jrgbfc wrote:Let's face it last season was a freak that's extremely unlikely to be repeated.
Last season's success was down to determination and hard work. Providing we don't change our approach, I don't see any reason it can't be repeated.
jrgbfc wrote:Let's face it last season was a freak that's extremely unlikely to be repeated.
We're improving year on year. 7th is a big ask, no doubt about that, but there's far more pressure on the likes of Everton, Leicester and West Ham to take that spot than us. For what it's worth I think we'll finish somewhere between 7th and 14th and we're actually starting to look like we belong at this level. There's no reason to think we can't succeed again this season. I agree 7th is unlikely, but it's impossible.jrgbfc wrote:Let's face it last season was a freak that's extremely unlikely to be repeated. This is likely to be the one chance most of us get to watch us play in Europe in our lifetime. Sorry if I find that more exciting than playing the likes of Watford, Bournemouth etc.
Not sure Everton fans would reflect so positively on their Euro campaign last season. Their group stage was abject - embarrassing defeats to Atalanta (agg 1-8) and Lyon (agg 1-5) and they couldn't even beat Limassol at home. The only group game they won was a dead rubber at the end in Cyprus.CrosspoolClarets wrote:By the way, to compare and contrast. Last year Everton got an easier draw, a minnow in Q3 and Split in the Play Off rounds. They had Stoke, City and Chelsea sandwiched amongst them.
Bar one change for Europe (Lookman) they played their best side in all of them. They won through to the group stages and got 4 points from 3 games in the PL. In the end, they finished where we would expect to this season, mid table, and had a good little run in Europe. Good for them. I hope we do the same.
You are, as usual, spot on with your observations. My Dad is an Evertonian and I follow them with interest. We were taking the mickey early last season about Keane’s form and Koeman being too attacking. I remember though posting on here ahead of us beating them on 1st October that Everton had beaten everyone outside the big 6, and drawn at City, so in the part of the season I was talking about, they did fine. It just turned out Unsworth was rubbish as a manager and they needed Big Sam to tighten them up.Cubanclaret wrote:Not sure Everton fans would reflect so positively on their Euro campaign last season. Their group stage was abject - embarrassing defeats to Atalanta (agg 1-8) and Lyon (agg 1-5) and they couldn't even beat Limassol at home. The only group game they won was a dead rubber at the end in Cyprus.
They took some real pastings in the league during that run too that led to the manager being axed. So however we go about it, I hope it is with better planning and delivery than Everton managed.
But why not league games? If all the reserves are going to play only in Cup games, then the chances are they'll only get 3 - Thursday, League Cup 3rd, FA Cup 3rd.Lancasterclaret wrote:You'll always have stories to tell your grandkids about Burnley though.
Its a squad system these days, and we'd be mad not to utilise the squad on thursday.
Taylor, Bardsley, Gibson, Walters, Vydra etc all need games as well.
But if the changes don't make much difference, why not change the Watford team and play full strength in the Cup team?Lancasterclaret wrote:Then they shouldn't be anywhere near the first team then.
He's going to make four, maybe five changes.
Nothing wrong with that
But if we had a league game this mid-week, as we might well have done in the Championship in the week after the opening weekend, we wouldn't be making those changes, irrespective of the argument these players need games. They didn't get games at this time last season because there was no game to play. So why does the logic suddenly need to go into reverse?Lancasterclaret wrote:But they need games Spice, and they are both established premier league players.
if he starts Heaton,Bardsley, Gibson, Taylor, Vokes then thats five changes out of 11.
I doubt he'll make more than that.
The advantage of the small squad is that they all know they have a chance of playing, but the disadvantages are that we are one injury out wide from a real problem (though I know we could have players playing there at a push)
If we start Heaton, Bardsley, Gibson, Mee, Taylor, JBG, Cork, Hendrick, Westwood, Walters and Vokes, then that is a team that should have enough to get us through, and its a few changes as well.
Seriously Lancs, you make it sound like a development squad game. Soulless, passionless, pointless. That isn't who we are as a club. The best thing Coyle did in his time here was go strong in the cups in that season - it kicked us on in the league, and we squeaked into the play offs and the rest is history. Thursday is the modern equivalent of that, because I would agree we have outgrown the domestic cups in terms of importance compared to league games.Lancasterclaret wrote:You'll always have stories to tell your grandkids about Burnley though.
Its a squad system these days, and we'd be mad not to utilise the squad on thursday.
Taylor, Bardsley, Gibson, Walters, Vydra etc all need games as well.
What I don't agree with is the theory that relegation is likely if we try hard in Europe, but not likely if we give up in Europe.KateR wrote:I don't see us winning the Europa League so in essance it's a secondary priority to PL which hopefully we all agree with, a cup run would be great for all also but not if it is a detriment to the PL. I'm sure he will have difficult decisions to make all the way through our exciting European tour but am equally sure he will thrive on it, it's also a learning curve for him. Looking forward to see how he employs our 3 new players with the team we finished with last year Just rambling as usual
Agree. I don't think one or two changes such as Taylor for Ward will weaken us too much but if we player the likes of Walters or Bardsley it will.claretspice wrote:Solid pro who has something to offer, for sure. But he's never been anything other than back up for us, which is no slight at all on him, just a fact. We've got to go out and aim to score at least one and quite possibly 2 goals on Thursday night, and so it will be a disappointment if our best crosser (Lowton), and best creative outlets (Lennon and JBG) aren't in the side.
If we lose on Thursday it won't be seen as an exciting European tour, far from it.KateR wrote:I'm sure he will have difficult decisions to make all the way through our exciting European tour
Spijed wrote:If we lose on Thursday it won't be seen as an exciting European tour, far from it.
But there will be a case of "What might have been", especially if we make too many changes, and there will be a bit of regret in weeks to come.quoonbeatz wrote:i've found it pretty exciting so far.
Its been enjoyable. But I think if we were to go out at this point there'd be a definite sense of having been given an interesting canapé but denied a main course. The real excitement comes if we start playing the brand names of Europe - and that would start with Olympiakos.quoonbeatz wrote:i've found it pretty exciting so far.
same as any cup competition.Spijed wrote:But there will be a case of "What might have been", especially if we make too many changes, and there will be a bit of regret in weeks to come.
obviously. i want us to make the group stage. we've not exactly been drawn against minnows up to now though.claretspice wrote:Its been enjoyable. But I think if we were to go out at this point there'd be a definite sense of having been given an interesting canapé but denied a main course. The real excitement comes if we start playing the brand names of Europe - and that would start with Olympiakos.
The difference is we go again the the FA Cup next year, the year after...and so on.quoonbeatz wrote:same as any cup competition.
not sure what your point is spijed, we're playing a decent team on thursday and there's a good chance we could go out. there's an even better chance of us going out in the next round.Spijed wrote:The difference is we go again the the FA Cup next year, the year after...and so on.
It's been 51 years since we last played in Europe and realistically the next time we do so many on here won't be around to see it.
And if we go out having played out our strongest team and given it our best shot, then c'est la vie. That's all anyone wants I suppose.quoonbeatz wrote:obviously. i want us to make the group stage. we've not exactly been drawn against minnows up to now though.
yep, as i said earlier, i reckon we'll have a strong enough team out on thursday.claretspice wrote:And if we go out having played out our strongest team and given it our best shot, then c'est la vie. That's all anyone wants I suppose.
Given where we are in the pecking order these days, we ought to be strong enough to give any cup a seriously good crack. But given Europe comes around so rarely for a club like ours, we owe it to ourselves to give it a full tilt.
am kind of on the fence with that or in other words don't know, I "believe" some teams that have gone in to Europe also got relegated but how many and was that the real effect from trying to hard I suppose we will never know. However I do firmly believe should in the verly unlikely event it happened to us this board might melt down with the I told you so and he's clueless.dsr wrote:What I don't agree with is the theory that relegation is likely if we try hard in Europe, but not likely if we give up in Europe.
I never liked the attitude of "this is too hard, let's not try" and I'm surprised if Dyche does.
It's been exciting to me since May, sometimes I enjoy the planning and getting ready better than the destination, every game is a bonus for me, but 100% agree the excitement builds with every game and don't want it to stop now for sureSpijed wrote:If we lose on Thursday it won't be seen as an exciting European tour, far from it.
Absolutely agree! I've been banging on about this ad nauseam for ages. People work hard and don't get paid 25/30/40k per week and their hard earned should not be spent on watching the reserves, it's downright disrespectful. I hate to criticise Sean but if he is falling into the same category as many other managers (and he seems to be) it is a shame. I'm not going to go off on one about the importance of Europe or the PL, I've done it enough before, but if we have waited this long and all we are going to do is throw it away because highly paid professional footballers can't play two games a week I wonder why we bother.CrosspoolClarets wrote:Listened to the Southampton game and we sounded outstanding, deserved a win, very bad luck with the offside.
So depressing though to hear Dyche’s tiring comments after the game, hinting at making more changes for Thursday. I’ve been saying it all pre-season, mainly because the guy is so damn predictable, that when every home game is a minimum 150 mile drive, if we wait so long to get into Europe and then chuck it away against a really good team, I’m entitled to ask, “what’s the point?”. I suspect I would be far from the only one furious with it. Burnley fans have been going on about European history for 50 years, we have a hunger for more of it, and as we try to become “established”, mid table can be quite a boring place.
The game is no different to a Sat/Wed/Sat Premier league run of three games. Being at home has to help.
I’m sure the team will go full tilt, this is the highlight of their careers some of them, but a bit like League and FA Cups, they are bound to question in their heads why they are asked to give 100% when the manager doesn’t prioritise that competition.
A real shame if Sean won my total support with his fantastic approach to maximum effort being the minimum requirement, but then lost that support by not exerting the same effort himself. I sense without exaggeration it would be the beginning of the end, and I just hope he sees sense, but I can feel a kind of foreboding about it. We would become a bit like Stoke when they started getting fed up with Pulis - pragmatism can be accepted when it gives the fans what they desire, but not when it deliberately doesn’t.
No need to chastise me for my unusual pessimism, I’m chastising myself, but I want what I want - a European run.
https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/new ... ning-draw/
He's also 103 years old.Woodleyclaret wrote:Jon Walters is a consummate pro an Irish International with guile and experience.Just what is needed in difficult games.