Dyche’s comments re: Thursday’s team

[LoveCurryPies]

Let's face it last season was a freak that's extremely unlikely to be repeated.

Last season's success was down to determination and hard work. Providing we don't change our approach, I don't see any reason it can't be repeated.

[jlup1980]

Let's face it last season was a freak that's extremely unlikely to be repeated. This is likely to be the one chance most of us get to watch us play in Europe in our lifetime. Sorry if I find that more exciting than playing the likes of Watford, Bournemouth etc.

We're improving year on year. 7th is a big ask, no doubt about that, but there's far more pressure on the likes of Everton, Leicester and West Ham to take that spot than us. For what it's worth I think we'll finish somewhere between 7th and 14th and we're actually starting to look like we belong at this level. There's no reason to think we can't succeed again this season. I agree 7th is unlikely, but it's impossible.

[Hendrickxz]

Hope we have recommended Istanbul to booking into the Keirby!

[ian]

A change is as good as a rest.

[claretspice]

I must say I immediately thought Dyche's comments were a little bit negative. Apart from anything else, we're still trying to sell tickets for Thursday's game and downplaying our interest in the competition is hardly going to help with that.

I think everyone who says the Premier League must be our priority is absolutely righ, but I'm not sure that surviving for surviving's sake is the right end game here. This period in our history, having established ourselves - as far as we realistically ever will - in the Premier League, is a golden opportunity. It's a chance to write some history and create some memories and some legends that can capture the imagination of young fans, in much the way that the successes of the early and mid-60s, and again for that brief period in the mid-70s, did for a couple of older generations. It was because of those successes and adventures that we had such a big fan base to call upon for a club and town of burnley's size once we came out of the Orient era.

Europe is a real chance to create some history, have some adventures, make some memories. We've got to weight that up against the risk of damaging our Premier League campaign (something a player or two more in the window might have helped with, but hey-ho, we move on), but we've got to keep that risk in proportion: This squad all grew up playing 46 league games in the Championship. I don't mind a change or two on Thursday to keep the squad fresh, but if we start seeing the likes of Jon Walters as automatic starters in Europe, then we're unlikely to go much further, and we'll be missing a real opportunity to create a legacy.

[Woodleyclaret]

Jon Walters is a consummate pro an Irish International with guile and experience.Just what is needed in difficult games.

[Cubanclaret]

By the way, to compare and contrast. Last year Everton got an easier draw, a minnow in Q3 and Split in the Play Off rounds. They had Stoke, City and Chelsea sandwiched amongst them.

Bar one change for Europe (Lookman) they played their best side in all of them. They won through to the group stages and got 4 points from 3 games in the PL. In the end, they finished where we would expect to this season, mid table, and had a good little run in Europe. Good for them. I hope we do the same.

Not sure Everton fans would reflect so positively on their Euro campaign last season. Their group stage was abject - embarrassing defeats to Atalanta (agg 1-8) and Lyon (agg 1-5) and they couldn't even beat Limassol at home. The only group game they won was a dead rubber at the end in Cyprus.

They took some real pastings in the league during that run too that led to the manager being axed. So however we go about it, I hope it is with better planning and delivery than Everton managed.

[claretspice]

Solid pro who has something to offer, for sure. But he's never been anything other than back up for us, which is no slight at all on him, just a fact. We've got to go out and aim to score at least one and quite possibly 2 goals on Thursday night, and so it will be a disappointment if our best crosser (Lowton), and best creative outlets (Lennon and JBG) aren't in the side.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Not sure Everton fans would reflect so positively on their Euro campaign last season. Their group stage was abject - embarrassing defeats to Atalanta (agg 1-8) and Lyon (agg 1-5) and they couldn't even beat Limassol at home. The only group game they won was a dead rubber at the end in Cyprus.

They took some real pastings in the league during that run too that led to the manager being axed. So however we go about it, I hope it is with better planning and delivery than Everton managed.

You are, as usual, spot on with your observations. My Dad is an Evertonian and I follow them with interest. We were taking the mickey early last season about Keane’s form and Koeman being too attacking. I remember though posting on here ahead of us beating them on 1st October that Everton had beaten everyone outside the big 6, and drawn at City, so in the part of the season I was talking about, they did fine. It just turned out Unsworth was rubbish as a manager and they needed Big Sam to tighten them up.

P.s. I also like ClaretSpice’s big post above. I agree with every word. I don’t WANT to fall out with Dyche if we chuck our place away with old fringe players, but my sense of disappointment would be so great that it would be inevitable. I desparately want to have stories of my own to tell the grandkids when and if they come, and beating Watford to go mid table doesn’t quite do it.

[Lancasterclaret]

You'll always have stories to tell your grandkids about Burnley though.

Its a squad system these days, and we'd be mad not to utilise the squad on thursday.

Taylor, Bardsley, Gibson, Walters, Vydra etc all need games as well.

[Quickenthetempo]

One or two changes isn't too bad but when a manager quotes that it's usually 6 or 7.

I don’t think Vydra is registered.

[dsr]

You'll always have stories to tell your grandkids about Burnley though.

Its a squad system these days, and we'd be mad not to utilise the squad on thursday.

Taylor, Bardsley, Gibson, Walters, Vydra etc all need games as well.

But why not league games? If all the reserves are going to play only in Cup games, then the chances are they'll only get 3 - Thursday, League Cup 3rd, FA Cup 3rd.

[Lancasterclaret]

Then they shouldn't be anywhere near the first team then.

He's going to make four, maybe five changes.

Nothing wrong with that

[claretspice]

Not sure I agree, Lancaster. No use pretending that Bardsley and Walters are of the same calibre as the players they'd replace, because they aren't - particularly in a game where the onus is on us to create something.

No problem with Vydra (if fit) and Gibson starting, or indeed Taylor starting, nor for that matter Heaton starting - they're not necessarily players who weaken our chances of progressing. But if we're going a bit further than that, then I think we're taking unnecessary risks with our chances of progressing in a competition that creates a totally different sort of legacy than the Premier League does.

[dsr]

Then they shouldn't be anywhere near the first team then.

He's going to make four, maybe five changes.

Nothing wrong with that

But if the changes don't make much difference, why not change the Watford team and play full strength in the Cup team?

[Lancasterclaret]

But they need games Spice, and they are both established premier league players.

if he starts Heaton,Bardsley, Gibson, Taylor, Vokes then thats five changes out of 11.

I doubt he'll make more than that.

The advantage of the small squad is that they all know they have a chance of playing, but the disadvantages are that we are one injury out wide from a real problem (though I know we could have players playing there at a push)

If we start Heaton, Bardsley, Gibson, Mee, Taylor, JBG, Cork, Hendrick, Westwood, Walters and Vokes, then that is a team that should have enough to get us through, and its a few changes as well.

[Lancasterclaret]

DSR, if they are not good enough to beat Istanbul whatevertheyarecalled, then they are certainly going to struggle against Watford.

[dsr]

I'd have though Istanbul whosit would be a good bit better than Watford.

[JTClaret]

I don't think changes are a bad thing.
We have a bigger squad to the point the team he chooses on Thursday MAY be considered better than the one yesterday by some people.
Heaton, Taylor, Gibson, Barnes and Vokes could start, all of whom are quality players.

I want to qualify for the group stages... after that I'm not bothered. And the PL has to be priority.
It'd be fantastic to see us in a European cup, not just trying to qualify for one.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'd agree that they are a much tougher team at this stage then we'd like, but I think most premier league teams would fancy their chances over two legs.

[Mala591]

Some players, those who have quick recovery times and are less injury-prone, can actually thrive on two games per week - no real reason to rotate them. Taking this into account, we need to select our strongest eleven for every PL and EL match. I would save 'unnecessary rotation' for the domestic cup competitions.

[claretspice]

But they need games Spice, and they are both established premier league players.

if he starts Heaton,Bardsley, Gibson, Taylor, Vokes then thats five changes out of 11.

I doubt he'll make more than that.

The advantage of the small squad is that they all know they have a chance of playing, but the disadvantages are that we are one injury out wide from a real problem (though I know we could have players playing there at a push)

If we start Heaton, Bardsley, Gibson, Mee, Taylor, JBG, Cork, Hendrick, Westwood, Walters and Vokes, then that is a team that should have enough to get us through, and its a few changes as well.

But if we had a league game this mid-week, as we might well have done in the Championship in the week after the opening weekend, we wouldn't be making those changes, irrespective of the argument these players need games. They didn't get games at this time last season because there was no game to play. So why does the logic suddenly need to go into reverse?

If a change doesn't really alter the strength of the team but keeps people fresh, fine. If a player has a genuine knock so is 50/50, then fine - play it safe. as the squad is too stretched to afford those risks. I'd advocate the same approach if we had a Premier League game. But if we're making changes to weaken the team just to give people games - then no thanks, play the strongest team we can, the team that gives us the best chance of scoring twice on the night.

Lets go and achieve something memorable, which we talk about in 50 years time.

[joey13]

Maybe if more investment had been made in improving the squad Dyche wouldn’t need to make those comments

[KateR]

my thoughts are if you have a squad you ahve several positions that will be the backbone of the team for the 2 comps we are in at the moment, that backbone does not include GK, that's because we have very good options at GK. We don't have 2 full teams to change so I think odd Thursday's will see a few changes each Thursday from what he considers the first 11 for the PL games.

Gibson is a 15MM player, I would hope he is not the type to be happy sitting on a bench so he will want to be involved and it maybe he plays Europe, don't see BM & Tarks wanting to sit and watch either. I was impressed with Tayler and think he and Bardsley should get runs out all of which keeps the players fresh to step in when needed due to injury/red cards.

Heaton and Hart will be his biggest headache in the short term simply because of TH injury be he needs to be back playing so will Hart move to the Europa GK, we will see Thursday.

I don't see us winning the Europa League so in essance it's a secondary priority to PL which hopefully we all agree with, a cup run would be great for all also but not if it is a detriment to the PL. I'm sure he will have difficult decisions to make all the way through our exciting European tour but am equally sure he will thrive on it, it's also a learning curve for him. Looking forward to see how he employs our 3 new players with the team we finished with last year Just rambling as usual

[Lancasterclaret]

Maybe, but we are only short now because of niggling injuries.

Spice, I want us to make the group stages and I still think the side that is out on Thurs will be enough to win it.

Its his call, and its worth bearing in mind that there is no guarantee that we go through even with a full strength side.

[jrgbfc]

No reason they can't play 2 games a week in August, particularly when there's an international break at the end of the month. Let's play as strong a team as possible and give ourselves the best chance of progressing.

[quoonbeatz]

heaton can't play, he isn't registered.

i'd take dyche's comments with a pinch of salt, tbh, we'll have a strong side out on thursday.

[Blackrod]

The fans perspective is probably different from the boards. It is a balancing act and I'm sure we will put out a good team on Thursday. Another slant is nobody will remember or care if you earn a £million. They will remember if you achieved something. Europa may never happen again and will be noted in the history books.

[CrosspoolClarets]

You'll always have stories to tell your grandkids about Burnley though.

Its a squad system these days, and we'd be mad not to utilise the squad on thursday.

Taylor, Bardsley, Gibson, Walters, Vydra etc all need games as well.

Seriously Lancs, you make it sound like a development squad game. Soulless, passionless, pointless. That isn't who we are as a club. The best thing Coyle did in his time here was go strong in the cups in that season - it kicked us on in the league, and we squeaked into the play offs and the rest is history. Thursday is the modern equivalent of that, because I would agree we have outgrown the domestic cups in terms of importance compared to league games.

You also suggest that we should get past Istanbul. Have you seen Istanbul? Visca makes Lennon look slow and only De Bruyne had more assists last year in the top leagues. He was MOM again last night, just like last Thursday. Remember when Ireland beat Bosnia to quality for Euro 2016 in the play offs? This is what the BBC said about Visca (who is better now, and Walters, who scored the goals that got them through, is worse):

"Brady struggled for much of the contest as both he and Republic left-back Stephen Ward found Bosnia right-sided midfielder Edin Visca a handful."

If we don't play our proper team, we lose, in all probability. And that would be unforgivable for me.

[dsr]

I don't see us winning the Europa League so in essance it's a secondary priority to PL which hopefully we all agree with, a cup run would be great for all also but not if it is a detriment to the PL. I'm sure he will have difficult decisions to make all the way through our exciting European tour but am equally sure he will thrive on it, it's also a learning curve for him. Looking forward to see how he employs our 3 new players with the team we finished with last year Just rambling as usual

What I don't agree with is the theory that relegation is likely if we try hard in Europe, but not likely if we give up in Europe.

I never liked the attitude of "this is too hard, let's not try" and I'm surprised if Dyche does.

[Blackrod]

Solid pro who has something to offer, for sure. But he's never been anything other than back up for us, which is no slight at all on him, just a fact. We've got to go out and aim to score at least one and quite possibly 2 goals on Thursday night, and so it will be a disappointment if our best crosser (Lowton), and best creative outlets (Lennon and JBG) aren't in the side.

Agree. I don't think one or two changes such as Taylor for Ward will weaken us too much but if we player the likes of Walters or Bardsley it will.

[Spijed]

I'm sure he will have difficult decisions to make all the way through our exciting European tour

If we lose on Thursday it won't be seen as an exciting European tour, far from it.

[quoonbeatz]

If we lose on Thursday it won't be seen as an exciting European tour, far from it.

i've found it pretty exciting so far.

[jrgbfc]

The likes of Taylor and Gibson starting won't necessarily weaken us in my opinion. If we start making wholesale changes it's highly likely we'll get knocked out.

[Spijed]

i've found it pretty exciting so far.

But there will be a case of "What might have been", especially if we make too many changes, and there will be a bit of regret in weeks to come.

[claretspice]

i've found it pretty exciting so far.

Its been enjoyable. But I think if we were to go out at this point there'd be a definite sense of having been given an interesting canapé but denied a main course. The real excitement comes if we start playing the brand names of Europe - and that would start with Olympiakos.

[quoonbeatz]

But there will be a case of "What might have been", especially if we make too many changes, and there will be a bit of regret in weeks to come.

same as any cup competition.

[quoonbeatz]

Its been enjoyable. But I think if we were to go out at this point there'd be a definite sense of having been given an interesting canapé but denied a main course. The real excitement comes if we start playing the brand names of Europe - and that would start with Olympiakos.

obviously. i want us to make the group stage. we've not exactly been drawn against minnows up to now though.

[Spijed]

same as any cup competition.

The difference is we go again the the FA Cup next year, the year after...and so on.

It's been 51 years since we last played in Europe and realistically the next time we do so many on here won't be around to see it.

[quoonbeatz]

The difference is we go again the the FA Cup next year, the year after...and so on.

It's been 51 years since we last played in Europe and realistically the next time we do so many on here won't be around to see it.

not sure what your point is spijed, we're playing a decent team on thursday and there's a good chance we could go out. there's an even better chance of us going out in the next round.

although the game last week was crap, its been pretty exciting so far i'd say. even if we don't make the group stage it will still have been exciting. i've had a great time so far.

[claretspice]

obviously. i want us to make the group stage. we've not exactly been drawn against minnows up to now though.

And if we go out having played out our strongest team and given it our best shot, then c'est la vie. That's all anyone wants I suppose.

Given where we are in the pecking order these days, we ought to be strong enough to give any cup a seriously good crack. But given Europe comes around so rarely for a club like ours, we owe it to ourselves to give it a full tilt.

[quoonbeatz]

And if we go out having played out our strongest team and given it our best shot, then c'est la vie. That's all anyone wants I suppose.

Given where we are in the pecking order these days, we ought to be strong enough to give any cup a seriously good crack. But given Europe comes around so rarely for a club like ours, we owe it to ourselves to give it a full tilt.

yep, as i said earlier, i reckon we'll have a strong enough team out on thursday.

i think we can take olympiakos as well, we're pretty good.

[Selby Claret]

Just for clarity:

Heaton / Defour / Vydra / Wells - NOT in current Europa squad

Brady, however, is...

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/s ... 354/squad/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Devils_Advocate]

Problem for me isn't necessarily making some changes but that we fell a bit short in the transfer market. Had we got Bolasie and Jay for example I don't think people would have minded us rotating Lennon, JBG & Bolasie and had we got Jay then we could have mixed up the strikers with some good options and not been left really short by a freak injury to Wood.

Having to play Walters out wide and Barnes as a lone striker with Hendrick behind him ( I think both are good players but this combo kills them both) really stifled our options and the knock on effect is that less vital changes like leaving out Lowton become more noticeable.

I feel for those who travelled all that way but I can see why he played the side he did in Turkey but if Lowton, Lennon and Wood (i'd accept Vokes and Barnes up top instead) aren't playing Thursday I will be really disappointed

[KateR]

What I don't agree with is the theory that relegation is likely if we try hard in Europe, but not likely if we give up in Europe.

I never liked the attitude of "this is too hard, let's not try" and I'm surprised if Dyche does.

am kind of on the fence with that or in other words don't know, I "believe" some teams that have gone in to Europe also got relegated but how many and was that the real effect from trying to hard I suppose we will never know. However I do firmly believe should in the verly unlikely event it happened to us this board might melt down with the I told you so and he's clueless.

Am vermly in the we/he should try very hard to get us as far as possible in the Europa and not throw kids in for example, so a difficult balancing act. Really don't want to be saying well, we were not bothered that's for sure

[Bordeauxclaret]

Pretty honest comments from Dyche.
It shows really why a lot of people, including Dyche, wanted more quality signings in.

That said the players who will come in will be good enough. I can’t see him experimenting with the youngsters.

[KateR]

If we lose on Thursday it won't be seen as an exciting European tour, far from it.

It's been exciting to me since May, sometimes I enjoy the planning and getting ready better than the destination, every game is a bonus for me, but 100% agree the excitement builds with every game and don't want it to stop now for sure

[houseboy]

Listened to the Southampton game and we sounded outstanding, deserved a win, very bad luck with the offside.

So depressing though to hear Dyche’s tiring comments after the game, hinting at making more changes for Thursday. I’ve been saying it all pre-season, mainly because the guy is so damn predictable, that when every home game is a minimum 150 mile drive, if we wait so long to get into Europe and then chuck it away against a really good team, I’m entitled to ask, “what’s the point?”. I suspect I would be far from the only one furious with it. Burnley fans have been going on about European history for 50 years, we have a hunger for more of it, and as we try to become “established”, mid table can be quite a boring place.

The game is no different to a Sat/Wed/Sat Premier league run of three games. Being at home has to help.

I’m sure the team will go full tilt, this is the highlight of their careers some of them, but a bit like League and FA Cups, they are bound to question in their heads why they are asked to give 100% when the manager doesn’t prioritise that competition.

A real shame if Sean won my total support with his fantastic approach to maximum effort being the minimum requirement, but then lost that support by not exerting the same effort himself. I sense without exaggeration it would be the beginning of the end, and I just hope he sees sense, but I can feel a kind of foreboding about it. We would become a bit like Stoke when they started getting fed up with Pulis - pragmatism can be accepted when it gives the fans what they desire, but not when it deliberately doesn’t.

No need to chastise me for my unusual pessimism, I’m chastising myself, but I want what I want - a European run.

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/new ... ning-draw/

Absolutely agree! I've been banging on about this ad nauseam for ages. People work hard and don't get paid 25/30/40k per week and their hard earned should not be spent on watching the reserves, it's downright disrespectful. I hate to criticise Sean but if he is falling into the same category as many other managers (and he seems to be) it is a shame. I'm not going to go off on one about the importance of Europe or the PL, I've done it enough before, but if we have waited this long and all we are going to do is throw it away because highly paid professional footballers can't play two games a week I wonder why we bother.

[houseboy]

Jon Walters is a consummate pro an Irish International with guile and experience.Just what is needed in difficult games.

He's also 103 years old.

[Falcon]

Just want to say given the initial few posts piling in against them that I agree with the OP to an extent, and that extent is that their point is only true if Dyche plays a seriously weakened side on Thursday. If it's just a few tweaks here and there with no less good players moving in then that'll be hunky dory, but if it looks like we've "thrown' the game in order to have a better chance against Watford then I would be seriously ****** off.

However all of this, and every other post on this thread, is immaterial until we see what XI is played on Thursday.