Dyche: We may have to break the bank

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:21 am

SkiptonClaret wrote:Midfielder. The frankly overated Defour spends most of his time injured, can never get him on the pitch consistently.

This is straight into this summers top 10 ULTIMATE WHINGE LIST

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:23 am

SkiptonClaret wrote:Yeah, absolutely. Can never get him on the pitch on a regular basis and on the occasions we have he must have been subbed early in a significant percentage.

Did you miss last season up until he did get injured.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:25 am

Bfcboyo wrote:Did you miss last season up until he did get injured.

So that's Dyche and Defour he doesn't like... I wonder who he actually DOES like?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:29 am

Iwelumo and Laws helped feed his natural desire to only be happy when it rains.

SparkyClaret · Post by **SparkyClaret** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:58 am

Long Time Lurker wrote:Peter Fallacious Crouch

Wasn't he the little dude who sat on Jabba the Hutt's shoulder?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:10 am

One major change in the market that seems to be overlooked is that relegated players seem to retain their value. Our targets seem to prove this.

In the past relegated clubs were the place to look for a bargain.

It suggests that in the event we are relegated we will still have plenty of very valuable sellable assets and therefore the risk of spending a little more now is reduced.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:20 am

Despite the vast sums of money sloshing around, I still believe that our market should be, in the main, players that we expect to be able to sell on at a profit (be they British or foreign). Hakim Zayek (sp) being a good potential example from last year.

Despite all of the money coming in, we still struggle to compete financially and therefore any additional money that we can bring in through sales, is a bonus to add to the pot.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:28 am

I'm absolutely amazed that a 4-page thread hasn't yet descended into a slanging match. There's actually some good, reasoned debate.

Anyway, I don't think money (transfer fees or wages) is the main issue - though it may be a contributing factor since some clubs are seemingly prepared to spend an awful lot more. I'm also of the opinion that Dyche's thin shortlist of players is the problem (admittedly only a problem if we don't make the signings we all know we need). It may be that we end up bringing them in but simply had to wait longer to get the deals over the line. However, with regard to Dawson and Rodriguez, we've dealt with West Brom before and they've been very awkward indeed.

I do wish we'd seriously invest in an international scouting system. We complain about UK player transfer fees and wages going up season on season but limit ourselves (for the most part) to that market. If we do it right, we could get much more value abroad. But perhaps it's just too risky for us to do on a more regular basis.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:35 am

Its obvious we need Putin on the board. He would bring in lots and lots of dosh and maybe get rid of a few competitors as well. Seriously though it looks like we need a rich investor if we want to stay in the Premier League. We are locally owned, which is great, we have a good business model too, but that may not be enough to keep us where we are given the profligate, inflated spending of our rivals.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:35 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:One major change in the market that seems to be overlooked is that relegated players seem to retain their value. Our targets seem to prove this.

In the past relegated clubs were the place to look for a bargain.

It suggests that in the event we are relegated we will still have plenty of very valuable sellable assets and therefore the risk of spending a little more now is reduced.

No it’s just us who sell cheap when relegated

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:35 am

Its obvious we need Putin on the board. He would bring in lots and lots of dosh and maybe get rid of a few competitors as well. Seriously though it looks like we need a rich investor if we want to stay in the Premier League. We are locally owned, which is great, we have a good business model too, but that may not be enough to keep us where we are given the profligate, inflated spending of our rivals.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:38 am

joey13 wrote:No it’s just us who sell cheap when relegated

Who did we sell too cheap when we were last relegated?

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:58 am

“I’ve only been doing it seven years, at at the beginning, when the agent said ‘okay’, that was it. Now that doesn’t exist. Now it’s ‘yeah, we want to do it’, and telling someone else they want to do it, until it pushes and pushes it.

This is the most important sentence from the article and highlights in plain English where our problem lies. We're a makeweight for players and agents alike - simple as that. Agents know they can get their players more money from pretty much anyone else in the Premier League. That's our problem. Even though we finished 7th and we're in the Europa League we are still a very small fish in a very big pond.

If we agreed a deal and contract for Mawson but his agent touted him out to others, which is clearly what happened, then what can we do? Fulham came to the table so late in the day. It was Burnley or West Ham for weeks and then all of a sudden Fulham appeared. I'm willing to believe that's purely down to an agent contacting several other clubs (via other agents no doubt) and sharing the details of our agreement. Fulham realised they could beat us on wages and the rest is history.

It sucks but at least we know what the issue is now. It's not the board, it's not the manager... it's the current marketplace. We will find it very difficult to get any deals over the line this summer; certainly for players who will improve the first 11. It's a massive shame but maybe, just maybe, we've hit our ceiling.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:00 am

I took from the OP article that it is not only money (transfer fees and wages) that is the issue - we knew it would be surely - but the duplicity of some clubs or individuals. He talks of 'a gentleman’s agreement appears to be a thing of the past' and 'when the agent said ‘okay’, that was it. Now that doesn’t exist. Now it’s ‘yeah, we want to do it’, and telling someone else they want to do it, until it pushes and pushes it. And the clubs are the same.'

One presumes it's all about money still - better offers - but if you are a gentleman and believe in gentlemanly qualities then it makes things difficult.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:01 am

So we are the only club in the Premier League unable to deal with the current marketplace ?

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:02 am

fidelcastro wrote:Who did we sell too cheap when we were last relegated?

What you don’t know , thought you were a fan

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:03 am

I am, and that's why I suspect you're making stuff up.

Clevedon Claret · Post by **Clevedon Claret** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:07 am

jlup1980 wrote:“I’ve only been doing it seven years, at at the beginning, when the agent said ‘okay’, that was it. Now that doesn’t exist. Now it’s ‘yeah, we want to do it’, and telling someone else they want to do it, until it pushes and pushes it.

This is the most important sentence from the article and highlights in plain English where our problem lies. We're a makeweight for players and agents alike - simple as that. Agents know they can get their players more money from pretty much anyone else in the Premier League. That's our problem. Even though we finished 7th and we're in the Europa League we are still a very small fish in a very big pond.

If we agreed a deal and contract for Mawson but his agent touted him out to others, which is clearly what happened, then what can we do? Fulham came to the table so late in the day. It was Burnley or West Ham for weeks and then all of a sudden Fulham appeared. I'm willing to believe that's purely down to an agent contacting several other clubs (via other agents no doubt) and sharing the details of our agreement. Fulham realised they could beat us on wages and the rest is history.

It sucks but at least we know what the issue is now. It's not the board, it's not the manager... it's the current marketplace. We will find it very difficult to get any deals over the line this summer; certainly for players who will improve the first 11. It's a massive shame but maybe, just maybe, we've hit our ceiling.

That's probably how we got Andre Gray

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:07 am

fidelcastro wrote:I am, and that's why I suspect you're making stuff up.

I suggest you check it out

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:09 am

joey13 wrote:I suggest you check it out

Check what out?

I'll ask you again... who did we sell too cheaply when we were last relegated?

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:20 am

ksrclaret wrote:I think we’ll find it a hell of a lot easier to recruit when Dyche eventually leaves.

I dont think its all Dyche but we certainly need a re think going forward.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:21 am

randomclaret2 wrote:So we are the only club in the Premier League unable to deal with the current marketplace ?

Yeah looks that way only us and spurs not strengthened but i think they will be ok as had about 12 players at the world cup.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:26 am

Bfcboyo wrote:Did you miss last season up until he did get injured.

Ok how many games has he played in the 2 seasons he has been here as i would like to know and by the looks of it will not be ready for the start of this season also.

RicardoMontalban · Post by **RicardoMontalban** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:27 am

fidelcastro wrote:Check what out?

I'll ask you again... who did we sell too cheaply when we were last relegated?

At a guess I think he’s referring to Kieran release clause Trippier, or Danny not sold but compensated for Ings.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:29 am

We need to be shopping far more in the Lower leagues where we would be a big fish.

There's a lot of good players there who could make the step up - we're a prime example of that

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:43 am

It's clear it is difficult for us to compete in the PL marketplace. We've had years to try and invest in and build up overseas recruitment. It's astounding we havnt since Garlick operates in that market.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:43 am

SkiptonClaret wrote:Midfielder. The frankly overated Defour spends most of his time injured, can never get him on the pitch consistently.

He’s had some flak, but I sort of see where Skipton is coming from.

I don’t think Defour is overrated. He’s got bags of ability. However, his contribution to the team in his first two seasons has been patchy.

His first season was hit and miss, with him virtually disappearing after Christmas. Last season he was excellent until the injury in January. He’s not played a game so far this preseason and looks set to struggle to be up to speed in time to claim a starting spot in the opening games.

I hope we finally get a full season out of him, but you wouldn’t be surprised if the reluctance to trigger the extra year on his contract is due to concerns about his ability to stay fit.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:45 am

My issue is when Defour inevitably leaves I can just see us going after another workhorse (ie: Sam Clucas), as opposed to someone with equal ability.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:01 am

If you look at his appearance stats for other clubs he has had an injury blighted career. I think it is good for us he has stopped at playing for Belgium. I wonder what we paid in wages for Walters and Marney last year when we had no return on the pitch.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:03 am

I have said it several times on this forum a Fully Fit Steven Defour wouldn't be playing at Burnley and he'd cost a hell of a lot more than the £8 million we paid. We took the risk on his already poor injury record and I think its been worthwhile because he was a major player during the first half of last season which for all intents and purposes had us safe by Christmas.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:18 am

I'm not going to panic unless the transfer window closes and we haven't signed anyone but if that does happen I would be extremely worried. If Heaton, Pope, Defour, Brady, Barnes, JBG and Wood get further injuries or can't get back to full fitness we'd be in **** Street.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:20 am

randomclaret2 wrote:So we are the only club in the Premier League unable to deal with the current marketplace ?

Pretty much yes... and almost certainly if everyone else (including clubs like Huddersfield, Brighton, Wolves and Fulham) is happy to pay more in wages than we are. Look back at our deals over the past few years.

Wood, Brady, Hendrick, Tarky, Barnes, Westwood, Taylor, JBG, Ward, Pope, Heaton, Wells, Gray etc all have the same thing in common; we offered them a step up in league or in promotion chances.

The only players who've signed from other PL clubs have basically done so because they were deemed surplus to requirements by their previous employer (Lennon, Walters, Bardsley).

The only real exception to the rule is probably Jack Cork.

None of this is a negative might I add; it only goes to prove just how well we've done in the market. We are still punching well above our weight!

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:25 am

So why arent we following the pattern of previous seasons instead of banging our head against a brick wall trying to compete with other Premier League clubs on fees and wages ? We should be looking at the best young players in the Championship and abroad.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:37 am

randomclaret2 wrote:So why arent we following the pattern of previous seasons instead of banging our head against a brick wall trying to compete with other Premier League clubs on fees and wages ? We should be looking at the best young players in the Championship and abroad.

Because they're burying their heads in the sand or just want to complain about the cost of buying players. I'm really surprised with what appears to be our attitude towards transfers with all the money we've supposedly banked finishing seventh last season. I hope our penny pinching doesn't come back to bite us if we get a few long term injuries. All last seasons good work could be ruined in one bad season.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:42 am

Why are people wondering why we don't look at the foreign market when Dyche himself would rather use British players?

I doubt our overseas scouting network is unlikely to change much as long as SD is in charge. He trusts British players (& Irish ones even more so

) so why spend extra funds looking abroad?

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:47 am

Spijed wrote:Why are people wondering why we don't look at the foreign market when Dyche himself would rather use British players?

I doubt our overseas scouting network is unlikely to change much as long as SD is in charge. He trusts British players (& Irish ones even more so ) so why spend extra funds looking abroad?

But that can only get you so far as all the better british players are already in the top 6 squads.

Shambolic window so far as i think we need 5 and 5 who would be starters not bench warmers.

We have the money but also like last season seem unable to spend it.

We actually made money from last seasons sales to transfers so still have last seasons budget to spend.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:47 am

Spijed wrote:Why are people wondering why we don't look at the foreign market when Dyche himself would rather use British players?

I doubt our overseas scouting network is unlikely to change much as long as SD is in charge. He trusts British players (& Irish ones even more so ) so why spend extra funds looking abroad?

Because he can't find or get the British players he wants

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:52 am

Firthy wrote:Because he can't find or get the British players he wants

He's so precise in what he wants it's going to be even more difficult getting foreign players in.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:54 am

Am I the only poster who's basically happy with what we have now?

Same as what got us into Europe last time out, with the bonus of having got shut of Arfield, and two great prospects in Dunne and O'Neill genuinely in the frame....and with key personnel coming back from injury. The only question mark being around the replacement of Mee if he's not fully on board.

Is it me??

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:54 am

Spijed wrote:Why are people wondering why we don't look at the foreign market when Dyche himself would rather use British players?

I doubt our overseas scouting network is unlikely to change much as long as SD is in charge. He trusts British players (& Irish ones even more so ) so why spend extra funds looking abroad?

He's using the extra funds to buy (haha) British players. So why not invest it in the scouting network instead of complaining about the market all the time.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:54 am

That is exactly what people are saying on here then go into the foreign market - we first got promoted in 2009 and nothing has changed on foreign scouting and we are 9 years down the road.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:56 am

SalisburyClaret wrote:We need to be shopping far more in the Lower leagues where we would be a big fish.

There's a lot of good players there who could make the step up - we're a prime example of that

Surprised we have not been linked with more lower league players at the moment.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:57 am

JohnDearyMe wrote:Surprised we have not been linked with more lower league players at the moment.

We have dawson and jay who are now lower league players - but i would not pay 40 million for the pair so glad we are not.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:59 am

BOYSIE31 wrote:That is exactly what people are saying on here then go into the foreign market - we first got promoted in 2009 and nothing has changed on foreign scouting and we are 9 years down the road.

Nine years down the road and in a better position than ever due to using British players because he's very comfortable operating in that market.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Murger wrote:He's using the extra funds to buy (haha) British players. So why not invest it in the scouting network instead of complaining about the market all the time.

I suspect he doesn't trust the foreign market that much.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:06 pm

He doesnt sound very comfortable operating in this market in his last couple of interviews...

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:08 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:as i think we need 5 and 5 who would be starters not bench warmers.

which current 5 starters need replacing?

bpgburn · Post by **bpgburn** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:10 pm

MRG wrote:Then surely it’s time to move away from the local supporters running a local club mentality and actively seek foreign investment

Yep, it's got us nowhere so far..

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:12 pm

jlup1980 wrote:If we agreed a deal and contract for Mawson but his agent touted him out to others, which is clearly what happened, then what can we do? Fulham came to the table so late in the day. It was Burnley or West Ham for weeks and then all of a sudden Fulham appeared. I'm willing to believe that's purely down to an agent contacting several other clubs (via other agents no doubt) and sharing the details of our agreement. Fulham realised they could beat us on wages and the rest is history.

The simple thing we can do is put a timeframe on the offer. It is an offer valid for 48 hours and if not accepted it expires and we move on.

I don't think the big issue is our lack of money, I think it is Dyche's naivety based on his view of common decency that agents and players clearly do not share.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:14 pm

We don't need 5 new starters. It's more about the depth (bench options) that need improving. If we had somebody who can play behind Wood who is better than Hendrick, we'd be currently fine for our starting 11, assuming Heaton will be back sometime soon.

But we'd be desperately lacking if (although I think it's more a case of, when) we get more injuries. We're seriously lacking in depth. So 4-5 players, yes, improving the bench is just as important.