Sam clucas

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:20 am

Murger wrote:Don't think I've seen him have a good game. Looks to be a grafter with zero skill. He's not an upgrade on what we have.


How many games have you seen him play?

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Murger » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:30 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:How many games have you seen him play?


Well I'm guessing Hull and Swansea appeared on telly a fair amount of times.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:33 am

Murger wrote:Well I'm guessing Hull and Swansea appeared on telly a fair amount of times.


Not really answering my question. You said you’ve never seen him have a good game so just wondered how many times you have watched him? Or are you just guessing he’s never had a good game?

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Hedontplayforyou » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:34 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Not really answering my question. You said you’ve never seen him have a good game so just wondered how many times you have watched him? Or are you just guessing he’s never had a good game?


Here come the handbags at last
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Shore claret » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:35 am

He had a good end to the season when Swansea seemed a more settled side, someone mentioned signing championship players, he isn't he's spent the last two seasons in the top division.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby MDWat » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:38 am

Wouldn’t mind Clucas. He’s an upgrade on Arfield and can play both wide left and in the centre.

My main reservation is signing someone injured. We did that with Wells last season and that didn’t turn out well.

If Clucas, Dawson and Rodriguez are the sum of our transfer business you’d think we’ve added a lot of Premier League experience but it’s not very exciting. For £50m or so, too.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:41 am

Hedontplayforyou wrote:Here come the handbags at last


I thought I’d asked a fair question!!!

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Murger » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:47 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Not really answering my question. You said you’ve never seen him have a good game so just wondered how many times you have watched him? Or are you just guessing he’s never had a good game?


So you want me remember how many times I've watched Hull and Swansea on tv?

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby claretandy » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:51 am

In the same article nixon says Dawson wants £75K a week, why didn't we already know this before wasting out time pursuing him ?
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Hedontplayforyou » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:53 am

Murger wrote:So you want me remember how many times I've watched Hull and Swansea on tv?


Exactly!

And as for Clucas: in a 4-4-2 he would bring the balance that’s arfield used to bring as a wide midfielder Who tucks in.

In the 4-5-1 he could be used in various positions in the centre out wide etc. Assuming we progress in the Europa we potentially have many more games this season, which will require more numbers. This is regardelss of Brady and Defour being fit. This being said I’d like us to bring another centre back in, a striker, a central midfielder, and a winger/no.10 type. I don’t think we will but that’s what I’d like to see brought in.

If Clucas is a target I’d expect him to be the central
Midfielder/wide man. JRod to be a winger/striker so both covered with one less signing and then sign a centre half

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Long Time Lurker » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:05 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:He's a good player, and we wanted him last summer.

The competition for his signature shouldn't be as fierce this time as well.


We wanted Assombalonga last summer who went to Middlesborough and lit up the Championship. We missed out and got Wood instead.

At £12m I suspect the competition for his signature will be non existant.

I would agree with the assessment that he has the potential makings of Arfield Mk2, but slightly younger and a lot more expensive. He would also be another one to swell our ever growing 28-30 year old ranks.

Ki was the best midfielder at Swansea last season and Newcastle picked him up on a free.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby jedi_master » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:10 am

Long Time Lurker wrote:We wanted Assombalonga last summer who went to Middlesborough and lit up the Championship. We missed out and got Wood instead.

At £12m I suspect the competition for his signature will be non existant.

I would agree with the assessment that he has the potential makings of Arfield Mk2, but slightly younger and a lot more expensive. He would also be another one to swell our ever growing 28-30 year old ranks.

Ki was the best midfielder at Swansea last season and Newcastle picked him up on a free.


Is 15 goals in 44 games (for a cost of £15m) ‘lighting up’ a division?

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Hipper » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:13 am

When I saw him for Swansea on TV I thought he had progressed and looked quite effective after Carvalhal came in. He seemed to be more of an attacking midfield player to me.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 am

jedi_master wrote:Is 15 goals in 44 games (for a cost of £15m) ‘lighting up’ a division?


It is on this messageboard if they play for another team.
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:27 am

Murger wrote:So you want me remember how many times I've watched Hull and Swansea on tv?


Well yes if that’s what you are basing your judgement of him never having a good game on.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby cutsy123 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:27 am

Its on sky sports

Another player that doesnt improve our starting 11 but provides back up

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Long Time Lurker » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:31 am

jedi_master wrote:Is 15 goals in 44 games (for a cost of £15m) ‘lighting up’ a division?


No

Rearrange the letters - marcasS

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby claretspice » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:31 am

I said on another thread yesterday that if you look at our squad now against last season, we've lost Arfield, NKoudou and Marney, and are likely to lose Walters given he's seemingly surplus to requirements, from the attacking midfield and wide slots. That's potentially 4 departures from a squad which wasn't especially deep in the first place.

So its no surprise that our summer shopping list might entail a good option in the centre of midfield as well as a wide player - currently, we've 4 central midfielders for what has often been 3 slots, which doesn't exactly leave much margin for error. It might be a surprise if we signed Rodriguez, Clucas and someone like Antonio - all of whom would expect lots of game time straight away - but it would be no surprise to see us bring in 2 players of that ilk, together with someone who is either for the future or an experienced head to add depth.

Clucas is a decent player who is certainly versatile, but also made a decent name for himself at Hull. Certainly, its less than 18 months ago that he rather than Maguire was the Hull player being touted for England honours. If we're looking at playing 4-5-1 this season then we definitely need another option capable of playing in the more advanced roles in the 3; and if we're thinking of playing 4-4-2 then we definitely need another option capable of playing narrow on one flank.

I take the concern about Clucas having some form of injury right now, but leaving that aside he looks to me on paper very much a Dyche-type signing.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby claretspice » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:33 am

MDWat wrote:Wouldn’t mind Clucas. He’s an upgrade on Arfield and can play both wide left and in the centre.

My main reservation is signing someone injured. We did that with Wells last season and that didn’t turn out well.

If Clucas, Dawson and Rodriguez are the sum of our transfer business you’d think we’ve added a lot of Premier League experience but it’s not very exciting. For £50m or so, too.


Not sure under Dyche our business has ever been especially exciting on paper and perhaps that is the point. He doesn't particularly do exciting, he does practical and realistic. And it has worked.
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby taio » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:43 am

I'd be happy with us signing Clucas. Decent player, versatile and seems to fit what Dyche looks for. Would strengthen our squad.
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Paddy1882 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:55 am

If we are going to spend £12m on a player then there is no way he is going to be a “squad player” IMO especially under dyche. Personally think that means he’s our back up for Jay Rod

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby claretspice » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:56 am

Paddy1882 wrote:If we are going to spend £12m on a player then there is no way he is going to be a “squad player” IMO especially under dyche. Personally think that means he’s our back up for Jay Rod


Not sure how you can reach that conclusion when one is broadly speaking, a centre forward - albeit one who can drop deep - and one is a midfielder.

I mean its possible, but its one hell of a leap without hard evidence.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Paddy1882 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:06 am

claretspice wrote:Not sure how you can reach that conclusion when one is broadly speaking, a centre forward - albeit one who can drop deep - and one is a midfielder.

I mean its possible, but its one hell of a leap without hard evidence.


I’m not gonna pretend to know something I don’t because I have zero clue about Burnley transfers..... I just can’t see us getting both and a CB without recouping some decent money first. I hope I’m wrong though.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:09 am

Really underwhelming signing if it happens. A ridiculous amount of money for a player that scored 3 goals last season.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Pearcey » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:13 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:Really underwhelming signing if it happens. A ridiculous amount of money for a player that scored 3 goals last season.

How many goals did our midfielders score? Did any get 3?

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:16 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:Really underwhelming signing if it happens. A ridiculous amount of money for a player that scored 3 goals last season.


Crikey out in force today.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby SGr » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:27 am

Hope Swansea reject it, but from what their fans are saying they’d be more than happy with it. Bang average player, championship level. We insist on shopping in that overpriced league but refuse to go for the BEST players in it.

Jay Rod, Dawson, Clucas are all players we’ve tried and failed to sign before - and they’re all squad players. Just move on ffs. There’s a fire sale at Villa with Grealish available - would be class signing with actual sell on potential and would improve the first team.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve1956 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:30 am

SGr wrote:Hope Swansea reject it, but from what their fans are saying they’d be more than happy with it. Bang average player, championship level. We insist on shopping in that overpriced league but refuse to go for the BEST players in it.

Jay Rod, Dawson, Clucas are all players we’ve tried and failed to sign before - and they’re all squad players. Just move on ffs. There’s a fire sale at Villa with Grealish available - would be class signing with actual sell on potential and would improve the first team.

We have no chance of signing him...no chance... :roll:

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:30 am

Definitely better to trust the fans view of a player over the manager who guided us to a 7th place finish last season.
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby SGr » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:31 am

Steve1956 wrote:We have no chance of signing him...no chance... :roll:


What because a bigger team has been linked? :lol: we’d be the perfect fit for him

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve1956 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:32 am

SGr wrote:What because a bigger team has been linked? :lol: we’d be the perfect fit for him

The fee,wages....not a prayer

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby SGr » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:35 am

Steve1956 wrote:The fee,wages....not a prayer


He’s currently on 25k a week by the looks of things. As for the fee, it’s probably just north of £20m given Villa’s desperation. Worth it.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve1956 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:36 am

SGr wrote:He’s currently on 25k a week by the looks of things. As for the fee, it’s probably just north of £20m given Villa’s desperation. Worth it.

And the you woke up! :D

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Braindead » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:37 am

SGr wrote:Hope Swansea reject it, but from what their fans are saying they’d be more than happy with it. Bang average player, championship level. We insist on shopping in that overpriced league but refuse to go for the BEST players in it.

Jay Rod, Dawson, Clucas are all players we’ve tried and failed to sign before - and they’re all squad players. Just move on ffs. There’s a fire sale at Villa with Grealish available - would be class signing with actual sell on potential and would improve the first team.

You mean you want us to try and sign Jack Grealish who Spurs and Liverpool are battling it out to try and sign? Righto then.
Name some of these best players in the Championship we should be going for. I think our sugnings from that division have been very successful in the main.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby SGr » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:38 am

Braindead wrote:You mean you want us to try and sign Jack Grealish who Spurs and Liverpool are battling it out to try and sign? Righto then


Heard similar regarding Maddison - who then signed for Leicester. Every good player gets linked with those clubs, it’s mostly agent talk.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby claretspice » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:43 am

Apart from anything else, Grealish doesn't really fit the way that Dyche wants Burnley to play.

Strikes me you're running a much bigger argument about what Burnley should try to be, which is well beyond a thread about whether Sam Clucas should be a target. But I'd make three points. Firstly, your argument about signing more exciting players is one that Stoke fans were making a few years ago and that didn't turn out too well. Secondly, if you think the fact that Grealish might be on 25k a week at Villa is any guide to the sort of wages we'd be able to get away with paying him given the other interested parties, you're daft. And finally, the players we've signed from the Championship in recent seasons have all, without exception, been a success (the one that might be debatable is Wells, who we of course signed from a Premier League club). So the bolts of your argument is nonsense.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Newcastleclaret93 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:44 am

Just because a top player is linked with a big team doesn’t mean we shouldn’t attempt the signing.

There have been some top signings.
Who would have thought the following would have happened:

Seri to Fulham (linked with Barca and Chelsea last year)
Maddison to Leicester (linked with spurs)
Rui Patrisio to wolves (linked with United)
Felipe Anderson to West Ham (linked with Monaco)
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:45 am

How do you know which signings we have attempted?

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby SGr » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:57 am

claretspice wrote: Apart from anything else, Grealish doesn't really fit the way that Dyche wants Burnley to play.


That is a fair opinion, although my view is that with Dyche’s willingness to move towards 4-5-1 last season, that sort of player would fit. A debate of its own, however.

Secondly, if you think the fact that Grealish might be on 25k a week at Villa is any guide to the sort of wages we'd be able to get away with paying him given the other interested parties, you're daft.


Disagree. Genuinely unlikely Spurs would pay a young squad player more than our wage cap.

The players we've signed from the Championship in recent seasons have all, without exception, been a success (the one that might be debatable is Wells, who we of course signed from a Premier League club).


Not calling Hendrick for £10.5m a failure or a flop, but I’m not calling him a success either. Sorry :/

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Tuddybfc » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:01 pm

I swear if we were linked with an Andre Bikey return and a bid for ‘young starlet’ Glenn Whelan some people on this board would be happy. The facts are:
• Clucas is not a natural winger, nor a natural 10, he is a central midfielder, not a position I believe we need to strengthen.
• According to Hull, he was poor out wide, so what’s the point paying 12m to play someone out of position.
• He’s 28, if we insist on signing players from the championship you’d hope it’s someone with potential and sell on value.
• It’s confusing that Burnley being so financially cautious shop in the least value for money league in the world in the championship, where prices are sky high for average players, you’ve only got to look at some foreign deals to see that.
• He’s reported injured for the start of the season, so would presumably missing Europa league qualifying rounds 2 and 3, and with JBG still on holiday and Brady not fit at present, we only have Lennon (who didn’t impress towards the end of last season) to play wide, surely we need a fit option ready for those games?
• For 12M and higher wages, is he really a substantial improvement on Arfield? He would be a better central midfielder definitely, but we need a winger, which Arfield naturally was.
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby arise_sir_charge » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:03 pm

“Not calling Hendrick for £10.5m a failure or a flop, but I’m not calling him a success either. Sorry :/”

To be fair we’ve had two decent Premier League seasons out of him and a few goals so £10.5m isn’t bad value at all!

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Duffer_ » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:05 pm

MDWat wrote:My main reservation is signing someone injured. We did that with Wells last season and that didn’t turn out well.


Long Time Lurker wrote:At £12m I suspect the competition for his signature will be non existant.


Both good points. I get that most of our transfer business is pragmatic and has largely been successful but that does not make future signings beyond question/criticism. They're having our pants down at £12m IMO.

UTC!
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby claretspice » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:12 pm

Tuddybfc wrote:I swear if we were linked with an Andre Bikey return and a bid for ‘young starlet’ Glenn Whelan some people on this board would be happy. The facts are:
• Clucas is not a natural winger, nor a natural 10, he is a central midfielder, not a position I believe we need to strengthen.
• According to Hull, he was poor out wide, so what’s the point paying 12m to play someone out of position.
• He’s 28, if we insist on signing players from the championship you’d hope it’s someone with potential and sell on value.
• It’s confusing that Burnley being so financially cautious shop in the least value for money league in the world in the championship, where prices are sky high for average players, you’ve only got to look at some foreign deals to see that.
• He’s reported injured for the start of the season, so would presumably missing Europa league qualifying rounds 2 and 3, and with JBG still on holiday and Brady not fit at present, we only have Lennon (who didn’t impress towards the end of last season) to play wide, surely we need a fit option ready for those games?
• For 12M and higher wages, is he really a substantial improvement on Arfield? He would be a better central midfielder definitely, but we need a winger, which Arfield naturally was.


With the greatest of respect Tuddy, most of that just demonstrates that you don't really understand how our finances currently work.

We don't especially care about sell on value, and we'd rather pay a larger transfer fee now for someone who won't have resale value but will give us reliable, guaranteed service for a few years, than pay a lesser transfer fee for someone we've less guarantees about.

Our strategy is built around maximise the chances of a player giving us 2-3 years of excellent service, whilst keeping the wage bill manageable if we go down. And we don't let short term issues like the Europa League distract us for that. We aren't interested in potential, or promise, we're interested in assured returns. Because the financial value of each year we stay off makes a 12 million capital outlay on Clucas chicken feed in the grand scheme of things.

Its not an exciting strategy, its just a successful one. At times, we've taken our commitment to it a bit far - like when we didn't sign a centre half or wide man at the end of last summer's window. But potentially paying 12m for someone like Clucas is not an example of that. Its a prime example of the sort of signing Dyche has made his reputation on.
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby DCWat » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:14 pm

I’d have been happy with Clucas as a signing last season. Not sure whether he improved or not last season, but we’re not in a massively different position this year to suggest that he wouldnt be a decent signing for us.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Duffer_ » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:24 pm

DCWat wrote:I’d have been happy with Clucas as a signing last season. Not sure whether he improved or not last season, but we’re not in a massively different position this year to suggest that he wouldnt be a decent signing for us.


He's injured, a year older and it's fair to say his stock hasn't risen, whilst ours has. By your reasoning, we'd have been better off keeping Scotty.

UTC!

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Tuddybfc » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:25 pm

claretspice wrote:With the greatest of respect Tuddy, most of that just demonstrates that you don't really understand how our finances currently work.

We don't especially care about sell on value, and we'd rather pay a larger transfer fee now for someone who won't have resale value but will give us reliable, guaranteed service for a few years, than pay a lesser transfer fee for someone we've less guarantees about.

Our strategy is built around maximise the chances of a player giving us 2-3 years of excellent service, whilst keeping the wage bill manageable if we go down. And we don't let short term issues like the Europa League distract us for that. We aren't interested in potential, or promise, we're interested in assured returns. Because the financial value of each year we stay off makes a 12 million capital outlay on Clucas chicken feed in the grand scheme of things.

Its not an exciting strategy, its just a successful one. At times, we've taken our commitment to it a bit far - like when we didn't sign a centre half or wide man at the end of last summer's window. But potentially paying 12m for someone like Clucas is not an example of that. Its a prime example of the sort of signing Dyche has made his reputation on.


Signings like Keane, Gray, Tarkowski, Ings, Trippier (albeit some of these didn’t turn out as well as hoped) suggest we do care about sell on value. Granted less so now we are in a more financially stable position but still think it should be considered. I wouldn’t say Clucas is at all reliable or an assured return on the pitch out wide however, he’s naturally a centre mid, more defensive than offensive. Just don’t think he’s the player we need right now, if we needed cover for Cork then great, but we don’t, we need a natural winger

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Tall Paul
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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Tall Paul » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:35 pm

Tuddybfc wrote:Signings like Keane, Gray, Tarkowski, Ings, Trippier (albeit some of these didn’t turn out as well as hoped) suggest we do care about sell on value.


All but one of those were signed when we were a Championship club.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby claretspice » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:35 pm

The difference being that we signed all of those players, except Keane, when we were in the Championship, not when we were about to go into our 3rd successive season in the Premier League and about to contend on more fronts than we ever have before. If and when we go down, the model will have to change again. But for now, we're interested in players who have the track record to come in and do a job, hitting the ground running. Mike Garlick has given about 3 different interviews this summer when he's explained our strategy and the sorts of players we go for, and why. I've pretty much summarised them above.

We might need a winger, but we also need someone who can play a particular narrow role in a 4-4-2, and who can give us another option in the centre of midfield - and who, equally importantly, will fit in with the spirit and ethos of the club. We've lost 2 central midfielders since the end of last season and so its easy to see why Dyche might regard that as a priority.

we'd all love exciting, imaginative signings of creative, attacking players who get the pulse racing. But that's not the approach that got us to where we are now, and anyone who seriously thinks we should ditch the approach that got us here and do something completely different is, I think, a little bit nuts. So it'll be the sort of players who Dyche likes, who are also the sorts of players who fit with Garlick's financial policies.

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Tuddybfc » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:40 pm

Tall Paul wrote:All but one of those were signed when we were a Championship club.

Hence I said less important nowadays but should still be considered

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Re: Sam clucas

Postby Tuddybfc » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:44 pm

claretspice wrote:The difference being that we signed all of those players, except Keane, when we were in the Championship, not when we were about to go into our 3rd successive season in the Premier League and about to contend on more fronts than we ever have before. If and when we go down, the model will have to change again. But for now, we're interested in players who have the track record to come in and do a job, hitting the ground running. Mike Garlick has given about 3 different interviews this summer when he's explained our strategy and the sorts of players we go for, and why. I've pretty much summarised them above.

We might need a winger, but we also need someone who can play a particular narrow role in a 4-4-2, and who can give us another option in the centre of midfield - and who, equally importantly, will fit in with the spirit and ethos of the club. We've lost 2 central midfielders since the end of last season and so its easy to see why Dyche might regard that as a priority.

we'd all love exciting, imaginative signings of creative, attacking players who get the pulse racing. But that's not the approach that got us to where we are now, and anyone who seriously thinks we should ditch the approach that got us here and do something completely different is, I think, a little bit nuts. So it'll be the sort of players who Dyche likes, who are also the sorts of players who fit with Garlick's financial policies.


Nice optimistic point of ‘when we go down’

I think saying we lost 2 central midfielders is pushing it a bit when Arfield was a natural winger and Dean Marney hadn’t played at all last season. We have 4 centre mids, all capable at premier league level yet only 3 wingers, 1 who didn’t impress and didn’t seem to fit the style of play last season, one on holiday and one still on his way back from injury, so I’d rather have a natural winger than a central midfielder.


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