Eng vs Bel

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:41 pm

Jones was on the wrong side of Hazard. We aren't very good at defending, and that needs to improve.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:41 pm

Phil Jones being Phil Jones, how he got in the squad above Tarks, Mee etc etc is embarrassing

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:41 pm

Pearcey wrote:You’re like a talkSPORT dj. Throw in a bizarre comment and wait for reaction.

I find International football boring, slow paced and defensive. Makes for a poor spectacle as a neutral, I don't know why it's bizarre that I prefer club football.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:41 pm

Tarks wouldn't be any better than Jones.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:42 pm

Had to come.
Men v Boys.
Belgium have some bloody good players just now.
I still think England should have beaten Croatia. No disgrace losing to these boys though.

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:42 pm

Lingaard is very poor and look like he doesnt know where to go or what to do.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:42 pm

KRBFC wrote:I find International football boring, slow paced and defensive. Makes for a poor spectacle as a neutral, I don't know why it's bizarre that I prefer club football.

Go away then.

Please.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:43 pm

Loftus cheek off for Ali - how **** does Kane need to be to be taken off ?

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:44 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Loftus cheek off for Ali - how **** does Kane need to be to be taken off ?

Golden Boot chance.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:44 pm

DustyBawls wrote:Tarks wouldn't be any better than Jones.

Quite possibly but Jones has proved over the last 10 years he isn't anywhere near good enough, the likes of Tarks (or anyone really) need to be given the opportunity

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm

Our world cup record looks a bit different now I guess.

P7 w3 l3 d1 (if you take the Colombia game as a draw).

Now we have done well to get where we are and we have seen signs of the future but let's not get carried away we still are average.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm

I think lingard has played well, he's created space we haven't used that space, looked poor up front . Jones and Dier are clearly not international players

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm

I notice not many people on here are talking about the positives, like how well Trippier has played again, how Loftus-Cheek has played well in parts and how in the second half we improved and played some decent football.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:46 pm

watsonsclarets wrote:Our world cup record looks a bit different now I guess.

P7 w3 l3 d1 (if you take the Colombia game as a draw).

Now we have done well to get where we are and we have seen signs of the future but let's not get carried away we still are average.

Nobody is getting carried away. You're just randomly being a pessimistic sod.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:46 pm

It’d be an absolute crime if Harry Kane was to better Gary Lineker’s golden boot tally.

Gary Lineker had a cracking tournament, where as Harry Kane hasn’t.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:47 pm

I bet Roberto Martinez is kicking himself for beating us in the group, Belgium would have beaten Croatia and been in the final

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:48 pm

watsonsclarets wrote:Our world cup record looks a bit different now I guess.

P7 w3 l3 d1 (if you take the Colombia game as a draw).

Now we have done well to get where we are and we have seen signs of the future but let's not get carried away we still are average.

Terrible side really, we finished 2nd in the group and got blessed with the easiest draw I've ever seen and still somehow looked average and finished 4th.

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:51 pm

DustyBawls wrote:Nobody is getting carried away. You're just randomly being a pessimistic sod.

Not really just realistic I have seen many positives from England and think things are emerging just stated a fact.

and as for the other chap England are not poor just missing a bit of the puzzle.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:55 pm

KRBFC wrote:Terrible side really, we finished 2nd in the group and got blessed with the easiest draw I've ever seen and still somehow looked average and finished 4th.

In that case, why not consider not bothering watching England again, nor posting on threads related to England? It doesn't sound like you enjoy watching them, so surely common sense suggests you should pack it in and just watch Burnley, instead?

I've seen some people repeat about 10 times that they won't be watching England this tournament. And? What do they want, the red carpet?

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:58 pm

DustyBawls wrote:I notice not many people on here are talking about the positives, like how well Trippier has played again, how Loftus-Cheek has played well in parts and how in the second half we improved and played some decent football.

Got to take the positives, we were never going to win the tournament so finishing fourth is a fantastic achievement. The job now is to turn these young lads into a competitive team.
I assume some players will be dropped and he will be bringing through some more kids.
Big job now for Gareth.

Flat Stanley · Post by **Flat Stanley** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:59 pm

Better second half but What is up with Kane? He may as well not have played the last 3 games. Total passenger, really frustrating watching his lack of effort and movement.

Tripper excellent again. Team spirit and culture is very important and will stand us in good stead going forward hopefully.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:24 pm

Huge credit to Southgate though, speaking complete sense and with honesty after the game

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:26 pm

We do lack quality and think we've flattered to deceive because of the kindness of the draw. Positives Trippier, Maguire
Negatives Lingard Alli and Sterling

winsomeyen · Post by **winsomeyen** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Sterling reminds me of a puppy chasing a balloon.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:44 pm

A touch of reality today.
One team able to break at Palace an the other giving them ample time to get back in position, to defend.

Lots of skill but as Individuals, with a lack of outcome.
4th not the end of the world.

Come back Nick. Welcome home.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:45 pm

winsomeyen wrote:Sterling reminds me of a puppy chasing a balloon.

Big debate on sterling on another thread , posters stating that if you call sterling you know nothing about football. I think they would find it hard to justify his inclusion after that performance.
He's had some decent games but I don't think anyone could say he's had a good world cup.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:52 pm

Shore claret wrote:Big debate on sterling on another thread , posters stating that if you call sterling you know nothing about football. I think they would find it hard to justify his inclusion after that performance.
He's had some decent games but I don't think anyone could say he's had a good world cup.

It was either him or Rashford that had to play up with Kane. And Sterling, overall, hasn't been as bad as some are making out. He's took opposing defenders further wide, allowing other players more room. A good World Cup? Nope. But at the same time not as bad as many make out because all they see is him missing his chances. They don't see what goes on around him with other players.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:56 pm

DustyBawls wrote:It was either him or Rashford that had to play up with Kane. And Sterling, overall, hasn't been as bad as some are making out. He's took opposing defenders further wide, allowing other players more room. A good World Cup? Nope. But at the same time not as bad as many make out because all they see is him missing his chances. They don't see what goes on around him with other players.

I agree with all that but at the end of the day his end product is woefull. Kane can't have all that pressure on his shoulders, your second striker has to weigh in with goals.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:12 pm

Belgium bossed the game, we were never in it.
Our midfield is weak to compete at the very highest level and the front two of sterling and Kane are really bang average

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:16 pm

Top Claret wrote:Belgium bossed the game, we were never in it.
Our midfield is weak to compete at the very highest level and the front two of sterling and Kane are really bang average

Well, erm.. no they didn't. And of course we were in it. We had plenty of the ball, particularly in the second half.
And Kane is bang average? He's had a bang average World Cup, but he isn't a bang average forward.

But Belgium do have 2 world class players and we don't. And they deserved to win, but they didn't boss the whole game at all.

What game were you watching?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:24 pm

Should have equalized when we were far, far better second half.

Lingaard makes such a difference to us

Danny Rose was dreadful

Still, been a good tournament to watch and we've massively over-achieved and laid the foundations to continue to improve.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:26 pm

Certainly not the same as you.
We never hurt Belgium, they were playing with us. 2nd half we had plenty of the ball but never threatened. Belgium showed there class by hitting us on the counter against the run of play.
Your knowledge of football is extremely limited young man

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:30 pm

Top Claret wrote:Certainly not the same as you.
We never hurt Belgium, they were playing with us. 2nd half we had plenty of the ball but never threatened. Belgium showed there class by hitting us on the counter against the run of play.
Your knowledge of football is extremely limited young man

We played well in the second half and had a chance cleared off the line - you MUST have missed that, otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you did. And you must have missed the second half, or most of it? You're clueless, but in a cute way.

Duffer_ · Post by **Duffer_** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:33 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Lingaard makes such a difference to us

Agree. He was pivotal to our style of play, second only to Tripps, linking midfield with attack and making things happen. I was supportive of his selection but didn't expect him to have such an impact.

UTC!

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:34 pm

Top Claret wrote:Certainly not the same as you.
We never hurt Belgium, they were playing with us. 2nd half we had plenty of the ball but never threatened. Belgium showed there class by hitting us on the counter against the run of play.
Your knowledge of football is extremely limited young man

We played very poorly for the majority of the game but to suggest we were not in the game is a joke. There was a spell in the second half where it looked very much like we would equalise. We didn’t and Belgium killed the game off. We lost against a better side but in reality the only gulf between the sides is because Belgium have Hazard and De Bruyne.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:44 pm

Lots of positives to be taken from the tournament, but obvious weaknesses.
If we had any 2 of Modric, Ratatic, Kante, Debruyne or Hazard we could have won it.
Not knocking Henderson, he did very well, but he isn't, and never will be as good as them. We didn't leave anyone better at home either.
We need to develop some young English players who can hold the ball up, retain it, run at players with it, and above all pick a pass.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:16 pm

I don't think we'd need 2 players like Modric, just 1 player who has the vision of someone like him, would have been significant enough. Like I say, defending when we don't have the ball + a bit of vision and cutting edge pass for the likes of Kane is what we're missing and would need to be added somehow, to be more realistic of us winning a major tournament.

But we've certainly passed the ball about better than previous tournaments and played like a TEAM, as opposed to a group of individuals.

The good thing is, Southgate knows what's missing and what he has to hope comes through over the next 18 months or so. It's not like we need a whole new team to come through.

k90bfc · Post by **k90bfc** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:23 pm

Southgate,portrays as Mr Super Cool,but the truth is same old boring,clueless England,Southgate not strong enough to make the decisions needed,ie Sterling,far to loyal to him,didnt deliver,Harry Kane,most of the game on the halfway line,fifteen passes from the back,getting knowwhere,did not deserve a thing,the closest they got to 1966,was the red shirts!

exilecanada · Post by **exilecanada** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:36 pm

In my mind this WC was brilliant from an England point of view. We finished 4th, not too shabby for a team not expected to progress past the last 16. Yes, we’re lacking in talent, no question about that, but does this come as a surprise to anyone? Of course not! We don’t produce Ronaldo’s, Messi’s or De Bruyne’s et a l, unlikely we ever will. Give South gate his dues, he got rid of the dead wood (Sterling excepted), devised a plan of action and brought in players who suit his plan. As mentioned on here a number of times, Southgate visited our place on numerous occasions the past season. Probably to scout various players, also to take a closer look at Dyche’s tactics to get as much as possible out of the cards he’s dealt. Southgate did a decent job IMHO.

Anyway, a few things came to light in this WC from an England’s point of view.
• Woeful first half finishing in Croatia game cost us dearly, game should have been sewn up by half time.
• Trippier emerged as our best outfield player.
• We have nothing up front when Kane isn’t on his game.
• Pickford cemented his claim as #1 goalie, rightly so, he saved our bacon on a few occasions and showed leadership qualities.
• Pope has zero chance of playing for England given Southgate’s preference for a goalie who can use his feet to advantage.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:01 pm

Until we have a decent defence we'll struggle.

Our defenders may be great going forward but if everyone is being honest and realistic then it's fair to say that Trippier, Walker, Maguire and Stones are not particularly good defenders.

Until we stop conceding in the way we do we haven't a chance of proceeding in the world standings.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:04 pm

I missed the game. But this is beautiful. All of it.

https://streamja.com/arZW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:05 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I missed the game. But this is beautiful. All of it.

https://streamja.com/arZW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Totally agree - excellent save.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:06 pm

Croatia....we cudda and shudda there in lies the reality of England's World Cup Campaign.forget the inquests.a big opportunity missed.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:12 pm

Spijed wrote:Until we have a decent defence we'll struggle.

Our defenders may be great going forward but if everyone is being honest and realistic then it's fair to say that Trippier, Walker, Maguire and Stones are not particularly good defenders.

Until we stop conceding in the way we do we haven't a chance of proceeding in the world standings.

If we are to improve it will need to be about our ability to break teams down from open play rather than our defence.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:16 pm

DustyBawls wrote:Tarks wouldn't be any better than Jones.

No not with an hernia. Now he's had it seen to he'd be a lot better.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:16 pm

taio wrote:If we are to improve it will need to be about our ability to break teams down from open play rather than our defence.

It's both. We need somebody who can provide defence-splitting passes, whilst also our defence needs to read the opposition better, get on the right side (Jones vs Hazard just one example, from today) whilst also anticipating better.

It's not one or the other, it's both that England need to be better at.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:17 pm

Stayingup wrote:No not with an hernia.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:19 pm

DustyBawls wrote:It's both. We need somebody who can provide defence-splitting passes, whilst also our defence needs to read the opposition better, get on the right side (Jones vs Hazard just one example, from today) whilst also anticipating better.

It's not one or the other, it's both that England need to be better at.

That moment from Jones was terrible but he should have no future with England. But I disagree that the root cause was as above - it was to do with the fact that he was four yards behind the back line.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:25 pm

Kane not a captain had another shocker. I still don't think we can play with a back there. We don't attack with pace.
Positives are we are trying to pass the ball. Maguire Loftus Cheek Stones Tripps.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:32 pm

piston broke wrote:Luke Shaw will be our LB, when he gets away from Mourinho but Danny Rose is well short at international level.

I doubt it. The next qualifying ought to see the Fulham left wing back drafted straight in. Sessignon if I spelt it right.

Jones was awful in both outings. What did seem obvious was that Southgate did ok picking his outfield 10, as with the exception of delph, every time a replacement came on, he looked worse than the one that went off.

Should have taken shelvey. Didn't need him until Columbia, but from that point on, it needed someone that could put their foot on the ball and threaten to play an unexpected forward pass.