Dyche: Difficult to compete with transfers long term

[ClaretAndJew]

Merge with the other thread but I think this is an important article just published in the LT :

SEAN Dyche admits Burnley will struggle to compete with the rest of the Premier League long-term if the transfer market continues to rocket and the club’s prudent policy doesn’t move forward.

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The Clarets have been hit by a summer of frustration and with just seven days of the window remaining Dyche is yet to add to his squad.

Burnley have found it a difficult balancing act in recent years in recruiting for the Premier League while refusing to put the club’s future at risk.

That has become even more difficult this summer, with moves for West Brom duo Craig Dawson and Jay Rodriguez and Swansea pair Alfie Mawson and Sam Clucas yet to materialise.

Meanwhile Dyche has had to watch clubs such as Brighton and Fulham splash the cash ahead of the new season.

“Brighton’s owner is very wealthy, Fulham’s owner I’m told virtually a billionaire. There’s no jealousy,” Dyche said of those two clubs. “They’ve all got their own ideas of what they want to do. I want to do a bit of that but I wouldn’t do it at the cost of a club, it’s just not right.

“The challenge is opening the club’s mind enough to go some way to keep up, because the whole of the football business is saying ‘all the best with that, we’re going up here’. Stretch and not break. It’s not easy.”

With the market taking steps forward every summer, Burnley could find themselves left behind at some stage.

Asked if clubs like Burnley could compete at this level long-term, Dyche said: “It’s tough. Probably, no. The market will probably outrun you at some point. Possibly, yes, football is weird like that. You can throw everything at the pitch and it doesn’t work.

“There are new investors coming into clubs across the land, there are plenty of stories not so good. This club doesn’t want to be one of the not-so-good stories.

“The challenge is how far you stretch it to allow us to continue moving forward, and keep progressing and challenging at the top level. That’s the tough side of it, finding that balance.”

Burnley began the summer in a position of strength, with another pot of Premier League cash in the bank and European football an added attraction.

That has made little difference in recruiting the targets Dyche wants, but asked if failing to strengthen in this window would represent a missed opportunity, the Clarets chief added: “It’s not about that. You only miss an opportunity if you’ve got a lot of money and you throw it around.

“The opportunity has to be right for the club and if it’s not right that’s the way it goes. There’s no point overthinking it, I could tell you I’ve got £100m to spend, but I haven’t, and I haven’t any year.

“We continue to work with the players we’ve got, who finished seventh in the Premier League. We want to support those players and get more of a competitive edge.”

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Of potential deals before the end of the window, Dyche said on Wednesday that there were ‘a couple pending that we think we have a chance on’.

One deal that the club thought was done had got away from them, and while he did not mention names it’s understood that is Mawson, who was close to joining the Clarets a week ago before a late move from Fulham.

Asked if Dyche had ever experienced players wanting to move to Turf Moor but being unable to do so due to finance, he said: “We’ve had a couple.

“Agents get a bit of stick, but I had one agent agree to take less in his fee to get a player here. That stood him in good stead with me as a person.

“I’ve a couple of players who have stayed here when people have tried to get them out. I’ve had agents who want players to come here because it’s right for them. Eventually, money wins the day.”

[HieronymousBoschHobs]

Doesn't sound good...

[ksrclaret]

Widen your ******* scope then, his intransigence is going to cost us.

[tim_noone]

Doesn't sound good...

Sean dyches honesty does though...a true gent!

[bfcjg]

Doesn't sound good...

I want a club for my grandchildren to support. For me it does. BFC is not here to put money into mercenary players and agents pockets. I want to to see them going on the Turf in Claret and blue whatever division that is our common sense approach leads to.
UTC for the many not the few.

[ClaretAndJew]

I want a club for my grandchildren to support. For me it does. BFC is not here to put money into mercenary players and agents pockets. I want to to see them going on the Turf in Claret and blue whatever division that is our common sense approach leads to.
UTC for the many not the few.

A very weird ending to an otherwise decent post.

[tim_noone]

I want a club for my grandchildren to support. For me it does. BFC is not here to put money into mercenary players and agents pockets. I want to to see them going on the Turf in Claret and blue whatever division that is our common sense approach leads to.
UTC for the many not the few.

Well said it's the journey not the destination ...and I've had a great journey.utc!

[tim_noone]

A very weird ending to an otherwise decent post.

The many are true burnley fans...the few...??plastic I would guess.

[Joe Buck]

I want a club for my grandchildren to support. For me it does. BFC is not here to put money into mercenary players and agents pockets. I want to to see them going on the Turf in Claret and blue whatever division that is our common sense approach leads to.
UTC for the many not the few.

Exactly right. Enjoy it while we can but let’s not ruin the club. Keep the faith.

[northeastclaret]

Why do we so often have such a limited number of targets each window that we fail to sign , rather than having other affordable back up options that don't bust our budget? I suppose that comes back to what appears to be a shockingly bad scouting set up ?

[ksrclaret]

Why do we so often have such a limited number of targets each window that we fail to sign , rather than having other affordable back up options?. I suppose that comes back to what appears to be a shockingly bad scouting set up ?

Incredible isn't it. He's talking like we've not got a penny to our name.

[DCWat]

“The challenge is opening the club’s mind enough to go some way to keep up, because the whole of the football business is saying ‘all the best with that, we’re going up here’. Stretch and not break. It’s not easy.”

Surely it has to work both ways, and it does appear that we are hamstrung to an extent by Dyche’s specifications for a player. Though it’s difficult to argue with what he has delivered, I do think that he needs to be able and willing to make use of other markets. Either that or our scouting is just not reliable enough for him to be confident.

Good management, in any walk of life, is about being able to manage different characters and traits, often people that you wouldn’t dream of associating with outside of work.

For us to compete within our financial limits and for Dyche to ultimately progress as a manager, it seems that this is a skill that he needs to master.

He’s obviously a damn good manager of carefully selected characters. He also needs to be able to manage those that are perhaps more of a challenge but bring with them a whole host of other attributes.

[fidelcastro]

He’s obviously a damn good manager of carefully selected characters. He also needs to be able to manage those that are perhaps more of a challenge but bring with them a whole host of other attributes.

Joey Barton.

[Leisure]

Widen your ******* scope then, his intransigence is going to cost us.

Please elaborate on this, I'm intrigued!

[ksrclaret]

Please elaborate on this, I'm intrigued!

See dcwat's post. Its sums things up far better than I could.

[RocketLawnChair]

We’ve had our fair share of crackpots and complex personal situations whilst Dyche has been with us. Barton and Barfsley for two and Lennon as had his well documented problems. So I wouldn’t really question Dyche man management skills or that he pidgeon holes certain characters.

[fidelcastro]

See dcwat's post. Its sums things up far better than I could.

It doesn't at all. It just basically says that Dyche can only motivate/manage certain characters, which isn't true.

I doubt very much that Barton, Defour and Barnes are/were similar in character to Duff and Vokes for example.

[Wokingclaret]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45037962" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmmm message

[ksrclaret]

It doesn't at all. It just basically says that Dyche can only motivate/manage certain characters, which isn't true.

I doubt very much that Barton, Defour and Barnes are/were similar in character to Duff and Vokes for example.

The bit about Dyche needing to be willing to cast his net wider is what I'm getting at. We've got plenty of money to spend as Garlick has himself stated, so the fact we're sat here with nobody in and looking likely to stay that way is down to Dyche and his absolute fixation on signing one or two players or getting noone, even when it becomes obvious that it's not going to happen.

It happens time and time again under his leadership and people can't wait to hammer the board for it. He's a great manager of people, but by god he'd be goosed as a recruitment consultant.

[fidelcastro]

The bit about Dyche needing to be willing to cast his net wider is what I'm getting at. We've got plenty of money to spend as Garlick has himself stated, so the fact we're sat here with nobody in and looking likely to stay that way is down to Dyche and his absolute fixation on signing one or two players or getting noone, even when it becomes obvious that it's not going to happen.

It happens time and time again under his leadership and people can't wait to hammer the board for it. He's a great manager of people, but by god he'd be goosed as a recruitment consultant.

And yet this alleged policy got us to 7th in the PL last season!

Just think, if we signed any old Tom, Dick or Sergei then Man. City would soon have new rivals!

[jedi_master]

Not a happy bunny.

You just cannot see him turning down arguably any other job in the Premier League, and even the likes of Villa, Derby etc in the Championship after reading that. Maximum frustration said in a professional but damning manner.

I admire our clubs prudence and MG’s chairmanship has to be viewed as a momentous success so far, but he and Dyche are at a crossroads moment in their relationship I feel. I get the impression that after finishing 7th, getting us into Europe and signing that new contract that Dyche probably expected a larger degree of flexibility this summer. If anything, with the market moving forward again we have actually regressed in terms of our pulling power (or so it would seem).

The crossroads I reference is perhaps too late as with days left you cannot really see our strategy of driving the hardest of hard bargains with clubs and agents changing to such a degree that Dyche would have his frustrations answered. It seems we have a very clear identity that we will not ever change from, regardless of our earnings and regardless of our league position.

Is that the right decision? We will only be able to judge that with the immediate aftermath of whenever it is we lose Sean Dyche.

In my opinion, that won’t be too long away having read that.

[ksrclaret]

And yet this alleged policy got us to 7th in the PL last season!

Just think, if we signed any old Tom, Dick or Sergei then Man. City would soon have new rivals!

Rival Man City? Wash your mouth out young man, don't you know they're market leaders?

It's like you want us to bet the ranch and do a Portsmouth.

[fidelcastro]

Rival Man City? Wash your mouth out young man, don't you know they're market leaders?

It's like you want us to bet the ranch and do a Portsmouth.

Where do you get that from?

Or maybe it's sarcasm like my post was.

Difficult to tell on here sometimes.

[tybfc]

The bit about Dyche needing to be willing to cast his net wider is what I'm getting at. We've got plenty of money to spend as Garlick has himself stated, so the fact we're sat here with nobody in and looking likely to stay that way is down to Dyche and his absolute fixation on signing one or two players or getting noone, even when it becomes obvious that it's not going to happen.

It happens time and time again under his leadership and people can't wait to hammer the board for it. He's a great manager of people, but by god he'd be goosed as a recruitment consultant.

Perhaps he thinks the squad that finished 7th in the best league in the world is just about ok at the moment?

[ksrclaret]

Where do you get that from?

Or maybe it's sarcasm like my post was.

Difficult to tell on here sometimes.

Just sarcasm mate, should have added a smiley!

[Wokingclaret]

Not enough numbers

[RocketLawnChair]

And yet this alleged policy got us to 7th in the PL last season!

Just think, if we signed any old Tom, Dick or Sergei then Man. City would soon have new rivals!

Again too extreme a trait of this board. I haven’t read a single poster who wants us to make signings say they want us to compete with Man City. And as Sean Dyche as said it’s time to park the 2017/18 season. That was the one where we finished 7th for anybody who didn’t know.

[If it be your will]

.

[Silkyskills1]

Not a happy bunny.

You just cannot see him turning down arguably any other job in the Premier League, and even the likes of Villa, Derby etc in the Championship after reading that. Maximum frustration said in a professional but damning manner.

I admire our clubs prudence and MG’s chairmanship has to be viewed as a momentous success so far, but he and Dyche are at a crossroads moment in their relationship I feel. I get the impression that after finishing 7th, getting us into Europe and signing that new contract that Dyche probably expected a larger degree of flexibility this summer. If anything, with the market moving forward again we have actually regressed in terms of our pulling power (or so it would seem).

The crossroads I reference is perhaps too late as with days left you cannot really see our strategy of driving the hardest of hard bargains with clubs and agents changing to such a degree that Dyche would have his frustrations answered. It seems we have a very clear identity that we will not ever change from, regardless of our earnings and regardless of our league position.

Is that the right decision? We will only be able to judge that with the immediate aftermath of whenever it is we lose Sean Dyche.

In my opinion, that won’t be too long away having read that.

Great post. The writing is on the wall, the cracks are beginning to show,the season is still 9/10 days away and the manager,it seems, is running out of ways to show his displeasure. Harmony is a major contributor to our progress and that has come from the top but the harmony is slowly being damaged now and not everyone seems to be singing from the same song sheet.

[RocketLawnChair]

Perhaps he thinks the squad that finished 7th in the best league in the world is just about ok at the moment?

It isn’t that squad though is it? We have less players than this time last year.

[Wokingclaret]

And yet on many occasions in the Championship we ran at a loss in order to compete (sometimes even going too far)

[Burnley Ace]

If the problem is the difference in wages between new players and old ones we should do a Brighton and buy 8 new players from Europe on 60k a week and sell the old ones. That way the fans are happy cause we have spent a load on foreign players and all the players are happy be at they are all on the same wage.

[atlantalad]

Reality check required. We are in Premier League. We are in Europe. Both achieved last season by prudencey and not paying over the odds to strengthen the squad. Players brought in last season - at very reasonable cost- more than achieved Dyches' goal of staying in the Premiership. Trust in Dyche, he relishes the challenge.

May be it's time to push on and show the club is building a sound future, come what may, by giving some in the development squad a run out.
If it works out and we stay in the premiership then Dyche will have proved he is so much more than a capable manager ( unlike the norm high profile Premiership mangers who claim credit and adulation by simply buying their "talented" players).

[DCWat]

It doesn't at all. It just basically says that Dyche can only motivate/manage certain characters, which isn't true.

I doubt very much that Barton, Defour and Barnes are/were similar in character to Duff and Vokes for example.

I think you’re missing the point slightly, fidel.

The players that Dyche has, probably pretty much to a man, I suspect have been studied in depth to determine whether or not they would be the right character for the group.

Taking it back to the real world and looking at an area such as IT for example (and no offence meant to anyone in that field of work) there are some very different characters in these types of teams, in and amongst your more ‘every day’ folk.

A lot of them aren’t particularly communicative and don’t necessarily fit the typical team ethos, but they possess some fantastic skills that shouldn’t be overlooked.

For me, and of course Dyche manages different characters, he needs to be able to manage characters that he may be much less sure of, if they bring something else to the table.

It’s a fine balance but it’s a skill that I’m sure top managers need, particularly with the big clubs and all the egos. For us, it’s a market that could well provide more value but for whatever reason, we appear to be almost to reluctant to take a risk.

As it stands days before the window closes, I’m not convinced that our current approach isn’t actually the riskier of the two.

[tybfc]

I think you’re missing the point slightly, fidel.

The players that Dyche has, probably pretty much to a man, I suspect have been studied in depth to determine whether or not they would be the right character for the group.

Taking it back to the real world and looking at an area such as IT for example (and no offence meant to anyone in that field of work) there are some very different characters in these types of teams, in and amongst your more ‘every day’ folk.

A lot of them aren’t particularly communicative and don’t necessarily fit the typical team ethos, but they possess some fantastic skills that shouldn’t be overlooked.

For me, and of course Dyche manages different characters, he needs to be able to manage characters that he may be much less sure of, if they bring something else to the table.

It’s a fine balance but it’s a skill that I’m sure top managers need, particularly with the big clubs and all the egos. For us, it’s a market that could well provide more value but for whatever reason, we appear to be almost to reluctant to take a risk.

As it stands days before the window closes, I’m not convinced that our current approach isn’t actually the riskier of the two.

Great post DCWat and knocked the nail on the head.

SD could go out tomorrow and spend millions on a player that doesn't fit his 'system'.

It would be a waste of money and wages.

I trust him as the day is long.

If we sign nobody it's fine by me (though I do know Huncoat Utd's U'13's goalkeeper if we are getting desperate).

[DCWat]

Hardly what I’ve suggested at all, tybfc.

I’ve suggested that we may need to be more flexible on Dyche’s ‘system’ in order to be able to afford players of the quality that we need and increase those available to us.

If that warrants a sarcastic response because you don’t agree, fine. A little of your reasoning might add to debate.

I trust Dyche and am not criticising all that he has done, anyone would be mad to do so. However claret tinted the glasses may be, there does appear to be something of a difference in view between the club and Dyche, based on his latest comments. So is it the clubs approach or Dyche’s apparent desire to be able to be active in the market that you trust? They’re conflicting based on those comments and a balance needs to be found.

Standing still is a recipe for disaster and when it’s blatantly obvious that the manager wants players, I fail to see why it would be fine by you, if we signed nobody.

[fidelcastro]

I think you’re missing the point slightly, fidel.

The players that Dyche has, probably pretty much to a man, I suspect have been studied in depth to determine whether or not they would be the right character for the group.

Taking it back to the real world and looking at an area such as IT for example (and no offence meant to anyone in that field of work) there are some very different characters in these types of teams, in and amongst your more ‘every day’ folk.

A lot of them aren’t particularly communicative and don’t necessarily fit the typical team ethos, but they possess some fantastic skills that shouldn’t be overlooked.

For me, and of course Dyche manages different characters, he needs to be able to manage characters that he may be much less sure of, if they bring something else to the table.

It’s a fine balance but it’s a skill that I’m sure top managers need, particularly with the big clubs and all the egos. For us, it’s a market that could well provide more value but for whatever reason, we appear to be almost to reluctant to take a risk.

As it stands days before the window closes, I’m not convinced that our current approach isn’t actually the riskier of the two.

I'm not missing the point at all. There are always going to be different characters in any walk of life, but Dyche has managed to get them all (by and large) to buy into his ethos.

Would you say that Defour was a typical Dyche type player? I wouldn't, but when he's been fit he's been excellent for the most part.

Was Barton the type of 'character' you thought would work under Dyche's man management style? I had my doubts, but I think most of us were proved wrong.

Perhaps the word you're looking for is 'maverick', but many a manager has come unstuck with one or more of those in the team!

[Vegas Claret]

"stretch not break" he says

No ******* chance we've even begun to stretch, bullshit excuses

[Spijed]

I admire our clubs prudence and MG’s chairmanship has to be viewed as a momentous success so far, but he and Dyche are at a crossroads moment in their relationship I feel. I get the impression that after finishing 7th, getting us into Europe and signing that new contract that Dyche probably expected a larger degree of flexibility this summer.

But from what's been said elsewhere the inflexibility of SD in the market is as much an issue. Does he really want to buy foreign players, for example? It would seem not.

Nixon made the point that SD is so stubborn it stops us looking at many players.

[agreenwood]

Perhaps he thinks the squad that finished 7th in the best league in the world is just about ok at the moment?

How do you read/listen to Dyche’s comments yesterday and come to that conclusion? He’s never been closer to openly criticising the board. He’s talking about the club needing to change their approach just to go some way to keep up with the other 19 clubs in our division.

Not the you need him to say any of this of course. You can’t stand still in football, no matter how good your previous season was and particularly with the extra load of European football.

I still believe we’ll strengthen, but I never thought we’d get within mere days of the window closing and not made a single first team signing. It’s going to go even closer to the wire too I think. Nothing looks close enough to happen this side of the weekend.

[Sproggy]

We haven't stood still. We've released players.

[SkiptonClaret]

Out of interest how much did we spend on Walters and Wells last summer ?

[agreenwood]

Out of interest how much did we spend on Walters and Wells last summer ?

Roughly £8m - £5m for Wells and £3m for Walters.

[MRG]

Does this suggest that as a club we feel that as a club we can no longer compete in this division? What’s worrying is that the Championship is also littered with clubs that can outspend us now whilst we have the TV money therefore dropping down a division and losing the TV money could be disastrous

[Hipper]

It means we can try and compete but in a different way. That is how it has always been at Burnley - even in Bob Lord times.

Furthermore it's what makes our seasons in the sun so special.

When we have tried to compete in more conventional ways - the John Bond year, ITV Digital - we messed up almost fatally. I certainly don't want that again.

Enjoy the ride - it goes up..... and down.

[CoolClaret]

No one is expecting us to drop 50 million on a player etc
However, when we are debt free, own our own stadium and training facilities, with the revenue we bring in we can be spending 20 million on a player.

I'm hoping that we don't do the panic buys and bring in players just to make numbers up that end up costing quite a bit themselves.

Quality > quantity.

[ClaretAndJew]

Once again though, there's a middle ground. We don't have to spend loads and "bust", but equally we can't just stand still while the rest of the league evolves. We're not the only team in this situation, so why does it sound like we are?

[summitclaret]

" Perhaps he thinks the squad that finished 7th in the best league in the world is just about ok at the moment? "

This has to be the happy clapper post of the week, if not the year. This poster is far from being thick, but I do wonder if comprehending what Sean is saying being blocked by a need to blindly back the Board for whatever reason.

If we don't sign at least a starter cb and a nr 10, I fear that crowd will turn on the Board should we have a poor start to the season. If that happens, we could throw away a decade of progress.

I have be arguing for weeks that say an extra £5m for Dawson is peanuts in the big picture, compared to not getting a decent cb, especially when Mee won't sign. It is getting harder and harder to think that the Board are taking the EL seriously when we have a weaker squad than last season on a day when we may go out of the EL.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Purely a coincidence that it is a certain type of poster who uses the term "happy clapper" the same mind numbing ones who use "dry powder" and think they are being funny with it.

[summitclaret]

Not trying to be funny, but it does often get a bite.