Hoos tells QPR to leave Loftus Road

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:24 pm

Will the same have to happen with Burnley too at some stage, for the same reasons?

From the BBC

Queens Park Rangers need to leave Loftus Road for a new stadium so they can increase revenue, according to chief executive Lee Hoos.

The Championship club have played at the 18,439-capacity stadium since 1917.

"One of my remits when I came here was to try to create a sustainable business case for the club and we really can't do that at Loftus Road," he told BBC Sport.

"In order for us to compete I have to be able to get the revenue streams in."

He continued: "Do we need to move? Absolutely.

"We will have to move at some point in the future to make this a sustainable club. Where we move to is a separate question."

Wormwood Scrubs move for Rangers?

Hoos, who joined QPR in 2015 following spells at Southampton, Leicester and Burnley, says redevelopment of Loftus Road is a "non-starter" because of the lack of available land around the stadium.

In December 2013, Rangers announced plans to build a 40,000-seater stadium at Old Oak Common, in conjunction with a proposal for the construction of up to 24,000 new homes and a railway station.

However, that project stalled because land in the area is owned by car dealership Cargiant, and Hoos cannot see those plans progressing.

Rangers are now looking at the logistics of a possible redevelopment of the Linford Christie Stadium athletics venue, about a mile north of Loftus Road, which is currently run by the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham.

But Hoos admitted the site, which is on the edge of Wormwood Scrubs Park, is "very complex" because of the number of stakeholders involved.

"Whether that comes to fruition or not, I don't know," he said.

"It is not just up to us and there would be a lot of consultations that have to happen that we are trying to work on; it would have to be us, the council, local residents, the Ministry of Defence, Friends of Wormwood Scrubs and a charitable commission.

"Everybody needs to get their heads together and come up with something that benefits the community, takes the financial weight off the council and generates a sustainable football club."

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:26 pm

Lee Hoos probably needs to leave QPR

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:29 pm

There's only 2 reasons to move to a new ground.
Either your original ground is delapidated, ours isn't, or to increase capacity, we have no need of a larger capacity, and even if we did it's achievable by modernising a stand or 2 on our present footprint.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:29 pm

Its a small stadium. The views arent great. And its old. But I love Loftus Road. Full of character.

But with the competition they have closeby they will struggle with such a small ground.

Fortunately if we ever need to expand in any way we have plenty of space, especially behind the two newer stands.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:40 pm

The two newer stand are probably the ones that we should be pulling down and rebuilding to be fair.

They were off-the-shelf and cheap. Part of the reason why there’s been a hold up the latest developments. There is ample land behind the James Hargreaves Stand to build a brand new grand stand with purpose build mod cons.

That’s my opinion anyway.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:43 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:The two newer stand are probably the ones that we should be pulling down and rebuilding to be fair.

They were off-the-shelf and cheap. Part of the reason why there’s been a hold up the latest developments. There is ample land behind the James Hargreaves Stand to build a brand new grand stand with purpose build mod cons.

That’s my opinion anyway.

Given their attempts at the corners it'd probably take 5 seasons to finish and we'd have nowhere to park the TV fans to watch it at home.

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:54 pm

Gate money in the EFL is a far greater chunk of their income than ours.
He'd sing a different tune if they were promoted to the Prem.
Rank bad awful owners, managers, and poor decisions taken in the past have come back to haunt them.
Indebted, transfer embargo, FFP beach all point to an uncertain future.
Extra capacity will just mean more empty seats every home game.

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:56 pm

He has not learnt form our joint chairmen

Having got Walley in, surely his main worry is staying in the Champioship!

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:57 pm

Could they fill a 40,000-seater stadium outside of the Premier League,doubtful i'd guess,for a club of their size 30,000 seems a reasonable number,otherwise they could end up like Bolton and Coventry,who have sparkling new grounds but no bums on seats.

From a Clarets perspective we don't need a much larger capacity,25,000 will suffice,most of our revenue comes from TV as long as we remain in the top-flight,and if we dropped down crowds will be 16-17 thousand most games anyway.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:02 pm

Where would we move to? QPR are presumably thinking of moving to somewhere in London, population 8 million. Where would we go?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:12 pm

People love football London is very cosmoplitan ...those people need and want to to watch football the same as the local diehards rule out Spurs Arsenal and chelsea no chance theyll get a ticket Hoos is very forward thinking imo. Supply and Demand in London is very different to the rest of the Country. empty seats isnt in the thougt proscess.hes on a winner as are Palace.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:10 am

Where would QPR get the extra support from to justify a big ground?

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:46 am

"Wormwood Scrubs"

Surely that's where many of their old managers and owners should be?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45174188

The car dealership problem too

Lee Hoos ... Stealing a living.

Suratclaret · Post by **Suratclaret** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:22 am

I'm surprised it's not the other way round.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:47 am

I’ve never really understood the argument that we shouldn’t redevelop our ground because we don’t fill it every week.

We do fill the home ends numerous times a season. Alternatively we also see games where there are only single tickets left which might put people off buying them (families etc). There are also lots games of games where we could probably sell several thousand more away tickets with a larger away end. I’m not saying attendances would be huge, but I think we could get to 25k reasonably regularly.

Then there’s the argument about better fan facilities. The Turf is way behind most other top two tier stadiums on this. Even the “new” stands are tatty and show how cheaply they were thrown up.

We may not desperately need to redevelop, but hopefully we aren’t looking back in 10 years time with 4 stands in even further need of repair, but without the funds to do it.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:37 am

If you want to increase revenue then get your arse into the Prem.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:38 am

The day Burnley move to a breeze block stadium on an industrial estate is the day I pack in following the Clarets.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:50 am

agreenwood wrote:
We may not desperately need to redevelop, but hopefully we aren’t looking back in 10 years time with 4 stands in even further need of repair, but without the funds to do it.

Or we can be looking back in 10 years time in League Two wondering why we spent all our money on 4 stands that no one sits in anymore, instead on facilities that improve our performance or players.

It's a balancing act.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:06 am

QPR need to move if they want to redevelop their ground it's as simple as that. We on the other hand have space aplenty to redevelop Turf Moor which in my view is now getting to a stage where we need to do so.

This does not mean increasing the capacity by a substantial amount but it would in my view be sensible to do so by a few thousand. I would commission a feasibility study to see if we could stick another tier on top of the Bob Lord, this could be a temporary one, whilst we put a new stand up behind the Cricket Field goals. Then it is a question of what we do with the Bob Lord which as you approach from town looks a mess.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:12 am

fatboy47 wrote:If you want to increase revenue then get your arse into the Prem.

Totally correct and here's why

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44850888" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Burnley could build a 50k seater stadium and it still wouldn't make much difference to their turnover. It would be a pointless waste of money

Sutton-Claret · Post by **Sutton-Claret** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:30 am

I once bought a car from Cargiant about 5 years ago. I remember it to be a massive sh***hole in need of development.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:40 am

agreenwood wrote:I’ve never really understood the argument that we shouldn’t redevelop our ground because we don’t fill it every week.

We do fill the home ends numerous times a season. Alternatively we also see games where there are only single tickets left which might put people off buying them (families etc). There are also lots games of games where we could probably sell several thousand more away tickets with a larger away end. I’m not saying attendances would be huge, but I think we could get to 25k reasonably regularly.

Then there’s the argument about better fan facilities. The Turf is way behind most other top two tier stadiums on this. Even the “new” stands are tatty and show how cheaply they were thrown up.

We may not desperately need to redevelop, but hopefully we aren’t looking back in 10 years time with 4 stands in even further need of repair, but without the funds to do it.

Spot on. A mate of mine wants to go on against united wiyh 2 friends (not regular fans). There are a good few tickets left but none together. He might not bother because of that.

Granted they arent on every game but got to start somewhere.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:43 am

The Loft is a fantastic stadium because it’s stacked so high above the pitch. They simply can’t increase their stadium capacity further, so I understand why that would cause an issue.

I do agree with agreenwood about doing something whilst we have the funds. Even if, long term, we become a Championship club again, the funds are there to make improvements to the ground that will see us right for the next couple of decades. If they’re not, they certainly will be should we stay up again for another season or so. It’s a real financial balancing act between player recruitment v stadium / training ground (and look how good that it) development.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:45 am

deanothedino wrote:Or we can be looking back in 10 years time in League Two wondering why we spent all our money on 4 stands that no one sits in anymore, instead on facilities that improve our performance or players.

It's a balancing act.

That’s a pretty extreme scenario. We’re making healthy profits every year. Redeveloping a few stands won’t cripple the club.

If you take your logic to it’s natural conclusion, we’ll never do any redevelopment for fear of the ruin it might bring.

TheOriginalLongsider · Post by **TheOriginalLongsider** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:47 am

The land at loftus Road is worth much more than that at Turf Moor.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:51 am

I don't understand all the work we've been doing to the club shop and offices behind the Bob Lord. It makes no sense given that's the stand to develop. There's plenty of room to incorporate the offices and club shop into a stand that backs up to the turnstiles now. I guess the issue could be the properties across the road but it feels like we're patching up a stand that will ultimately be replaced in the coming years anyway. it doesn't appear to represent value for money, put it that way!

The same could be said for the disabled corners we're throwing up. Why not look at investing in a new stand that incorporates what we need to offer our disabled fans? I guess what I'm saying is it all seems a bit short sited from the club. Maybe we're frightened of the cost of a larger redevelopment without the guarantee of PL money. Relegation is always going to be a threat but it shouldn't hinder the ambition of the club to the extent that we choose to put square pegs in round holes rather than creating something that is fit for purpose and future proof.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:04 am

agreenwood wrote:That’s a pretty extreme scenario. We’re making healthy profits every year. Redeveloping a few stands won’t cripple the club.

If you take your logic to it’s natural conclusion, we’ll never do any redevelopment for fear of the ruin it might bring.

Not that extreme. What do you think redeveloping the whole ground will cost? It will be significant.

Plus, we've been there before where work on the ground has resulting in a decline on the pitch.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:05 am

Increasing capacity isnt really Burnley concern. Corporate Hospitality is a money spinner and Burnley’s is very, basic compared to all the clubs in the top 2 divisions.

Also, the space isn’t really utilised on non-matchdays. There’s no room for conferences, exhibitions, wedding receptions, concerts etc. Paul Fletcher was actually onto something with the bread-bin stand, it’s a shame the concept was ugly.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:11 am

agreenwood wrote:That’s a pretty extreme scenario. We’re making healthy profits every year. Redeveloping a few stands won’t cripple the club.

If you take your logic to it’s natural conclusion, we’ll never do any redevelopment for fear of the ruin it might bring.

spot on...
The secret of change is to focus all of your energy,not on fighting the old,but on building the new. Socrates

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:15 am

claptrappers_union wrote:Increasing capacity isnt really Burnley concern. Corporate Hospitality is a money spinner and Burnley’s is very, basic compared to all the clubs in the top 2 divisions.

Also, the space isn’t really utilised on non-matchdays. There’s no room for conferences, exhibitions, wedding receptions, concerts etc. Paul Fletcher was actually onto something with the bread-bin stand, it’s a shame the concept was ugly.

Concerts are a none-starter I think but the others are all valid. If they could have a venue suitable for the POTY awards all year round for hire I'd imagine it would be quite profitable.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:27 am

I can see it's a tough one for the club who have to run it as a business. Adding a couple of thousand extra seats for 3 or 4 games a season - and only while we're in the Prem - isn't going to raise anything like the revenue to justify what would be a huge outlay for the sort of stands and facilities you're likely imagining. We already know what a tricky site it is, just from trying to add a small corner stand.

And then the moment we're back in the Football League, the extra capacity and corporate areas are sitting empty. The last time for 33 years. As it is, the Bob Lord has the comfiest seats and best view in the ground, tons of history inside and the Cricket Field provides pretty much the entire match day atmosphere.

I'll agree the other two stands are pretty basic but they're the right size and do the job. When we've won I can't say I come away muttering about how the 'please open door slowly' sign has ruined my day. It's just a seat in the dry where I can watch Burnley from.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:32 am

It's all about corporate seats though now as much as anything.

Burnley have added some more into the Bob Lord this season with the extension of the directors box. That is still very limited at the Turf and sells out.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:35 am

NottsClaret wrote:I can see it's a tough one for the club who have to run it as a business. Adding a couple of thousand extra seats for 3 or 4 games a season - and only while we're in the Prem - isn't going to raise anything like the revenue to justify what would be a huge outlay for the sort of stands and facilities you're likely imagining. We already know what a tricky site it is, just from trying to add a small corner stand.

And then the moment we're back in the Football League, the extra capacity and corporate areas are sitting empty. The last time for 33 years. As it is, the Bob Lord has the comfiest seats and best view in the ground, tons of history inside and the Cricket Field provides pretty much the entire match day atmosphere.

I'll agree the other two stands are pretty basic but they're the right size and do the job. When we've won I can't say I come away muttering about how the 'please open door slowly' sign has ruined my day. It's just a seat in the dry where I can watch Burnley from.

not all supporters sit in the dry at turf moor though do they.....

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:37 am

Surely the Cricket Field stand is the one to develop first, and to be honest I'd wait to see what happens with safe standing.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:56 am

Turf Moor is rarely full, even in the PL. You can go back as far as you like and look at the attendance figures. I'm making a calculated guess here but I have been a supporter for over 50 years so I have an idea. I believe that Burnley's basic fan base is around 19k when we are in the top flight, that's not including passing support for big games (United/City/etc.). We could make the extra room we MIGHT need by filling in the corners (I know we have that planned but that will only marginally increase capacity due to the reasons for it). We could do the same with the other two corners and make them normal seating, if this only increased capacity by a couple of thousand it would be as much as we need. What we don't need is a white elephant like they have at Rovers, a ground I don't believe they have ever filled even when they won the PL and getting visits off United etc. Demanding ground capacities that aren't needed is symptomatic of the general problem with football these days that bigger is better when in our case it is clearly not needed. There is nothing worse in football than having a ground that is virtually empty on match days and that could happen one day, it has before.

By the way filling in the corners could help improve the atmosphere that disappeared the day they knocked down the Longside (how about bringing back standing anyway, you can get more people in stood up).

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:56 am

deanothedino wrote:Concerts are a none-starter I think but the others are all valid. If they could have a venue suitable for the POTY awards all year round for hire I'd imagine it would be quite profitable.

When I mean concerts, I mean live events. Where you can hold a few hundred people, a staging area, permanent lighting rigs and so on. I don’t mean hosting U2 or other stadium bands.

I’ve watched an MMA event inside the Reebok Stadium. It was basically a massive space behind the concourses. Burnley can’t offer that.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:16 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Surely the Cricket Field stand is the one to develop first, and to be honest I'd wait to see what happens with safe standing.

Back off we that one.

A football ground needs cheaper areas and no club in their right mind would develop a stand at huge cost to keep prices the same.

It's been done to death on here but the only reason to develop the ground is to get better viewing seats that sell or corporate. The 2nd tier on the Bob Lord ticks both boxes.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:34 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The day Burnley move to a breeze block stadium on an industrial estate is the day I pack in following the Clarets.

You can't be much of a Burnley fan then

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:15 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The day Burnley move to a breeze block stadium on an industrial estate is the day I pack in following the Clarets.

I dunno,

If Burnley 'did a Wimbledon' and moved down the A1, then I might get to more home games.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:15 pm

So funny and ironic that this is Lee Hoos now spouting off, the very same Lee Hoos that left us for the lure of the bright lights and the untapped potential that was QPR.

The fact is he'll never make QPR into a sustainable football club no matter where they play in London. Moving 12 miles or so is no guarantee that suddenly they will be an attractive proposition to an additional 15 thousand fans compared to the 12 thousand that currently attend. Even with a new stadium that is suitable to generate other revenue streams any attempt to make them a sustainable business will not succeed.

He made his bed with Fernandes, who now accepts that his days at QPR are numbered, and between them they know that only the highly unlikely event of promotion will make them into a profitable business. At least QPR fans can be grateful that Hoos did not inflict the famous retainer on them.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:20 pm

His spreadsheet has an answer to every question, unfortunately all the figures are made up.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:25 pm

It should be QPR tells this chancer to leave Loftus Road
Why does anyone employ this snake oil salesman?

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:29 pm

In principal the retainer was a good idea.

The season tickets go up about £100 after the discount period, so they should have put them up to the same level as normal but offered fans a discount of £50 off the next years ticket if they renewed but he got greedy and priced people out of the equation.

Deals don't work in the long term, you just have to look at Ewood and Wigan for that.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:34 pm

I'm (genuinely) currently undergoing a big home extension project. I've put it off for over 10 years by wondering if it was necessary before deciding it was. Now we are doing it for probably double what it would have cost. Delaying it was financially a big mistake.

It's the same for Burnley FC.

It is so easy to get complacent as a small to medium sized business owner, by taking customers for granted. Eventually, when push comes to shove, all these businesses need their customers. As each year goes by, and the facilities get worse and worse (unless you are a corporate or disabled), the chances of keeping those customers goes down. If they then react late and try to build something, it will be more expensive than it would have been. Same with QPR (but don't relocate and lose your identity).

I've already posted this week about Dyche starting to lose our loyalty if he doesn't (for now) take the Europa League very seriously. It's the same with the Board and the facilities, just a tad more long term. Both Dyche and the Board have done fantastically well, but if they take their customers for granted it will begin the decline. Sadly in both instances I can foresee it coming.

Let's at least have a strategy for facilities replacement communicated to the fans, even if it is 10 years ahead and subject to being in the premier league x years out of 10. Absence of this communication makes one suspicious of whether any intent is there.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:12 pm

might not bother younger fans in Burnley to face a move elsewhere someday, but for me it could only ever be the Turf.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:15 pm

KRBFC wrote:You can't be much of a Burnley fan then

You got me there.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:17 pm

Sutton-Claret wrote:I once bought a car from Cargiant about 5 years ago. I remember it to be a massive sh***hole in need of development.

You should have bought a different car.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:28 pm

QPR average attendance last season: 13,928
Lowest: 11,488
Highest: 16,934
Capacity: 18,439

In their unsuccessful Premier League, 2012/13 they averaged 17,779.

Arsenal, Spurs (I guess) and West Ham had/have the potential to fill their new grounds. Do QPR?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:30 pm

Yes...

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:45 pm

Hipper wrote:QPR average attendance last season: 13,928
Lowest: 11,488
Highest: 16,934
Capacity: 18,439

In their unsuccessful Premier League, 2012/13 they averaged 17,779.

Arsenal, Spurs (I guess) and West Ham had/have the potential to fill their new grounds. Do QPR?

A new stadium worked for Brighton, for some reason.