Wells

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TomtheClaret
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Wells

Post by TomtheClaret » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:09 pm

Was Wells included in vydra transfer? Some derby fans seem to think, we paid £7m plus wells. Or £11m if he does not agree terms.

houseboy
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Re: Wells

Post by houseboy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:56 pm

TomtheClaret wrote:Was Wells included in vydra transfer? Some derby fans seem to think, we paid £7m plus wells. Or £11m if he does not agree terms.
All I know was, on (I think) BBC Sport, it was said it was a cash and player deal. I just can't see that straight swap myth being true unless someone at Derby has taken leave of their senses.

summitclaret
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Re: Wells

Post by summitclaret » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Hope the op is right as much for wells as us. However if true it makes our lack of spending on a winger even more odd.

mkmel
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Re: Wells

Post by mkmel » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:06 pm

I thought he was still contracted to us and still our player?

KRBFC
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Re: Wells

Post by KRBFC » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:10 pm

He clearly isn't wanted, couldn't even make the bench against Aberdeen. Head scratching signing really, it was never going to work out especially with the lack of chance he's been given.

CombatClaret
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Re: Wells

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:17 pm

Can't find the tweet but Nixon or Boden they were two separate deals.
Obviously the Wells one never made it over the line for one reason or another.

Silkyskills1
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Re: Wells

Post by Silkyskills1 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:23 pm

KRBFC wrote:He clearly isn't wanted, couldn't even make the bench against Aberdeen. Head scratching signing really, it was never going to work out especially with the lack of chance he's been given.
Not being on the bench v Aberdeen suggested to me he was on his way somewhere. Very curious situation for all concerned really.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Wells

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Can't find the tweet but Nixon or Boden they were two separate deals.
Obviously the Wells one never made it over the line for one reason or another.
So far as I'm aware there's nothing to stop this deal going ahead in the next few weeks. EPL teams can sign players up until the end of August, so we could still potentially sell or loan out any of our squad to a Championship team (or below).

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Re: Wells

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:32 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:So far as I'm aware there's nothing to stop this deal going ahead in the next few weeks. EPL teams can sign players up until the end of August, so we could still potentially sell or loan out any of our squad to a Championship team (or below).
We can't sell to a Football League club now. We can still sell to teams in other countries but can only loan players to Football League clubs.

mkmel
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Re: Wells

Post by mkmel » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:35 pm

I could be wrong but isn't it just loans and not permanent moves allowed involving Championship and lower divisions clubs until 31st August?

nil_desperandum
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Re: Wells

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:We can't sell to a Football League club now. We can still sell to teams in other countries but can only loan players to Football League clubs.
Yes, so theoretically we can loan him (or anyone else) to any club with compulsory purchase in January, similar to Ings to Southampton?

ClaretTony
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Re: Wells

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:58 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Yes, so theoretically we can loan him (or anyone else) to any club with compulsory purchase in January, similar to Ings to Southampton?
No idea why the Ings deal was loan initially because there was nothing to differentiate between permanent and loan signings within the Premier League window. But yes, we can loan a player out to a Football League club with the potential for them to sign him in a future window.

NickBFC
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Re: Wells

Post by NickBFC » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:00 pm

I can see he will leave on loan with view to permanent deal in the summer (somewhere). I wouldn't be letting anyone else leave at the moment with our busy schedule.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Wells

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:02 pm

ClaretTony wrote:No idea why the Ings deal was loan initially because there was nothing to differentiate between permanent and loan signings within the Premier League window. But yes, we can loan a player out to a Football League club with the potential for them to sign him in a future window.
Re: Ings.
By splitting it into a "loan" fee and then a transfer fee, won't it reduce their liability to us?
(i.e. We'll only get 20% of the transfer fee, so Liverpool will have a net gain).

whiffa
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Re: Wells

Post by whiffa » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:02 pm

Friend of mine works at Deepdale and has seen Jon Walters there in the past fortnight so possible loan deal to PNE? Was surprised to see him start against Instanbul if this was the case.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Wells

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:04 pm

NickBFC wrote:I can see he will leave on loan with view to permanent deal in the summer (somewhere). I wouldn't be letting anyone else leave at the moment with our busy schedule.
Why not permanent in January?

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Re: Wells

Post by NickBFC » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:07 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Why not permanent in January?
Could well do, seems the fashion to have a season loan before signing full time for some reason. Whatever the situation, we need to move him on, and he needs regular football somewhere. I don't think he's a bad player but it was a baffling signing at the time, and still is.

MACCA
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Re: Wells

Post by MACCA » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:12 pm

whiffa wrote:Friend of mine works at Deepdale and has seen Jon Walters there in the past fortnight so possible loan deal to PNE? Was surprised to see him start against Instanbul if this was the case.
If we had got our wide man target, it would have probably happened, however I think Walters will act as our 3rd choice wide man, and when Brady is back our 4th choice.

None of the natural 3 wide men make me think they can make 35 premier league starts, never mind the possibility of 90 minutes every Thursday and Sunday.
We could easily play 50+ games this season, the failure to get in wide man number 4 will mean square pegs in round holes quite a lot.
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ClaretTony
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Re: Wells

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:34 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Re: Ings.
By splitting it into a "loan" fee and then a transfer fee, won't it reduce their liability to us?
(i.e. We'll only get 20% of the transfer fee, so Liverpool will have a net gain).
No idea but I'd assume that we'll get 20% of what Liverpool receive in total over the £6.5 million we've already received.

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Re: Wells

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:47 pm

ClaretTony wrote:No idea but I'd assume that we'll get 20% of what Liverpool receive in total over the £6.5 million we've already received.
I've no idea either, but otherwise why split the deal into "loan fee" and "transfer" fee, when they could simply have a transfer fee paid in instalments?
My suspicion is that legally we will have signed up to 20% of any future TRANSFER profit, and that we won't see any percentage of the "loan" fee.

piston broke
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Re: Wells

Post by piston broke » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:54 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:I've no idea either, but otherwise why split the deal into "loan fee" and "transfer" fee, when they could simply have a transfer fee paid in instalments?
My suspicion is that legally we will have signed up to 20% of any future TRANSFER profit, and that we won't see any percentage of the "loan" fee.
Could make a court case. It’s semantics. The commonly known loan is really a temporary transfer and in this case a fee is being received for such.

piston broke
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Re: Wells

Post by piston broke » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:56 pm

With his pace I’m surprised Wells has never been tried out wide.
Probably because his defensive ability is sub-standard.
Walters put a good shift in, last night, but looked paceless with the ball.

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Re: Wells

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:No idea but I'd assume that we'll get 20% of what Liverpool receive in total over the £6.5 million we've already received.
It could be a move to reduce the payment to us, not sure on that one.

Other reasons could be

They can include a £5m payment in their accounts for this year and the remainder in next years accounts. Splitting the payment over two financial years might benefit them in someway.

They won't have to negotiate personal terms with the player until next year, if that hasn't been done at the outset.

Only the first one relates to us and we can't do much about it if they have conspired to screw us over.

Wells and Walters

We need to keep both until the next window now. Walters can do a job on the right wing as he showed yesterday and we could even find a spot for Wells on the left of midfield if we are reduced to "square pegs in round holes".

Wells on the left wing might be better than taking Barnes away from his most effective position, but moving Taylor up is another possibility.

We might have to buy a big box of spanners this season, because the need to bolt together a first team could arise more than once.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Wells

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:14 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:It could be a move to reduce the payment to us, not sure on that one.

Other reasons could be

They can include a £5m payment in their accounts for this year and the remainder in next years accounts. Splitting the payment over two financial years might benefit them in someway.
.
Surely that's only the same as paying a "transfer" fee in instalments?

Hipper
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Re: Wells

Post by Hipper » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:37 pm

So just to clarify, Wells is at this moment still at Burnley?

nil_desperandum
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Re: Wells

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Hipper wrote:So just to clarify, Wells is at this moment still at Burnley?
Yes.

ClaretTony
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Re: Wells

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:08 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:I've no idea either, but otherwise why split the deal into "loan fee" and "transfer" fee, when they could simply have a transfer fee paid in instalments?
My suspicion is that legally we will have signed up to 20% of any future TRANSFER profit, and that we won't see any percentage of the "loan" fee.
We didn't sign up to anything though, it was a tribunal decision. But I believe we are entitled to 20% of any profit Liverpool make on him so that suggests it should include any loan fee. When I get the opportunity though I'll certainly ask the question.
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agreenwood
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Re: Wells

Post by agreenwood » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:30 pm

Linked with a loan move to QPR tonight.

aggi
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Re: Wells

Post by aggi » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:38 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Re: Ings.
By splitting it into a "loan" fee and then a transfer fee, won't it reduce their liability to us?
(i.e. We'll only get 20% of the transfer fee, so Liverpool will have a net gain).
The agreement is generally much more complex than a line saying 20% of the transfer. That should then be defined, something like any transfer profit generated whilst the player's registration is held by Liverpool FC and profit also defined. The definition is also expanded to cover the event of things like the deal being non-monetary (e.g. a player in exchange)

mdd2
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Re: Wells

Post by mdd2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:52 pm

I think in the end it was a rush job re Ings and maybe it is quicker to loan a player than transfer him. The clubs were given extra time to complete the deal

Walt
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Re: Wells

Post by Walt » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:34 am

Sounds like he's off to QPR.

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Re: Wells

Post by theroyaldyche » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:39 am

Walt wrote:Sounds like he's off to QPR.
They desp need a striker

The Enclosure
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Re: Wells

Post by The Enclosure » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:14 pm

WELLS IN QPR MEDICAL

Burnley’s Nahki Wells is undergoing a medical at QPR today ahead of completing a season-long loan switch, according to Sky sources.

The striker has been in discussions over the move over the last few days as Rangers also look to bring in Tomer Hemed on loan from Brighton.

Wells is set to join on a year-long loan deal that is understood not to include any option or obligation to buy him permanently.

DCWat
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Re: Wells

Post by DCWat » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:15 pm

Shame there is no buy clause. Assume he will be in the last year of his contract after the loan and any value will drop further

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Re: Wells

Post by snapcrackleandpop » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:18 pm

Well i am probably in the minority here but I hope he does really well for them (for his sake not QPR's) I would have liked him to have had a proper chance here.

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Re: Wells

Post by Shipclaret » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:19 pm

They haven't got the money to make a commitment to buy

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Re: Wells

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:19 pm

DCWat wrote:Shame there is no buy clause. Assume he will be in the last year of his contract after the loan and any value will drop further
Not if he has a blinder in the Championship. Clubs will be wanting to buy him next summer.

KellyClaret
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Re: Wells

Post by KellyClaret » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:22 pm

snapcrackleandpop wrote:Well i am probably in the minority here but I hope he does really well for them (for his sake not QPR's) I would have liked him to have had a proper chance here.
Surely anyone can see the benefit of him doing well there means that we can get a transfer fee for him next summer and therefor would want him to do well.

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Re: Wells

Post by snapcrackleandpop » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:24 pm

KellyClaret wrote:Surely anyone can see the benefit of him doing well there means that we can get a transfer fee for him next summer and therefor would want him to do well.
You're missing the point.

joey13
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Re: Wells

Post by joey13 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:44 pm

They haven’t got the money to pay his wages

Woodleyclaret
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Re: Wells

Post by Woodleyclaret » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:11 pm

I never understand why we bought him originally
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FactualFrank
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Re: Wells

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:13 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:I never understand why we bought him originally
Better than what we had in the youth, and was there incase of injuries. Nobody knew whether we'd get those injuries or not, so it was simply a sensible 'just in case'.

Hibsclaret
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Re: Wells

Post by Hibsclaret » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:05 pm

KRBFC wrote:He clearly isn't wanted, couldn't even make the bench against Aberdeen. Head scratching signing really, it was never going to work out especially with the lack of chance he's been given.
I’d hardly call it head scratching. He has clearly not done enough in training to be good enough to get into the team. I heard he is not the best trainer and when you see clips of him chewing gum whilst training it is likely that Dyche has not been impressed

KRBFC
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Re: Wells

Post by KRBFC » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:12 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:I’d hardly call it head scratching. He has clearly not done enough in training to be good enough to get into the team. I heard he is not the best trainer and when you see clips of him chewing gum whilst training it is likely that Dyche has not been impressed
Yeah that's the reason, blame the chewing gum.

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Re: Wells

Post by Hibsclaret » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:15 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah that's the reason, blame the chewing gum.
Lol. Good to see you can read. Rumour has it he’s a bad trainer. Just pick out the one comment.

It’s like when you employ any staff you only find out when you work with them that they don’t always fit in

KRBFC
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Re: Wells

Post by KRBFC » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:43 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Lol. Good to see you can read. Rumour has it he’s a bad trainer. Just pick out the one comment.

It’s like when you employ any staff you only find out when you work with them that they don’t always fit in
But we are always told we put all the effort into the fine details when recruiting players, surely someone would have told Dyche he's a bad trainer. I think you're reading too much into it, he's not good enough and never was good enough for PL level and that's why he hasn't featured much.

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Re: Wells

Post by joey13 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:45 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Better than what we had in the youth, and was there incase of injuries. Nobody knew whether we'd get those injuries or not, so it was simply a sensible 'just in case'.
He was injured when we bought him

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Re: Wells

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:52 pm

joey13 wrote:He was injured when we bought him
You miss the point. It was a purchase incase of injuries later - not immediately.

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Re: Wells

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:07 pm

Surplus to requirements at huddersfield should have told us something....five million pounds...wow...got to be up there with juke for most shocking transfer up front, strange we’ve never seen him start a match tho!
Last edited by Giftonsnoidea on Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wells

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:11 pm

ClaretTony wrote:We didn't sign up to anything though, it was a tribunal decision. But I believe we are entitled to 20% of any profit Liverpool make on him so that suggests it should include any loan fee. When I get the opportunity though I'll certainly ask the question.
So its reported as 20m -6m so we get 3m off liverpool?

Maybe the loan fee is to shaft us of that portion of sell on, could be

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