The Police

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Stayingup
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The Police

Post by Stayingup » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:05 am

It would seem that the public has lost a lot of confidence in the police now in this country and no wonder.

They are to do away with the 'technical allowance' (10% + 2 mph) for speeding and prosecute drivers for going 1 mph over the limit. This, whilst burgalries, knife and drug crime, shop lifting, anti- social behaviour are not tackled with much zest. Some crimes even ignored even dangerous driving and tail gaiting. They apperar to pay more attention to hate crimes and like of Cliff Richard !!!

This new proposal may even cause accidents as drivers will be acrefully looking at their speed and paying less attention to te road. In fact its doubtful that speedometers ane even police police speed measuring equipment is accurate to 1 mph.

Driving at 1 mph above the limit surely isnt dangerous and in fact most drivers drive at speeds appropriate to the road conditions at the time and keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front.

This an absolute nonesense and demonstrates why much of the oublic has lost confidence in the oh so PC police of today. Also it proves to me that speeding fines are a massive cash cow them.
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The Enclosure
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Re: The Police

Post by The Enclosure » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:06 am

Hard to disagree with that.

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Re: The Police

Post by evensteadiereddie » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:10 am

Blimey, Stayingup, very nearly a full house there....
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NottsClaret
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Re: The Police

Post by NottsClaret » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:10 am

Just pretend the limit is 27, then you've got your 10% allowance still. All good, yeah?
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Spijed
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Re: The Police

Post by Spijed » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:12 am

Stayingup wrote:in fact most drivers drive at speeds appropriate to the road conditions at the time and keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front.
If that's the case why are there long queues on motorways etc.?

It's because drivers DON'T keep a safe distance and have to break sharply when the vehicle in front does so.

HollandsPies
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Re: The Police

Post by HollandsPies » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:21 am

Surely it's the Government who sets the zero tolerance for speeding rule and the cops just implement it?

Jel
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Re: The Police

Post by Jel » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:24 am

Spijed wrote:If that's the case why are there long queues on motorways etc.?

It's because drivers DON'T keep a safe distance and have to break sharply when the vehicle in front does so.
Wagons overtaking wagons at the same speed as the one next to them, people hogging the middle (and outside) lanes, others driving under the speed limit....
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LoveCurryPies
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Re: The Police

Post by LoveCurryPies » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:27 am

A few weeks ago, I witnessed 2 cars drive down the lane to my house, U turn. The occupants jumped out and started changing the number plates. They were organised and didn't panic even when they saw me phoning the Police. There were 6 youths, including a female driver.

I only live 2 minutes from a service station on the A1 and there is usually a Police car in there or on the motorway nearby. I must admit I did expect 2 or 3 Police cars to arrive within minutes. All I was told was "We will put it on the system".

To date, I have not been contacted for further information (I photographed the tyre skid marks and recovered a number plate) or to say they did anything. I'm not sure I would bother to make the call next time.

ClaretDiver
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Re: The Police

Post by ClaretDiver » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:33 am

Why should there be a 'technical allowance'? Makes no sense......

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Re: The Police

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:34 am

Roxanne
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Re: The Police

Post by TonbridgeClaret » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:39 am

I’ve done two speed awareness courses, just over three years apart. One of the first things you are told is that there is no 10%, or indeed any other type of allowance. The speed limit is exactly that, a limit.
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Devils_Advocate
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Re: The Police

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:41 am

ClaretDiver wrote:Why should there be a 'technical allowance'? Makes no sense......
Im guessing its to do with the accuracy of speedometers and depending on the angle you look at it from it can look slightly faster/slower

The issues for me is that some of the speed limits we set seem over zealous. 70mph on a quiet motorway in good conditions is way to low. Get the speed limits right and its much more likely it will be just the dangerous idiot drivers who are speeding for which they will be a lot more general support for speed cameras and traffic officers

Chobulous
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Re: The Police

Post by Chobulous » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:41 am

Making it harder for you to break the law. Bastards

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Re: The Police

Post by keith1879 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:42 am

Stayingup wrote:It would seem that the public has lost a lot of confidence in the police now in this country and no wonder.

They are to do away with the 'technical allowance' (10% + 2 mph) for speeding and prosecute drivers for going 1 mph over the limit. This, whilst burgalries, knife and drug crime, shop lifting, anti- social behaviour are not tackled with much zest. Some crimes even ignored even dangerous driving and tail gaiting. They apperar to pay more attention to hate crimes and like of Cliff Richard !!!

This new proposal may even cause accidents as drivers will be acrefully looking at their speed and paying less attention to te road. In fact its doubtful that speedometers ane even police police speed measuring equipment is accurate to 1 mph.

Driving at 1 mph above the limit surely isnt dangerous and in fact most drivers drive at speeds appropriate to the road conditions at the time and keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front.

This an absolute nonesense and demonstrates why much of the oublic has lost confidence in the oh so PC police of today. Also it proves to me that speeding fines are a massive cash cow them.
I can't find anything in this post that is logical or factual. Other than that .....top marks.

FactualFrank
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Re: The Police

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:44 am

A lot of speedometers in cars will show you going faster than you actually are. If the speedometer says 30, you'll be physically driving at around 28.

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Re: The Police

Post by deanothedino » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:48 am

Stayingup wrote:They are to do away with the 'technical allowance' (10% + 2 mph) for speeding and prosecute drivers for going 1 mph over the limit..
It was never a 'technical allowance' it is a guideline for prosecution and circumstances can change whether the guideline is followed or not. It also varies by constabulary. For example, Lancs actually implement +10% +3mph and according to a FOI request in the last two years they haven't enforced against anyone doing less than that. Obviously that may have changed by now.

Also, the police don't get the money from speeding fines. If they did, they'd also be issuing FPNs for everyone who's drunk in town on the weekend.

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Re: The Police

Post by Pimlico_Claret » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:50 am

I've rung the 101 non emergency number three times to report a car being driven around Clitheroe exceptionally fast over a period of the last month, at least 60 in 20 zones. It's uninsured and untaxed. Its still on the road. I asked why they can't turn up at the owners address to sort it out only to be told it has to be seen being driven.
Suggested if I threw a brick through the windscreen on the owners drive, they would turn up then.
Yes sir, she said, because you would have committed a crime. Oh, unlike speeding in an uninsured and untaxed car?? You couldn't make it up sometimes.
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bedfords
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Re: The Police

Post by bedfords » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:52 am

Good to hear. 30 means 30.....

nil_desperandum
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Re: The Police

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:52 am

Can someone find a link that says that the OP's 2nd sentence is correct?
I can't find one. (Fair enough if there is one).
[He actually contradicts it later in the post.]

Stayingup
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Re: The Police

Post by Stayingup » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:04 am

Spijed wrote:If that's the case why are there long queues on motorways etc.?

It's because drivers DON'T keep a safe distance and have to break sharply when the vehicle in front does so.
I did say MOST drivers. To be fair I do a lot of motorway driving and you have a point,. But the there are other reasons for jams. Weight of traffic and BAD and Dangerous driving - which mostly goes unpunished and I think smart motorways which often change speed limits one one section are a cause road
Last edited by Stayingup on Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Stayingup
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Re: The Police

Post by Stayingup » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:06 am

keith1879 wrote:I can't find anything in this post that is logical or factual. Other than that .....top marks.
Perhaps then you should read what the police have said about ths matter. 1 mph over the speed limit you will be fined for speeding. How much more factual do you want?

CoolClaret
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Re: The Police

Post by CoolClaret » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:09 am

Message in a bottle?

Millertime v1.7
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Re: The Police

Post by Millertime v1.7 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:09 am

Mate listen, it sets a dangerous prescitent. As human beings the LEAST we cam ask for is consistancy from regional forces across the land.

FactualFrank
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Re: The Police

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:10 am

Millions of motorists may face the penalties if police chiefs adopt the zero-tolerance move:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10053 ... peed-limit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nil_desperandum
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Re: The Police

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:11 am

Stayingup wrote:Perhaps then you should read what the police have said about ths matter. 1 mph over the speed limit you will be fined for speeding. How much more factual do you want?
I can only find that it's a proposal.
If it's more than that (i.e. a fact] - I can't find a link.

Stayingup
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Re: The Police

Post by Stayingup » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:13 am

[quote="TonbridgeClaret"]I’ve done two speed awareness courses, just over three years apart. One of the first things you are told is that there is no 10%, or indeed any other type of allowance. The speed limit is exactly that, a limit.[/quoYou should have read the article I did. the police themselcves impose 'Technical limits' But they adjust them at times. I suppose depending on their cash balance at the time. I have got this information also from an office of the law.

Stayingup
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Re: The Police

Post by Stayingup » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:14 am

You should have read the article I did. the police themselcves impose 'Technical limits' But they adjust them at times. I suppose depending on their cash balance at the time. I have got this information also from an office of the law.

Stayingup
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Re: The Police

Post by Stayingup » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:16 am

FactualFrank wrote:Millions of motorists may face the penalties if police chiefs adopt the zero-tolerance move:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10053 ... peed-limit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Exactly. Now we ALL know what a Technical Allownace is.

But I am surprised no-one has commented on police priorities.

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Re: The Police

Post by JarrowClaret » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:16 am

On Motorways and some Dual Carriageways I understand the technical allowance being used or even an increase in the limit if the road conditions allow it. I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone should think that in built up areas where children and old people could be crossing the road why we should tolerate someone doing even 1 MPH over the legal limit. Even doing 20 can seriously injure someone. Most of the Police do a fine job in extremely trying conditions I haven’t lost confidence in them I appreciate that they can’t be everywhere and they have rules that they have too follow even when we may not understand why.
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bedfords
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Re: The Police

Post by bedfords » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:23 am

Even the most simplistic rules need to be challenged and argued by the mentally stunted. It really isn't a complicated situation.

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Re: The Police

Post by Lord Beamish » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:27 am

I think it’s quite obvious that the OP has just received(probably yet another) speeding ticket and is desperately scrabbling about trying to blame everybody but himself.
I’m at a Speed Awareness course at the Dunkenhalgh next month. I got caught doing 46 in a 40 zone a few Saturdays ago. I was in a bit of a hurry, but I was bang to rights. It was my fault; I will take my medicine.
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Guich
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Re: The Police

Post by Guich » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:35 am

I don't have a problem with this as it's just as irritating being done doing 65 in a 60 limit as it would be doing 61.

In France on the Autoroutes the limit is 130kph (about 80mph) in good weather 110kph when it's raining. It's far to much to hope that we may have sensible limits like that over here though.

Anyhow, I think by far the biggest dangers on the road are drivers not leaving enough distance and idiots on mobile phones.

And Tony's right with Roxanne btw.

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Re: The Police

Post by dsr » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:38 am

The "technical allowance" was because of the impossibility of proving that the speed measuring system was accurate with zero tolerance of error. If they can only prove that it's accurate to 10%, say, they can't prosecute when it measures 32.9 mph in a 30 zone.

There's no doubt that driving at 31 mph in a 30 zone is a criminal offence. The only question is, is it a fair and reasonable penalty to get 3 points on your licence - the same penalty as for driving at 50 past a school on a wet winter morning? I suppose it depends whether speeding is to be taken as an absolute offence with no shades of grey, or whether you consider road conditions make a difference to the seriousness of the crime.

I'm sure, if the police agree that even 1 mph over the limit is dangerous in all circumstances, that they will agree to have tachographs fitted to all police cars. Then any police driver who goes over the limit by 1 mph at any time (when not on a blue light call) can collect 3 points, and if he gets 12 he will be taken off the road. I wonder how keen they would be on zero tolerance then?
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TurfyMoore
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Re: The Police

Post by TurfyMoore » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:40 am

Many side streets are now 20 mph, and many drivers either dont realise this or choose to ignore this and still travel at 30 mph.
Unfortunately I do believe the aim is to position the cameras on 30 mph roads to catch 10 drivers doing 1 mph over the limit, rather than 1 driver doing 10 mph over the limit.

bedfords
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Re: The Police

Post by bedfords » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:42 am

So grown up.

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Re: The Police

Post by deanothedino » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:46 am

Stayingup wrote:You should have read the article I did. the police themselcves impose 'Technical limits' But they adjust them at times. I suppose depending on their cash balance at the time. I have got this information also from an office of the law.
No, they have prosecution guidelines that are laid out by the NPCC. These can then be used or not be individual forces. Again, the police do not get the revenue from any disposal methods they use. Be that speeding fines, fixed penalties etc etc.

Your source needs realigning to police policy.
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lesxdp
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Re: The Police

Post by lesxdp » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:50 am

TonbridgeClaret wrote:I’ve done two speed awareness courses, just over three years apart. One of the first things you are told is that there is no 10%, or indeed any other type of allowance. The speed limit is exactly that, a limit.
Guess they don't, t work then. They didn't, t for me either. :D

Pstotto
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Re: The Police

Post by Pstotto » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:03 am

If you go to the New Scotland Yard website, it's all about 'ring us up if you're black lesbian and gay or transgender if you've had any trouble. The left-wing politicians have taken over.

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Re: The Police

Post by Top Claret » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:48 am

You have more chance of finding rocking horse **** than a copper these days

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Re: The Police

Post by TsarBomba » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:51 am

Pstotto wrote:If you go to the New Scotland Yard website, it's all about 'ring us up if you're black lesbian and gay or transgender if you've had any trouble. The left-wing politicians have taken over.
Garbage, as per usual.

I’m in the Met, and I have been a Police officer for 11 years.

I have never once been told to prioritise one crime over the next, and I never will be. The calls come in, and are graded based on a number of factors. If a suspect is on scene, and the offence is taking place right now, it will usually be an ‘immediate’ grade. If suspects have left, or the offence occurred some time before the call was made, then its normally an ‘s’ grade, which means we have to be there within the hour.
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Re: The Police

Post by Pstotto » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:07 pm

I can only go off what I saw on the website, when I looked last year. I've just checked again and they've changed the site. It's not garbage, it's what I saw.These things change daily. Note to self, I'll check first and provide a link then there will be no argument, although a link could change daily.

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Re: The Police

Post by TsarBomba » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:10 pm

Top Claret wrote:You have more chance of finding rocking horse **** than a copper these days
You’re not wrong, but that’s not the fault of the officers on duty.

Certainly in the Met, Safer Neighbourhood Teams are non-existent compared to say 5 years ago, and response teams are stretched to breaking point to deal with the rise in violent crime.

I work in a London Borough with a population of 250 thousand people. In recent months, I have been the only unit available to take a 999 call. Me. That’s it. If there’s a stabbing, which are now almost a daily occurrence, that can easily consume half the team. Crime scenes, victim to hospital, arrest of suspect, neighbour enquiries etc.

The service we now provide to victims of crime is ****, but that’s what happens when you cut resources to the extent they have been. It’s shameful, but it’s not the fault of those in uniform on the street who are trying to hold back the tide, who are generally being assaulted, spat at, abused, finishing late, and not having meal breaks.
Last edited by TsarBomba on Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Police

Post by Brunlea » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:13 pm

I don’t agree speeding is a criminal offence it’s a road traffic offence.
Speeding is speeding we all know the rules and in order not to part with my hard earned I try not too - but 34 in a 30 got me a speed awareness day!
The police have not covered themselves in glory on many occasions but in the interest of balance :
They interact with the public thousands upon thousands of times a day probably unlike any other public service ( NHS excluded) and the majority of these are positive.
They do catch and prosecute burglars and other criminals
Sometimes they recover stolen property.
Sometimes the run in the direction of danger.
Sometimes the get positive publicity.
They get a harder time now in the press than estate agents ever had presumably as a result of them investigating journalists for illegally eavesdropping and not being as willing/able to disclose sensitive information.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: The Police

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:14 pm

ClaretDiver wrote:Why should there be a 'technical allowance'? Makes no sense......
Speedos aren't 100% accurate, especially the older cable drive ones.

Electrical are better but if you have a satnav that shows your speed it's usually different to what your car will be saying.
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Re: The Police

Post by Pimlico_Claret » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:25 pm

TsarBomba wrote:You’re not wrong, but that’s not the fault of the officers on duty.

Certainly in the Met, Safer Neighbourhood Teams are non-existent compared to say 5 years ago, and response teams are stretched to breaking point to deal with the rise in violent crime.

I work in a London Borough with a population of 250 thousand people. In recent months, I have been the only unit available to take a 999 call. Me. That’s it. If there’s a stabbing, which are now almost a daily occurrence, that can easily consume half the team. Crime scenes, victim to hospital, arrest of suspect, neighbour enquiries etc.

The service we now provide to victims of crime is ****, but that’s what happens when you cut resources to the extent they have been. It’s shameful, but it’s not the fault of those in uniform on the street who are trying to hold back the tide, who are generally being assaulted, spat at, abused, finishing late, and not having meal breaks.
Coming from a family of ex coppers I fully understand your frustration. I just wish your bosses were more vocal in complaining that they simply can't do the job expected on the resources given (see also NHS, prisons, schools.....)

BurningBeard
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Re: The Police

Post by BurningBeard » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:40 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Roxanne
You don't have to put on the red light. Or the blue flashing ones either...
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keith1879
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Re: The Police

Post by keith1879 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:45 pm

Stayingup wrote:Perhaps then you should read what the police have said about ths matter. 1 mph over the speed limit you will be fined for speeding. How much more factual do you want?
See post 25.

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Re: The Police

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:46 pm

Brunlea wrote:I don’t agree speeding is a criminal offence it’s a road traffic offence.
It is a criminal offence.

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Re: The Police

Post by Somethingfishy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:47 pm

dsr wrote:The "technical allowance" was because of the impossibility of proving that the speed measuring system was accurate with zero tolerance of error. If they can only prove that it's accurate to 10%, say, they can't prosecute when it measures 32.9 mph in a 30 zone.

There's no doubt that driving at 31 mph in a 30 zone is a criminal offence. The only question is, is it a fair and reasonable penalty to get 3 points on your licence - the same penalty as for driving at 50 past a school on a wet winter morning? I suppose it depends whether speeding is to be taken as an absolute offence with no shades of grey, or whether you consider road conditions make a difference to the seriousness of the crime.

I'm sure, if the police agree that even 1 mph over the limit is dangerous in all circumstances, that they will agree to have tachographs fitted to all police cars. Then any police driver who goes over the limit by 1 mph at any time (when not on a blue light call) can collect 3 points, and if he gets 12 he will be taken off the road. I wonder how keen they would be on zero tolerance then?
I was on the M65 a few days ago near J4..just as you come up the hill at Guide..doing a steady 70 up the hill and a Police car zoomed past me doing about 90mph at a guess..he moved away at quite some pace anyway. No blue lights. Hardly setting an example. Double standards.

aggi
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Re: The Police

Post by aggi » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:50 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Speedos aren't 100% accurate, especially the older cable drive ones.

Electrical are better but if you have a satnav that shows your speed it's usually different to what your car will be saying.
They're not, but the standards say they have to report a higher speed if inaccurate, not lower.

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