see it, and I never thought I’d see European football at Turf Moor. It’s ironic because all our fans are chanting, ‘We are all going on a European tour,’ and Burnley was one of the biggest Brexit towns . . .

“I think we pay our players quite well. Our wages have gone up, so what we spend on wages might keep you in the Premier League but no one was expecting us to be seventh and in Europe. There’s less variance from the lower wages to the higher wages in our squad, where at other clubs you might have people on 25 grand a week and others on 125 grand. I don’t like the sound of that. That would cause us big problems.

“In the programme notes for the last time we were in the FA Cup final — 1962 against Tottenham — it says Burnley’s strength is its collectiveness. We never really had superstars then and the same is true today. Jimmy Robson, who played in that final, worked down the pit. Most of the lads in the early Sixties had part-time jobs, four or five of them down the mine. They are great stories from the past but we have to keep looking forward, we don’t want to be this romantic little club that always looks back.”

Garlick has introduced the rigour of the recruitment industry to signing players, a tactic that has led to the club focusing on those playing in Britain.
“Our recruitment team prefers to keep it focused on things that are easily accessible to us,” he says. “In terms of personal characteristics, what they do when they are off the pitch? Do they go off to the casino or home to their wives?

“That detail is really important and it’s a lot easier to do that and reference people in the UK or Ireland. Who are his last five managers, sporting directors and chairmen, and speak to them all. I’m in recruitment so that’s what I do, it’s my bread and butter. If they have bad habits we don’t want them, and for those in Germany or Spain and so on it’s just harder to get that real data.”

Garlick laughs when Joey Barton, whose reputation went before him when he arrived, is mentioned. “He’s a great player and if you can manage him then he’s great to have on your side. His past was mixed, but at least we knew that and then could make a decision.”

Garlick admits it was hard to stick to his guns when the latest TV deal riches arrived last season, with fans pushing for signings and clubs asking “crazy money”. “Everyone was going bonkers. You have to find that balance. We are not billionaires, we can’t bail the club out by saying here’s another £10 million or £20 million every year. We can put a bit in but it’s not of that ilk.”

Burnley boast four England internationals and Dyche’s name is constantly linked with managerial vacancies. Garlick hopes that a new contract agreed in January and Burnley’s set-up will stop his head from being turned.

“Sean has been here five years now and he’s always going to get attention because he’s being doing very well, but I hope he’s here for the next five years.

“One thing he has got with us is his ability to shape his infrastructure. He has not got someone else telling him who to recruit, it’s his decision.”

The stage is set at Turf Moor: the Premier League will remain the priority next season but do not rule out some more drama, this time in Europe.


EDIT: Changed the subject heading of this excellent report on Mike Garlick and Burnley FC.

Why? This is a "must read" article about our club. It provides fantastic insights into our Chairman's approach to developing Burnley FC. It explains how Mike Garlick's skills as a recruitment professional brought Sean Dyche to Burnley FC - and how our player recruitment policy and wage structure is critical to our success.

It appears most people missed this post under the original subject line: "Mike Garlick, tv money and recruitment." There are 9 posts and a little over 1,000 "views" - whereas Gerrard in at Ibrox has 44 posts and more views.

I find myself in the odd position of needing to "bump" this thread - so that posters don't miss the report.

In a few weeks time the transfer window will be open. Mike Garlick's approach to player recruitment will be debated once more on this site. The above report is a "must read" if we are to comment on and debate the club's transfer policy.

UTC