Why is left wing politics dying a painful death...?

[houseboy]

If people haven’t said these things of all Brexit voters (and presuming they have said them of most Brexit voters) then the simple answer to your original question is that you are an anomaly.

Now THAT is a proper answer. Good man, you have my vote. That was all I was seeking, an opinion. Because in the end that is all any of us have.

[JTClaret]

I agree with you there mate. I don't watch the news that often now either and unfortunately politics, which I used to be active in and indeed studied at college, now bores me with it's constant reference to personalities and the dreaded 'negative campaigning'. Parties now on the run up to an election, or even if one is muted as possible, no longer concentrate on what they will do and what they stand for but rather just try to make the opposition look like the bogeyman everyone should be scared of.....'if you let Labour in this dreadful thing will happen' or 'if the Tories win we will all be (insert any damn thing you like). Scare tactics abound now (it did even in the referendum on Brexit) and all we want is for someone, anyone, to stand up and say 'look, this is what we are going to do, have a good look at it, here are the facts (probably lies unfortunately) and make up your own mind who you want to govern you for the next 4/5 years'.
I dream of the day when parties stop playing this game of look who is behind you and actually get around to speaking the truth for once. The problem we have is, and it was probably always true to some degree, parties are NOT bothered so much about the country and the state of the economy, they only care about their chances of gaining power and they will now do and say whatever it takes to get hold of or keep it.

I'd say this is why Trump got in.
People hate him, apart from those who voted for him - because he's attempting to do what he said, granted in the bullish, lunatic style he does.
Negativity does not work on people (I work in marketing and the stats on negativity vs positivity is really quite fascinating). Tell someone why something is good and they will listen even if there is a down-side, tell them why something is bad and they switch off because nobody wants to hear the bad stuff.

[quoonbeatz]

Jurek stated "hundreds of thousands", so it's not true.

its a figure of speech, just means a large number.

[burnleymik]

its a figure of speech, just means a large number.

His comment insinuated that the majority joining Labour were young people and even cited "hundreds of thousands". That isn;t a figure of speech, that is misinformation on both counts. The Majority are older middle class people.

[quoonbeatz]

His comment insinuated that the majority joining Labour were young people and even cited "hundreds of thousands". That isn;t a figure of speech, that is misinformation on both counts. The Majority are older middle class people.

nope, it clearly states that hundreds of thousands of people have joined labour in the last few years, which is true, its a couple of hundred thousand since 2015 isn't it. they weren't mainly young people though, so you treat yourself to a point there.

[NottsClaret]

https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-suppo ... g-11472815

One thing's for sure, the further left or right you go, everyone looks the same. Always ends up with a cult leadership and dimwitted, poorly dressed followers wanting a revolution or a scrap.

I could just as easily posted a link to some brainless Trump or Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon fans, but the Turtle has no doubt already done it somewhere.

[LaLigaClaret]

I truly believe that people's trust in politicians of all parties is dying and a good job too. Politicians live in a make believe bubble, only caring about their own careers and self interest. They always look short term only caring about the next election. Nothing much ever changes because politicians don't like to make too much change in case it upsets their supporters and they might lose the next election.


I have never been so disillusioned about politics before. Negativity, name calling, disgraceful hate campaigns and media witch hunts beleaguer our democracy now. Few politicians take responsibility for anything, few will ever answer a direct question, few will ever admit to being wrong but the worst thing of all is the blatant lies and deceit that is used virtually all the time.

People all around the world are sending the clear message that they are fed up to the back teeth of career politicians.

The Labour Party (whom I used to vote for all my life) have descended into a petulant, childish rabble who spend all their time being insular and caring more about special interest groups within their own organisation, too much time on the rights of illegal immigrants, and too much time on petty issues rather than caring about people in the UK.

The Conservative party only care about making the rich richer whilst penalising less advantaged people. They preside over so many institutions and services that are in chaos and on the point of collapse. They have totally screwed up Brexit and dither over every decision about everything. Theresa May easily the weakest, most useless and gormless Prime Minister we have ever had has put out virtually every policy or decision on anything out for consultation. I read a couple of months that she has put out over 1600 issues requiring a decision to consultation, meaning delay, increased cost and of course never making any changes or implementing anything in the vain hope we all forget what the issue was but we have all been conned into thinking she is actually doing anything.


The Lberals (a cross between Billy Smarts Circus and Jackanory) live in a parallel universe where no policy is wacky enough or just plain laughed at.

The Greens would have us all living in caves with no electricity, no transport and no future. Bonkers beyond words.

UKIP had the great idea of leaving the EU but disintegrated on a lot else besides without Nigel Farrage to lead them.


The Welsh Nationalists ? Who are they and do they still exist ?


The Scottish Nationalists are just a joke pure and simple. Their amusing ramblings and burblings on Scottish Independance keep me laughing at every opportunity. If ever there was a more unbelievable policy I've yet to find one. They wouldn't last a week as an independent nation in the real world.

So there you have it. Everything is in place for a genuine new populist party based on what most sensible people want to see happen in this country to form and providing it doesn't follow the path of all the others above it will succeed at some point in the not too distant future. All it needs is a leader people can believe in, sensible sane policies that are fair, show humility and to be truthful in telling people what the pro's and cons of a decision are then it will sweep in and whats more will probably do so for many years.

[claretandy]

What did Corbyn do to receive the Nobel peace prize ? answers on a postcard.

[evensteadiereddie]

Dunno.

[tiger76]

I truly believe that people's trust in politicians of all parties is dying and a good job too. Politicians live in a make believe bubble, only caring about their own careers and self interest. They always look short term only caring about the next election. Nothing much ever changes because politicians don't like to make too much change in case it upsets their supporters and they might lose the next election.


I have never been so disillusioned about politics before. Negativity, name calling, disgraceful hate campaigns and media witch hunts beleaguer our democracy now. Few politicians take responsibility for anything, few will ever answer a direct question, few will ever admit to being wrong but the worst thing of all is the blatant lies and deceit that is used virtually all the time.

People all around the world are sending the clear message that they are fed up to the back teeth of career politicians.

The Labour Party (whom I used to vote for all my life) have descended into a petulant, childish rabble who spend all their time being insular and caring more about special interest groups within their own organisation, too much time on the rights of illegal immigrants, and too much time on petty issues rather than caring about people in the UK.

The Conservative party only care about making the rich richer whilst penalising less advantaged people. They preside over so many institutions and services that are in chaos and on the point of collapse. They have totally screwed up Brexit and dither over every decision about everything. Theresa May easily the weakest, most useless and gormless Prime Minister we have ever had has put out virtually every policy or decision on anything out for consultation. I read a couple of months that she has put out over 1600 issues requiring a decision to consultation, meaning delay, increased cost and of course never making any changes or implementing anything in the vain hope we all forget what the issue was but we have all been conned into thinking she is actually doing anything.


The Lberals (a cross between Billy Smarts Circus and Jackanory) live in a parallel universe where no policy is wacky enough or just plain laughed at.

The Greens would have us all living in caves with no electricity, no transport and no future. Bonkers beyond words.

UKIP had the great idea of leaving the EU but disintegrated on a lot else besides without Nigel Farrage to lead them.


The Welsh Nationalists ? Who are they and do they still exist ?


The Scottish Nationalists are just a joke pure and simple. Their amusing ramblings and burblings on Scottish Independance keep me laughing at every opportunity. If ever there was a more unbelievable policy I've yet to find one. They wouldn't last a week as an independent nation in the real world.

So there you have it. Everything is in place for a genuine new populist party based on what most sensible people want to see happen in this country to form and providing it doesn't follow the path of all the others above it will succeed at some point in the not too distant future. All it needs is a leader people can believe in, sensible sane policies that are fair, show humility and to be truthful in telling people what the pro's and cons of a decision are then it will sweep in and whats more will probably do so for many years.

A lengthy post but spot on LaLiga,i don't except miracles but basic competence would suffice,not one of the above can offer that,when the next election comes people might as well vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party or any independents that stand.

The so called socialist opposition should be shouting from the rooftops about issues such as this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45183881 alas they are too busy fighting amongst each other.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45185931

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-45200674

[Imploding Turtle]

I truly believe that people's trust in politicians of all parties is dying and a good job too. Politicians live in a make believe bubble, only caring about their own careers and self interest. They always look short term only caring about the next election. Nothing much ever changes because politicians don't like to make too much change in case it upsets their supporters and they might lose the next election.


I have never been so disillusioned about politics before. Negativity, name calling, disgraceful hate campaigns and media witch hunts beleaguer our democracy now. Few politicians take responsibility for anything, few will ever answer a direct question, few will ever admit to being wrong but the worst thing of all is the blatant lies and deceit that is used virtually all the time.

People all around the world are sending the clear message that they are fed up to the back teeth of career politicians.

The Labour Party (whom I used to vote for all my life) have descended into a petulant, childish rabble who spend all their time being insular and caring more about special interest groups within their own organisation, too much time on the rights of illegal immigrants, and too much time on petty issues rather than caring about people in the UK.

The Conservative party only care about making the rich richer whilst penalising less advantaged people. They preside over so many institutions and services that are in chaos and on the point of collapse. They have totally screwed up Brexit and dither over every decision about everything. Theresa May easily the weakest, most useless and gormless Prime Minister we have ever had has put out virtually every policy or decision on anything out for consultation. I read a couple of months that she has put out over 1600 issues requiring a decision to consultation, meaning delay, increased cost and of course never making any changes or implementing anything in the vain hope we all forget what the issue was but we have all been conned into thinking she is actually doing anything.


The Lberals (a cross between Billy Smarts Circus and Jackanory) live in a parallel universe where no policy is wacky enough or just plain laughed at.

The Greens would have us all living in caves with no electricity, no transport and no future. Bonkers beyond words.

UKIP had the great idea of leaving the EU but disintegrated on a lot else besides without Nigel Farrage to lead them.


The Welsh Nationalists ? Who are they and do they still exist ?


The Scottish Nationalists are just a joke pure and simple. Their amusing ramblings and burblings on Scottish Independance keep me laughing at every opportunity. If ever there was a more unbelievable policy I've yet to find one. They wouldn't last a week as an independent nation in the real world.

So there you have it. Everything is in place for a genuine new populist party based on what most sensible people want to see happen in this country to form and providing it doesn't follow the path of all the others above it will succeed at some point in the not too distant future. All it needs is a leader people can believe in, sensible sane policies that are fair, show humility and to be truthful in telling people what the pro's and cons of a decision are then it will sweep in and whats more will probably do so for many years.

"The Conservative party only care about making the rich richer whilst penalising less advantaged people."

See? We can agree sometimes. But then you come out with wack-a-doodle **** like this and then you lose me again.
"The Greens would have us all living in caves with no electricity, no transport and no future. Bonkers beyond words."

[AndrewJB]

His comment insinuated that the majority joining Labour were young people and even cited "hundreds of thousands". That isn;t a figure of speech, that is misinformation on both counts. The Majority are older middle class people.

You're right technically that more people joining the Labour Party recently have been older rather than younger, however the party has still doubled its membership since 2015, and people have joined from every age group.

Perhaps a salient point is that in the last election a lot of young people signed up to vote and most of them voted Labour.

[If it be your will]

.

[houseboy]

I'd say this is why Trump got in.
People hate him, apart from those who voted for him - because he's attempting to do what he said, granted in the bullish, lunatic style he does.
Negativity does not work on people (I work in marketing and the stats on negativity vs positivity is really quite fascinating). Tell someone why something is good and they will listen even if there is a down-side, tell them why something is bad and they switch off because nobody wants to hear the bad stuff.

I agree with a lot of that. What you say about positivity and negativity is true to a large degree but here is the odd thing (and I worked in marketing and advertising for 20 odd years as well - mainly in publishing) people will indeed listen to positive stuff more that is true but the anomaly is with news. There is an old saying in the news industry (you've almost certainly heard it) that 'bad news sells' and this is so true. If you fill a front page with good news stories it passes by almost unnoticed but if there is a disaster of some kind or just a good old political scandal people flock to buy the papers and discuss it and analyse it. The voyeur in people is what makes them now take mobile phone videos of things that, really, they shouldn't (road accidents, people jumping off buildings, explosions, you name it). The human animal is an odd thing but I suppose it comes with the territory of being able to think, rationalise and analyse.

[AndrewJB]

I agree with a lot of that. What you say about positivity and negativity is true to a large degree but here is the odd thing (and I worked in marketing and advertising for 20 odd years as well - mainly in publishing) people will indeed listen to positive stuff more that is true but the anomaly is with news. There is an old saying in the news industry (you've almost certainly heard it) that 'bad news sells' and this is so true. If you fill a front page with good news stories it passes by almost unnoticed but if there is a disaster of some kind or just a good old political scandal people flock to buy the papers and discuss it and analyse it. The voyeur in people is what makes them now take mobile phone videos of things that, really, they shouldn't (road accidents, people jumping off buildings, explosions, you name it). The human animal is an odd thing but I suppose it comes with the territory of being able to think, rationalise and analyse.

And to carry your point further, the human animal is also defined by fear. Our brains tell us we want positive news, but our reaction to fear is instinctive, and often trumps common sense. This explains the success of negative campaigning. It's not enough to talk about how great things will be once your side wins (although there's a move away from that to massaging down expectations to; 'they won't be so bad'), but if you can get it into the public's head what might happen if the other side gets in, you'll motivate your voters more.

[burnleymik]

but if you can get it into the public's head what might happen if the other side gets in, you'll motivate your voters more.

This, in a nutshell, has been the problem. Instead of constantly throwing worst case scenarios at people, they should have been a little more conservative and honest about what is likely to happen. If you keep pushing the ultra negative, as you say, people switch off.

The left have this exact tendency, always push the very worst. "Far Right", "Nazi's" "Racists". This is why people no longer take them seriously, as the labels they use are the very worst imaginable and used so often that even they don't seem to understand the reason they are using them.

[houseboy]

And to carry your point further, the human animal is also defined by fear. Our brains tell us we want positive news, but our reaction to fear is instinctive, and often trumps common sense. This explains the success of negative campaigning. It's not enough to talk about how great things will be once your side wins (although there's a move away from that to massaging down expectations to; 'they won't be so bad'), but if you can get it into the public's head what might happen if the other side gets in, you'll motivate your voters more.

True. People love to hate, in a way, and if you create the bogeyman they WILL listen. The same thing happens in a time of conflict, the propaganda machine gets into full swing in order to win the hearts and minds of the 'masses' even if your side is in the wrong (Iraq?). Even during the war (1st or 2nd, it doesn't matter) the 'hun' were painted as some kind of baby eating, devil worshipping monsters and people believed it despite the fact that the average German was no different to you or I. In fact my dad met a few German soldiers during the war and he said they were decent blokes and honourable and brave soldiers.
What we are seeing now is the political parties using the same tactic (witness the disgraceful treatment of Corbyn - whether you love him or loath him he has been subject of a ridiculous amount of 'scaremongering' not seen in recent years or indeed ever that I can remember).
Unfortunately honesty and decency are in short supply in politics, more so than ever before, and, as in times of war, when an election is in the offing (or even when it isn't oft times) the old saying comes into play that the first casualty of war (or politics) is truth.

[AndrewJB]

This, in a nutshell, has been the problem. Instead of constantly throwing worst case scenarios at people, they should have been a little more conservative and honest about what is likely to happen. If you keep pushing the ultra negative, as you say, people switch off.

The left have this exact tendency, always push the very worst. "Far Right", "Nazi's" "Racists". This is why people no longer take them seriously, as the labels they use are the very worst imaginable and used so often that even they don't seem to understand the reason they are using them.

Both sides of most debates use negative campaigns. In the brexit debate there was the unrelenting (and stupid) negativity handed out by Cameron and Osborne, and also things by the leave campaign like the poster of a huge line of refugees, and the (equally stupid) spectre of seventy-five million Turks coming to live in Britain.

As for labels, they run both ways too. For every 'nazi' slur, you'll see the equal and opposite 'far left' or 'marxist' bandied about (neither of which are necessarily accurate or further actual debate).

[burnleymik]

Both sides of most debates use negative campaigns. In the brexit debate there was the unrelenting (and stupid) negativity handed out by Cameron and Osborne, and also things by the leave campaign like the poster of a huge line of refugees, and the (equally stupid) spectre of seventy-five million Turks coming to live in Britain.

As for labels, they run both ways too. For every 'nazi' slur, you'll see the equal and opposite 'far left' or 'marxist' bandied about (neither of which are necessarily accurate or further actual debate).

I can't disagree with any of that. Maybe it's my own bias, but it certainly feels like it comes more from one direction than the other.