Have we missed a huge opportunity ?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:12 pm

Yes I know it is early in the season and yes I know we probably wont be relegated but has Burnley FC missed a great opportunity. During the last closed season we had the chance to dramatically improve our squad and firmly cement our place in the Premier League. Sadly the club was unable to recruit a high enough quality of players and it would appear we could be in for a long hard season battling relegation.

So why could we not attract the best players ?

We were qualified for Europe coming off a 7th place finish last season. We have a widely respected and admired Manager. We have a stunning state of the art Training Facility. We are financially stable with a war chest full of cash. So why could we not attract the right players ?

Wages are clearly an issue but I dont believe they are the main reason. Location,location,location I believe plays a huge part in `turning players off `signing for Burnley. As a comparison ( geographically ) lets compare the locations of Burnley, Fulham and Bournemouth. If you were a footballer earning a couple of million a year where would you want to base your family ? I believe that most of our players live in the Cheshire area and travel daily to Barnfield for training. Nice place to live but not a great journey every day.

So lets think outside the box. What if we had built a `Barnfield` in Cheshire or similar ? Would that help ? I believe it would. Built in the right area close to desirable homes and offering an easy commute for players. Players would then only travel to Turf Moor on match days. Now we suddenly become an upmarket and more desirable club to play for. Yes we might have to slightly increase our budget but not greatly. When you earn what todays premier league players earn, where you live is a big part of where you play.

Sadly we have to acknowledge that Burnley as a town cannot compete with other parts of the UK and obviously we cannot relocate our club elsewhere. But I can see no negative to moving the training ground. Obviously this will not happen having spent serious money on Barnfield but with hindsight I wish it had.

No doubt there will be many supporters ( especially those who visit Barnfield ) that will disagree with me but it would not change the fundamentals of who we are. Hopefully just make us more attractive to better players.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Assuming your post is serious, which I find hard to believe, I don't think you're going to get much support for your 'outside the box' thinking.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:18 pm

Yes -

We over achieved last year but it put us in a position to really push on get some quality players through the door and improve again. We may not have finished as high as seventh again but we could have still progressed the squad and maybe got furthur in Europe. Instead we have stood still got unfortunate with injury's and until we get Defour and Brady back, we are much weaker than this time last season. We will still stop up but its a shame we never capitalized on last years amazing season.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:38 pm

Yes we have missed a trick, in as much as we had the opportunity to sell ourselves as a chance to play in Europe, rather than as perennial relegation candidates. The location thing is a red herring. It’s never stopped the Manchester clubs attracting players, or even the likes of Blackburn or Bolton in the past. We are only 20 miles from Manchester for players who want the bright lights, and there are some lovely places to live in the surrounding areas.

Money - and consistently being 2 years behind in our judgement of what represents value in the transfer market - is the overwhelming reason why we consistently fail to land players.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:48 pm

Wages is probably the issue in the main.

It doesn't matter where a club is located, or even where your training ground is, if you aren't paying enough they won't come.

I've seen ideas mooted that clubs in the north east should locate their training grounds nearer to London to help attract players etc.

Then you'd have to consider where the youth facilities are etc.
It's a bit more complicated then just dumping the training ground somewhere..

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:53 pm

Do people of Burnley genuinely believe the media hype that it is a sh!thole and a horrible place to live? Genuine question.

As someone who has "adopted" Burnley as my team, as a southerner who moved to the area for work in the 90's and since left and gone back south almost 10 years ago, as someone who take's their kids to Turf Moor and hails the history of the club and helps them understand the importance of who Burnley Football Club are I say take a long hard look at yourself if you really think the club missed a trick by relocating Barnfield elsewhere. Burnley has it's issues, many of them - but these issues are fairly localised in certain parts of the town. There is so much more to East Lancashire and Burnley that many of the natives appreciate, so many places of interest and natural beauty on your doorstep, and such great nightlife within a bus or taxi ride if you so wish.

Seriously, I currently live in (near) Milton Keynes and that is also a place misunderstood by the media and UK population - especially if you have never lived here, and yet I spend some of my days yearning to be back in East Lancashire with a different pace of life (if only work and personal circumstances permitted it).

Folk of Burnley, you live in a wonderful place and dont let anyone tell you differently.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:55 pm

FCBurnley wrote: Now we suddenly become an upmarket and more desirable club to play for.

Just because you open a Lidl in Knightsbridge doesn't turn it into Fortnum and Mason.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:57 pm

Let's move the ground to the leafy Cheshire countryside too. We could even change our name to Alderley Edge FC.

They'll be queuing up to sign for us.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:00 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Do people of Burnley genuinely believe the media hype that it is a sh!thole and a horrible place to live? Genuine question.

As someone who has "adopted" Burnley as my team, as a southerner who moved to the area for work in the 90's and since left and gone back south almost 10 years ago, as someone who take's their kids to Turf Moor and hails the history of the club and helps them understand the importance of who Burnley Football Club are I say take a long hard look at yourself if you really think the club missed a trick by relocating Barnfield elsewhere. Burnley has it's issues, many of them - but these issues are fairly localised in certain parts of the town. There is so much more to East Lancashire and Burnley that many of the natives appreciate, so many places of interest and natural beauty on your doorstep, and such great nightlife within a bus or taxi ride if you so wish.

Seriously, I currently live in (near) Milton Keynes and that is also a place misunderstood by the media and UK population - especially if you have never lived here, and yet I spend some of my days yearning to be back in East Lancashire with a different pace of life (if only work and personal circumstances permitted it).

Folk of Burnley, you live in a wonderful place and dont let anyone tell you differently.

agree. I doubt there are many more beautiful spots than the ribble valley. I often walk round the bolton abbey area which is relatively local. almost 50 percent of people I talk to are southerners marvelling at the beauty of the area.
our players wont be living in stoneyhome or the stoops. Mr Dyche seems fairly happy in whalley. We have much more to offer than many clubs.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:07 pm

scouseclaret wrote:Money - and consistently being 2 years behind in our judgement of what represents value in the transfer market - is the overwhelming reason why we consistently fail to land players.

Nail on the head

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:30 pm

As beautiful as parts of East Lancashire are, I don’t think a 21 year old multi millionaire would have too much interest in the local scenery.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:43 pm

I wonder why Messi hasn't signed for Stockport then?

Seriously, I don't think we go for that sort of player who craves the London bright lights or the pedigree of who can demand where they live.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:45 pm

The training ground is top notch and adjacent to National Trust land and property. A wonderful setting. Not an issue for a professional footballer.

The transfer business is very complex. We have come up with a very decent Championship side. We have evolved that by signing old pros and the best the Championship has to offer.

Now, the Championship also has billionaire owners at some clubs....the ones with the best players.

The relegated clubs can be raided, usually at a price, nowadays.

In the past, we have plucked and polished, with a view to a mark up. This last market saw us also chase Jay Rodriguez...A largely finished article. His value will deteriorate, not accumulate. WBA did not have to sell, so the price was one they thought was right, plus a wee premium payment. Our Board obviously negotiated to their perceived maximum value over a 4 year deal. £18m. They would not partly the, 'We don't need to sale' premium...£2m. However, they also failed to invoke the, 'We need to buy' premium too!

It was time to adjust the policy slightly and they failed to keep up with the market and our need.

For £2m over 4 years....£500,000 per annum, we would have had Jay Rodriguez to play and score against Olympiakos. That fee would have been repaid already. We would be in the group stage of Europa. He is that much more equipped than the others.

The Board cost us deal and let the manager down . No doubt that will be resolved in January. Hope it is not too late.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:46 pm

so many places within 90 minutes

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/#/se ... t=53.83329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:48 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Yes I know it is early in the season and yes I know we probably wont be relegated but has Burnley FC missed a great opportunity. During the last closed season we had the chance to dramatically improve our squad and firmly cement our place in the Premier League. Sadly the club was unable to recruit a high enough quality of players and it would appear we could be in for a long hard season battling relegation.

So why could we not attract the best players ?

We were qualified for Europe coming off a 7th place finish last season. We have a widely respected and admired Manager. We have a stunning state of the art Training Facility. We are financially stable with a war chest full of cash. So why could we not attract the right players ?

Wages are clearly an issue but I dont believe they are the main reason. Location,location,location I believe plays a huge part in `turning players off `signing for Burnley. As a comparison ( geographically ) lets compare the locations of Burnley, Fulham and Bournemouth. If you were a footballer earning a couple of million a year where would you want to base your family ? I believe that most of our players live in the Cheshire area and travel daily to Barnfield for training. Nice place to live but not a great journey every day.

So lets think outside the box. What if we had built a `Barnfield` in Cheshire or similar ? Would that help ? I believe it would. Built in the right area close to desirable homes and offering an easy commute for players. Players would then only travel to Turf Moor on match days. Now we suddenly become an upmarket and more desirable club to play for. Yes we might have to slightly increase our budget but not greatly. When you earn what todays premier league players earn, where you live is a big part of where you play.

Sadly we have to acknowledge that Burnley as a town cannot compete with other parts of the UK and obviously we cannot relocate our club elsewhere. But I can see no negative to moving the training ground. Obviously this will not happen having spent serious money on Barnfield but with hindsight I wish it had.

No doubt there will be many supporters ( especially those who visit Barnfield ) that will disagree with me but it would not change the fundamentals of who we are. Hopefully just make us more attractive to better players.

I would do quite the opposite and move the training ground closer to Turf Moor. I would move the Training Ground onto the cricket ground next door.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:02 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:so many places within 90 minutes

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/#/se ... t=53.83329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I lived in Burnley and worked in various places such as Bradford, Stockport and Huddersfield and the daily commute was awful.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:02 pm

IanMcL wrote:The training ground is top notch and adjacent to National Trust land and property. A wonderful setting. Not an issue for a professional footballer.

The transfer business is very complex. We have come up with a very decent Championship side. We have evolved that by signing old pros and the best the Championship has to offer.

Now, the Championship also has billionaire owners at some clubs....the ones with the best players.

The relegated clubs can be raided, usually at a price, nowadays.

In the past, we have plucked and polished, with a view to a mark up. This last market saw us also chase Jay Rodriguez...A largely finished article. His value will deteriorate, not accumulate. WBA did not have to sell, so the price was one they thought was right, plus a wee premium payment. Our Board obviously negotiated to their perceived maximum value over a 4 year deal. £18m. They would not partly the, 'We don't need to sale' premium...£2m. However, they also failed to invoke the, 'We need to buy' premium too!

It was time to adjust the policy slightly and they failed to keep up with the market and our need.

For £2m over 4 years....£500,000 per annum, we would have had Jay Rodriguez to play and score against Olympiakos. That fee would have been repaid already. We would be in the group stage of Europa. He is that much more equipped than the others.

The Board cost us deal and let the manager down . No doubt that will be resolved in January. Hope it is not too late.

So the difference between us getting past Olympiakos or not was Jay Rodriguez? Really?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:05 pm

FCBurnley wrote:I lived in Burnley and worked in various places such as Bradford, Stockport and Huddersfield and the daily commute was awful.

I too lived in Burnley and commuted to Leeds; Preston; Manchester and Liverpool for work over a 15 year period - I had no issues and enjoyed the drives personally, granted I had a degree of flexibility to when I could travel so I could avoid "rush hour", but still, not an issue for me.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:07 pm

IanMcL wrote:The training ground is top notch and adjacent to National Trust land and property. A wonderful setting. Not an issue for a professional footballer.

The transfer business is very complex. We have come up with a very decent Championship side. We have evolved that by signing old pros and the best the Championship has to offer.

Now, the Championship also has billionaire owners at some clubs....the ones with the best players.

The relegated clubs can be raided, usually at a price, nowadays.

In the past, we have plucked and polished, with a view to a mark up. This last market saw us also chase Jay Rodriguez...A largely finished article. His value will deteriorate, not accumulate. WBA did not have to sell, so the price was one they thought was right, plus a wee premium payment. Our Board obviously negotiated to their perceived maximum value over a 4 year deal. £18m. They would not partly the, 'We don't need to sale' premium...£2m. However, they also failed to invoke the, 'We need to buy' premium too!

It was time to adjust the policy slightly and they failed to keep up with the market and our need.

For £2m over 4 years....£500,000 per annum, we would have had Jay Rodriguez to play and score against Olympiakos. That fee would have been repaid already. We would be in the group stage of Europa. He is that much more equipped than the others.

The Board cost us deal and let the manager down . No doubt that will be resolved in January. Hope it is not too late.

I totally agree with the bulk of your reply . However would the players who signed for Fulham in the last window have signed for us (assuming the salary was the same ) ??

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:14 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote:Yes -

We over achieved last year but it put us in a position to really push on get some quality players through the door and improve again. We may not have finished as high as seventh again but we could have still progressed the squad and maybe got furthur in Europe. Instead we have stood still got unfortunate with injury's and until we get Defour and Brady back, we are much weaker than this time last season. We will still stop up but its a shame we never capitalized on last years amazing season.

You appear adamant that 'we will stop up'. What is it that gives you the supposed confidence to say that? We've had a woeful start, we don't look like scoring but do look like conceding. Just wondering who the teams are where we are going to reverse this trend,one that has been going on for more than just the 4 games so far.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:You appear adamant that 'we will stop up'. What is it that gives you the supposed confidence to say that? We've had a woeful start, we don't look like scoring but do look like conceding. Just wondering who the teams are where we are going to reverse this trend,one that has been going on for more than just the 4 games so far.

Think when all the squad is fit and the manger we have the team is too good. Hopefully get this team out soon

Hart/Heaton
Lowton Tarks Gibson/Mee Ward/Taylor

JBG Defour Cork Brady

Vydra
Barnes/Wood/Vokes

That will keep us

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:09 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote:Think when all the squad is fit and the manger we have the team is too good. Hopefully get this team out soon

Hart/Heaton
Lowton Tarks Gibson/Mee Ward/Taylor

JBG Defour Cork Brady

Vydra
Barnes/Wood/Vokes

That will keep us

Hope you are right,of course but the return of injured players isn't a definite. Neither is the goal scoring potential of those forward players. Anyway, might be worth a return to this thread/discussion in a couple of months time affording an opportunity for improvement within the team. Not convinced there will be,personally but we'll see.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:12 pm

Rileybobs wrote:So the difference between us getting past Olympiakos or not was Jay Rodriguez? Really?

I think he means a striker that wouldnt miss 3 open goals or thereabouts....

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:15 pm

Agree with OP, think we should have strengthened a lot better than we have, but you need to have targets in mind to get them in which has been covered on numerous other threads....

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:04 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:I think he means a striker that wouldnt miss 3 open goals or thereabouts....

I find it extremely fanciful, bordering on delusional to think that Rodriguez would have turned that tie by three goals. Vokes missed a couple of good chances which he usually would bury, but he is probably our only player who gets on the end of those chances. Neither Barnes or Wood attack crosses as well as Vokes and neither does Rodriguez. Interested to hear which were the 3 open goals though?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:15 pm

Spaceman · Post by **Spaceman** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:50 pm

I don’t think it’s geography , Leicester ain’t pretty but has the bucks , Same for Wolves. It all about the ching ching.
I’m thinking that we seem to only look for players from a narrow geographical area , maybe it’s time to look further , Europe, South America . Broaden the scouting network .

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:35 pm

My biggest concern is the capability of our scouting and recruitment teams. Can we identify key players abroad. Defour has been sensational despite recent injuries but the two guys we got in the Championship-so good I have forgotton their names, were duly sent back to Europe. Neither were cheap. The PL does not stand still. Two of the clubs we have played this year-Fulham and Watford (who I both fancied to be relegation candidates)both clinically beat us. They have bought in overseas players with power and athleticism and not spent a fortune individually. Our midfield are industrious but Cork and Westwood are simply lightweight in todays PL, and are being bullied -aerially and on the ground. Boy do we miss Joey in that part of the field,

We also seem to lack someone that can "sell the club" to a new player. Suspect SD has huge credibility but that's not his prime role. In fact it surprises me we got Cork and Hendrick and a few others over the line

When we identify the right player we procrastinate for weeks, not willing to pay the price. I understand that Ings is not welcome back at the club, but I have a feeling he could be the buy of the season. His appetite and movement has been first class and he is something none of our strikers are -a NATURAL POACHER . I have a feeling he will keep the Saints up. I am also convinced Jay Rodriguez would have had the same impact that Ings will have with the Saints With the right mentality and will (and bid)we would surely have sealed the move. Suspect in Jan WBA will want another £5m plus knowing we are desperate

And then when we get someone good we don't play them for months. The Wolves game is crying out for Gibson to start (no other PL team would start with Mee after his displays this year) and Vydra should start as part of two strikers. We were pathetic in this department v United. And you know what- I can just see the team sheet now v Wolves as unchanged

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:43 pm

warksclaret wrote:
And then when we get someone good we don't play them for months. The Wolves game is crying out for Gibson to start (no other PL team would start with Mee after his displays this year) and Vydra should start as part of two strikers. We were pathetic in this department v United. And you know what- I can just see the team sheet now v Wolves as unchanged

Absolutely agree with this. Will be interesting to see what line-up he goes with at Wolves.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:58 pm

warksclaret wrote:My biggest concern is the capability of our scouting and recruitment teams. Can we identify key players abroad. Defour has been sensational despite recent injuries but the two guys we got in the Championship-so good I have forgotton their names, were duly sent back to Europe. Neither were cheap. The PL does not stand still. Two of the clubs we have played this year-Fulham and Watford (who I both fancied to be relegation candidates)both clinically beat us. They have bought in overseas players with power and athleticism and not spent a fortune individually. Our midfield are industrious but Cork and Westwood are simply lightweight in todays PL, and are being bullied -aerially and on the ground. Boy do we miss Joey in that part of the field,

We also seem to lack someone that can "sell the club" to a new player. Suspect SD has huge credibility but that's not his prime role. In fact it surprises me we got Cork and Hendrick and a few others over the line

When we identify the right player we procrastinate for weeks, not willing to pay the price. I understand that Ings is not welcome back at the club, but I have a feeling he could be the buy of the season. His appetite and movement has been first class and he is something none of our strikers are -a NATURAL POACHER . I have a feeling he will keep the Saints up. I am also convinced Jay Rodriguez would have had the same impact that Ings will have with the Saints With the right mentality and will (and bid)we would surely have sealed the move. Suspect in Jan WBA will want another £5m plus knowing we are desperate

And then when we get someone good we don't play them for months. The Wolves game is crying out for Gibson to start (no other PL team would start with Mee after his displays this year) and Vydra should start as part of two strikers. We were pathetic in this department v United. And you know what- I can just see the team sheet now v Wolves as unchanged

So you think the PL has moved on so much in the last twelve months that Cork & Westwood who were brilliant for us last season are no longer good enough?

Are the teams that we played against previously so different? Watford have lost Richarlison and looking at the teams when we beat them at Vicarage road look to have a very similar line-up. So I can't see how they've suddenly become far quicker and more athletic. In addition, we had plenty of chances in the first half recently to be in the lead so we were hardly being overpowered.

Also, you'd be happy to have Ings back despite him being a bad influence within the club? Or Jay-Rod that no other club showed the slightest interest in signing?

Shappie · Post by **Shappie** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:13 pm

Location does have a bit to do with things.

Name dropping here but I know Shaka Hislop had to pay over £1m to buy out his contract at Newcastle because his wife didn’t like the area. She wanted to live in London.

He went to West Ham with Harry Refnapp then followed him to Portsmouth, but commuted from London. (In his Maserati)!

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:25 pm

The main issue is wages. Big contracts with ridiculous wages are unsustainable if we get relegated and don't have a benefactor. That's pretty much it. The training ground is superb and in a great location. Most of the players live in South Manchester and Cheshire as it is.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:28 pm

Don't think we can blame all our problems in the transfer market on the board. If Dyche refuses to sign anyone who is either non British, or playing abroad then we're kind of operating with one hand tied behind our back compared to our rivals.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:05 pm

Spijed I do believe the PL has moved on. Everton, Liverpool, Brighton, Bournemouth, Watford to name a few are noticeably stronger-some of it through new signings, but also in the way they have developed players. I did not say Cork and Westwood were not good enough-you have implied that I did. Cork has been an excellent signing but is clearly shattered. Westwood was brought in as cover-give him his due he took his chance in the latter part of last year. Very tidy and keeps possession, but if you read my post you will see I implied they missed Joey who would absolutely fight for every ball and header. He made his presence felt. Last week we played against Fellini, Matic, Pogba, Lindgard. Who did we have-McNeil, Lennon, Cork and Westwood. There was only ever going to be only one winner. Seemed to recall last year we were winning at Old Trafford with a minute to go

I also did not say I was happy to have Ings back-I know there were issues with his leaving but what I did say it could be the signing of the season as he has hit the PL with a bang. Knowing our shortage of strikers in the UK I could even see him getting back in the England squad if this form continues. Yes I am a big Jay Rod fan but neither of us are privy in knowing what other clubs were interested in him. Rumours are that Palace and Bournemouth (Eddie really rates him) showed interest-I suspect there were a few more

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:17 pm

warksclaret wrote:Spijed I do believe the PL has moved on. Everton, Liverpool, Brighton, Bournemouth, Watford to name a few are noticeably stronger-some of it through new signings, but also in the way they have developed players. I did not say Cork and Westwood were not good enough-you have implied that I did. Cork has been an excellent signing but is clearly shattered. Westwood was brought in as cover-give him his due he took his chance in the latter part of last year. Very tidy and keeps possession, but if you read my post you will see I implied they missed Joey who would absolutely fight for every ball and header. He made his presence felt. Last week we played against Fellini, Matic, Pogba, Lindgard. Who did we have-McNeil, Lennon, Cork and Westwood. There was only ever going to be only one winner. Seemed to recall last year we were winning at Old Trafford with a minute to go

I also did not say I was happy to have Ings back-I know there were issues with his leaving but what I did say it could be the signing of the season as he has hit the PL with a bang. Knowing our shortage of strikers in the UK I could even see him getting back in the England squad if this form continues. Yes I am a big Jay Rod fan but neither of us are privy in knowing what other clubs were interested in him. Rumours are that Palace and Bournemouth (Eddie really rates him) showed interest-I suspect there were a few more

But Watford were basically the same team, minus Richarlison. Are you saying in four months they could have become stronger, faster than us using the same players? I know there are advancements in sports science but 16 weeks is very impressive!

As for United. I recall last season at home we hardly got a look in, so nothing new there.

And as for developing players, what have Brighton, Everton or Bournemouth done in that respect since the summer, except signing new ones?

Developing players implies that they are using new training techniques etc.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:19 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I find it extremely fanciful, bordering on delusional to think that Rodriguez would have turned that tie by three goals. Vokes missed a couple of good chances which he usually would bury, but he is probably our only player who gets on the end of those chances. Neither Barnes or Wood attack crosses as well as Vokes and neither does Rodriguez. Interested to hear which were the 3 open goals though?

Watch the highlights again, missed a similar chance against man u too, straight in front of the net, it was whipped in fast by McNeil though, so thats 2 clear goal scoring chances missed in two games.....

Vydra missed the other chance which was an open net but he has scored....

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:Watch the highlights again, missed a similar chance anainst man u too, straight in front of the net, it was whipped in fast by McNeil though, so thats 3 to 4 clear goal scoring chances missed in two games.....

Like the pundits never fail to point out...
you've got to get in those positions to miss chances!

On the training facilities, anyone with half a braincell should know that players prefer London, so that's where we should have developed Barnfield.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:31 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:Watch the highlights again, missed a similar chance against man u too, straight in front of the net, it was whipped in fast by McNeil though, so thats 2 clear goal scoring chances missed in two games.....

Vydra missed the other chance which was an open net but he has scored....

I’ve already seen the highlights of the Olympiakos game, in fact I was at the game. I didn’t see Vokes miss a single open goal never mind three. Would be interested for you to point out which three open goals he missed in that game.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:36 pm

It's interesting that people still assume Vydra is a striker

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:39 pm

We missed a huge opportunity versus Olympiakos because we failed to take our chances.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:40 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I’ve already seen the highlights of the Olympiakos game, in fact I was at the game. I didn’t see Vokes miss a single open goal never mind three. Would be interested for you to point out which three open goals he missed in that game.

Ok he didn’t miss any chances according to you...

Got better things to do than argue on internet mate ....

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:42 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:We missed a huge opportunity versus Olympiakos because we failed to take our chances.

Or because we caved in away?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:43 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:Ok he didn’t miss any chances according to you...

Got better things to do than argue on internet mate ....

He did miss chances according to me. See my previous post where I said he missed a couple of very good chances. He just didn’t miss three open goals. I’m not arguing, just seemed odd that you’d wildly exaggerate the chances Vokes missed.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:47 pm

Spijed wrote: As for United. I recall last season at home we hardly got a look in, so nothing new there.
.

Not the game I remember.
We were well in that game they won 1-0. Pretty sure we had more shots / chances than them and it was a very even game. We played much better than we did last Sunday.

As for Watford - yes they are fundamentally the same team as last year. Too early to get carried away with their good start - basket case of a club who go through managers like Andre Gray goes through baseball caps. There is nothing about Watford in the last few years that I would want our club to replicate (other than winning the first 4 games this season of course !)

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:50 pm

Spijed-healthy debate by the way. I don't mind the opposition being all over us if we still pick up points. Last year Liverpool, United, City, Spurs were all over us but we got points off them all. At present with that domination we would be well beaten
Development of players could be down to motivation, giving belief and confidence to the players, and developing their skills. Deeney and Gray both look sharp, confident and full of running. I notice Grays passing is more accurate than last year and he is taking good positions. Deeney simply looks a different player.Hughes is now looking the player he always promised to be-I can only assume the Watford manager is making the difference through style of play and motivation

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:51 pm

Nah, we created six or seven chances that you should put away at any level, never mind the level we are at now.

No one else to blame but the strikers they fell to, but at the end of the day we created the chances which is a big positive (even though Olympiakos were terrible)

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:06 pm

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:It's interesting that people still assume Vydra is a striker

20+ goals in the Championship suggest he is a striker.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:We missed a huge opportunity versus Olympiakos because we failed to take our chances.

Indeed. Think the vitriol at the moment can be measured on the back of that performance.... the stats say it wasn't close, we all know better. However I think our abject failure to come out fighting and at least giving United something to think about was amplified on the back of the blood boiling Olymiakos game.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:50 am

Rileybobs wrote:So the difference between us getting past Olympiakos or not was Jay Rodriguez? Really?

It is subjective, of course. However, the experience, mindset and extra 'top body in the squad' would have added something to every aspect, including the crowd. 'He's one of our own' would have roared from the stands. A lift for all, with sharpness.

So the answer us yes....in my opinion.
No issue if others disagree. Measure it against how many left or are long term injured, versus arrivals, to add some perspective.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:54 am

FCBurnley wrote:I totally agree with the bulk of your reply . However would the players who signed for Fulham in the last window have signed for us (assuming the salary was the same ) ??

They were not on our list, except Mawson. He was a player returning to base.

Rodriguez and Dawson were on our list. Dawson, not so important, as we got good value with Gibson. Rodriguez was important for a host of reasons, Inc crowd motivation. 'He's one of our own' would have erupted regularly.