Ref nobbled at HT??

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Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by CaptJohn » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:25 am

The ref had a decent 1st half and stood up to the normal Gleek hysterics. However I reckon he was got at at half time and in the 2nd half couldn't wait to get the Gleeks on his side. Cue soft free kicks, even softer yellow cards, soft penalty and an absolutely diabolical red card.
He had the backbone of a jellyfish :x
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by simonclaret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:29 am

There certainly appeared to be an inconsistency in his performance between the halves, SD commented that the home side waiting for him in the tunnel.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:39 am

Cowardly

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by RocketLawnChair » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:42 am

Give Over. We lost because we constantly gave the ball away. Nothing to do with the ref.
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:42 am

Wait to see who Greece vote for in the next Eurovision Song Contest.
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Pstotto » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:47 am

Dyche said this on the BBC website. I read George Best's autobiography once and he regaled such stories at United in the years before they won the European Cup. He also said that the wall had to be further back for the their first goal. However, they should have been a bit more sharp to the situation, if I'd been a Burnley player maybe I would have gone over to the ref in the tunnel and told the ref not to listen to them. The ref didn't stop a Burnley player going on the line to stop the first goal. That's basics, I would have thought. Let's hope everyone is really intimidating, regarding the atmosphere next week at home.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by claretspice » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:51 am

I'm sure they did get at the ref at half time, and it might have affected a couple of decisions early in the second half, particularly the decision to give Gibson a second yellow.

However, the foul from which Gibson got his first yellow, and we went behind, was a nailed on free kick and yellow card, and I don't think we can have too many complaints at the award of the penalty in itself, either. So we'd have been 3-1 down regardless.

Truth is that we took a risk with our team selection last night, played a novice centre back pairing with a goalkeeper who isn't especially familiar to either centre back and was in his first game for a year, and we looked a tiny bit disorganised as a result. I've rarely seen our centre half as isolated as Gibson was for their second goal before under Dyche - there was no other defender within about 15 yards - and the truth is that for all 3 goals, our defending was uncharacteristically chaotic. Dyche can only blame himself for that, because rightly or wrongly, he decided to take that risk rather than playing at least one of Mee and Tarkowski.
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:54 am

I’d no idea of anything happening at half time whilst watching the second half but the ref had very definitely lost the plot. Some very strange decisions and not so many of them (meaning none) going our way.
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by claretspice » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:59 am

Leaving aside the second yellow card, the only other decision at the beginning of the second half that I disagreed with (or for that matter, Simon Brotherton and Don Hutchison, the two commentators) disagreed with was a foul given against Ward after about 30 seconds. I can think of a couple later in the half, but they weren't big calls.

We definitely didn't get the rub of the green second half, but I think there's a danger of overstating this and its influence on the game.
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:04 am

What I did see last night was the appalling behaviour in the home technical area when they were trying to get a pen. They were on the pitch, cajoling the fourth official and the assistant ref. Never seen anything quite as bad as that.
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Milltown1882 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:07 am

Some crazy decisions in the second half. The second yellow didn’t look like handball at first look and eleven sports showing the replay at 100mph didn’t help to give any more insight after.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by claretspice » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:11 am

ClaretTony wrote:What I did see last night was the appalling behaviour in the home technical area when they were trying to get a pen. They were on the pitch, cajoling the fourth official and the assistant ref. Never seen anything quite as bad as that.
Completely accept that Tony - the bits they showed on the TV weren't good from that perspective - but I honestly didn't think the ref got too much wrong apart from possibly sending off Gibson (and you can make an argument that perversely, that helped us hold what we had because a combination of bringing Tarks on and sitting deeper meant we were an awful lot more solid in the last half hour, so whilst we perhaps lost the chance of narrowing the deficit, going down to ten forced us to take action that reduced our chances of ending up further behind).

Truth was he was pretty whistle happy all night, and in the first half when we had at least equal possession and territory, that went for us as much as against us - but when we were under the cosh in the second half, inevitably that meant we gave away a lot more free kicks than we gained.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by summitclaret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:22 am

Sean has said (BBC website) that the pen hit Gibson's hip first - so no pen and no second yellow.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by jlup1980 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:24 am

The referee missed a lot during the game, especially where Hendrick was concerned. One in particular ended with them getting an essay cross into our box and getting a corner. We were under the cosh due to a poor decision at that point. Our own was a pen, very clumsy defending, and the Ward handball had never been a penalty. His arm is tucked in behind him back. Clearly they didn't think so given the OTT reaction from their bench.

There's no doubt he was nobbled at HT.

The second half was so bad it was laughable. The first 15 minutes was as one sided as you'll ever see, right from the Ward free kick about 3 seconds into the half. He seemed determined to make sure Olympiakos were in the ascendancy early in the half. I agree that the fee kick for their 2nd and the handball were obvious calls but they came from pressure created by the officials. After they went 3-1 the referee had done his job.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by ashtonlongsider » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:32 am

Hopefully we'll give them a taste of their own medicine next Thursday. Lets make home advantage work in our favour.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by bfccrazy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:33 am

What about the tackle on Hendrick - just took his legs then jogged off out wide with the ball.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by claretspice » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:43 am

Tackle on Hendrick was an astonishing miss. Thought we might have had a pen after 3 minutes in the first half too when Barnes looked to be bundled over. But both incidents first half, before the supposed "nobbling", and generally the consensus was the ref had a decent first half.

As for the pen, whether the second yellow is right or wrong, the first issue is whether it was a penalty. It clearly hit his hand, and I agree with Don Hutchison that Gibson had time to move his arm into a position where it wasn't hanging out from his side. Whatever the ricochets, it was in a position that gave the ref a decision to make, and away from home in Europe when you've already got the benefit of the biggest decision of the night (whether correct or not) you know you need to avoid putting yourself in that position if possible. It was possible, Gibson didn't take the opportunity, and it cost us.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Cleveleys_claret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:53 am

Lets blame the ref for what was a shocking display yet again. We really are becoming experts at blaming everyone but SD. It was a poor team selection last night and for someone that suppossdly wants to win the competition why such a weakened team.

We are 2 games into the premier league and we are already playing a left back at left wing and then a striker there who has run his socks off all night and is expected to play within a bank of four covering even more ground. Poor transfer window already biting us on the ass

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by TVC15 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:53 am

Not sure Gibson had time to move his arm at all.
It was a poor decision to give the penalty but a shocking one to book him.
How can it be a booking when it was clearly not deliberate and there was no way in a million years the shot was going in ?

There are many debatable handball decisions given in the penalty areas where players arms are deemed to be in unnatural positions or the ball is fired in etc and whilst the penalties given could be argued either way I can’t remember any where a yellow card is also given.

The referee seemed to be completely different after half time after actually having a decent first half.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:00 am

As I said in the player ratings, there is a real risk now of Gibson becoming a scapegoat, whereas the real villain here is Dyche for playing him. That furnace was as intense as I have ever seen, and the lad is a novice (albeit an expensive one) playing with no experienced leader next to him. Mistakes were inevitable. This experience has broken many better players than Gibson so we need to get behind him. Getting behind Dyche after that line up is something I am now going to find very difficult because he must have known what to expect.

The Ref was got at, yes, but it wasn’t the reason we lost.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:12 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:As I said in the player ratings, there is a real risk now of Gibson becoming a scapegoat, whereas the real villain here is Dyche for playing him. That furnace was as intense as I have ever seen, and the lad is a novice (albeit an expensive one) playing with no experienced leader next to him. Mistakes were inevitable. This experience has broken many better players than Gibson so we need to get behind him. Getting behind Dyche after that line up is something I am now going to find very difficult because he must have known what to expect.

The Ref was got at, yes, but it wasn’t the reason we lost.
Seems to be a bit of an overreaction to a pretty standard foul and the fact the ball ricochet against his arm.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by TVC15 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:15 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:As I said in the player ratings, there is a real risk now of Gibson becoming a scapegoat, whereas the real villain here is Dyche for playing him. That furnace was as intense as I have ever seen, and the lad is a novice (albeit an expensive one) playing with no experienced leader next to him. Mistakes were inevitable. This experience has broken many better players than Gibson so we need to get behind him. Getting behind Dyche after that line up is something I am now going to find very difficult because he must have known what to expect.

The Ref was got at, yes, but it wasn’t the reason we lost.
Seriously WTF are you talking about ?
The only one worried about Gibson is you.
Why do you keep on saying he is inexperienced ? He has been playing at a club bigger than Burnley for years.

And when you say no experience next to him do you mean the club captain behind him ? Or maybe the full backs with several years of either premier league or international experience ?

You are talking absolute nonsense
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:21 am

Sorry Crosspool, but you are off on one here.

Gibson didn't play well, but he's not alone in that and he was unlucky to be sent off

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by JohnDearyMe » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:26 am

Not surprised their coaching staff put so much pressure on the ref. There is an awful lot more riding on this game for them

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by quoonbeatz » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:39 am

there's no blame on gibson at all. the penalty is is just one of those things, gibson can't do anything about it, his arm is in a natural position when you're jumping to block a shot and its just hit him.

its a definite penalty and we'd be livid if it was the other way round and it wasn't given. its never a booking though because it wasn't deliberate handball. that was just appallingly weak refereeing.
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Tall Paul » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:43 am

quoonbeatz wrote:there's no blame on gibson at all. the penalty is is just one of those things, gibson can't do anything about it, his arm is in a natural position when you're jumping to block a shot and its just hit him.

its a definite penalty and we'd be livid if it was the other way round and it wasn't given. its never a booking though because it wasn't deliberate handball. that was just appallingly weak refereeing.
If it wasn't deliberate handball it wasn't a penalty.

It definitely shouldn't have been a booking.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by duncandisorderly » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:48 am

Is deliberate handball a mandatory booking?

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by quoonbeatz » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:50 am

Tall Paul wrote:If it wasn't deliberate handball it wasn't a penalty.
agreed that's exactly how it should be, it seems a grey area with referees though as about 90% of handballs that are given aren't deliberate. the number of ball to hand incidents far outweighs the deliberate ones but they still get given.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:50 am

The ref has previous for dicey red cards.

He was involved in a game with Dynamo Kiev when he controversially showed 2 reds to Kiev players.

Mmmm......

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Tall Paul » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:06 am

duncandisorderly wrote:Is deliberate handball a mandatory booking?
No.
quoonbeatz wrote:
agreed that's exactly how it should be, it seems a grey area with referees though as about 90% of handballs that are given aren't deliberate. the number of ball to hand incidents far outweighs the deliberate ones but they still get given.
The law explicitly states that handball must be deliberate to be penalised, there's no grey area in that respect. Agree that the guidelines for determining whether it's deliberate or not could be called a grey area.
Last edited by Tall Paul on Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:11 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote: Getting behind Dyche after that line up is something I am now going to find very difficult because he must have known what to expect.

.

One of the funniest things you will read on here :D
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by quoonbeatz » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:18 am

Tall Paul wrote: The law explicitly states that handball must be deliberate to be penalised, there's no grey area in that respect. Agree that the guidelines for determining whether it's deliberate or not could be called a grey area.
i know, that's exactly what i was saying. all this unnatural position thing is ******** really. unless you're really obviously attempting to block the ball or you move your arm towards it, i don't see how they can decide in that split second that its deliberate.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:26 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:One of the funniest things you will read on here :D
He’s been banging that drum for a few weeks now as well.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Pimlico_Claret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:31 am

I was there, a few of us said at half time that the ref will come out with his home shirt on, having had a decent first half. That's exactly what happened. The quality of the officials in all of our European games has been very poor. Still, at least UEFA can concentrate on seat material.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Paranoid » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:35 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:He’s been banging that drum for a few weeks now as well.
And unfortunately he is not the only one.
Why do so many threads on here end up completely off subject?

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by tim_noone » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:40 am

Ifs buts and maybes....re.2nd goal. Ward had ample time to put in a schoolboy tackle prior to them scoring.but... he didn't.if..he had maybe they wouldn't have scored! But such is life we have the away goal.also in all my time watching burnley I've never ever recalled us having a bad referee when winning.....

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Dark Cloud » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:06 pm

No way could Gibson's handball be construed as deliberate. I thought it was a harsh decision full stop, but to book him for it was wrong imo. (His first booking was justified and he was being skinned at the time)
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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by SGEclaret » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:52 pm

Taxi driver we had this morning said ref was on their side second half. Olympiakos fan.
Also said we were a strong team (tough guys). Still to play for second leg I reckon. Just need a good TM night under the lights.
Saw a few clarets still making the trek up to Parthenon today in 33 degree heat. Now rehydrating...

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by claretspice » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:53 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:i know, that's exactly what i was saying. all this unnatural position thing is ******** really. unless you're really obviously attempting to block the ball or you move your arm towards it, i don't see how they can decide in that split second that its deliberate.
But that is the interpretation, rightly and wrongly, and all refs and players know it. If you jump to block a shot, make sure your hand is touching your side, or is behind your back - because if its at all away from your side, you take a risk.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by quoonbeatz » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:09 pm

claretspice wrote:But that is the interpretation, rightly and wrongly, and all refs and players know it. If you jump to block a shot, make sure your hand is touching your side, or is behind your back - because if its at all away from your side, you take a risk.
yes i know, again, that's exactly what i'm saying. the interpretation of 'deliberate handball' means that loads of penalties given for handball are not handball.

its completely unnatural to jump to block a shot with your hands stuck to your side or behind your back. its also really obvious when your arm is in a position to purposely block the ball. gibson's wasn't, hence the penalty is harsh but the way referees interpret the law, they give it 95% of the time, which is wrong.

we'd have wanted that given if it was the other way round.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by claretspice » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:12 pm

Think we agree entirely then Quoon.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by FCBurnley » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:45 pm

Welcome to the corrupt world of European Football. Hopefully we can learn and give the Greeks a torrid time at Turf Moor. Remember Greek football teams are like Greek wine. Neither travel well and Olympiakos are 0-10 in England !

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:03 pm

I can't be sure but the pressure for their 2nd goal came from a ridiculous free kick given against Ward from their kick off. I don't recall us regaining possession between that point and the goal, although I may be wrong.

The penalty never should have been. Gibson has his arm by his side, about as natural position as you can get. He didn't deliberately handle the ball, so if that is a penalty then the laws of the game need to be amended to that effect. Does Gibson have an obligation to move his arm out of the way if someone kicks the ball towards it? If he had have tried to move his arm out of the way and the ball had hit his arm he could easily have been construed as moving his arm towards the ball. The poor decision to give the penalty could have been taken on the chin but the second yellow card was outrageous in honesty.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by IanMcL » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:10 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I’d no idea of anything happening at half time whilst watching the second half but the ref had very definitely lost the plot. Some very strange decisions and not so many of them (meaning none) going our way.
I agree.

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Re: Ref nobbled at HT??

Post by biggles » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:22 pm

i can't believe that so many on here think we'll get an impartial ref when playing in europe. these are not prem league refs and they have different ideas on the game and what is acceptable behaviour on the pitch. european players have far more experience with them than we do and they know how to avoid punishment even when committing horrendous tackles. english teams have always been on the wrong end of dubious refereeing decisions in european competitions. bloody europeans! sooner we brexit the better.

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