Sam clucas

[claretspice]

I said "if and when we go down". All teams bar the top ones do eventually, which is why the top flight now bears so little resemblance to 20 years ago.

I don't agree with you on Arfield, but leaving that aside, we've got 4 central midfielders for what may very well be 3 slots, and 3 wingers for what may very well be 2 slots (and in both cases, we've one coming back from long term injury). So either way, we've only got one spare. We may well need players in both positions, but the good news is that to cover an injury crisis in wide areas, if we sign Clucas he can play in both.

Seems to me you're presuming both that we won't be going in for both a winger and a central midfielder, and you're falling into the trap of judging our business now based on rumours than waiting till the end of the window and judging it in the round. Do you not think Dyche has a good idea of where he's short and needs to strengthen?

[Tuddybfc]

I said "if and when we go down". All teams bar the top ones do eventually, which is why the top flight now bears so little resemblance to 20 years ago.

I don't agree with you on Arfield, but leaving that aside, we've got 4 central midfielders for what may very well be 3 slots, and 3 wingers for what may very well be 2 slots (and in both cases, we've one coming back from long term injury). So either way, we've only got one spare. We may well need players in both positions, but the good news is that to cover an injury crisis in wide areas, if we sign Clucas he can play in both.

Seems to me you're presuming both that we won't be going in for both a winger and a central midfielder, and you're falling into the trap of judging our business now based on rumours than waiting till the end of the window and judging it in the round. Do you not think Dyche has a good idea of where he's short and needs to strengthen?

You don’t agree with me that Arfield was a natural winger? That’s an interesting standpoint to take when he only played centre mid when absolutely necessary and played the majority of his games on the wing. Also in order for there to be 3 CM slots we would have to be looking to sign an attacking midfielder, a number 10 as Hendrick showed he’s not suited to that position. Granted we can’t judge until the end of the window and the lack of rumours does worry me although things could be going on behind the scenes, but it is rare these days for a transfer to happen without a rumour first. I’m basing some of this of our ineptitude to find cover for centre back last season, the time when we had no central midfielders and played Jones and Arfield for a half a season, so only going off past instances there.

[claretspice]

You don’t agree with me that Arfield was a natural winger? That’s an interesting standpoint to take when he only played centre mid when absolutely necessary and played the majority of his games on the wing. Also in order for there to be 3 CM slots we would have to be looking to sign an attacking midfielder, a number 10 as Hendrick showed he’s not suited to that position. Granted we can’t judge until the end of the window and the lack of rumours does worry me although things could be going on behind the scenes, but it is rare these days for a transfer to happen without a rumour first. I’m basing some of this of our ineptitude to find cover for centre back last season, the time when we had no central midfielders and played Jones and Arfield for a half a season, so only going off past instances there.

So, Dyche doesn't agree with you on Hendrick. He backed him repeatedly last season and the only reason he eventually dropped him was because the scoring form of Barnes and Wood really made it a foregone conclusion we'd go 4-4-2.

Dyche didn't agree with you on Arfield either - he played him there when Hendrick was injured at the beginning of last season (and he was I think our man of the match both at Wembley and Anfield in the draws with Spurs and Liverpool). And he never played him as an orthodox winger, he played him as a wide midfielder tucking in narrow, which is rather different. We clearly valued him both as a winger in a 4-4-2, and as a back up option to give us depth in the centre of midfield.

Secondly, when you start berating the club for "ineptitude", you might want to have a look at our overall record in recent times.

[Tuddybfc]

So, Dyche doesn't agree with you on Hendrick. He backed him repeatedly last season and the only reason he eventually dropped him was because the scoring form of Barnes and Wood really made it a foregone conclusion we'd go 4-4-2.

Dyche didn't agree with you on Arfield either - he played him there when Hendrick was injured at the beginning of last season (and he was I think our man of the match both at Wembley and Anfield in the draws with Spurs and Liverpool). And he never played him as an orthodox winger, he played him as a wide midfielder tucking in narrow, which is rather different. We clearly valued him both as a winger in a 4-4-2, and as a back up option to give us depth in the centre of midfield.

Secondly, when you start berating the club for "ineptitude", you might want to have a look at our overall record in recent times.

Any proof that Hendrick was only dropped because of that? Because in my eyes although Wood came back very strong, he still wasn’t fully fit as some of his lacklustre performances after that strong comeback suggested, and was thrown in at the deep end because of how poor Hendrick was. I think we must’ve watched different games last season if you thought Hendrick played well in the 10

As for Arfield yes he did play well in those games you mentioned but that was as part of a midfield 3 where he was able to push forward in central areas (where he ended up played anyway a lot of the time when he started as a winger), I see the argument for a wide midfielder but I still don’t see Clucas as suitable for that position.

And yes, I acknowledge how successful we’ve been, but I stand by my point it is inept to leave ourselves 2 injuries away from a Kevin Long and Charlie Taylor centre back partnership or as we saw in the 2014/15 season 1 injury away from Arfield and Jones in a 4-4-2 with no central midfield cover.

[SGr]

“Not calling Hendrick for £10.5m a failure or a flop, but I’m not calling him a success either. Sorry :/”

To be fair we’ve had two decent Premier League seasons out of him and a few goals so £10.5m isn’t bad value at all!

I’d say “decent” is pushing it. For £10.5m for me he’s been consistently off the pace and offered little, save for a handful of good games. Only have to look at the average player ratings on here...

[Long Time Lurker]

I’d say “decent” is pushing it. For £10.5m for me he’s been consistently off the pace and offered little, save for a handful of good games. Only have to look at the average player ratings on here...

I would say decent is a gross under estimation. Towards the end of the season he was picking up fan MOM ratings.

What you have to understand is that he is playing out of position in one of the toughest leagues in the world. That is a very difficult learning environment to be in and while he hasn't dazzled us with his forward attacking contributions in every match he definitely didn't let us down in terms of his overall playing contribution. Being swapped in and out of the team, in line with different formations, didn't give him a consistent run either. Never the less he showed good signs of improvement in his new role under very testing circumstances.

Had he been playing in his favoured role of central midfield more of the nay sayers might think differently. Whether you appreciate the difficult job he did for us last season as our no 10 it doesn't detract from the fact that he is still a quality central midfielder. He just isn't playing in that position at the moment, because the team needs a no 10 and he has been courageous enough to step up to the plate.

[Long Time Lurker]

Apart from anything else, Grealish doesn't really fit the way that Dyche wants Burnley to play.

I'm probably in the minority but Grealish strikes me as being half a player. Villa were set up last season to highlight their little show pony. They had something of a schoolyard "pass it to Jack" framework.

Grealish is similar to a butterfly that captures your attention as it flutters about, because he is given so much time on the ball. Unfortunately his time on the ball usually leads to sweet **** all. The problem is that he doesn't have much of anything that resembles an end product. He dribbles around a bit and then he either

A) Falls over
B) Plays a beautifully weighted pass to a player who is no position to do much with the ball.
C) Falls over
D) Fluffs his shot
E) Falls over
F) Does something useful

To that end he runs about a lot and sees a lot of possession. He also attracts a lot of fouls, which are heightened by his diving skills. Arguably, he opens up space and unsettles defences, but he is a very inefficient player. For all that running and effort he should be creating and scoring more. However, some of the other players in the Villa team are the ones that actually do the work that matters.

I agree that Grealish is not the right type of player for us at all. Pochettino could possibly turn him into the next world beater if he can add the end product to his game, but it could go either way. I would class him as an expensive risk even with the projected fire sale prices at Villa.

Hourihane isn't the ideal candidate for us, but he would be the one I would consider in the Villa fire sale. In terms of an energetic all round midfield box to box type he is probably the best option available to us in the UK market for our price range. If we could pick him up for a fire sale £5m-£6m or less he could make a decent midfield squad player and back up to Jeff.

[claretspice]

Any proof that Hendrick was only dropped because of that? Because in my eyes although Wood came back very strong, he still wasn’t fully fit as some of his lacklustre performances after that strong comeback suggested, and was thrown in at the deep end because of how poor Hendrick was. I think we must’ve watched different games last season if you thought Hendrick played well in the 10 .

Yes, he played every game until Barnes and Wood both scored in, I think 3 successive games. The only game previously he'd missed last season were because of injury. I'd also point you to Dyche's comments about Hendrick's role last season. He disagrees with you too.

[KRBFC]

I'd have took Clucas last year but that was before we knew how good Westwood, Cork and Defour have been, with Hendrick there I don't see where he fits in and at £12M for a 4th/5th choice central midfielder it seems overpriced.

[Top Claret]

Swansea will want there money back, we will have to pay 15 million if we want him

[Colburn_Claret]

We need better the Clucas. Doesn't need to be better than what we have already, but at least able to put some pressure on. Clucas wouldn't do that.

[IanMcL]

With Defour seemingly prone to strains, at this stage of his career and Dean Marney gone, Sam Clucas is the bixcto box replacement, who can also go wide. Sign him on!

[Vegas Claret]

see our scouting has improved immensely over the last few years, not knocking Clucas as i've only seen him play on TV where he hasn't been overly impressive but if he is who we have identified as the best use of 12 million quid then our European scouts needing shooting

[Stayingup]

More realistic.. But do you need another midfielder?

We need as many good ones as we can get and this guy is good.

[Woodleyclaret]

An attacking midfielder who carries a goal threat?get him signed

[Stayingup]

Who’s he replacing then? And in what system?

Arfield

[taio]

Think he'd play a major role next season, therefore £12m in today's market would be ok.

[mdd2]

Hasn't Clucas taken two clubs down into the Campion ship with Hull and the Swans?

[SGr]

Arfield

So he would be a backup player then - as per my original post.

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Certainly an upgrade on Arfield, Walters, Westwood and Marney.

He can play wide, behind the striker or in central midfield and he knows where the net is.

I think he's a decent signing at £12million, wouldn't pay any more than that.

[Billy_Bumface]

Very good player, will develop under Dyche as well.

[Long Time Lurker]

He has played one solitary match as a central attacking midfielder in 66 EPL matches and scored 6 goals and contributed 2 assists in all of those 66 matches. I'm not seeing were this idea that he is a goal scoring attacking midfielder is coming from.

He primarily plays across the midfield centre line or slightly deeper in an ineffective holding role and sometimes higher up the wing.

He is currently an average left midfielder with an expensive price tag if he is anything. The lad has legs (although one of them is injured at the moment) and he has the stamina to run around a bit, but not particularly quickly.

I would rather we shifted our attention back towards Joe Bryan if the early transfer window rumours about our interest were genuine.

[Jakubs Tash]

Clucas makes perfect sense. He covers central and wide areas so will help with losing Marney and Arfield and £12m (if true) isn't huge money in this day and age.

I don't profess to know too much abut him but whenever I have seen him he looks a technically sound footballer. We can now offer him Premier League football and European football and Dyche wanted him last summer so is clearly a fan....which is good enough for me.

However, I would LOVE to see someone like Antonio sign too. So I'm hoping Clucas would be more of an Marney replacement than an Arfield replacement.

[TopCat]

Leicester signing players aplenty.
Demari Gray available?

[Belgianclaret]

see our scouting has improved immensely over the last few years, not knocking Clucas as i've only seen him play on TV where he hasn't been overly impressive but if he is who we have identified as the best use of 12 million quid then our European scouts needing shooting

European scouting is still a very weak point. Don't exactly know what the added value of Butterworth is.

[jojomk1]

No better than any of our current 4 CM and no better than Brady or JBG
And people are happy for us to pay the supposed £12m for another "squad" player - when we didn't get him last year we brought in Westwood instead
Only rumour of course, but is the mindset of our recruitment team (exc SD) now based on price rather than skillsets required
The manager has spoken with the Chairman and Chief Exec and has expressed his thoughts that we would have to break our transfer record to get in the players he wants
Are the Chairman and Chief Exec working to their own plan

[Lancasterclaret]

Why is everyone mentioning Arfield?

I'm sure that the reason he left was that he was going to get first team football in his home country for one of the biggest clubs there.

If he wanted to stay, he'd have stayed.

He's gone, nowt we can do about it because he choose to leave.

[IanMcL]

That Vida for the Croats plays like Ben Mee!

[boatshed bill]

Why is everyone mentioning Arfield?

I'm sure that the reason he left was that he was going to get first team football in his home country for one of the biggest clubs there.

If he wanted to stay, he'd have stayed.

He's gone, nowt we can do about it because he choose to leave.

Chose to leave because he could see his first team opportunities dwindling at Burnley?

[Vegas Claret]

European scouting is still a very weak point. Don't exactly know what the added value of Butterworth is.

It's non existent and that is unacceptable when the likes of Brighton and Huddersfield seemingly have it down

[Lancasterclaret]

Yeah, because he is an excellent back up but not a consistent first team player.

We all love him, but lets not pretend he could hold down a first team place

[Duffer_]

Yeah, because he is an excellent back up but not a consistent first team player.

We all love him, but lets not pretend he could hold down a first team place

Sorry, are we talking about Clucas or Scotty?

UTC!

[nil_desperandum]

Swansea will want there money back, we will have to pay 15 million if we want him

Then Swansea will be disappointed. How can they expect to get their money back?. Are you saying that he improved last season?
He's now a year older and had an injury. If they want him off the wage bill, then they'll have to take the best offer they can get.
Between £10 million and £12.5 million sounds about right, given their relegation and where Clucas is now.

[Lancasterclaret]

Scotty, but Clucas is a lot younger and has held down first team places in premier league sides already.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still love to have Arfield here but its not an option.

[SGr]

European scouting is still a very weak point. Don't exactly know what the added value of Butterworth is.

Major weakness. Pascal Groß was no unknown quantity in the Bundesliga - was a very good and well rated playmaker, and Brighton were able to pick him up for £3.5m. That’s the difference.

[SGr]

Scotty, but Clucas is a lot younger and has held down first team places in premier league sides already.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still love to have Arfield here but its not an option

He’s less than 2 years younger than Scotty.

[Lancasterclaret]

So he's younger than Scotty then.



Seriously though, we need cover and people challenging for positions. He ticks enough of the boxes to do that.

[Duffer_]

Pure conjecture on my part but I reckon Scotty would have stayed had we offered him a 3 year deal on more money. Presumably we chose not to because we felt we could attract a better replacement. I have no issue with Scotty's departure but it should, at least in part, be judged on the quality of the upgrade. If that upgrade is Clucas at £12m+ then I am underwhelmed.

UTC!

[Long Time Lurker]

European scouting is still a very weak point. Don't exactly know what the added value of Butterworth is.

He seems to be the soft part of our continental breakfast.

He's there for the people who don't like Marge.

[Conroy92]

We need to be smart with the squad this year, by signing Clucas we replace Marney and Arfield with better quality.
That means we have extra spaces for the first team players we need. Astute signing.

[Lancasterclaret]

Pretty sure that Scotty wanted to play as much as possible.

He'll shine up there and be a certain starter

[Long Time Lurker]

Swansea where awash with money from the Sigurdsson and a few others last season, including Corky

They needed to bring players in to fill the gaps and they paid way way over the odds for him. With an upper limit ceiling of £10m our valuation of him then was far more realistic.

He didn't pull up any trees last year, he is a year older, he has just been relegated again, he is currently injured and he wants to move because he has had problems settling at Swansea - the fans are/where mean to him. Swansea are also looking to reduce their wage bill.

It's all hear say and speculation, but £12m represents an extremely generous opening bid in these circumstances. If we really are in for him we should have gone it at a much lower opening figure of £6m to £8m. We shouldn't be expected to reward Swansea for their reckless appraisal and spending by returning the majority of their over expenditure.

The simple truth is that he wasn't worth anywhere near what they paid for him then and he is worth less now. Our valuation should be based on that.

Newcastle and others are rumoured to be hovering around Andre Ayew with a view to a loan deal. If Swansea are up for that deals of that type I can't see why they wouldn't consider a loan with an option to buy for Clucas as an alternative to an immediate transfer.

It would give us a better look at him at least, oh wait ..... he is injured until September and we need a left sided player who can contribute immediately. Wells was different because he was a lot cheaper and we didn't need him from the get go.

[Wokingclaret]

Come on Burnley, Sam is last years news, Dawson years old news and Jay just because he played for us

Believe Stan is joining up with Bruce again at Villa to head their recruitment and he was on our door step.

[Duffer_]

I heard Stan describe Clucas as a beer signing on champagne money.

UTC!

[Japebe43]

Very good player, will develop under Dyche as well.

I hear he's 28yr old..

[randomclaret2]

Villa being linked with Ronnie Jepson and Lennie Johnrose

[Wokingclaret]

Warnock has got Ronnie

[jojomk1]

We need to be smart with the squad this year, by signing Clucas we replace Marney and Arfield with better quality.
That means we have extra spaces for the first team players we need. Astute signing.

Marney and Arfield were considered surplus to requirements - we don't need any cover for them

[claretspice]

Marney and Arfield were considered surplus to requirements - we don't need any cover for them

Rubbish. Firstly, Arfield was offered a new deal and rejected it. He wasnt surplus to requirements. Secondly, even if two players were deemed to be beyond their useful life with us, the idea that means we don't need to replace/upgrade them, so should go through next season with just 4 central midfielders, is bizarre.

Interesting point above about European scouting. Whilst we'd all like to use that avenue more, there's a clear logical argument for our continuing preference for domestic signings.

[Wokingclaret]

"there's a clear logical argument for our continuing preference for domestic signings."


not when dealing with WBA