2.7 Million Brexiteers Have Changed to Remain

Chip Harrison · Post by **Chip Harrison** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:07 am

The second referendum is coming whether we like it or not.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:09 am

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:10 am

Source?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:12 am

They rung me up this morning, changed back again.

False alarm. As you were.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:17 am

I very much doubt it.

The whole mess has gone to far now.
I didn’t vote for Brexit but I do think we could have done ok with competent people in charge.
Sadly we have a grotesque group of individuals running the country who are only in it for themselves and a slightly less grotesque group of individuals in the opposition party who should be holding to them account but are too busy fighting between themselves.
A sorry mess all round.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:23 am

...and 2.7 million remainders now want out.

My personal opinion is that the past 18months or so has debated the detail that we all needed before we could have had an opinion on the EU that was accurate enough to enable the populace to make an informed decision. I would change my vote, I was on the fence as it was but I have most certainly gone fully the other way now.

A second referendum may be the only valid solution, and it should only be feared by those who don’t want true democracy.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:25 am

All I'll say is that the Mayor of Amity in Jaws is still the Mayor of Amity in Jaws II. If you don't vote, look at what happens.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:25 am

Chip Harrison wrote:The second referendum is coming whether we like it or not.

I guess because you have said it, it must be true, you being such an impeccable source and all that. Or maybe it's just a slow day at the office.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:27 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:All I'll say is that the Mayor of Amity in Jaws is still the Mayor of Amity in Jaws II. If you don't vote, look at what happens.

Off topic, but I listened to the Jaws audiobook on bbc radio 4 xtra the other day, I didn’t realise it was quite different from the film.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:30 am

Kids watched it for the first time yesterday, they loved it!

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:33 am

The OP has mentioned a Best For Britain fantasy that their leader Eloise Todd will present at Parliament today or tomorrow.

It's obviously total hogwash.

At best the fear and pessimism that is being peddled, arguably more intensive than before the referendum, has resulted in a 50:50 polling position or a very very slight Remain lead, but similarly an EU crisis or calm waters for a while would reverse polling back the other way.

Using it to overturn the result or leave us half in half out would be a disaster for Britain, it would result in hate, bitterness and long standing disengagement in things like voting, paying taxes, observing certain laws etc. For better to leave fully but with a free trade deal, Remainers keep the moral high ground, then we move on and former Remainers can lobby to build closer links in some areas again. Yes, some industries may suffer a bit (cars) but some would gain (farming and fishing) and even if this results in a temporary dip to GDP, we have to do it, that's what the first referendum meant.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:41 am

The shark in Jaws is actually more realistic than Crosspools Brexit vision.

ebby · Post by **ebby** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:42 am

Not according to Nigel Farage who I went to listen to on Sunday evening here in Perth.
Spoke very well for 50 minutes without blinking.
Very balanced speech. Not very complementary about Mrs May or the opposition Labour leader.....
Said Brexit etc is all about Economics and the UK being able to rule its own destiny.
We did have to run the gauntlet of the social left - anarchists etc (few on her also I feel) to get in.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:46 am

I'd trust the shark in Jaws before I trusted Nigel Farage on anything.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:46 am

Taffy on the wing wrote:But can you dance better than Theresa May?
As for running the country better....simple..Just elect Jeremy Corbyn!
OH JEREMY CORBYN, OH JEREMY CORBYN!

Replying to Taffy's comment to me on this thread rather than the Dyche thread, it's more relevant.

Question 1 - NO!

Point 2 - Yes, if the Tories sell us down the river as is currently likely, I intend to.

I'm currently reading "a very British coup" the excellent fictional novel from 30 years ago about a hard left PM being shafted by the establishment. The more I read the more I think there would be some truth in it, incredibly. The power that the establishment has in that novel is unbelievable and nowadays, with big data, they would have more. The real Britain needs an establishment shake up. I just wish the shaker was someone like Perkins in the book (decent) not an anti-semite like Corbyn, but hey-ho.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:48 am

The question should be how many brexiters now actually want to remain or how many of them simply don’t believe we have the leaders who can actually manage the exit and therefore will reluctantly agree to remain

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:50 am

We do need more people who think shouting "Brexit means Brexit" will solve everything to be fair.

If you ignore reality, then nothing bad ever happens, right?

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:52 am

I think we're going to need a bigger vote.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:53 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:The shark in Jaws is actually more realistic than Crosspools Brexit vision.

That's just lazily accepting everything the establishment throw at you Lancs. Why would a Canada Plus FTA be unrealistic (I am not a fan of No Deal though it is better than Chequers)? The only thing unrealistic is thinking that the EU intend to offer us anything at all. I would accept we are entwined in many ways to the EU but if that means we are unable to leave that proves more than ever our loss of independence and sovereignty.

I'm getting fed up with both Britain and the Clarets at the moment. I want forward thinking positivity, going full tilt for everything we can, not being subservient to anyone. We will fall short at times, but the pleasure is in trying. That's the reason I stopped being an employee a decade ago. The EU is imploding because they have gone too far. We need to set out a brave new vision of an independent, sovereign big state with fully controlled but accessible borders, decency, tolerance, positivity, hope and ambition.

The problem is, this breed of politicians born in the shadow of the EU are incapable of doing it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:58 am

I've decided that you are Quint

Reality is a big shark and its going to bite you in half.

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:00 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Yes, some industries may suffer a bit (cars) but some would gain (farming and fishing) and even if this results in a temporary dip to GDP, we have to do it, that's what the first referendum meant.

Just to give your remarks some perspective 180,000 people are employed directly by the automotive manufacturing industry as opposed to 10,000 in the fishing industry in the UK.

As for Agriculture aren't they one of the biggest recipients of EU funding and 45% of workers they employ are from the EU so how will they "gain"?
Isn't the idea that we can import cheaper stuff from all over the globe once we leave, how will that benefit farmers?

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:50 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Off topic, but I listened to the Jaws audiobook on bbc radio 4 xtra the other day, I didn’t realise it was quite different from the film.

Did they need an even bigger boat?

Rammy1968 · Post by **Rammy1968** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:55 am

Not more pointless Brexit discussions boring...................

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:00 am

Yup

But again, what exactly goes through your mind when you click on a thread that says "2.7 million Brexiteers have changed to remain" and wonder what it is about?

This whole Brexit thing is ripping the country apart.

What sums it up for me is that on the day of the Aberdeen game i posted a thread on the bridge collapse on the M6 totally blocking it. Some absolute weapon of a Brexiteer wouldn't believe me, stating my views on brexit as a reason.

You want to vote the same way as people who think like that?

Feel free

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:06 am

With respect LC a lot of the posters who are interested in the Brexit discussions do tend to bring Brexit up on some of the football threads that are nothing to do with politics/brexit, I think this leads to people coming onto threads such as this telling others how boring they find it.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:07 am

I love all the Brexit threads on here, because it gives all the Lefties on here a chance to do a bit of Tory bashing. Corbyn, Corbyn, rah rah rah!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:11 am

I'm sticking to compare Brexit to Jaws from now on to be honest.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:12 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I've decided that you are Quint

Reality is a big shark and its going to bite you in half.

That's pandering to the Brexiteer stereotype again Lancs. Tough, uncouth, not a team player - anyway, there's no way I can drink as much as Quint

.

Like most Brexiteers, I am Hooper.

A calculated risk taker, curious, exploring, friendly and positive.

You are Peter Benchley. In his novel (aka Project Fear), Hooper got eaten in the shark cage

. In the film (aka the Real Brexit) Hooper paddled safely off to new shores and lived happily ever after

.

Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies......

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:14 am

Yeah, he also shagged Mrs Brody as well.

Shafting someone you are supposed to help.......

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:15 am

Beat me to it, Lancaster.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:19 am

ClaretLoup wrote:Just to give your remarks some perspective 180,000 people are employed directly by the automotive manufacturing industry as opposed to 10,000 in the fishing industry in the UK.

As for Agriculture aren't they one of the biggest recipients of EU funding and 45% of workers they employ are from the EU so how will they "gain"?
Isn't the idea that we can import cheaper stuff from all over the globe once we leave, how will that benefit farmers?

There is plenty we can do to help the car industry (corporation tax cuts being one if the EU play hardball). The reality is that the industry may stumble I do accept, but not so much as to turn the entire Brexit debate on it's head (a bit like N Ireland).

As for farming, I suspect I know a lot more about this than you do. My wife's business is in farming and her whole family has been involved in it, one or two own huge farms.

Over decades we have had environment damage due to the Common Agricultural Policy. Young farmers are prevented from entering the market. Land capitalisation is rife. Farmers often only get a marginal income unrelated to the public benefits they deliver. Migrant labour can still happen, but in a managed way. Like all industries, the farming union NFU is full of vested interests, so it is hard to get at the truth, but trust me, there is a majority vote in farming for Brexit, and for very good reason.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:23 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yeah, he also shagged Mrs Brody as well.

Shafting someone you are supposed to help.......

He only got his leg up because the establishment forced him to (in this case, the publisher).

Benchley originally wrote it as Brody and his wife messing around after a few beers.

Fake news even in the 1970s.....

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:31 am

Foulthrow wrote:Did they need an even bigger boat?

You know what, I can’t remember! Listen to it, it’s on Radio 4 Xtra on catch-up - 2and a half hours of riviting listening, well worth it. I played it on the way home on Sunday from Burnley to home after the game.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:37 am

Jaws is a timeless classic, loved by all ages.

Brexit on the other hand......

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:41 am

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:44 am

No ones ever asked me. If they do I'll say I voted remain but now want WTO.

It'll be Gospel truth then.. !

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:53 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Off topic, but I listened to the Jaws audiobook on bbc radio 4 xtra the other day, I didn’t realise it was quite different from the film.

Yes the book is written from the point of view of the shark.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:55 am

Not sure that would be much fun

Page1 of Jaws

"SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD! SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD SMELL OF FOOD FOOD!

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:08 pm

"Sometimes that shark, he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. Y'know the thing about a shark, he's got... lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes."

Dunno if this is from Jaws or someone describing Theresa May

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:08 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:There is plenty we can do to help the car industry (corporation tax cuts being one if the EU play hardball).

Interestingly Japanese firms are talking about leaving the UK if corporation tax cuts are put in place as they are worried about the UK being classed as a tax haven by the Japanese authorities (in which case they'll have to pay more tax in Japan).

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:15 pm

We can all see we are about to go off a cliff. But rather than have an informed vote (now we have a clearer picture) you all want to carry on and go off the cliff.

To those of you that vote leave because you think it will mean fewer foreigners coming to live here....you are wrong. You will not hold back the inevitable global population movement.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:25 pm

Informed vote? Please inform me what the terms for cancellation of our resignation would be. There's nothing written down about how we would get back in, but bearing mind the EU's attitude to screwing us on the deal when they think they have us over a barrel, what do you think their attitude would be when they know they have us over a barrel?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:30 pm

dsr wrote:Informed vote? Please inform me what the terms for cancellation of our resignation would be. There's nothing written down about how we would get back in, but bearing mind the EU's attitude to screwing us on the deal when they think they have us over a barrel, what do you think their attitude would be when they know they have us over a barrel?

I may well be wrong on this (I'm sure someone will be able to point to a reliable source either way) but I'm pretty sure the concensus is that we could withdraw A50 without requiring any agreement from the EU27. Legally we could stay as we are. I accept that politically it might more difficult.

What would require agreement from the EU27 is an extension of the A50 interim period (which would surely be the only other remotely viable option at this stage.)

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:31 pm

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:32 pm

If there was another vote and Remain won with a sizable majority - what's the chances of the UK having another EU referendum in 5 or 10 years time? All you need is a feckless Tory leader running scared of UKIP and the handful of nihilists nutters on his/her own backbench.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:38 pm

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:38 pm

ClaretLoup wrote:Just to give your remarks some perspective 180,000 people are employed directly by the automotive manufacturing industry as opposed to 10,000 in the fishing industry in the UK.

As for Agriculture aren't they one of the biggest recipients of EU funding and 45% of workers they employ are from the EU so how will they "gain"?
Isn't the idea that we can import cheaper stuff from all over the globe once we leave, how will that benefit farmers?

And 57k people are employed in telesales but it doesn't stop many people wanting cold calling stopped.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:50 pm

aggi wrote:Interestingly Japanese firms are talking about leaving the UK if corporation tax cuts are put in place as they are worried about the UK being classed as a tax haven by the Japanese authorities (in which case they'll have to pay more tax in Japan).

The Tax Haven Counter Measure Law? That wouldn’t affect companies in the U.K. as they have the “Economic Logic “ exemption and evidence that the management, control and governance is in the U.K. and that transactions with related parties are less than 50% of all transactions

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:53 pm

If it be your will wrote:I want to know the answer to this, too. I've researched it and it's still not clear. There is a general view that you're right, but it's not certain. This might be how it all ends: the UK unceremoniously withdrawing from A50.

Laughably, if this is so we wouldn't even need to ask for an extension, we could just withdraw A50 and invoke again it the next day. That would give us a 2 year extension. We could do it 5 or 6 times, if we wanted.

Like many legal arguments it depends who you get your advice from!!

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yup

But again, what exactly goes through your mind when you click on a thread that says "2.7 million Brexiteers have changed to remain" and wonder what it is about?

What exactly goes through someone's mind when they think "hey look, a football discussion message board, what better place to start yet another thread on Brexit"?