Ronaldo V Messi..

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Japebe43
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Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:45 pm

With the former's move to serie A, I suppose the contest between them is now at an end..

Who won?

# 2
Blackrod
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Blackrod » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:47 pm

Used to be firmly in the Messi camp but changed my mind. Ronaldo is still a prick though.

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 pm

Contest was over when Argentina were knocked out the world cup wasn't it?

If Ronaldo carries on his form in Serie A then it proves what a great player he is.

Messi can carry on doing it at Barcelona, it appears to be the only place he can do it.

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KRBFC
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby KRBFC » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:02 pm

It's not even a contest really, 33 year old Ronaldo still winning Ballon D'or after Ballon D'or.

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BurnleyFC
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby BurnleyFC » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:06 pm

Why would Messi ever want to leave Barcelona, the best club side in the world?

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Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:06 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Contest was over when Argentina were knocked out the world cup wasn't it?

t.


Both had poor world cups really.

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Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:08 pm

KRBFC wrote:It's not even a contest really, 33 year old Ronaldo still winning Ballon D'or after Ballon D'or.


I suspect on medals messi wins.. Let's face it, that's what counts.

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taio
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby taio » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:14 pm

Always thought Ronaldo. He's got everything.

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KRBFC
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby KRBFC » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:41 pm

Japebe43 wrote:I suspect on medals messi wins.. Let's face it, that's what counts.

Disagree, otherwise you're using team honours to compare individual players in a team sport. If you're comparing individuals then individual honours matter more IMO.

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Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:46 pm

KRBFC wrote:Disagree, otherwise you're using team honours to compare individual players in a team sport. If you're comparing individuals then individual honours matter more IMO.


At the end of their careers, all they'll care about are the winners medals.

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Spiral
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:49 pm

If you'd only watched UCL and only watched it for the last five years you'd say Ronaldo, obviously. Folk dismiss league titles like they're nothing. Even European football's sweetheart, Pep, puts league titles ahead of Champions League.

League titles: Messi 9, Ronaldo 5

Domestic cups: Messi 6, Ronaldo 3

Champions League: Messi 4, Ronaldo 5

Ronaldo go subbed off at 0-0 25 minutes into a European Championship final. Got a winners medal, though, so there we go. Stick it on his CV.

Five Ballon d'Or's each. Bale's CL final performance might have earned Ronaldo a sixth,.

My own eyeballs... Ronaldo at his best: complete player, prolific. Messi at his best: does things with a ball at his feet nobody would have thought imaginable before he came along, prolific.

Messi has two years on Ronaldo in which to add to that trophy cabinet. Ronaldo has just signed a nice retirement deal in a one-team mickey mouse league.

Messi.
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Spiral
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:55 pm

KRBFC wrote:Disagree, otherwise you're using team honours to compare individual players in a team sport. If you're comparing individuals then individual honours matter more IMO.


What's the metric to determine the recipient of an individual honour, though? Goals? Nope, that doesn't work. That puts players like Maldini and Beckenbauer out of the frame for their generation. Ronaldo and Messi have only ever won those individual honours when their respective teams have outperformed one another in any given season/calendar year. Trophies do matter when comparing players within the same generation because they're directly competing with one another.

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taio
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby taio » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:58 pm

Bizarre totting-up team titles as the main justification for who is the best individual player.

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Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:01 pm

Well yea.. Shearer 1 title.. Andy Cole.. Quite a few..

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taio
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby taio » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:02 pm

Japebe43 wrote:Well yea.. Shearer 1 title.. Andy Cole.. Quite a few..


Good example of the ridiculousness

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Spiral
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:02 pm

taio wrote:Bizarre totting-up team titles as the main justification for who is the best individual player.


Most...in fact, only, reliable indicator, though. (Beyond golden boot-but like I said, tell Beckenbauer he's out of the conversation on account of his goals tally.) If you discount the empirical arguments, it essentially comes down to preferring the way one runs compared with the other. The trophy cabinet is a significant part of the equation.

Do yourself a quick thought experiment and try to imagine the esteem in which Maradonna would be held without that '86 World Cup.

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taio
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby taio » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:09 pm

Spiral wrote:Most...in fact, only, reliable indicator, though. (Beyond golden boot-but like I said, tell Beckenbauer he's out of the conversation on account of his goals tally.) If you discount the empirical arguments, it essentially comes down to preferring the way one runs compared with the other.


It's not a reliable indicator at all. People will judge based on what they've seen. They are both incredible players.

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:11 pm

Spiral wrote:If you'd only watched UCL and only watched it for the last five years you'd say Ronaldo, obviously. Folk dismiss league titles like they're nothing. Even European football's sweetheart, Pep, puts league titles ahead of Champions League.

League titles: Messi 9, Ronaldo 5

Domestic cups: Messi 6, Ronaldo 3

Champions League: Messi 4, Ronaldo 5

Ronaldo go subbed off at 0-0 25 minutes into a European Championship final. Got a winners medal, though, so there we go. Stick it on his CV.

Five Ballon d'Or's each. Bale's CL final performance might have earned Ronaldo a sixth,.

My own eyeballs... Ronaldo at his best: complete player, prolific. Messi at his best: does things with a ball at his feet nobody would have thought imaginable before he came along, prolific.

Messi has two years on Ronaldo in which to add to that trophy cabinet. Ronaldo has just signed a nice retirement deal in a one-team mickey mouse league.

Messi.


La Liga is generally a two team league, with an odd upset once a decade or so.
Hardly a better league.

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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:13 pm

A two-team league is mathematically twice as competitive as a one-team league. We're talking 50% chance compared with 100% (realistically, for all intents and purposes).

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:17 pm

Calling Serie A a Mickey mouse league though when La Liga is hardly better is a bit odd though

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Spiral
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:29 pm

Juve are going to be champions again, though. Especially now that Sarri has left Napoli. I'm not a gambler, never have been, so don't expect me to put my money where my mouth is, but the fact it's so predictable makes it a nonsense league.

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SGr
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby SGr » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:34 pm

Messi the better player. Ronaldo the better competitor.
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paulus the woodgnome
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby paulus the woodgnome » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:37 pm

If it's team honours that are the deciding factor, Celtic must have some of the best players in the world.

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Spiral
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 pm

Not the deciding factor, but a massive a contributing factor whenever two players are so close to one another and, specifically, directly competing with one another in the same competition. You're also at risk of reinforcing my point about the competitiveness of respective leagues.

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:41 pm

Spiral wrote:Juve are going to be champions again, though. Especially now that Sarri has left Napoli. I'm not a gambler, never have been, so don't expect me to put my money where my mouth is, but the fact it's so predictable makes it a nonsense league.


Juve are probably bribing someone again anyway, Serie A is due another match fixing scandal :lol:

Where could Ronaldo go though?

Bundesliga is the same as La Liga.
The PL winners is usually one of a small number of clubs, but City will probably dominate it for a few years now until the others catch up.
France is also becoming fairly predictable.

He's fairly limited in options.

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Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:48 pm

Maybe Ronnie wants to try Italian life? Don't know about juventus though.. Is Turin a nice area?

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TVC15
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby TVC15 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:53 pm

Japebe43 wrote:Maybe Ronnie wants to try Italian life? Don't know about juventus though.. Is Turin a nice area?


I don’t think he’ll be living in a “due up due down” on Stoopsio estate

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Spiral
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:05 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Juve are probably bribing someone again anyway, Serie A is due another match fixing scandal :lol:

Where could Ronaldo go though?

Bundesliga is the same as La Liga.
The PL winners is usually one of a small number of clubs, but City will probably dominate it for a few years now until the others catch up.
France is also becoming fairly predictable.

He's fairly limited in options.


Without wanting to sound like a pointy-shoe & waistcoat combo-wearing d.ickhead pundit/presenter/press officer from Sky Sports, the Premier League (read it as "The English First Division" if it makes it more palatable) is a legitimately competitive league. The fact City humped everyone last season is a testament to City, not an indictment of the league. The Bundesliga is as uncompetitive as Serie A (if not more), but Ronaldo's 'plight' of a relative lack of options doesn't change the simple fact that La Liga is a better, more competitive and harder league to win than Serie A. I don't think he has completely thrown in the towel from a sporting/competitive point of view - I think, him being the indignant little crybaby that he is, he's sick of the Spanish tax authorities doing the job they are paid to do, and I think that has massively informed his decision to leave Spain. (Messi faced similar charges).

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paulus the woodgnome
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby paulus the woodgnome » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:16 pm

Bobby Charlton said the only player who made him feel inferior was Duncan Edwards. If he had lived what could he have achieved - he certainly would have played in the '66 WC.

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KRBFC
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby KRBFC » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:49 pm

Spiral wrote:A two-team league is mathematically twice as competitive as a one-team league. We're talking 50% chance compared with 100% (realistically, for all intents and purposes).

You say all this about the lack of competitiveness in the league then say Messi is the better player? Did you not see Ronaldo at United? :lol: His performances for Man United is a huge factor in what swings it for me, shown he can do it without the tiki-taka comfortable Barca style that Messi has always had, Barca dominate 75% of the ball every game, it's set up perfectly for Messi to perform well.

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Spiral
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Spiral » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:58 pm

Okay, Ronaldo's strongest attributes: athleticism (and all it's synonyms; power, pace, strength etc), movement, finishing. How was Ferguson's UTD set up to play to anything other than Ronaldo's strengths? The UTD side that won the CL in '08, for instance, could counter-attack as well as any other side in living memory.

I just can't for the life of me understand how "but his team played to his strengths" (as if that isn't the point of football) can be used to detract from a player's status, especially when a cursory glance at reality would surely have you concede the point that his closest rival also had his own team/s playing to his strengths.

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Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:54 pm

So ronaldo then?

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DustyBawls
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby DustyBawls » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:57 pm

Ooh, I like this debate as it's never, ever, been asked before.

Messi.

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Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Too late.. Time was up.. Ronaldo wins.

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DustyBawls
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby DustyBawls » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:01 pm

Just seen the OP - no ending time.

Messi wins.

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Guich
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Guich » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:52 pm

Messi is an artist
Ronaldo is an egotist

Both great players but Messi can be magical whereas Ronaldo always looks for the headlines. He models, he pontificates and he scores goals. See how the media drooled after his hat-trick against Spain, a dive for a penalty, a scuffed grubber which De Gea scooped into the net and then...on 93 minutes a free kick (as good as Tripps against Croatia) and it's RONALDO!!!!

Messi had a bad world cup but at two years younger he has, I believe, almost identical stats for goals and assists as his more beautiful nemesis who is older and going out to grass.

Misty eyed Manyoo fans love their CR7, but Messi is pure class (and he's not a tw"t) .

Messi all day long

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taio
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby taio » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:01 pm

I can understand some people leaning one way and others leaning the opposite way because they are both incredible players. But some of the tosh against the other player to justify their view is weak.

# 38
Japebe43
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Japebe43 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:10 pm

Messi's eyebrows are better..

# 39
Guich
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Guich » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:13 pm

Ronaldo dyes his hair

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Gnulty
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Re: Ronaldo V Messi..

Postby Gnulty » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:26 pm

Both of them should be in jail for tax fraud...


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