Playing out from the back

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# 1
cricketfieldclarets
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Playing out from the back

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:47 pm

What is the obsession with this? Faffing about with it in the most dangerous part of the field and putting your team under unnecesary pressure.

Arsenal are trying it under this new manager and its clear Cechs not comfortable doing it. And no wonder. Hes a 6 foot 5 keeper.

Suppose this obsession was our gain getting Hart in so cheap. Speaking to a city fan today he said Hart is a far better keeper than Ederson. Just not as good with his feet. Said if Pep wasnt there all city fans would have him back tomorrow.
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# 2
fidelcastro
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby fidelcastro » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:49 pm

To an extent we did it under Eddie Howe.

I wonder why we conceded so many goals? ;)

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FactualFrank
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby FactualFrank » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:50 pm

I'd be interested to know what the stats are of losing possession when the keeper just hoofs the ball upfield, vs playing it out from the back. The managers will surely know that and have perhaps come to the conclusion that they have more chance of keeping the ball if they play it out, as opposed to lambasting it upfield.

Bumping it upfield must be close to 50%? I doubt a team like City, or Arsenal lose possession more than 50% of the time by passing it out.

For weaker teams, that won't be the case.

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TheFamilyCat
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby TheFamilyCat » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:55 pm

I hope they're still doing it when we play them. Cech will be even more uncomfortable trying to play football with Ashley Barnes charging at him.
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Rileybobs
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Rileybobs » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:00 pm

It’s pretty difficult and foolish to do when your opponents are better than you. As is the case in tonight’s game.

# 6
chekhov
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby chekhov » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:22 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I'd be interested to know what the stats are of losing possession when the keeper just hoofs the ball upfield, vs playing it out from the back. The managers will surely know that and have perhaps come to the conclusion that they have more chance of keeping the ball if they play it out, as opposed to lambasting it upfield.

Bumping it upfield must be close to 50%? I doubt a team like City, or Arsenal lose possession more than 50% of the time by passing it out.

For weaker teams, that won't be the case.

Thing is when you lose possession faffing about close to your own goal there's a greater chance of conceding.

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Quickenthetempo
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Quickenthetempo » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:22 pm

The two benefits are you keep possession and then draw the other team out of position.

Burnley for instance drop back in very deep with bodies covering all opposition players. When they play out from the back a few players will break ranks.

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chekhov
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby chekhov » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:24 pm

I agree there does seem to be an obsession with it just now. Even Derby were doing it the other week.
Ridiculous.

# 9
tiger76
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby tiger76 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:30 pm

England did this at the World Cup,nearly got caught out,the problem is everyone's trying to imitate Man City and Barcelona.

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KefkaClaret
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby KefkaClaret » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:32 pm

If you do it well passing it out from the back leads you to keep posession and tire out teams if they continually press. I completely understand why the best of the best would do it.

# 11
FactualFrank
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby FactualFrank » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:36 pm

These clubs have statisticians. They have people behind the scenes with their spreadsheets and will know if passing it out from the back is worth it. They'll know this stuff.

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KRBFC
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby KRBFC » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:57 pm

Pep started it, everybody wants to be Pep and it's just not possible. It's phenomenal to watch it done properly by a Pep side, the obsession by the rest to try and copy is strange though. As for Hart being a better goalkeeper than Ederson :lol: :lol: :lol:

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:Pep started it, everybody wants to be Pep and it's just not possible. It's phenomenal to watch it done properly by a Pep side, the obsession by the rest to try and copy is strange though. As for Hart being a better goalkeeper than Ederson :lol: :lol: :lol:


No he didn't, but you're only young so you wouldn't know that.

Cruyff taught Pep.

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FactualFrank
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby FactualFrank » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:04 pm

KRBFC wrote:Pep started it, everybody wants to be Pep and it's just not possible. It's phenomenal to watch it done properly by a Pep side, the obsession by the rest to try and copy is strange though. As for Hart being a better goalkeeper than Ederson :lol: :lol: :lol:


I think you've just broken the UptheClarets record for being wrong the most times in a single post.

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KRBFC
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby KRBFC » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:04 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:No he didn't, but you're only young so you wouldn't know that.

Cruyff taught Pep.

Cruyff inspired Pep, Pep is a teacher. I'm not sure why you're trying to be patronising with age but fine, you are so old you probably forgot.

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KRBFC
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby KRBFC » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:05 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I think you've just broken the UptheClarets record for being wrong the most times in a single post.

Go attention seek with another topic, i'm depressed from reading your posts.

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FactualFrank
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby FactualFrank » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:10 pm

KRBFC wrote:Go attention seek with another topic, i'm depressed from reading your posts.


Then please add me to your 'ignore list'. You're on mine, but I sometimes have to click the 'Display this post', to see what the latest incorrect thing you've posted. Post less - watch more.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:10 pm

KRBFC wrote:Cruyff inspired Pep, Pep is a teacher. I'm not sure why you're trying to be patronising with age but fine, you are so old you probably forgot.


I'm not being patronising yet, you were just mistaken in your claim that Pep started it, when us older folk will know he didn't.

Pep was taught by Cruyff, he would tell you that himself.
Cruyff was responsible for how Barcelona coached/educated it's youth players and Pep was one of those players.
Pep learnt from the best, constantly spoke to Cruyff when he was alive and sought his guidance /advice etc.

Have a read of the below interview, it's very good.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... yff-unique

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KRBFC
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby KRBFC » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:14 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'm not being patronising yet, you were just mistaken in your claim that Pep started it, when us older folk will know he didn't.

Pep was taught by Cruyff, he would tell you that himself.
Cruyff was responsible for how Barcelona coached/educated it's youth players and Pep was one of those players.
Pep learnt from the best, constantly spoke to Cruyff when he was alive and sought his guidance /advice etc.

Have a read of the below interview, it's very good.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... yff-unique

I've already seen it, Cruyff was his mentor from a young age, while he obviously taught him things, Pep will have learnt things from different people along the way. You made it sound like he simply copy and pasted Cruyff which isn't the case, I don't think you can even really compare football from the 1980's to now, it seems a different game to me.

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KRBFC
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby KRBFC » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:15 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Then please add me to your 'ignore list'. You're on mine, but I sometimes have to click the 'Display this post', to see what the latest incorrect thing you've posted. Post less - watch more.

Cry less, sleep more. A lack of sleep can cause serious health problems and depression.

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FactualFrank
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby FactualFrank » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:20 pm

KRBFC wrote:Cry less, sleep more. A lack of sleep can cause serious health problems and depression.


I guess you can't argue with experience. But really; you can't be out of high school. No chance.

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:I've already seen it, Cruyff was his mentor from a young age, while he obviously taught him things, Pep will have learnt things from different people along the way. You made it sound like he simply copy and pasted Cruyff which isn't the case, I don't think you can even really compare football from the 1980's to now, it seems a different game to me.


I never said he copied and pasted anything, I just said he wasn't the first to get his team's to play from the back.

He took a pre-existing idea and refined it for the modern era, including adding some of his own ideas and it works brillianty.

You've already changed your opinion from Cruyff inspiring Pep to what you've just written.

I'm not going to dick about all-night going back and forth over it seeing as you've changed your story already.

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Tall Paul
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Tall Paul » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:25 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I hope they're still doing it when we play them. Cech will be even more uncomfortable trying to play football with Ashley Barnes charging at him.


Cech will have been dropped for the new bloke by then.

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Bin Ont Turf
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Bin Ont Turf » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:28 pm

I understand why it's done, but it bores the shite out of me.

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boatshed bill
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby boatshed bill » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:54 pm

There's absolutely nothing new about playing out from the back, the newer element is the "sweeper-keeper" which requires ball playing skills from the goalie. I still think it's a risky game for most PL teams.

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piston broke
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby piston broke » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:13 pm

A board of kids. Jimmy Adamson had Stevo rolling it out to Mick Doc and Keith Newton in 73-74. They gave it to Dobo or Doug Collins and we were off.
Thinking back probably Uwe at RB. Mick Doc broke his leg.
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Bin Ont Turf
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Bin Ont Turf » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:34 pm

piston broke wrote:A board of kids. Jimmy Adamson had Stevo rolling it out to Mick Doc and Keith Newton in 73-74. They gave it to Dobo or Doug Collins and we were off.
Thinking back probably Uwe at RB. Mick Doc broke his leg.



No way was that the same. Not a chance of it.

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boatshed bill
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby boatshed bill » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:35 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:No way was that the same. Not a chance of it.


Not exactly, but the concept of building from the back is not new.

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Bin Ont Turf
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Bin Ont Turf » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:40 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Not exactly, but the concept of building from the back is not new.


I very much agree, it's not new.

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KRBFC
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby KRBFC » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:55 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I never said he copied and pasted anything, I just said he wasn't the first to get his team's to play from the back.

He took a pre-existing idea and refined it for the modern era, including adding some of his own ideas and it works brillianty.

You've already changed your opinion from Cruyff inspiring Pep to what you've just written.

I'm not going to dick about all-night going back and forth over it seeing as you've changed your story already.

I'm almost sure I told you about Cruyff and Pep months ago and sent you an article, not sure why you're taking what I said and spinning into something it's not to argue a pointless thing. Cruyff's Barca wasn't the same as Pep's Barca, two different styles in different eras, of course Pep wasn't the first to build from the back but he was the first to modernise and tweak it into something never seen before.

# 31
Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:17 pm

Johan and Eddie. Both ahead of their time.

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CharlieinNewMexico
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby CharlieinNewMexico » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:23 am

Morris Dancers 1984. Used to play it out from the back because my kicking would end up slicing down the hill into Colne. Everyone would push up, their team would go all the way back to their half, then at the last minute our 2 full backs would drop to the edge of the 18 and receive it. Ahead of our time!

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Woodleyclaret
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Re: Playing out from the back

Postby Woodleyclaret » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:56 am

Playing across the back and giving the opposition time to cover and win possession is a nightmare tactic.
Its not about ball retention .Football is a simple game.The team that gets the most goals wins.
Attack quickly,pass and move press .Its the way to win


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