Possible General Election who would you vote for

[CoolClaret]

No surprise there - they have just signed up a bunch of your alt-right heroes.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... into-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Except that Count Dankula & PJW have both on numerous occasions denounced the alt-right and it's ideology and infact refuse to do interviews with mainstream journalists without having a live video onto their respective YouTube channels so they can't possibly be misinterpreted/falsely quoted...

https://twitter.com/CountDankulaTV/stat ... 69219?s=09" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^ check that out if you don't believe me

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't believe you, cos you are talking utter shite.

[ClaretMoffitt]

No surprise there - they have just signed up a bunch of your alt-right heroes.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... into-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"linked to alt-right"



Typical cowardly Guardian headline.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Except that Count Dankula & PJW have both on numerous occasions denounced the alt-right and it's ideology and infact refuse to do interviews with mainstream journalists without having a live video onto their respective YouTube channels so they can't possibly be misinterpreted/falsely quoted...

https://twitter.com/CountDankulaTV/stat ... 69219?s=09" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^ check that out if you don't believe me

And Sargon, the fact that these guys get called alt right is the exact reason I just laugh when the same sorts of people call it me. Its a joke.

[Imploding Turtle]

"linked to alt-right"



Typical cowardly Guardian headline.

PJW is literally a ******* editor at Infowars. And thinks dozens of six year old who got shot to bits was a hoax.


Edit:it actually says that in the Guardian article

[evensteadiereddie]

It's just a polite way of calling you a ****, Muff. Don't flatter yourself, lad.

[bfcjg]

Genuinely don't know. I'd have to see which manifesto would be best for my family and if it would actually be put into place.

[thatdberight]

Genuinely don't know. I'd have to see which manifesto would be best for my family and if it would actually be out into place.

I'd stick to question 1 as the answer to question 2 is "No" for all parties.

[ClaretMoffitt]

PJW is literally a ******* editor at Infowars. And thinks dozens of six year old who got shot to bits was a hoax.


Edit:it actually says that in the Guardian article

Yeah, hes a bit of a conspiracy nut compared to the other two, granted. But he isn't alt right.

[If it be your will]

Labour. Without hesitation.

[Stayingup]

I could never vote for them because in the 64 years that I have been alive they have never put forward any policy that benefited the working classes more that they benefited the classes that they feel they more naturally represent, and I don't believe that they ever will. Is that clear enough for you.

The working classes? Your in a time warp you are. Who are the working classes now?

And by the way your they have introduced good tax reforms quite recently that have benefied the lower paid.

[Stayingup]

I’d vote for labour, mainly because it will be well interesting for a few years.

Yep.it will be very interesting when they bankrupt the country as they tend to do

[ClaretMoffitt]

The working classes? Your in a time warp you are. Who are the working classes now?

And by the way your they have introduced good tax reforms quite recently that have benefied the lower paid.

The people in/from towns like ours who are working 40-50 hour weeks for sub-22k

[Imploding Turtle]

Yep.it will be very interesting when they bankrupt the country as they tend to do

We still doing that thing where we blame Gordon Brown for the global economic meltdown caused by neoliberals across the west giving banks free rein to gamble with our money?

[Damo]

Conservative

[Lancasterclaret]

Probably a good idea to drop the "and Unionist party" bit of it to be honest.

[CrosspoolClarets]

If held now, Corbyn.

[Lancasterclaret]

You think your house and your pension pot would be safe under a Brexit under Corbyn?

Fair play mate, but I'm not sure that is wise.

He'll have to get the money from somewhere

[Imploding Turtle]

Who else is he going to vote for? It's either Labour or Tories for almost all of us because we only live in a pretend democracy with FPTP.

[CrosspoolClarets]

To clarify, my wealth, such little that I have, would be positioned accordingly first. Gold, foreign currency and housing basically. Can't do much with the latter - I do need to live somewhere.

The civil service would benefit from an anti-establishment shock. The north would benefit from infrastructure. The Tories would benefit from a good kicking. It's not all a downside with Corbyn.

I'm slightly right of centre so if the likes of me is thinking that, May is in deep deep trouble.

[Lancasterclaret]

No, its not even close to being a downside with Corbyn, its just that the economic plans he has are workable under a No Brexit scenario, but not even remotely sensible under a Brexit scenario.

To be honest, as long as the CM and SM are kept by Labour (and they will be) then its probably time to have a fresh broom.

[nil_desperandum]

The working classes? Your in a time warp you are. Who are the working classes now?

Approx 60% of the UK population according to surveys and data.
(Obviously a higher proportion than that in the North West.)

[Imploding Turtle]

You think your house and your pension pot would be safe under a Brexit under Corbyn?

Fair play mate, but I'm not sure that is wise.

He'll have to get the money from somewhere

Well, the Tories are really proud of almost balancing the budget on the backs of poor people so maybe it's time the rich started to pay a little more since they're the reason we had such a huge deficit in the first place. Lets get rid of fossil fuel subsidies and save billions per year by not giving money to the most profitable industry in history for no reason.

We can get serious about tackling tax avoidance. That's another several billion a year without even reducing it by half. Without raising taxes by even a penny on anyone.

Replace council tax with a land value tax so that we don't need to spend so much building social housing since landowners won't be discouraged from improving their plots by building property on it anymore.

There are plenty of good lefty ideas that don't get a look in because the right and their media have painted the left all as socialists who want to take your house and pension from you.
I don't know if Corbyn would do any of this, but I know for certain that the Tories won't.

[nil_desperandum]

Although I think Corbyn is an utterly useless leader, and disagree with quite a lot of his ideas, it has to be said that the Labour manifesto for the last election was well-argued and coherent, and was generally well-received.
The concern was that it would cost too much, but the Tories have already wasted billions on brexit anyway, and if electing Corbyn ensures that we don't drop off the cliff-edge of "no deal" then we'll most likely be quids in anyway.

[Ptangyangkipperbang]

I can't even enjoy the football now with all the hype and hearing that damn bloody song everywhere .And now a third election in four years tied in with Brexit could just tip me over the edge

[claretandy]

Farage has announced that if article 50 is delayed, then he is coming back as UKIP leader.

[MrTopTier]

I could never vote for them because in the 64 years that I have been alive they have never put forward any policy that benefited the working classes more that they benefited the classes that they feel they more naturally represent, and I don't believe that they ever will. Is that clear enough for you.

What about the right to buy scheme, how many working class families benefited from being able to buy their own Council House?

[CrosspoolClarets]

The party that occupies the centre ground, has a sensible centrist/centre left policy offering, and which offers the best current option on Brexit, i.e. to have another referendum now we've all seen how utterly impossible the exit process is.

Genuine question. No agenda.

If the Lib Dems stand on a pledge to "we will hold a 2nd referendum and the Government will implement whatever you decide", and if they make clear that it means what I think was obvious the last time which was fully leaving but then negotiating a freetrade deal (if desirable to the EU) just like any other third nation (e.g. China), and IF the public vote to leave again - what then? Would the public view be respected? Should the Lib Dems be applauded for asking the question and should they then carry it out?

I am genuinely curious. I know it is hypothetical because if the Libs get elected in it would mean no appetite for Brexit but I remin curious. The reason being, I suspect the second vote leave will happen, unless conducted at a time of despair, like now.

P.s. I live in the most liberal constituency in Britain, and it is another long story but a few years ago I was on the verge of being put forward to try to unseat Nick Clegg, so I am well used to Lib Dem rationale on this sort of thing.

P.p.s. I doubt it is the right wing of the Tory party who want Brexit. I am not sure right or left is the true divisor.

[Lancasterclaret]

So Farage is coming back?

UKIP current leader, whatisname happy about that?

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't think there is any appetite anymore for any fudge deals Crosspool.

Its either "No deal" or "No Brexit"

Not sure if May idea can even fly, but if she can get it past the EU (doubtful) then that just kicks that down the road for a few years.

[MrTopTier]

Post 17 why a picture of the Vince Lombardi trophy and not the man himself?

[SmudgetheClaret]

Independent the LibLabCon have had their day and I’m sure I’m not on my own being cheesed off with them...

[CrosspoolClarets]

I don't think there is any appetite anymore for any fudge deals Crosspool.

Its either "No deal" or "No Brexit"

Not sure if May idea can even fly, but if she can get it past the EU (doubtful) then that just kicks that down the road for a few years.

Agree entirely.

But "no deal" never meant no trade deal after. I accept the (only) 1% of GDP supply chain companies like Airbus couldnt live with it, but the rest would have been fine with a Canada style goods deal a bit delayed. We could have agreed to stick with old regulations while it was thrashed out. No deal was never the horror the Treasury insisted it was. I'd bet my life on it. It was a stitch up.

(Ironically, the "deal" May agreed was said on Friday to be the "Jersey option" and I sit here in Jersey now, here on business, and they did not recognise the similarity!)

[vinrogue]

I am utterly fed up with the childish bickering that is supposed to be our finest elected MP's, fed up with the lot of them. Today I would not vote Tory, I wouldn't vote for Labour and I certainly would not vote for the Lib Dems. I guess I would do something I have never done and that is not bother to cast a vote. Worrying times ahead.

[Damo]

Why would the result of a 2nd referendum be respected when, the fact it took place meant the result of the first one wasn't?

[Greenmile]

Except that Count Dankula & PJW have both on numerous occasions denounced the alt-right and it's ideology and infact refuse to do interviews with mainstream journalists without having a live video onto their respective YouTube channels so they can't possibly be misinterpreted/falsely quoted...

https://twitter.com/CountDankulaTV/stat ... 69219?s=09" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^ check that out if you don't believe me

They’re alt right because of their widely (self) publicised views, not because they claim it for themselves (IMO of course, but it looks like an opinion shared by the Guardian and others).

I didn’t realise the term had become toxic even amongst the alt-right, tbh, so you’ve taught me something at least.

Maybe “alt right” means something different to you and Moffit than it does to me and the Guardian, like only actual Nazi white-supremacists qualify, but for me it definitely includes these media savvy “provocateur” ****-posters who bang on about pwning the libs, femtards, cucks and soy-boys. If I’m using the wrong word for this type of person, perhaps you can tell me what I should be referring to them as.

[piston broke]

For all those in fear of Corbyn the Whitehall mandarins will calm his extremist tendencies and if they don’t it’s only 5 years but be honest when has a tory government ever done anything good for the working man?
The rich get richer and the poor can go to the food bank is their motto.
They are also day by day breaking up the NHS.

[CoolClaret]

They’re alt right because of their widely (self) publicised views, not because they claim it for themselves (IMO of course, but it looks like an opinion shared by the Guardian and others).

I didn’t realise the term had become toxic even amongst the alt-right, tbh, so you’ve taught me something at least.

Maybe “alt right” means something different to you and Moffit than it does to me and the Guardian, like only actual Nazi white-supremacists qualify, but for me it definitely includes these media savvy “provocateur” ****-posters who bang on about pwning the libs, femtards, cucks and soy-boys. If I’m using the wrong word for this type of person, perhaps you can tell me what I should be referring to them as.

The danger with that is then you'd be lumping in the 'media savvy provocateur **** posters' in with people that genuinely have views of white supremacism and advocate things such as an ethnostate...

- Take Milo Yiannopoulos; can you really say he's 'alt right' - he's married to a black dude after all.

I just think it's disingenuous to do so, and is an attempt to discredit whatever message they may have and group them in with the real **** heads.... Which really does no good at all and creates a bigger divide.

In the same way if someone who sat on the right lumping anyone that expresses socialist beliefs as far left commies - it's just ridiculous.

It wasn't an attack on you persay even if it seemed that way.

[Damo]

There is a little known English law that states if there is no prime minister during the visit of a us president, then he/she automatically becomes prime minister.

stolen from twitter

[Imploding Turtle]

The danger with that is then you'd be lumping in the 'media savvy provocateur **** posters' in with people that genuinely have views of white supremacism and advocate things such as an ethnostate...

- Take Milo Yiannopoulos; can you really say he's 'alt right' - he's married to a black dude after all.

I just think it's disingenuous to do so, and is an attempt to discredit whatever message they may have and group them in with the real **** heads.... Which really does no good at all and creates a bigger divide.

In the same way if someone who sat on the right lumping anyone that expresses socialist beliefs as far left commies - it's just ridiculous.

It wasn't an attack on you persay even if it seemed that way.

Milo Yiannopoulos isn't alt-right?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election- ... annopoulos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Milo Yiannopoulos from 3 mins 20 secs would like to correct you.

[Greenmile]

The danger with that is then you'd be lumping in the 'media savvy provocateur **** posters' in with people that genuinely have views of white supremacism and advocate things such as an ethnostate...

- Take Milo Yiannopoulos; can you really say he's 'alt right' - he's married to a black dude after all.

I just think it's disingenuous to do so, and is an attempt to discredit whatever message they may have and group them in with the real **** heads.... Which really does no good at all and creates a bigger divide.

In the same way if someone who sat on the right lumping anyone that expresses socialist beliefs as far left commies - it's just ridiculous.

It wasn't an attack on you persay even if it seemed that way.

There’s already a word (well, two) for white nationalists. My understanding is that the term “alt-right” was invented to describe people like Milo et al (partly to differentiate them from “far right”, like the folk on Stormfront) whereas “commies” or “nazis” were already well defined (but almost always misused) terms.

As I say, if there’s a more accurate term for that type, I’d be happy to learn it.

(Marrying a black guy does nothing to convince me that Milo’s not racist and homophobic, btw, but that’s a whole different argument.)

[walter the softy]

The danger with that is then you'd be lumping in the 'media savvy provocateur **** posters' in with people that genuinely have views of white supremacism and advocate things such as an ethnostate...

- Take Milo Yiannopoulos; can you really say he's 'alt right' - he's married to a black dude after all.

I just think it's disingenuous to do so, and is an attempt to discredit whatever message they may have and group them in with the real **** heads.... Which really does no good at all and creates a bigger divide.

In the same way if someone who sat on the right lumping anyone that expresses socialist beliefs as far left commies - it's just ridiculous.

I totally agree. People arrive at their opinions for all kinds of different reasons and those opinions often have all kinds of nuance and complexity behind them. The "alt-right" catch-all term seems to me to be a way of dismissing people without engaging with what they are actually saying. This avoidance of engaging with what is actually being said and of discrediting the viewpoint that people have by association is not in itself a "left" or a "right" thing. It is however a tendency that seems to me more and more common these days regardless of political persuasion.

[starting_11]

Tories. Thick and thin.

Labour's next target to hit are low-middle earners. Actually, **** that. Their next target is anyone with a job.

[Imploding Turtle]

I totally agree. People arrive at their opinions for all kinds of different reasons and those opinions often have all kinds of nuance and complexity behind them. The "alt-right" catch-all term seems to me to be a way of dismissing people without engaging with what they are actually saying. This avoidance of engaging with what is actually being said and of discrediting the viewpoint that people have by association is not in itself a "left" or a "right" thing. It is however a tendency that seems to me more and more common these days regardless of political persuasion.

You've no idea what you're talking about. Alt-right talking points and lies are disproven all the time. So what do they do? Scream "fake news".

The alt-right are debated seriously, the problem is they don't take facts seriously. And here you are making them grin from ear to ear as they see you blame us for their stupidity and lack of seriousness.

[Imploding Turtle]

Tories. Thick and thin.

Labour's next target to hit are low-middle earners. Actually, **** that. Their next target is anyone with a job.

Sounds like Project Fear.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Corbyn but I'd prefer him to keep the UK in the EU and just ignore the referendum result. Or, keep having referendums until Remain wins.
As I've said before it's up to the intelligent to fix the mistakes of the stupid, that's been the way of human history.

[Imploding Turtle]

T-rex, someone's going to quote your post and take it seriously. I guarantee it.

[walter the softy]

You've no idea what you're talking about. Alt-right talking points and lies are disproven all the time. So what do they do? Scream "fake news".

The alt-right are debated seriously, the problem is they don't take facts seriously. And here you are making them grin from ear to ear as they see you blame us for their stupidity and lack of seriousness.

I humbly disagree IT. I think that Trump is a narcissistic moron with no Plan A, never mind a Plan B, and that Bannon is a some kind of bizarre war loving jingoist. You can also rest assured that I am also horrified by the the constant "Fake News" sloganeering we get from Trump's administration. The problem is the tendency to throw everyone in the same "alt-right" pot with with whom a person might disagree.

You might think my viewpoint is a bit odd but, then again, it is this approach that has allowed me to think that you are obviously not the same person as Up The Beehole and that perhaps you even do not wear sandals.

[starting_11]

Sounds like Project Fear.

Project reality more like.

The tories in this country are far more left than you'll ever know. Probably far more left than Tony Bliar.

I think you need a dose of reality to see what "right wing" truly is.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

(Marrying a black guy does nothing to convince me that Milo’s not racist and homophobic, btw, but that’s a whole different argument.)

If being married to a black bloke won't convince you he's not racist or homophobic then please tell us what would convince you...