Pearcey wrote:Decent window though. Just a wide man missing. Could Dwight McNeil fill the void?

No chance.

Silkyskills1 wrote:No chance.

Have you seen him play enough to make that judgement?

DCWat wrote:Wide man and a central midfielder short.

The CM position concerns me the most as that’s the area that has been the shortcoming on the two occasions that we’ve been relegated from this division.

Get who we have fit and keep them that way, we will be fine. If injuries do continue to mount up, it could be a bit of a concern.

Hardly short at all. Yes, we could have done with another wide man but with Brady almost fit to add to JBG & Lennon and McNeil getting involved, I'm happy with that. As for central midfield, not sure we are short there at all.

If that's right, we're ending the window 3 midfielders and wide players less than we started it with. They may all have been back up, but Nkoudou, Arfield and Marney all added depth in that department, and we've lost the lot without replacing any of them - unless O'Neill and McNeill are being lined up to play more prominent first team roles (which seems unlikely).

So that leaves us with a total of 7 players to fill what is often 5 positions across midfield, 2 of whom have been out injured for a lengthy period, leaving a bare 5 for those roles. Sure, its 5 for 4 if we play 4-4-2, but even that doesn't sound to clever - particularly not if we're going to be regularly playing 2 games a week with Europe.

Disappointing fare. We've brought in 3 good players, but we've fallen short of what we needed and we're taking a big gamble in a key area of fitness, again. We've got away with it a couple of times, but we've also been badly burnt, too.

Wide player short

ClaretTony wrote:Hardly short at all. Yes, we could have done with another wide man but with Brady almost fit to add to JBG & Lennon and McNeil getting involved, I'm happy with that. As for central midfield, not sure we are short there at all.

I'd disagree with that, I really would. We've 4 central midfielders in total, one of whom has been injured for nearly 9 months, and we often play 3 in midfield. How can that not be short?

Who knows, maybe McNeil will actually end up saving up X millions and plenty in a big salary by being a bit of a surprise package?

Was good against Aberdeen, impressive in pre-season against Preston and Dyche clearly rates him. If we are talking about 4th/5th choice, I wouldn't have an issue with that. I say 4th/5th purely on the basis that I would imagine Dyche would play the likes of Barnes/Hendrick wide before considering starting McNeil there - but he might get a few minutes from the bench this season.

some people really do want sprinkles on their sh!t to make them happy dont they...

ClaretTony wrote:Hardly short at all. Yes, we could have done with another wide man but with Brady almost fit to add to JBG & Lennon and McNeil getting involved, I'm happy with that. As for central midfield, not sure we are short there at all.

Depends on how well Vydra plays the no.10 role for us. He needs to be able to carry the ball and create for others as well as play the 2nd striker.
Might be a big ask but that role is pivotal for us to progress.

claretspice wrote:I'd disagree with that, I really would. We've 4 central midfielders in total, one of whom has been injured for nearly 9 months, and we often play 3 in midfield. How can that not be short?

We very rarely play 3 in midfield.

claretspice wrote:So that leaves us with a total of 7 players to fill what is often 5 positions across midfield, 2 of whom have been out injured for a lengthy period, leaving a bare 5 for those roles. Sure, its 5 for 4 if we play 4-4-2, but even that doesn't sound to clever - particularly not if we're going to be regularly playing 2 games a week with Europe.

I don't see why you assume Vydra can't play the forward man in a midfield five. Rumour has it that that's his best position.

Also, Dyche seems to rate McNeil, so I'm not prepared to rule him out.

"Look like that. Good window though, nearly perfect."

So we have a goalkeeper, a defender and a forward. Sorry not my idea of perfect, the defence and goalkeeping were the strongest part of our team last year. When we got the ball into the box the forwards took their limited opportunities well.

It's the midfield that was crying out for improvement, to give the forwards more chances to score, we needed more pace and someone with a bit more quality to create from midfield. We have lost Scotty Arfield and replaced him with no one.

The way i see it is that we have four players for two CM positions (Defour, Cork, Hendrick and Westwood), Lennon, JBG, Brady and potentially McNeill out wide and Vydra/Barnes for 10 and Wood/Vokes for 9.
We are covered.

We've plenty, you can't be signing more players on 3 or 4 year deals because someone's injured in August. Well, we can't anyway.

ClaretTony wrote:Hardly short at all. Yes, we could have done with another wide man but with Brady almost fit to add to JBG & Lennon and McNeil getting involved, I'm happy with that. As for central midfield, not sure we are short there at all.

How are we not short? I believe we have 1 fit wide player tonight, 3 midfielders for 3 spots (which we'll likely play without Vydra or Wood).

claretspice wrote: Nkoudou, Arfield and Marney all added depth in that department.

How does a player who was injured for 18 months add depth? Marney was amazing for us in years past but once fit he was never a viable option, there's a reason he's gone to League One.

Another thing to consider is, we can still get in loans and we can sign players again in January. So it's not like that's it until the end of the season.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:"Look like that. Good window though, nearly perfect."

So we have a goalkeeper, a defender and a forward. Sorry not my idea of perfect, the defence and goalkeeping were the strongest part of our team last year. When we got the ball into the box the forwards took their limited opportunities well.

It's the midfield that was crying out for improvement, to give the forwards more chances to score, we needed more pace and someone with a bit more quality to create from midfield. We have lost Scotty Arfield and replaced him with no one.

If SD was overly concerned about Arfield leaving we'd have offered him a better contract.

Quickenthetempo wrote:Depends on how well Vydra plays the no.10 role for us. He needs to be able to carry the ball and create for others as well as play the 2nd striker.
Might be a big ask but that role is pivotal for us to progress.

He can't be any worse than Hendrick..

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote: We have lost Scotty Arfield and replaced him with no one.

We replaced him wth Lennon in January.

Rileybobs wrote:We very rarely play 3 in midfield.

We played it in a majority of matches last season - and virtually every game Defour played in - and we've used that set up in the only away game we've played this season so far.

As for Vydra, there's a difference between being a natural second striker, and being a 3rd midfielder. You won't see Vydra dropping deep to allow Defour to move forwards, as Hendrick or Arfield (for example) did. It's the same observation as saying that Frank Lampard didn't play in the same position as Thierry Henry.

FactualFrank wrote:Another thing to consider is, we can still get in loans and we can sign players again in January. So it's not like that's it until the end of the season.

We can sign players in Jan.

The loan deadline is also today tho. Loans until 31 August only for FL clubs.

claretspice wrote:I'd disagree with that, I really would. We've 4 central midfielders in total, one of whom has been injured for nearly 9 months, and we often play 3 in midfield. How can that not be short?

And yet you have just claimed us to be one short with Marney who hadn't played for a season and a half. Can't have it both ways.

FactualFrank wrote:Another thing to consider is, we can still get in loans and we can sign players again in January. So it's not like that's it until the end of the season.

We can't get in loans after today. We can loan out to the Championship, but the window is now closed until January.

We could play 40 games before then.

I’d say Arfield is the player we haven’t replaced. He was a utility player who could slot into a few positions in different systems. I think that man was Clucas but that obviously wasnt to be. I think we’ve addressed the 3 weakest positions in the team though and have a good amount of strength and depth, apart from out wide. And lets not forget that the window slams open in just over 4 months.

claretspice wrote:We played it in a majority of matches last season - and virtually every game Defour played in - and we've used that set up in the only away game we've played this season so far.

As for Vydra, there's a difference between being a natural second striker, and being a 3rd midfielder. You won't see Vydra dropping deep to allow Defour to move forwards, as Hendrick or Arfield (for example) did. It's the same observation as saying that Frank Lampard didn't play in the same position as Thierry Henry.

Playing a CM in the 10 role is not classed as three in midfield. You know that right?

FactualFrank wrote:Another thing to consider is, we can still get in loans and we can sign players again in January. So it's not like that's it until the end of the season.

We can't get loans in. After today it is January.

DCWat wrote:Wide man and a central midfielder short.

The CM position concerns me the most as that’s the area that has been the shortcoming on the two occasions that we’ve been relegated from this division.

Get who we have fit and keep them that way, we will be fine. If injuries do continue to mount up, it could be a bit of a concern.

Winger and central midfielder were especially needed and ideally a striker

7/10 so far for me with the extra point for Ben Mee signing his contract

claretspice wrote:We played it in a majority of matches last season - and virtually every game Defour played in - and we've used that set up in the only away game we've played this season so far.

As for Vydra, there's a difference between being a natural second striker, and being a 3rd midfielder. You won't see Vydra dropping deep to allow Defour to move forwards, as Hendrick or Arfield (for example) did. It's the same observation as saying that Frank Lampard didn't play in the same position as Thierry Henry.

You clearly watched Derby a lot more than I did last season. So are you saying Hendrick's clearly better than Vydra in the number 10 role as Dyche intends to play it this season?

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:"So we have a goalkeeper, a defender and a forward. Sorry not my idea of perfect, the defence and goalkeeping were the strongest part of our team last year.

So our keepers are injured and all last season people were shouting from the hills that we were too light on center backs and how much of a liability that was.
Two problems we've just solved, no pleasing some.

agreenwood wrote:We can sign players in Jan.
The loan deadline is also today tho. Loans until 31 August only for FL clubs.

Ah fair enough. Then with McNeil, we have 4 wide players. I assume he'll be part of the squad as otherwise I doubt he'd have featured.

ClaretTony wrote:And yet you have just claimed us to be one short with Marney who hadn't played for a season and a half. Can't have it both ways.

No I didn't. I said we've lost both Marney and Arfield from last season in the centre of midfield, and NKoudou out wide. Marney didn't play and I wasn't expecting us to replace him, but Arfield was used both in midfield and out wide extensively last season until we had to bring in cover for him because he was injured.

I'm not saying we need to bring in players to replace both Marney and Arfield, but between those two and NKoudou, they leave one vacancy between them. We've not filled it.

Braindead wrote:Playing a CM in the 10 role is not classed as three in midfield. You know that right?

See Dyche's own comments on Hendrick's role last season.

Reflections on the window then. I know it's premature but my alarm is set to go off in 4 hours (in Sydney) for the game.

Hart - unexpected in that I wasn't expecting to need a keeper. If Heaton is longer term than we assumed it's very good business.

Gibson - very good business in exceptional circumstances. Boro gone up in my estimation in terms of honouring a sentiment/verbal agreement with a player who was seriously "invested" in them.

Vydra - probably a really good fit in terms of playing style and our needs. It does make me wonder a bit about our insistence on dressing room character though. Hasn't he done to Leeds what Clucas did to us? A bit too pragmatic to be holier than thou.

Clucas - pr1ck. Dodged one there.

Jay Rod - shame, especially because morally we should have him. We had to give him up when we stood in the way of his career and yet now we are in a position to make it work we can't have him. No issue with WBA though - that is their prerogative.

7/10 but will miss Scotty for more more than one reason.

UTC!

claretspice wrote:We can't get in loans after today. We can loan out to the Championship, but the window is now closed until January.

We could play 40 games before then.

20 in the league, 10 in the Europa Cup, 3 in the League Cup. Where are the other 7?

claretspice wrote:No I didn't. I said we've lost both Marney and Arfield from last season in the centre of midfield

Marney's last appearance for us was January 2017 so we have not lost him from last season. NKoudou played twice, amazed you think he's such a big loss, and, in any case, we've signed Lennon since we signed him. Arfield has gone, admittedly, but he didn't play from mid-Feb onwards.

Braindead wrote:Playing a CM in the 10 role is not classed as three in midfield. You know that right?

The point is, Hendrick, Westwood and Cork are currently all first 11 players, we have zero cover for the midfield 2. Defour seemingly can't stay fit. No-one to play central midfield or outwide on the bench? Are we just going to have 3 strikers, 2 central defenders, Taylor and a goalkeeper on the bench?

claretspice wrote:We played it in a majority of matches last season - and virtually every game Defour played in - and we've used that set up in the only away game we've played this season so far.

As for Vydra, there's a difference between being a natural second striker, and being a 3rd midfielder. You won't see Vydra dropping deep to allow Defour to move forwards, as Hendrick or Arfield (for example) did. It's the same observation as saying that Frank Lampard didn't play in the same position as Thierry Henry.

If you think that we played the majority of games last season with 3 people in the centre of midfield then we’ll have to agree to disagree. We often played with a ‘number 10’ who had defensive responsibilities but that was in no way a traditional 4-5-1.

And as for Hendrick dropping deeper to allow Defour to move forwards, that hardly ever happened. Hendrick dropped deep quite often but we hardly ever saw Defour advance into attacking positions from open play.

There's some high end drama queenery on Twitter on a Chris boden tweet. Shambles apparently.

As you were.

I’m hearing rumours that there aren’t any rumours.

dsr wrote:You clearly watched Derby a lot more than I did last season. So are you saying Hendrick's clearly better than Vydra in the number 10 role as Dyche intends to play it this season?

No idea. But he's a forward, not a midfielder. Dyche has said as much in his interview comments on Vydra.

If we're going to play 4-4-2 all season, then great. But Defour struggles a bit in a central midfield 2.

Hardly short at all

Apart from everyone on here disagreeing with CT .....

..... A quote from SD yesterday! "We're a little bit limited and we'll have a few decisions to make".

Spijed wrote:Have you seen him play enough to make that judgement?

The fact that I've seen him just a little more than I have Lord Lucan supports my judgement. He looked okay,though a little lightweight for half an hour against Aberdeen. Players from the past that made a quick, successful transition were the likes of Thomas,Kindon, James and Trevor Steven. All were exciting prospects and managed to fulfill the 'press' they had built up. Dwight McNeil doesn't fit that bill. He may do so in the future but not the present.

Rileybobs wrote:If you think that we played the majority of games last season with 3 people in the centre of midfield then we’ll have to agree to disagree. We often played with a ‘number 10’ who had defensive responsibilities but that was in no way a traditional 4-5-1.

And as for Hendrick dropping deeper to allow Defour to move forwards, that hardly ever happened. Hendrick dropped deep quite often but we hardly ever saw Defour advance into attacking positions from open play.

Again, I'll choose Dyche's comments on the role he was asking Hendrick to play. As Dyche said, it was clearly a midfield role.

Duffer_ wrote:Vydra - probably a really good fit in terms of playing style and our needs. It does make me wonder a bit about our insistence on dressing room character though. Hasn't he done to Leeds what Clucas did to us? A bit too pragmatic to be holier than thou.

Vydra spoke to Leeds, talked terms, and decided not to go. What's characterless about that?

NottsClaret wrote:We've plenty, you can't be signing more players on 3 or 4 year deals because someone's injured in August. Well, we can't anyway.

Who wouldn't want more players for cover in the toughest league in the world?

dsr wrote:20 in the league, 10 in the Europa Cup, 3 in the League Cup. Where are the other 7?

You're so petty you actually counted them, we've played more than 7 games already. Cork, Aberdeen x2, Blackpool, Shrewsbury, Espanyol, Montpellier, Preston. So Spice was correct, we'll play 40 games of football before January (he never said friendlies didn't count).

claretspice wrote:I'd disagree with that, I really would. We've 4 central midfielders in total, one of whom has been injured for nearly 9 months, and we often play 3 in midfield. How can that not be short?

I agree totally, i think most people would have been delighted with all the new signings, with the exception of Hart they improved areas of the field that had concerns in May but imo the first priority would have been finding suitable replacements for Arfield and Marney, they may not have played as much last season as they had done previously but they would have been needed if we hit an injury crisis.

Defour has massive question marks over his long term fitness and Hendrick has only sporadically shown his true qualities in our team, could he play longer term as an out and out central midfielder if the number ten role is no longer his?

I like both Cork and Westwood but would not like to see them playing most of the season as a central pairing, they don't have the tools as a pair to pick a pass and open teams up, they are different players comfortable playing the same role.

So in short i think with several players not guaranteed to be over their medium/long term injuries we are taking a risk not filling those two areas with new acquisitions.

We may have tried very hard to make that happen and without facts to prove one way or another, i will not criticise the club.

claretspice wrote:We can't get in loans after today. We can loan out to the Championship, but the window is now closed until January.

We could play 40 games before then.

If we play 40 games before then that would mean we've got the right players would it not?

BigChaCha wrote:Apart from everyone on here disagreeing with CT .....

..... A quote from SD yesterday! "We're a little bit limited and we'll have a few decisions to make".

That's relating to tonight because of the players who haven't travelled. Nothing to do with deadline day deals or this thread.