How do you defend that?

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warksclaret
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by warksclaret » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:25 pm

Just hope SD and his coaching team do not get too down

I think the players need to hold one of their meetings like on New Year the year we were last promoted. WE went the second half of the season without losing

Suspect Heaton could start on Thursday and keep his place. Ben might start Thursday but be rested v Man U. This is a big test for SD

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by KlyBfc » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:25 pm

Stood in a boozer in Fulham scratching my head and praying that what I have seen over the last two Sunday’s is a blip we will bounce back from, however I’m not too sure.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by SGr » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:26 pm

Ultimately, our entire approach to the transfer window was wrong. We went in thinking about how we can add a few numbers, bit of depth etc - as I could just tell we would. What we should’ve done is looked at last season and thought about how we can take that side to the next level. We scored less goals than we played games last year, and were (and still are) harbouring long term injuries to key players - so the idea that we didn’t need significant upgrades was and still is a complete and utter myth.

We f*cked it up royally. 3 signings we made. Three. A goalkeeper (we only signed him due to extraordinary circumstances), a centre half, and a bloke who seemingly was signed for the u23s.

Even the players we perused and failed to sign weren’t good enough. Jay Rodriguez is 29, Craig Dawson was never a better option than Gibson, and Clucas is championship standard.

The way it’s looking, January is going to have to be big. And yeah, that means business early doors, not with 2 days to go. Consider the extra fees we may have to fork out a fine for p*ss*ng around.
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Goody1975
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Goody1975 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:26 pm

TsarBomba wrote:I have no idea who is still available on a free, but we are desperate for some extra bodies in the middle and out wide, even if they are only short term deals to the end of the season.
You mean the two positions that were priority at the end of the last campaign?

We let two players leave on frees in addition to a loan player and relied on two medium/long term injured players to be back at 100% at the start of the campaign without a back up plan. The back up plan is now needed and we are 100 million miles short of being able to plug those gaps.
Last edited by Goody1975 on Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ClaretAndJew
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:26 pm

KRBFC wrote:is that PL only? I copied the stat off somebody else on here so I could be wrong.
Sorry I'm being a moron. Here :

14 Apr 2018 Burnley v Leicester City W 2-1 Premier League
19 Apr 2018 Burnley v Chelsea L 1-2 Premier League
22 Apr 2018 Stoke City v Burnley D 1-1 Premier League
28 Apr 2018 Burnley v Brighton and Hove Albion D 0-0 Premier League
06 May 2018 Arsenal v Burnley L 5-0 Premier League
13 May 2018 Burnley v AFC Bournemouth L 1-2 Premier League
26 Jul 2018 Aberdeen v Burnley D 1-1 UEFA Europa League
02 Aug 2018 Burnley v Aberdeen W 3-1 UEFA Europa League
09 Aug 2018 İstanbul Başakşehir v Burnley D 0-0 UEFA Europa League
12 Aug 2018 Southampton v Burnley D 0-0 Premier League
16 Aug 2018 Burnley v İstanbul Başakşehir W 1-0 UEFA Europa League
19 Aug 2018 Burnley v Watford L 1-3 Premier League
23 Aug 2018 Olympiakos v Burnley L 3-1 UEFA Europa League
26 Aug 2018 Fulham v Burnley L 4-2 Premier League

Last win in 90 mins was in the PL against Leicester on 14th April this year. 13 games ago.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:27 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Here's the thing:

Either money makes a difference or it doesn't. It can't be used as an excuse why we lose and yet dismissed when we don't spend a lot on players. .
Spot on from reading this board i thought fulham we certaintys to go down from spunking cash and overpriced run of the mill players

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by mkmel » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:27 pm

We were outplayed by a team that cost £100M and had a World Cup winner playing for them on loan
And they also had a player on loan from Athletico Madrid playing and a boy wonder on the bench
One of their players cost more than all three of our signings
We also had arguably our 2 most creative players still out injured and our only other creative player Gudmundsson went off injured early on in the game
Any surprise that we were outplayed?
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:29 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:?????
we where incredibly lucky not to lose 7-1
Our "expected goals" conceded was only 1.8.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by DustyBawls » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:29 pm

Belgianclaret wrote:I think we'll need to bite the bullet for a few more weeks, hope Brady can return and Vydra can bring something extra (Defour still looks weeks if not months away)...
What makes you say he's months away? I'm not at all surprised - just wondering.

I can only assume Vydra will be left until after the International break.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:30 pm

mkmel wrote:We were outplayed by a team that cost £100M and had a World Cup winner playing for them on loan
And they also had a player on loan from Athletico Madrid playing and a boy wonder on the bench
One of their players cost more than all three of our signings
We also had arguably our 2 most creative players still out injured and our only other creative player Gudmundsson went off injured early on in the game
Any surprise that we were outplayed?
So what you are saying is we should accept getting beat by most of the sides in the league then.
Last edited by Granny WeatherWax on Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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claretdj
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by claretdj » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:30 pm

KRBFC wrote:We look doomed already, the football is horrific, we can't defend or create chances, no pace, 1 fit wide player. Someone tell me a team that plays a worst brand of football than us, I'll wait...... we genuinely should've conceded at least 7, utterly embarrassing toothless display summed up when Schurrle went through 1 on 1, while the entire defence stood around watching.

This hoofball has all gone a bit boring, we've been playing this guff for far too long, taught a football lesson by a newly promoted side, I don't understand why we can't string passes together or genuinely create chances, we have the players, the blame falls at Dyche's feet imo.
I never agree with what you post untill now, spot on! I just hope it's the Thurs / Sunday program that is doing us over as that was awful today. Long ball crap with no creativity n very little idea on how to open Fulham up & to concede 10 goals in last 3 games is very worrying.. utc

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:30 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Our "expected goals" conceded was only 1.8.
did you watch the game ? They hit the post, hit the bar, Hart made 3 top saves and they missed another 3 or 4 good opportunities. We got battered and the scoreline completely flattered us

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by SGr » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:33 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Our "expected goals" conceded was only 1.8.
Proof right there that watching the game will always provide more insight than some computer algorithm.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:35 pm

Will be very interesting to see the comments from SD

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:38 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:did you watch the game ? They hit the post, hit the bar, Hart made 3 top saves and they missed another 3 or 4 good opportunities. We got battered and the scoreline completely flattered us
Yes I watched the game, and we definitely deserved to lose, but to concede as many as we did was unlucky.

Now probably isn't the time to get into an expected goals discussion, but it's a pretty good indication of how games have gone and certainly better than eyetest alone.

Which were the good opportunities that they missed?

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by mkmel » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:39 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:So what you are saying is we should accept getting beat by most of the sides in the league then.
No not accept but not be surprised when even the non big clubs and the promoted clubs have spent an absolute fortune

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:40 pm

mkmel wrote:No not accept but not be surprised when even the non big clubs and the promoted clubs have spent an absolute fortune
So money does make a good team then?

Granny WeatherWax
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:41 pm

mkmel wrote:No not accept but not be surprised when even the non big clubs and the promoted clubs have spent an absolute fortune
Haven’t 18 sides spent more than us?

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Erasmus » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:42 pm

The first thing to say is that every season in the Premier League for Burnley is a fight against relegation. It is obvious to everyone that we don't have the same resources as the other teams with the possible exception of Huddersfield and Cardiff. This year will be a particularly tough fight against relegation because Wolves and Fulham have received massive financial support from their owners that we can never hope to match.

The failure to strengthen significantly in the transfer window is just a sign of that issue rather than us not having a good recruitment policy. Over the past few years we have won the Football League and then done pretty well in the Premier League and in doing so we have overcome massive odds against us. From a more dispassionate perspective what we have achieved is just remarkable. The problem is that the remarkable is remarkable, it simply doesn't go on for ever.

Over this time Sean Dyche and the board have come up with a strategy that for years now has enabled us to massively overachieve. A large part of that strategy is based on playing tight aggressive football and building up a really strong team spirit. To keep this successful strategy working we can bring in only a particular type of player and that means we have limited options in the transfer market, even more limited when you factor in the limited resources available

This season there is no doubt the Europa League has led to poorer Premier League performances as many feared it would do. It is not just a matter of players being physically fatigued but there is also the mental fatigue of having to focus on two really tough matches every week. The way the Europa League works is just ridiculous. It means you have to play in the equivalent of two leagues instead of one.It is not just about fatigue it is also about preparation time. Every week we have to work out how to play in two high level matches. After a late return on Thursday the players would then probably have Friday morning off and then have only Saturday to work on detailed planning for the Fulham game. I think it is this limited time for effective planning and working on game plans that is a bigger factor than the fatigue.

Whatever happens this season, Burnley have been wonderful over the last five years or so, winning the Football League and then 'Best of the Rest'. There are solid reasons why we are struggling a bit so far this season, but I don't see anyone to blame. It's just the way it is with Burnley in the Premier League. So let's see what happens on Thursday and then dig in for a really tough fight for the rest of the season.

PS: I am a happy-clapper.
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:42 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Yes I watched the game, and we definitely deserved to lose, but to concede as many as we did was unlucky.

Now probably isn't the time to get into an expected goals discussion, but it's a pretty good indication of how games have gone and certainly better than eyetest alone.

Which were the good opportunities that they missed?
post, bar, 3 saves Hart made he shouldn't have made 2 of them, 3 or 4 clear chances for Fulham on the break etc. Dress it up any way you want TP, we got battered. The worst thing for us was they defended worse than us but our lack of creativity meant we couldn't hurt them (especially in the second half)

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Conroy92 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:42 pm

We should have conceded more. We were awful, the German could have scored 3!

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:42 pm

SGr wrote:Proof right there that watching the game will always provide more insight than some computer algorithm.
Proof right there that you know nothing about expected goals and what they are useful for.

The expected goals model has been predicting this drop in form for us for some time.
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:43 pm

Conroy92 wrote:We should have conceded more. We were awful, the German could have scored 3!
Could have been 7 or 8. He had more shots that our entire side.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by claretspice » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:44 pm

Haven't seen the game yet and will watch the highlights later.

But theres no reason to panic quite yet. We probably should have led at half time both at Watford and at Southampton, and if we had, id expect us to be sitting on 4 points now. That's a big if admittedly, but it shows the fine margins of the game.

By all accounts Fulham's first today was a worldy and 100m worth of attacking talent caused us problems but we were well in the game until it went 4-2.

Im a big critic of our failings in the window, but in fairness bringing in winger wouldn't have stopped us conceding an uncharacteristic number of goals last werk and this week so im not sure its the root cause of the current problems. Injurues generally arent helping, nor are one or two individual errors and a bit of luck.

Most of all, weve all got to hang in there are and stick together. Turning in on players, board or manager helps no-one. Bournemouth started badly last season, dug in and ultimately finished comfortably in mid table. That's the model for us.
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mkmel
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by mkmel » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:44 pm

claretdj wrote:I never agree with what you post untill now, spot on! I just hope it's the Thurs / Sunday program that is doing us over as that was awful today. Long ball crap with no creativity n very little idea on how to open Fulham up & to concede 10 goals in last 3 games is very worrying.. utc
When Joey went off we were left with no creative player on the pitch
We are really missing Defour and Brady and not signing a left winger and a central midfielder and a striker in the window hasn’t helped

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by DustyBawls » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:44 pm

Erasmus wrote:The first thing to say is that every season in the Premier League for Burnley is a fight against relegation. It is obvious to everyone that we don't have the same resources as the other teams with the possible exception of Huddersfield and Cardiff. This year will be a particularly tough fight against relegation because Wolves and Fulham have received massive financial support from their owners that we can never hope to match.

The failure to strengthen significantly in the transfer window is just a sign of that issue rather than us not having a good recruitment policy. Over the past few years we have won the Football League and then done pretty well in the Premier League and in doing so we have overcome massive odds against us. From a more dispassionate perspective what we have achieved is just remarkable. The problem is that the remarkable is remarkable, it simply doesn't go on for ever.

Over this time Sean Dyche and the board have come up with a strategy that for years now has enabled us to massively overachieve. A large part of that strategy is based on playing tight aggressive football and building up a really strong team spirit. To keep this successful strategy working we can bring in only a particular type of player and that means we have limited options in the transfer market, even more limited when you factor in the limited resources available

This season there is no doubt the Europa League has led to poorer Premier League performances as many feared it would do. It is not just a matter of players being physically fatigued but there is also the mental fatigue of having to focus on two really tough matches every week. The way the Europa League works is just ridiculous. It means you have to play in the equivalent of two leagues instead of one.It is not just about fatigue it is also about preparation time. Every week we have to work out how to play in two high level matches. After a late return on Thursday the players would then probably have Friday morning off and then have only Saturday to work on detailed planning for the Fulham game. I think it is this limited time for effective planning and working on game plans that is a bigger factor than the fatigue.

Whatever happens this season, Burnley have been wonderful over the last five years or so, winning the Football League and then 'Best of the Rest'. There are solid reasons why we are struggling a bit so far this season, but I don't see anyone to blame. It's just the way it is with Burnley in the Premier League. So let's see what happens on Thursday and then dig in for a really tough fight for the rest of the season.

PS: I am a happy-clapper.
I hope ClaretSpice is reading this - this is how to type multiple paragraphs and not send anybody to sleep.
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:45 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Proof right there that you know nothing about expected goals and what they are useful for.

The expected goals model has been predicting this drop in form for us for some time.
Just please watch the game then give an opinion, your constant argumentative view is as boring as the hoofball the rest of us watch. You seem the type to argue with yourself, just to argue.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by SGr » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:45 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Proof right there that you know nothing about expected goals and what they are useful for.

The expected goals model has been predicting this drop in form for us for some time.
Actually we’ve always been the exception to the expected goals model, because of our top class keepers and fact that we allow manageable shots on our goal ((there’s a more in depth look at that somewhere)).

As has been said, they hit the woodwork twice, and created enough chances to score many more than they did. Xg is not a perfect model. Doubt it ever will be.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:46 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:post, bar, 3 saves Hart made he shouldn't have made 2 of them, 3 or 4 clear chances for Fulham on the break etc. Dress it up any way you want TP, we got battered. The worst thing for us was they defended worse than us but our lack of creativity meant we couldn't hurt them (especially in the second half)
I'm not dressing anything up, I agree we were poor and deserved to lose.

As I said, the expected goals thing is probably for another day, but the big thing about it is that most people overestimate the chances of a shot resulting in a goal.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:46 pm

Erasmus wrote:The first thing to say is that every season in the Premier League for Burnley is a fight against relegation. It is obvious to everyone that we don't have the same resources as the other teams with the possible exception of Huddersfield and Cardiff. This year will be a particularly tough fight against relegation because Wolves and Fulham have received massive financial support from their owners that we can never hope to match.

The failure to strengthen significantly in the transfer window is just a sign of that issue rather than us not having a good recruitment policy. Over the past few years we have won the Football League and then done pretty well in the Premier League and in doing so we have overcome massive odds against us. From a more dispassionate perspective what we have achieved is just remarkable. The problem is that the remarkable is remarkable, it simply doesn't go on for ever.

Over this time Sean Dyche and the board have come up with a strategy that for years now has enabled us to massively overachieve. A large part of that strategy is based on playing tight aggressive football and building up a really strong team spirit. To keep this successful strategy working we can bring in only a particular type of player and that means we have limited options in the transfer market, even more limited when you factor in the limited resources available

This season there is no doubt the Europa League has led to poorer Premier League performances as many feared it would do. It is not just a matter of players being physically fatigued but there is also the mental fatigue of having to focus on two really tough matches every week. The way the Europa League works is just ridiculous. It means you have to play in the equivalent of two leagues instead of one.It is not just about fatigue it is also about preparation time. Every week we have to work out how to play in two high level matches. After a late return on Thursday the players would then probably have Friday morning off and then have only Saturday to work on detailed planning for the Fulham game. I think it is this limited time for effective planning and working on game plans that is a bigger factor than the fatigue.

Whatever happens this season, Burnley have been wonderful over the last five years or so, winning the Football League and then 'Best of the Rest'. There are solid reasons why we are struggling a bit so far this season, but I don't see anyone to blame. It's just the way it is with Burnley in the Premier League. So let's see what happens on Thursday and then dig in for a really tough fight for the rest of the season.

PS: I am a happy-clapper.
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you have said the lack of investment is 100% the reason we are struggling. Dyche said on many occasions if the board gave him money to spend he would spend it - as others have said, maybe being in the PL is too big for our current board to handle (or have the balls to handle).

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:48 pm

Tall Paul wrote:I'm not dressing anything up, I agree we were poor and deserved to lose.

As I said, the expected goals thing is probably for another day, but the big thing about it is that most people overestimate the chances of a shot resulting in a goal.
TP, start a new thread and explain it, where the stats come from etc. I'd be interested to hear more

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:50 pm

claretspice wrote:
By all accounts Fulham's first today was a worldy and 100m worth of attacking talent caused us problems but we were well in the game until it went 4-2.

Im a big critic of our failings in the window, but in fairness bringing in winger wouldn't have stopped us conceding an uncharacteristic number of goals last werk and this week so im not sure its the root cause of the current problems. Injurues generally arent helping, nor are one or two individual errors and a bit of luck.

Most of all, weve all got to hang in there are and stick together. Turning in on players, board or manager helps no-one. Bournemouth started badly last season, dug in and ultimately finished comfortably in mid table. That's the model for us.
Please tell me this £100M Fulham spent on ''attacking'' talent, i'll wait.... Mitrovic £20M, Schurrle LOAN, Vietto LOAN, Cairney (few million quid AT MOST)


I also believe, you were telling us all a winger wasn't a priority, now we have to play a left back there.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by SGr » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:50 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Whilst I agree with a lot of what you have said the lack of investment is 100% the reason we are struggling. Dyche said on many occasions if the board gave him money to spend he would spend it - as others have said, maybe being in the PL is too big for our current board to handle (or have the balls to handle).
Agree with that. It’s reflected in our recruitment policy and scouting. Don’t want to spend big, but also don’t want to invest in proper large scale recruitment which could see us pick up bargains abroad or at home. Rock and a hard place when you’re persuing older players from expensive divisions whilst trying to “not overspend”. I think the better our achievements in this division, the more out of their depth they all become.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:53 pm

KRBFC wrote:Just please watch the game then give an opinion, your constant argumentative view is as boring as the hoofball the rest of us watch. You seem the type to argue with yourself, just to argue.
Pot, kettle, black.

I have given my opinion.
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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by winsomeyen » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:54 pm

Erasmus wrote:The first thing to say is that every season in the Premier League for Burnley is a fight against relegation. It is obvious to everyone that we don't have the same resources as the other teams with the possible exception of Huddersfield and Cardiff. This year will be a particularly tough fight against relegation because Wolves and Fulham have received massive financial support from their owners that we can never hope to match.

The failure to strengthen significantly in the transfer window is just a sign of that issue rather than us not having a good recruitment policy. Over the past few years we have won the Football League and then done pretty well in the Premier League and in doing so we have overcome massive odds against us. From a more dispassionate perspective what we have achieved is just remarkable. The problem is that the remarkable is remarkable, it simply doesn't go on for ever.

Over this time Sean Dyche and the board have come up with a strategy that for years now has enabled us to massively overachieve. A large part of that strategy is based on playing tight aggressive football and building up a really strong team spirit. To keep this successful strategy working we can bring in only a particular type of player and that means we have limited options in the transfer market, even more limited when you factor in the limited resources available

This season there is no doubt the Europa League has led to poorer Premier League performances as many feared it would do. It is not just a matter of players being physically fatigued but there is also the mental fatigue of having to focus on two really tough matches every week. The way the Europa League works is just ridiculous. It means you have to play in the equivalent of two leagues instead of one.It is not just about fatigue it is also about preparation time. Every week we have to work out how to play in two high level matches. After a late return on Thursday the players would then probably have Friday morning off and then have only Saturday to work on detailed planning for the Fulham game. I think it is this limited time for effective planning and working on game plans that is a bigger factor than the fatigue.

Whatever happens this season, Burnley have been wonderful over the last five years or so, winning the Football League and then 'Best of the Rest'. There are solid reasons why we are struggling a bit so far this season, but I don't see anyone to blame. It's just the way it is with Burnley in the Premier League. So let's see what happens on Thursday and then dig in for a really tough fight for the rest of the season.

PS: I am a happy-clapper.

As long as the board continue to reject outside investment (for whatever reason) we will never be able to compete financially.

If with the best intentions in the world the current incumbants are unable to fund the club given the sky high rewards for survival surely it is time to stand aside.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:54 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Pot, kettle, black.

I have given my opinion.
So you agree we were crap, then why are you arguing with posters who also agree we were crap?

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by ClaretAL » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:55 pm

Agreed, and I cant see the Board opening the purse strings in January when we finish 7th and Dyche doesn't get the backing, im fairly confident if we are in the expected relegation scrap they wages with overrule any signing. so we are back to Dyche's motivational skill to get the team punching above its weight, and success builds confidence, so we need to stop shipping goals fast as we all know we are not going to score many.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:56 pm

Dyche’s defence “looks like it was £100m well spent”.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:56 pm

warksclaret wrote:I think this has been coming since the Leicester game at home. Suspect performance figures since then would be relegation category
I said similar at the end of the season and over summer.

Way too many similarities with WBA LAST summer. I got shot down for saying it. Happen just a good job we didnt sign half of WBAs team!

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by claretspice » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:57 pm

KRBFC wrote:Please tell me this £100M Fulham spent on ''attacking'' talent, i'll wait.... Mitrovic £20M, Schurrle LOAN, Vietto LOAN, Cairney (few million quid AT MOST)


I also believe, you were telling us all a winger wasn't a priority, now we have to play a left back there.
Nope, youre wrong there. Fully argued we ahould be bringing in reinforcements in midfield, including out wide.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:58 pm

SGr wrote:Actually we’ve always been the exception to the expected goals model, because of our top class keepers and fact that we allow manageable shots on our goal ((there’s a more in depth look at that somewhere)).

As has been said, they hit the woodwork twice, and created enough chances to score many more than they did. Xg is not a perfect model. Doubt it ever will be.
I agree it's not perfect, but it's been proven to be a good indicator of performance (a better indicator than results over a small number of games).

I know we've always conceded fewer than expected goals suggests, which makes today even more of an anomaly.

I'll start another thread on it as Vegas suggests, probably tomorrow or later in the week when people have calmed down.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:59 pm

claretspice wrote:Nope, youre wrong there. Fully argued we ahould be bringing in reinforcements in midfield, including out wide.
Which we chose not to do.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:59 pm

KRBFC wrote:So you agree we were crap, then why are you arguing with posters who also agree we were crap?
Because that's not what we're arguing about. We're arguing about whether we were unlucky to concede as many goals as we did.

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:00 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Yes I watched the game, and we definitely deserved to lose, but to concede as many as we did was unlucky.

Now probably isn't the time to get into an expected goals discussion, but it's a pretty good indication of how games have gone and certainly better than eyetest alone.

Which were the good opportunities that they missed?
Schurrle hit the bar, missed a 1 on 1, had about 5 other chances. Mitrovic hit the post, missed an open goal (when he actually went into the net). There were more.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by winsomeyen » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:01 pm

claretspice wrote:Haven't seen the game yet and will watch the highlights later.

But theres no reason to panic quite yet. We probably should have led at half time both at Watford and at Southampton, and if we had, id expect us to be sitting on 4 points now. That's a big if admittedly, but it shows the fine margins of the game.

By all accounts Fulham's first today was a worldy and 100m worth of attacking talent caused us problems but we were well in the game until it went 4-2.

Im a big critic of our failings in the window, but in fairness bringing in winger wouldn't have stopped us conceding an uncharacteristic number of goals last werk and this week so im not sure its the root cause of the current problems. Injurues generally arent helping, nor are one or two individual errors and a bit of luck.

Most of all, weve all got to hang in there are and stick together. Turning in on players, board or manager helps no-one. Bournemouth started badly last season, dug in and ultimately finished comfortably in mid table. That's the model for us.

If, Should have, could have Would have might have, come on Spice thats losers talk.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by winsomeyen » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:01 pm

claretspice wrote:Haven't seen the game yet and will watch the highlights later.

But theres no reason to panic quite yet. We probably should have led at half time both at Watford and at Southampton, and if we had, id expect us to be sitting on 4 points now. That's a big if admittedly, but it shows the fine margins of the game.

By all accounts Fulham's first today was a worldy and 100m worth of attacking talent caused us problems but we were well in the game until it went 4-2.

Im a big critic of our failings in the window, but in fairness bringing in winger wouldn't have stopped us conceding an uncharacteristic number of goals last werk and this week so im not sure its the root cause of the current problems. Injurues generally arent helping, nor are one or two individual errors and a bit of luck.

Most of all, weve all got to hang in there are and stick together. Turning in on players, board or manager helps no-one. Bournemouth started badly last season, dug in and ultimately finished comfortably in mid table. That's the model for us.

If, Should have, could have Would have might have, come on Spice thats losers talk.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:02 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Because that's not what we're arguing about. We're arguing about whether we were unlucky to concede as many goals as we did.

You need to work on your reading comprehension.
Unlucky to concede 3? People actually believe that? :lol:

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:02 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:It hasnt just started. Many fans have slowly been becoming disillusioned with the club over the summer. The lack of signings, the constant regurgitated rubbish that the club come up with.

"wages are spiralling out of control" - Yet SD is happy to take 70k a week

Its not that we are getting beat for me...its the absolute rubbish football that is constantly served up. Every week long ball up to no one.

Sign Vydra and dont even put him on the bench.

3 games in and not a midfielder or winger on the bench. Why wasn't Walters on the bench instead of one of the four defenders. Or Mcneil who we have been told all preseason is close to the first team. Another Sd way of trying to pull the wool over our eyes so he doesn't have to spend any money.

Players starting to tweet cryptic messages which make me question whether all is actually as good as we are told - spirit wise in the camp.

SICK OF WATCHING **** FOOTBALL WEEK IN WEEK OUT
Last edited by scouseclaret on Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:02 pm

KRBFC wrote:Schurrle hit the bar, missed a 1 on 1, had about 5 other chances. Mitrovic hit the post, missed an open goal (when he actually went into the net). There were more.
You’re right. It could have been easily 7 or 8.

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Re: How do you defend that?

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:06 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:It hasnt just started. Many fans have slowly been becoming disillusioned with the club over the summer. The lack of signings, the constant regurgitated rubbish that the club come up with.

"wages are spiralling out of control" - Yet SD is happy to take 70k a week

Its not that we are getting beat for me...its the absolute rubbish football that is constantly served up. Every week long ball up to no one.

Sign Vydra and dont even put him on the bench.

3 games in and not a midfielder or winger on the bench. Why wasn't Walters on the bench instead of one of the four defenders. Or Mcneil who we have been told all preseason is close to the first team. Another Sd way of trying to pull the wool over our eyes so he doesn't have to spend any money.

Players starting to tweet cryptic messages which make me question whether all is actually as good as we are told - spirit wise in the camp.

SICK OF WATCHING **** FOOTBALL WEEK IN WEEK OUT
I take it from that last comment you’re not very old, Cleveleys - I remember chanting something similar to Franks Teasdale and Casper.

Yes, it’s been a horrible start to the season, but we’re only 3games in. We’re going through a bad patch after our best season in 50 years and qualifying for Europe. Are we really this fickle?
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