2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
that's just the arrogance i expected from someone like you, tbh. think you have all the answers and anyone who voted for brexit is ignorant. without wanting to sound offensive i think you've been brainwashed by the biased media that you probably ingest. why don't you list what you perceive to be the good things about the EU. I expect that I would be able to take each one to pieces and show you just how brainwashed and force fed a diet of bullshit you've succumbed to. are we being fair, though? that's similar to saying 'no offense but....'.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
The message you was also conveying yesterday about children & Brexit also mirrored the very same accusation, in fairness thought you probably didn't intend that or maybe you did, only you know. The previous post seemed well reasoned especially in terms of mind changing which is futile.Lancasterclaret wrote:I think you need to follow your own advice and look into the whole of the EU.
Your whole posts screams complete ignorance of the whole subject if we are being fair.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
You think you are not being arrogant?
You don't have anything to back up what you believe in. Yet you get all offended when people challenge you?
It might be news for you Biggles, but just repeating **** you hear because you want to believe it is doesn't change the fact that it is still ****.
You don't have anything to back up what you believe in. Yet you get all offended when people challenge you?
It might be news for you Biggles, but just repeating **** you hear because you want to believe it is doesn't change the fact that it is still ****.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
I'm not quite sure what you want me to say here?
You are repeating stuff that isn't true.
At what stage do you want me to go "hang on a sec, this is has been great fun for three years but I can't help noticing that you are still repeating stuff that isn't true, and has been demonstrated time and time again with facts that it isn't true"
At what stage do you think I'm going to go "Yeah, you are right. Even though there is nothing to back up your point, because you are getting annoyed with me I'd better agree with you?"
Come off it Biggles, you need to back up your stuff with research and examples and stop getting offended by me calling you out.
You are repeating stuff that isn't true.
At what stage do you want me to go "hang on a sec, this is has been great fun for three years but I can't help noticing that you are still repeating stuff that isn't true, and has been demonstrated time and time again with facts that it isn't true"
At what stage do you think I'm going to go "Yeah, you are right. Even though there is nothing to back up your point, because you are getting annoyed with me I'd better agree with you?"
Come off it Biggles, you need to back up your stuff with research and examples and stop getting offended by me calling you out.
Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Fair enough. I'm of the view that I want my personal data protected and I'd prefer that if CCTV (or whatever else) can't be implemented properly with decent levels of security, disclosure, etc then it shouldn't be done at all rather than done in a half-assed manner.CrosspoolClarets wrote:I don't have an issue with much of it, per se, in fact I don't have an issue with much of what the EU attempts to regulate, but I'll try to explain why it still bothers me.
One of my concerns post-Brexit is that it will become a race to the bottom in terms of things like worker's rights, corporation tax, food safety, data protection, health and safety, etc with deregulation in the interest of chasing the money and trying to bump-start the economy. It may not happen but there are plenty of rumblings that it's on the cards.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Lancasterclaret wrote:You think you are not being arrogant?
You don't have anything to back up what you believe in. Yet you get all offended when people challenge you?
It might be news for you Biggles, but just repeating **** you hear because you want to believe it is doesn't change the fact that it is still ****.
yeah, i could same the very same, of course.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
But you couldn't though
Thats the whole point.
Your entire arguments are based on "this might be better". All of it.
Mine are based on the current status quo, with facts and stats.
Thats the whole point.
Your entire arguments are based on "this might be better". All of it.
Mine are based on the current status quo, with facts and stats.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
ps lancaster. you don't offend me, was it your intention to? you amuse me but no, you don't offend me. so don't fret.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
*Sigh*
All I'm doing is pointing out that your beliefs are based on stuff that isn't true.
Nothing to do with trying to offend you, or amusing you.
You can't post **** and expect people not to call it out.
All I'm doing is pointing out that your beliefs are based on stuff that isn't true.
Nothing to do with trying to offend you, or amusing you.
You can't post **** and expect people not to call it out.
Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
The leave campaign was very good at fostering a 'backs to the wall' feeling among its supporters, but the reality is print media was (and is) very strongly behind brexit. When you add up the titles and consider their circulation reach, the world 'overwhelming' is apt:biggles wrote:you talk of leavers changing their minds after becoming more informed etc. where's that info coming from, though? seems the vast majority of the media is unashamedly biased and pro-remain. maybe if more people actually looked into how the EU parliament functions then a lot more remainers might want to re-think their opinion! are you still going on about leavers giving many different reasons for wanting to exit the EU instead of just one big reason? i guess we give a lot of diffent reasons for wanting out simply because there are many, many reasons for wanting Brexit, any Brexit!
i like to think that us brexiteers have seen the light and, unlike remainers, we haven't been brainwashed by the EU bullshitting machinery. still, i can't change your mind about brexit and nor you mine so i guess all this debating is pretty pointless as far as changing opinions is concerned.
http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-05-23-uk- ... ons-brexit#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... f99adc6525" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/strong-u ... e-tracker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That you believe otherwise suggests you're susceptible to (you might call it brainwashing, but that's extreme) advertising yourself. Bear in mind that many newspapers have been attacking the EU for decades before the referendum too.
The first link talks about how seventy percent of politicians quoted in the press in articles about the referendum were Tories (on either side of the campaign). In my opinion the other remain parties - the Greens, Labour, LibDems, and the nationalist parties all had more thoughtful, positive, and cogent arguments in favour of the EU than did the remain Tories (who as we know went with project fear). Had their voices been reported more widely, I think the result would have been different.
Lastly, the commonly held perception (and again another success for the leave's marketing team) was that voting leave was a chance for the common person to kick the establishment in the goolies. But the leaders of the leave campaign - Boris Johnson, Arron Banks, Nigel Farage, JRM, Michael Gove, IDS, etc are all members of the establishment. And further, all the newspapers that backed leave - the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Sun, the Express, are (or were) owned by extremely rich men who are part of the establishment. The economic fallout from brexit won't hurt any of them, and might suit the less ethical among them just fine.
You say you've "seen the light" but I'm minded to think you've been blinded by it.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
The "economic fallout from Brexit" is a prediction, not a fact. It may be that both the UK and the EU suffer terribly from Brexit, but I doubt it, because if that were to happen the EU would be more concerned. It may be that neither suffer very much at all, it'll be swings and roundabouts with world trade, even in a no-deal Brexit. My fear is that our government seems to favour the sort of deal where we suffer and they don't.AndrewJB wrote:The leave campaign was very good at fostering a 'backs to the wall' feeling among its supporters, but the reality is print media was (and is) very strongly behind brexit. When you add up the titles and consider their circulation reach, the world 'overwhelming' is apt:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-05-23-uk- ... ons-brexit#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... f99adc6525" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/strong-u ... e-tracker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That you believe otherwise suggests you're susceptible to (you might call it brainwashing, but that's extreme) advertising yourself. Bear in mind that many newspapers have been attacking the EU for decades before the referendum too.
The first link talks about how seventy percent of politicians quoted in the press in articles about the referendum were Tories (on either side of the campaign). In my opinion the other remain parties - the Greens, Labour, LibDems, and the nationalist parties all had more thoughtful, positive, and cogent arguments in favour of the EU than did the remain Tories (who as we know went with project fear). Had their voices been reported more widely, I think the result would have been different.
Lastly, the commonly held perception (and again another success for the leave's marketing team) was that voting leave was a chance for the common person to kick the establishment in the goolies. But the leaders of the leave campaign - Boris Johnson, Arron Banks, Nigel Farage, JRM, Michael Gove, IDS, etc are all members of the establishment. And further, all the newspapers that backed leave - the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Sun, the Express, are (or were) owned by extremely rich men who are part of the establishment. The economic fallout from brexit won't hurt any of them, and might suit the less ethical among them just fine.
You say you've "seen the light" but I'm minded to think you've been blinded by it.
But I think you overexaggerate the influence of the press. Brexit had the press onside - maybe. But Remain had the government and the BBC and probably social media too - facebook and twitter tend to follow what is trendy, and EU membership is trendy especially among the young.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
ahhhh, you guys.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Well, Leave had the government on its side as well. It just wasn't ours.dsr wrote:But I think you overexaggerate the influence of the press. Brexit had the press onside - maybe. But Remain had the government and the BBC and probably social media too - facebook and twitter tend to follow what is trendy, and EU membership is trendy especially among the young.
Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Because I can't see the future exactly, I'll amend it to 'likely economic fallout...'dsr wrote:The "economic fallout from Brexit" is a prediction, not a fact. It may be that both the UK and the EU suffer terribly from Brexit, but I doubt it, because if that were to happen the EU would be more concerned. It may be that neither suffer very much at all, it'll be swings and roundabouts with world trade, even in a no-deal Brexit. My fear is that our government seems to favour the sort of deal where we suffer and they don't.
But I think you overexaggerate the influence of the press. Brexit had the press onside - maybe. But Remain had the government and the BBC and probably social media too - facebook and twitter tend to follow what is trendy, and EU membership is trendy especially among the young.
The influence of the press was there for decades in producing anti-EU articles, news, and opinion pieces. There was never any balance in debate within the print media. Looking at the campaign dispassionately, the leave side ran a masterful campaign with the best slogan. It tapped into a bit of the zeitgeist. The government were hopeless, and again I think drove support away with their negativity. You say the BBC was behind remain, but they fulfilled their obligation to be unbiased by focusing on arguments for and against made by Conservatives, and largely ignored the arguments by other political parties. "Blue on blue" may have had more excitement to it, but it didn't inform the public. As I said earlier, the other parties had a far more compelling argument in favour of remain. With social media, I think it was fifty-fifty. Don't forget that leave ran personalised social media advertising to a small proportion of the population, and as Dominic Cummings said later, this swung the vote in favour of leave. Not sure how the EU is trendy with young people. Nearly thirty percent of them voted to leave out of those who voted. The ones I know (who voted remain) did so because they didn't want to lose the ability to easily live and work in other EU countries.
Out of curiosity, would you be for or against the right of UK citizens to retain EU citizenship as individuals were it on offer? This would give them a kind of dual nationality (perfectly legal in the UK), and those who wouldn't want it wouldn't have to take it up.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Why is what young people are in favour of described as ‘trendy’? Maybe young people didn’t want to put their immediate wellbeing and short term future prospects at risk.dsr wrote:The "economic fallout from Brexit" is a prediction, not a fact. It may be that both the UK and the EU suffer terribly from Brexit, but I doubt it, because if that were to happen the EU would be more concerned. It may be that neither suffer very much at all, it'll be swings and roundabouts with world trade, even in a no-deal Brexit. My fear is that our government seems to favour the sort of deal where we suffer and they don't.
But I think you overexaggerate the influence of the press. Brexit had the press onside - maybe. But Remain had the government and the BBC and probably social media too - facebook and twitter tend to follow what is trendy, and EU membership is trendy especially among the young.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
I'm hazarding a guess here and reckon DSR isn't on twitter.
He should be, God is on there and everything!
He should be, God is on there and everything!
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
I agree with the above, I like the chance to kick out our own politicians if they do that, rather than needing an EU umbrella. I wouldn’t lump corporation tax in with that personally, I consider that to be a legitimate way of luring business here, and often (as recently) it brings in more money than if the rate was higher (it served Ireland very well for a time). But I know from reading this board that we are both money people, and even people skilled in it often disagree on how tax rates affect the overall tax take, which shows how difficult the economy is to predict.aggi wrote:Fair enough. I'm of the view that I want my personal data protected and I'd prefer that if CCTV (or whatever else) can't be implemented properly with decent levels of security, disclosure, etc then it shouldn't be done at all rather than done in a half-assed manner.
One of my concerns post-Brexit is that it will become a race to the bottom in terms of things like worker's rights, corporation tax, food safety, data protection, health and safety, etc with deregulation in the interest of chasing the money and trying to bump-start the economy. It may not happen but there are plenty of rumblings that it's on the cards.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
The Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph & Star are all rabidly pro-brexit. I think it's fair to say that the traditional press on the whole backed Brexit.dsr wrote:But I think you overexaggerate the influence of the press. Brexit had the press onside - maybe. But Remain had the government and the BBC and probably social media too - facebook and twitter tend to follow what is trendy, and EU membership is trendy especially among the young.
As for social media being pro-Remain - did you hear about the Cambridge Analytica story? A large contributor to the Brexit vote was large scale social media bombardment of susceptible users with fake news about Turkey joining the EU etc.
BBC? You sure they are pro-remain? I mean, the likes of Humphreys, Robinson, Neill and Marr all seem fairly Brexity to me. Maybe CBeebies is pro-remain?
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
https://www.referendumanalysis.eu/eu-re ... -campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Bacchus wrote:The Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph & Star are all rabidly pro-brexit. I think it's fair to say that the traditional press on the whole backed Brexit.
As for social media being pro-Remain - did you hear about the Cambridge Analytica story? A large contributor to the Brexit vote was large scale social media bombardment of susceptible users with fake news about Turkey joining the EU etc.
BBC? You sure they are pro-remain? I mean, the likes of Humphreys, Robinson, Neill and Marr all seem fairly Brexity to me. Maybe CBeebies is pro-remain?
For the purpose of balance. Upon reading doesn’t seem that neutral whether people contributing within the article are bias, not sure but will research further.
Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Watching Question Time last night makes me think we are snowballing to another referendum.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Whether that is a good idea or not, the fact that we can't find our arse with both our hands in trying to sort this out isn't helping at all.
The ERG plans for an alternative to chequers were a case in point.
Taking away the fantasist element (which were bad enough) the fact that they'd just photocopied the actual EU WTO trade deals and not even bothered to change them from Euros suggests that they know its all a load of ********.
The fact that what was promised by leave before the referendum can't be carried out is completely hamstringing us.
The ERG plans for an alternative to chequers were a case in point.
Taking away the fantasist element (which were bad enough) the fact that they'd just photocopied the actual EU WTO trade deals and not even bothered to change them from Euros suggests that they know its all a load of ********.
The fact that what was promised by leave before the referendum can't be carried out is completely hamstringing us.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
But 60 million just want it to end so come next March 2019 we are out of EU.
Cannot be a vote to see if we stay or go, we leave 29th March unless 28 countries agree to extend our leaving date.
Cannot be a vote to see if we stay or go, we leave 29th March unless 28 countries agree to extend our leaving date.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
It's the actual Government that has photocopied the EU schedules, not the ERG.Lancasterclaret wrote:Whether that is a good idea or not, the fact that we can't find our arse with both our hands in trying to sort this out isn't helping at all.
The ERG plans for an alternative to chequers were a case in point.
Taking away the fantasist element (which were bad enough) the fact that they'd just photocopied the actual EU WTO trade deals and not even bothered to change them from Euros suggests that they know its all a load of ********.
The fact that what was promised by leave before the referendum can't be carried out is completely hamstringing us.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Its the ERG who presented it as their WTO vision.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Again you are wrong, and the tariffs being in Euro's has no bearing according to this.Lancasterclaret wrote:Its the ERG who presented it as their WTO vision.
https://twitter.com/CoppetainPU/status/ ... 0752590853" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Not much substance from ERG this week, and Daily Mail now turned against "hard" Brexit and backing Chequers plan. Apart from being an interesting development, it rather suggests that "hard" brexit is dead in the water, so it looks like it's either some variant on Chequers "proposal" or a "People's Vote" (IMO)
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
No, I'm not.
The ERG presented it as their WTO vision, and as they are very keen on it being in sterling (you'd have thought as they go into spasm when you mention the Euro) you would have thought one of them might have taken the time to do it properly.
You can call it irrelevant if you like, but as this their economic vision it should be in sterling if they want people to take it seriously.
The ERG presented it as their WTO vision, and as they are very keen on it being in sterling (you'd have thought as they go into spasm when you mention the Euro) you would have thought one of them might have taken the time to do it properly.
You can call it irrelevant if you like, but as this their economic vision it should be in sterling if they want people to take it seriously.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
I've no problems with chequers for now, it's all about leaving for me, once we've left we can revisit chequers and amend it.nil_desperandum wrote:Not much substance from ERG this week, and Daily Mail now turned against "hard" Brexit and backing Chequers plan. Apart from being an interesting development, it rather suggests that "hard" brexit is dead in the water, so it looks like it's either some variant on Chequers "proposal" or a "People's Vote" (IMO)
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Oh dear, you are embarrassing yourself now, i suggest you have a read of this.Lancasterclaret wrote:No, I'm not.
The ERG presented it as their WTO vision, and as they are very keen on it being in sterling (you'd have thought as they go into spasm when you mention the Euro) you would have thought one of them might have taken the time to do it properly.
You can call it irrelevant if you like, but as this their economic vision it should be in sterling if they want people to take it seriously.
https://tradebetablog.wordpress.com/201 ... as-uk-wto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Surprised to hear that Andy. I thought that most uber-Brexiteers thought that Chequers was worse than remain?claretandy wrote:I've no problems with chequers for now, it's all about leaving for me, once we've left we can revisit chequers and amend it.
Anyway - fair enough if that's now your view. It's certainly a big step forward from the absolute No Deal that some advocate.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Nothing is set in stone, there's nothing to stop a future Government trying to rejoin the EU.nil_desperandum wrote:Surprised to hear that Andy. I thought that most uber-Brexiteers thought that Chequers was worse than remain?
Anyway - fair enough if that's now your view. It's certainly a big step forward from the absolute No Deal that some advocate.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
So would that be a "2nd" referendum then?claretandy wrote:Nothing is set in stone, there's nothing to stop a future Government trying to rejoin the EU.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Wasn't the last one a 2nd one, I thought we had one decades ago to join the original set up?nil_desperandum wrote:So would that be a "2nd" referendum then?
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Nope, i'm talking about once we have left, you can't bind the hands of a future government, so if Labour want to rejoin, then they can put it in their manifesto and put it to the vote. In the same way if the Tories wanted a more looser arrangement, they could do the same.nil_desperandum wrote:So would that be a "2nd" referendum then?
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Again, see my previous post andy
Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
The "last one" was a 3rd referendum on the subject. Why not have a 4th?GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Wasn't the last one a 2nd one, I thought we had one decades ago to join the original set up?
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
It's a common trend.claretandy wrote:Again you are wrong, and the tariffs being in Euro's has no bearing according to this.
https://twitter.com/CoppetainPU/status/ ... 0752590853" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Can't imagine any government proposing to take us back into the EU or similar without putting it to the "people" tbh.claretandy wrote:Nope, i'm talking about once we have left, you can't bind the hands of a future government, so if Labour want to rejoin, then they can put it in their manifesto and put it to the vote. In the same way if the Tories wanted a more looser arrangement, they could do the same.
(This might be the 3rd or 4th vote or whatever and could be decades into the future, but the precedent (of referenda) has been set, so I can't see any govt. not putting it to the people, - unless it was in their manifesto to re-join and they had a landslide victory, which I can't see happening any time soon).
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Bit O/T, but Mark Carney is really annoying Brexiteers this morning.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
And there you go, another nail in the coffin for May and more chaos ahead
https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a ... 9c8613f4a1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a ... 9c8613f4a1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Look, it's ok to admit when you're wrong, I won't hold it against you.Lancasterclaret wrote:Again, see my previous post andy
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
More annoyed with remoaners misinterpreting what he said.Lancasterclaret wrote:Bit O/T, but Mark Carney is really annoying Brexiteers this morning.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Agreed.nil_desperandum wrote:Can't imagine any government proposing to take us back into the EU or similar without putting it to the "people" tbh.
(This might be the 3rd or 4th vote or whatever and could be decades into the future, but the precedent (of referenda) has been set, so I can't see any govt. not putting it to the people, - unless it was in their manifesto to re-join and they had a landslide victory, which I can't see happening any time soon).
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
We were put in by Ted Heath without referendum.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Wasn't the last one a 2nd one, I thought we had one decades ago to join the original set up?
Then a year later asked if we wanted to come out or stay.
At the time the top Labour men campaigned to come out. But that was when the Labour party was actually concerned with the plight of the British working class. They were rightly concerned about an organisation that they often referred to as a "club for bankers and big business"
Oh how times have changed.
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Paywall?Lancasterclaret wrote:And there you go, another nail in the coffin for May and more chaos ahead
https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a ... 9c8613f4a1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Oh, basically labour won't vote for the current Brexit deal.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
The Electoral Commission not covering themselves in glory,https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45519676 even Lord Adonis thinks they are incompetent.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Bout time we just called the whole thing off. I work in projects and if part way through we realise what we are going to deliver isn't anything like what we first thought and will not give us the benefits we originally anticipated then we close it down and move onto to something better no matter what emotional attachment some people might have to it.
Sure we might get a few snowflakes who get all upset and bleat about it for a bit but it is now obvious the whole thing is a shambles and is best to draw a line under it and sack it off
Sure we might get a few snowflakes who get all upset and bleat about it for a bit but it is now obvious the whole thing is a shambles and is best to draw a line under it and sack it off
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
Many people on both sides would agree,if the UK Government(they won't BTW) changed policy and wanted to remain in the EU,how do we achieve this and under what terms,as far as the EU are concerned we voted to leave,so lost our veto,rebate and any other benefits as an existing member state.Devils_Advocate wrote:Bout time we just called the whole thing off. I work in projects and if part way through we realise what we are going to deliver isn't anything like what we first thought and will not give us the benefits we originally anticipated then we close it down and move onto to something better no matter what emotional attachment some people might have to it.
Sure we might get a few snowflakes who get all upset and bleat about it for a bit but it is now obvious the whole thing is a shambles and is best to draw a line under it and sack it off
If the Government now turned round and said we are not leaving after all,would this require Parliament to reverse the Article 50 vote,legal opinion is divided on this point it seems,plus does Parliament have the numbers to win such a vote should one come to pass,in theory there should be enough remainers/soft brexitters to carry any potential vote,but in practice many MP'S especially Labour MP'S in northern heartland brexit constituencies will be fearing getting ousted at the next General Election,hence why so many voted to trigger Article 50 in the first place.
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Re: 2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain
I don't think there's any firm legal evidence to support this, or that this is the Eu's position. We haven't left and are still an EU state, so there's no reason why we shouldn't remain exactly as we are.tiger76 wrote:Many people on both sides would agree,if the UK Government(they won't BTW) changed policy and wanted to remain in the EU,how do we achieve this and under what terms,as far as the EU are concerned we voted to leave,so lost our veto,rebate and any other benefits as an existing member state.
.
In any case, even if there was a legal precedent for this happening, (which of course there isn't), the EU would be very happy for us to just remain as we are, because a no deal is v damaging to both sides. If we were to consider remaining, the EU would almost certainly be happy with the outcome and would be unlikely to risk pushing us into a "no deal" by attaching "nasty" terms.