Tom Ince drops back into the championship with Stoke.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:09 pm

Seems an odd move for him, I thought he did ok last season?

£10 million rising to £12 million with add-ons.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:17 pm

What it would be like to spend money

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:29 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:What it would be like to spend money

I'm just hoping Sean doesn't start thinking the same thing.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:33 pm

Tom Ince is a great player if the game lasts 10mins.
But fair play to him hes carving out a nice living with clubs willing to accept that the rest of the team will have to work without him for most of the match

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:39 pm

Always makes me laugh remembering him being driven round the different club by his dad the other season

It was like a student & parent looking at which university he was going to go to

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:40 pm

Buxtonclaret wrote:I'm just hoping Sean doesn't start thinking the same thing.

I think SD is as bad as Mike Garlick when it comes to spending money. It is an embarassment that we have not been able to get one target in yet

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:44 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I think SD is as bad as Mike Garlick when it comes to spending money. It is an embarassment that we have not been able to get one target in yet

LOLZ

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:00 pm

Dyched wrote:LOLZ

I know it is not popular to have a go at the board but surely you must agree this has been a poor window. Yes two and a bit weeks left but what annoys me most is the lack of forward planning. Yes we are linked with Mawson, Dawson and Jay Rod which I understand take time but where are the younger lads we should be trying to recruit...the next layer if you will. Taking a chance on a couple of unpolished diamonds in the lower leagues.....look at the centre halves Barnsley have churned out these last couple of years and the Charlton academy products. A few of these and tbere wouldnt be the urgent need to get the big names in but as it is they are our only option.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:03 pm

I'm taking a wild shot in the dark but the academies at Barnsley and Charlton have been operating at a decent standard for a lot longer than ours.

As for complaining about Dyche, he tells the board who he wants and lets them get on with it, however what do you think is a reasonable price for Dawson and Jay?
We nearly got Dawson for just a couple of million a few years ago and now they want 5-6 times as much...

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:06 pm

I think we got roughly 45 million for Gray and Keane. Jay Rod and Dawson ate going for 40 million a year on. Now we are told market prices increase year on year yet we are paying less for a year on for two players who have proven themselves a lot longer at the top level than the former 2 whose value we deemed to be more. I understand age and so on but factoring in the market increase I dont think that is a bad trade. 40 million sounds a lot but that is the going rate when you have clubs willing to pay 10 million for Tom Ince and 9 million for Chancel Mbemba

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:10 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I know it is not popular to have a go at the board but surely you must agree this has been a poor window. Yes two and a bit weeks left but what annoys me most is the lack of forward planning. Yes we are linked with Mawson, Dawson and Jay Rod which I understand take time but where are the younger lads we should be trying to recruit...the next layer if you will. Taking a chance on a couple of unpolished diamonds in the lower leagues.....look at the centre halves Barnsley have churned out these last couple of years and the Charlton academy products. A few of these and tbere wouldnt be the urgent need to get the big names in but as it is they are our only option.

Its not that easy though is it. You’ve mentioned things take time and that’s true. We have certain limits we’ll go to wages/fees wise. Other clubs go in paying over the odds. We don’t, never will. It’s worked for us before and will again.

As for young players. That also isn’t easy. We’ll have limits to what were willing to spend on that to.

Do you not think the club would love to 5 17 year old Defours? 4 Tarkowskis and maybe 47 16 year old Lionel Messis??

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:17 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I think SD is as bad as Mike Garlick when it comes to spending money. It is an embarassment that we have not been able to get one target in yet

Believe me that's not the case at all regarding Dyche

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:18 pm

Dyched wrote:Its not that easy though is it. You’ve mentioned things take time and that’s true. We have certain limits we’ll go to wages/fees wise. Other clubs go in paying over the odds. We don’t, never will. It’s worked for us before and will again.

As for young players. That also isn’t easy. We’ll have limits to what were willing to spend on that to.

Do you not think the club would love to 5 17 year old Defours? 4 Tarkowskis and maybe 47 16 year old Lionel Messis??

I get the wages and tbe constraints we put on ourselves which I fully agree with and makes me proud to support our club. But we must know when submitting bids what kind of wage the player will be after. This is where i think we have a little big headedness about us and think if you will that an omelette a month down the line at SDs house will suddenly make the player drop his demands by 20/30k. We need to grow up a little. If prem players want too much to sign for us we shop in the Championship. When these players a la Terry, Assombolnga can get paid more there we need to look elsewhere. There isnt only 2 leagues in the entire world

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:19 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I think we got roughly 45 million for Gray and Keane. Jay Rod and Dawson ate going for 40 million a year on. Now we are told market prices increase year on year yet we are paying less for a year on for two players who have proven themselves a lot longer at the top level than the former 2 whose value we deemed to be more. I understand age and so on but factoring in the market increase I dont think that is a bad trade. 40 million sounds a lot but that is the going rate when you have clubs willing to pay 10 million for Tom Ince and 9 million for Chancel Mbemba

We got a very good price for Keane and Gray, who with the right set ups/managers can do the job.

Dawson is ok as a defender, but he's nothing spectacular.
Jay Rod is a proven goal scorer at this level so he is going to cost a bit, plus he's still got 3 years on his WBA contract, which I'm guessing you don't factor in?

wickdkewlclaret · Post by **wickdkewlclaret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:20 pm

He’s markedly better than anyone we’ve signed so far this transfer window!

I would be happy with any signing at the minute, could Kevin Philips be tempted to come back from retirement?

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:20 pm

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:Believe me that's not the case at all regarding Dyche

Come on i love SD and would let him impregnate my wife if he wanted but he is tight as a ducks backside. £3.5m a year and still sharing a flat with his assistant to split the cost. Bet he even times Woany in the shower to make sure he isnt using too much water

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:21 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I get the wages and tbe constraints we put on ourselves which I fully agree with and makes me proud to support our club. But we must know when submitting bids what kind of wage the player will be after. This is where i think we have a little big headedness about us and think if you will that an omelette a month down the line at SDs house will suddenly make the player drop his demands by 20/30k. We need to grow up a little. If prem players want too much to sign for us we shop in the Championship. When these players a la Terry, Assombolnga can get paid more there we need to look elsewhere. There isnt only 2 leagues in the entire world

We can't always know what a player wants in wages until an offer is accepted.
We break the rules asking the players or agents first.

If a player would rather stay in the championship on more money then that's fine, we don't need them.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:21 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Come on i love SD and would let him impregnate my wife if he wanted but he is tight as a ducks backside. £3.5m a year and still sharing a flat with his assistant to split the cost. Bet he even times Woany in the shower to make sure he isnt using too much water

He isn't tight, the board decide what to spend.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:We got a very good price for Keane and Gray, who with the right set ups/managers can do the job.

Dawson is ok as a defender, but he's nothing spectacular.
Jay Rod is a proven goal scorer at this level so he is going to cost a bit, plus he's still got 3 years on his WBA contract, which I'm guessing you don't factor in?

All I am saying is everyone knows how much WBA want. Its 40m. We either pay it or we dont. But if we arent going to pay it dont hang about thinking they are suddenly going to ring us up saying " oh mike we are sorry, we really need your money.....please just offer us 30 instead, we bow to your recruitment expertise, we were wrong not to take your first offer". It isnt going to happen. It takes a week max to know the lay of the land. We have had 8 weeks? Now and still havent got one target through the door.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:28 pm

I'd love to sell you a car or better yet a house.

You'd be a complete sucker and pay whatever I asked

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:37 pm

How is that? There is a thing called market value....everyone can hazard a guess at a players value from experience/ ability/ how far they can go. Most would be right on most players with a few million. Then there are the silly values which you just stay from as the price is set to stop anyone going for them. The point i am trying to make is if they are silly values you move on. If you are within a few million and there is a possible bite. Sometimes you just have to pay the extra. No club will ever always get the best out of every deal they do.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:41 pm

Market value?

What would you value Richarlison at then?

What do you value Jay at?
Dawson?

You're avoiding their values for some reason.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:42 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:He isn't tight, the board decide what to spend.

I get this but as alluded to in interviews SD will not sign fringe players until his main targets are signed. So I would say his pot is greater than the value of his main targets as he will have a value in his head, hence submitting an A,B,C list to the board. Surely though if the board went to SD and said right we have got your 2 main targets in and paid a little over so you will have to trim your fringe players list by one he would be accepting of this as our fringe players are always just that.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:45 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Market value?

What would you value Richarlison at then?

What do you value Jay at?
Dawson?

You're avoiding their values for some reason.

My opinions on value

Jay Rod 16-18 million

Dawson 10-12 million

Richarlison no more than 15 million for me. Goes hiding and didnt do much after his first 10 games

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:48 pm

Whenever I think of Richarlison I think back to when one of our players tackled him and he must have rolled over about 6 times as if he had been shot

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:51 pm

I've never seen him allude to that, nor seen that mentioned on here either until your comment.

However isn't it more important to sign his preferred targets first?

As for prices etc, the board and Dyche will agree a budget and I suspect Dyche's targets will be based on that budget.

If a club decides they want more than our budget will allow then we won't pay it.
That isn't the fault of Dyche.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:52 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:My opinions on value

Jay Rod 16-18 million

Dawson 10-12 million

Richarlison no more than 15 million for me. Goes hiding and didnt do much after his first 10 games

Yet he's going for the 'market value' of £40-50 million.

Your value of the other two is £10 million less than what WBA want, so would you just pay up the extra £10 million?

Jay has 3 years left on his deal and you value him at what WBA paid for him...

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:55 pm

No I would walk away. This is my point!!!! The board need to have the balls to say to SD look this isnt going to happen. Then go for another player. There are not only two leagues in the entire world that have players capable of pulling on the claret and blue

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:59 pm

mkmel wrote:Whenever I think of Richarlison I think back to when one of our players tackled him and he must have rolled over about 6 times as if he had been shot

It comes from having Neymar as a role model

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:06 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I think we got roughly 45 million for Gray and Keane. Jay Rod and Dawson ate going for 40 million a year on. Now we are told market prices increase year on year yet we are paying less for a year on for two players who have proven themselves a lot longer at the top level than the former 2 whose value we deemed to be more. I understand age and so on but factoring in the market increase I dont think that is a bad trade. 40 million sounds a lot but that is the going rate when you have clubs willing to pay 10 million for Tom Ince and 9 million for Chancel Mbemba

The trouble is that Rodriguez and Dawson represent worse value for money than Gray and Keane.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:07 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:No I would walk away. This is my point!!!! The board need to have the balls to say to SD look this isnt going to happen. Then go for another player. There are not only two leagues in the entire world that have players capable of pulling on the claret and blue

So you won't negotiate is what you're saying?

I've changed my mind about selling you a house or car.

The board are backing their manager, something you say they aren't doing and now you want them to grow a set and tell him to sod off when it comes to certain players.

Next time you start a thread can I suggest you get your story straight first...

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:08 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I know it is not popular to have a go at the board but surely you must agree this has been a poor window. Yes two and a bit weeks left but what annoys me most is the lack of forward planning. Yes we are linked with Mawson, Dawson and Jay Rod which I understand take time but where are the younger lads we should be trying to recruit...the next layer if you will. Taking a chance on a couple of unpolished diamonds in the lower leagues.....look at the centre halves Barnsley have churned out these last couple of years and the Charlton academy products. A few of these and tbere wouldnt be the urgent need to get the big names in but as it is they are our only option.

There are plenty of our rivals in a similar position to us.
People are not selling until they have replacements signed up.
The transfer market seems exceptionally stagnant at the moment.
Not helped of course by the world cup and the early deadline day.
We will make signings bit they will be last minute and with fees above market value

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:08 pm

Negotiate but not for 8 weeks!!!!

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:10 pm

Damo wrote:There are plenty of our rivals in a similar position to us.
People are not selling until they have replacements signed up.
The transfer market seems exceptionally stagnant at the moment.
Not helped of course by the world cup and the early deadline day.
We will make signings bit they will be last minute and with fees above market value

Agree Damo mainly. But only us Spurs and Everton havent signed anyone. Seems the other 17 clubs arent having to wait around for players to sign and so on

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:12 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:So you won't negotiate is what you're saying?

I've changed my mind about selling you a house or car.

The board are backing their manager, something you say they aren't doing and now you want them to grow a set and tell him to sod off when it comes to certain players.

Next time you start a thread can I suggest you get your story straight first...

How are they backing their manager by not getting anyone in. I am not sure but I am pretty positive SD didnt say "right Mike before you sign anyone on my list of targets I have to have Dawson and Jay Rod".

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:24 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:How are they backing their manager by not getting anyone in. I am not sure but I am pretty positive SD didnt say "right Mike before you sign anyone on my list of targets I have to have Dawson and Jay Rod".

How do you know what his list of targets is?

If he's only told them he wants those two players....

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:36 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Tom Ince is a great player if the game lasts 10mins.
But fair play to him hes carving out a nice living with clubs willing to accept that the rest of the team will have to work without him for most of the match

Hes not prem quality

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:52 pm

cutsy123 wrote:Hes not prem quality

Hes not Championship quality ha ha

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:53 pm

Him and Mclean on the flanks next year feeding Beranhio....gonna have some defences quaking in their boots ha ha

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:59 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Agree Damo mainly. But only us Spurs and Everton havent signed anyone. Seems the other 17 clubs arent having to wait around for players to sign and so on

Thought Everton just signed Richarlison so only us and spuds bereft of incomers thus far,how many of those clubs are paying over the odds in fees and wages,quite a lot i'd wager.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:04 pm

tiger76 wrote:Thought Everton just signed Richarlison so only us and spuds bereft of incomers thus far,how many of those clubs are paying over the odds in fees and wages,quite a lot i'd wager.

But if all clubs are paying over the odds then all clubs selling players are also recieving over the odds fees. Basic maths

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:29 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I think SD is as bad as Mike Garlick when it comes to spending money. It is an embarassment that we have not been able to get one target in yet

Nope.
I'm not at all embarrassed.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:31 pm

You're losing me now.

Do you want us to pay over the odds for Jay and Dawson or stick to your valuation of about £30 million for the pair?

If you want us to pay over the odds you really need to stop lamenting the fact that clubs are paying over the odds.

If you don't want us to pay over the odds then stop bitching that we aren't paying over the odds.

Make your mind up..

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:38 pm

I want us to sign players. Mid season I guarantee the line "well they havent had a proper SD preseason" will be rolled out. We all know the kmportance of that and how integral it is for players to integrate. This is why the board should recognise that this extra couple of weeks with the squad is vital and worth an extra couple of million (not saying Dawson and Jay Rod should be here though, values dont meet we move on)

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:53 pm

The values might meet eventually though.

WBA will want to replace any outgoings, especially with Rondon a target for PL clubs.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:56 pm

We've got Daniel Agiey he comes cheap it could just be his year!

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:22 am

Cleveleys_claret wrote:I think SD is as bad as Mike Garlick when it comes to spending money. It is an embarassment that we have not been able to get one target in yet

I cannot think of 1 reason why anyone would be enbrassed of Burnley Football Club right now.

(Excluding reading your post)

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:06 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'd love to sell you a car or better yet a house.

You'd be a complete sucker and pay whatever I asked

But the thing is, you don't want to sell your car, so you gave us a figure you wouldn't turn down.

Maybe offer £38m if they really want them, otherwise just say that you don't think they are good enough and move on. I personally feel the time has come to be more open about transfer dealings, especially when the rumour mill is in full flow - it'd stop a little of the frustration.

cockneyclaret · Post by **cockneyclaret** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:23 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Come on i love SD and would let him impregnate my wife if he wanted but he is tight as a ducks backside. £3.5m a year and still sharing a flat with his assistant to split the cost. Bet he even times Woany in the shower to make sure he isnt using too much water

Hahaha that really made me laugh..
Probably buys Tesco value stuff but owns a 30k watch!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:23 pm

Given the choice of being embarrassed because we haven't signed anyone, or being embarrassed because we paid £10m for Tom Ince, I choose the former.