Our European scouting network

[Vegas Claret]

sums it up
""This club doesn’t want to do that because they haven’t got the finance, or the club don’t want to put the finance into it, whichever way you want to look at it"

there is only one way to look at it and again this is another thing Dyche wouldn't have said a year ago - he would have just said "we don'y have the finance". Since summer he has layered his interviews time and again with little pops at the board, make no mistake he is ****** off with having to compete with 1 arm tied behind his back

[joey13]

Why do posters Keep harping on about previous season, it’s what has happened this summer , the club knew about injuries and Europe and basically did eff all to address what was needed, plenty on this board could see what was coming a mile off and got plenty of slagging off for saying something,ie moaners eleven,etc ,pathetic.

[Belgianclaret]

Bristol City (Kodija, Diedhiou)have recruited well in France. Stoke have signed plenty of successful foreign players in the recent past. Swansea (largely in Spain) as well. Wolves last season.

Other clubs, like PNE and more recently Rovers have signed very good players from the lower leagues.

We tend to sign finished articles from the championship/lower Prem, perhaps because we can, but this is reflected in the average age of our team which I think might be the oldest in the PL. Whilst I wouldn't advocate doing what Rovers and PNE do (because of where we are), I'd imagine their domestic networks are more developed than ours (particularly at youth level).

I agree we need the right characters. But such characters aren't limited to the UK. If our scouting network was more akin to a club at the bottom end of the Prem/top end Championship; we wouldn't be stuck spaffing money on players that are over-valued and over-paid. We have the money now so there really is no excuse and would likely save us money in the long-term.

I'd adhere to these comments. That is why the Club needs people abroad who are capable of discouraging the club when they feel all criteria are not being met. This does not cost millions of quid, just appointing a few trustworthy correspondents who are not directly linked to certain players or clubs.
There are still far better bargains to be done, and the influx of so many continentals proves that they can actually adapt and prosper in the PL.

[BOYSIE31]

I just knew when I read the piece that some would use it as a stick to beat the club with - some on this thread haven't disappointed me.

So you think it is acceptable that having got promoted to the so called big league 9 years ago for the first time nothing was put in place regarding scouting and certainly overseas - take your claret tinted glasses off its ok to critise now and again you know.

[BOYSIE31]

It's 4 years since we got promoted with Dyche by which time any benefit from having gone up had already gone. Our scouting network then had been seeing players such as Diego Penny, Fernando Guerrero & Dane Richards on a DVD.

Which clubs lower down have better scouting networks?

For me, the reason we have done so well is because of the way Dyche has scouted. It's absolutely key for a club like ours to bring in the right characters. If that work can't be done on a player then we are better off looking elsewhere.

I will quote one club - Brentford - always bringing players through and selling them on and play bloody good football not hoofball

[Lancasterclaret]

What division are they in?

[ClaretTony]

So you think it is acceptable that having got promoted to the so called big league 9 years ago for the first time nothing was put in place regarding scouting and certainly overseas - take your claret tinted glasses off its ok to critise now and again you know.

I don't have claret tinted glasses - but what I do is support the club. All you ever do is sit there waiting for an opportunity to have a go. I'm not interested in nine years ago, we all know we completely blew that opportunity and that included some ridiculous signings from other countries, signings that cost this club significantly. We all know that Remco van der Schaaf was our biggest earner in that Premier League season and we all know that Fernando Guerrero cost us a small fortune.

So, I'm more than happy with the way the club is progressing. Maybe it is a bit slow in some areas but what's the problem with that? All we've done in the last five years is improve. We don't get every signing right, but the minute we get one seriously wrong is the day it could all come crashing down. We have to bring in the right characters, if we don't it won't work, simple as that.

But you get on with your criticising. I can't think what on earth you want from a club like ours to be honest. What we've had in the last five years is surely beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

[ClaretTony]

I will quote one club - Brentford - always bringing players through and selling them on and play bloody good football not hoofball

Brilliant, that just about sums you up. What is it they've achieved in the last five years? How many of them in the Premier League? How many internationals? How many games in European competition? Comparing Brentford favourably in that way just about sums you up, all you want to do is criticise our club.

[BOYSIE31]

I don't have claret tinted glasses - but what I do is support the club. All you ever do is sit there waiting for an opportunity to have a go. I'm not interested in nine years ago, we all know we completely blew that opportunity and that included some ridiculous signings from other countries, signings that cost this club significantly. We all know that Remco van der Schaaf was our biggest earner in that Premier League season and we all know that Fernando Guerrero cost us a small fortune.

So, I'm more than happy with the way the club is progressing. Maybe it is a bit slow in some areas but what's the problem with that? All we've done in the last five years is improve. We don't get every signing right, but the minute we get one seriously wrong is the day it could all come crashing down. We have to bring in the right characters, if we don't it won't work, simple as that.

But you get on with your criticising. I can't think what on earth you want from a club like ours to be honest. What we've had in the last five years is surely beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

You can critise you know - you are allowed.

[ClaretTony]

You can critise you know - you are allowed.

Why on earth should I/ Because we are not as good as Brentford?

I'm absolutely loving what Burnley FC are doing right now. Nothing is ever perfect but what we are achieving for a club like ours is beyond belief.

[BOYSIE31]

Brilliant, that just about sums you up. What is it they've achieved in the last five years? How many of them in the Premier League? How many internationals? How many games in European competition? Comparing Brentford favourably in that way just about sums you up, all you want to do is criticise our club.

And that sums you up - i was talking about scouting in general

They can do it well but hey ho we are **** at it.

[ClaretTony]

And that sums you up - i was talking about scouting in general

They can do it well but hey ho we are **** at it.

and it totally sums you up because we are actually very good at it, have you not worked it out yet that without good scouting you don't get good recruitment and without good recruitment you don't go anywhere.

[BOYSIE31]

Why on earth should I/ Because we are not as good as Brentford?

I'm absolutely loving what Burnley FC are doing right now. Nothing is ever perfect but what we are achieving for a club like ours is beyond belief.

Here we go again -"little old Burnley" no wonder we never crack on to the next stage its drummed into some supporters.

[Spijed]

Here we go again -"little old Burnley" no wonder we never crack on to the next stage its drummed into some supporters.

What next stage is that?

Top six?

[claretonthecoast1882]

Last season must have killed people like Boysie almost a full year unable to whinge.

It is the same whoppers all the time.

[Belgianclaret]

Shame that the message gets mixed up with the messengers. We should be able to discuss this worthwhile topic without reverting to any undue criticism of either the club or the posters.
Oops sorry, this is a messageboard

[ClaretTony]

Last season must have killed people like Boysie almost a full year unable to whinge.

It is the same whoppers all the time.

But he did whinge, time and time again.

[Rileybobs]

Here we go again -"little old Burnley" no wonder we never crack on to the next stage its drummed into some supporters.

I’m pretty sure we cracked onto the next stage last season which was our highest placed finish in donkey’s years.

[Turfytop]

Shame that the message gets mixed up with the messengers. We should be able to discuss this worthwhile topic without reverting to any undue criticism of either the club or the posters.
Oops sorry, this is a messageboard

And all this started by claret tony, it's a football message board nobody is the same, people criticise, people praise things all the time, so what, we are all burnley fans, we are all here to discuss the ins and out of Bfc, not bickering all the time, just because people don't have the same opinion as you

[Belgianclaret]

And all this started by claret tony, it's a football message board nobody is the same, people criticise, people praise things all the time, so what, we are all burnley fans, we are all here to discuss the ins and out of Bfc, not bickering all the time, just because people don't have the same opinion as you

Now you’ve done it again TT

[Murger]

and it totally sums you up because we are actually very good at it, have you not worked it out yet that without good scouting you don't get good recruitment and without good recruitment you don't go anywhere.

Our recruitment wasn't good this transfer window. It was **** poor, however you dress it up.

[evensteadiereddie]

So who should we have bought and at what cost ?

[Steddyman]

So who should we have bought and at what cost ?

Ah. Exposed, we have the Chief Scout at the club watching the forums for the name of the next major signing.

[ClaretTony]

Ah. Exposed, we have the Chief Scout at the club watching the forums for the name of the next major signing.

Well you are the one who thinks all transfer business is done on social media

[DCWat]

Shame that the message gets mixed up with the messengers. We should be able to discuss this worthwhile topic without reverting to any undue criticism of either the club or the posters.
Oops sorry, this is a messageboard

Most frustrating thing on here is that good debate is often spoiled by it apparently having to be a black or white argument.

Of all the areas that we have significantly improved, and there are many, foreign scouting and recruitment is one of the areas where we blatantly haven’t improved.

There’s an interesting debate to be had, if only it didn’t have to end up as people brandished as happy clappers or uber critics.

[Stayingup]

Defour demonstrates the best and the worst of European recruitment though. He is a fantastic talent and was excellent value, but he has been dogged by injuries and general lack of fitness and his character was called into question for a significant period of his first full season at the club.

As said before. If Defour wasn't I hurt prone he would have cost much more and would be at a bigger club than us

[SGr]

Genuinely can’t take anyone seriously if they think not having a functioning European scouting network isn’t a big big issue.

[jojomk1]

But for me, its not just the issue of an "overseas" scouting network - its the recruitment dept in total

At the end of last season we had something exciting (europa league and 7th place finish) to hang our hat on and, use to build an even stronger starting eleven to start this year

We appeared to end up chasing just 2 targets until virtual panic set in during the last week - SD had said at the end of last season that he hoped to get deals done early, as players came back earlier for the pre season training, so don't anyone try to convince me that the last transfer week's activity had been carefully planned

[Vegas Claret]

Why on earth should I/ Because we are not as good as Brentford?

I'm absolutely loving what Burnley FC are doing right now. Nothing is ever perfect but what we are achieving for a club like ours is beyond belief.

(just using the above as a tag so you see my question )

What do you make of Dyche's comment

"This club doesn’t want to do that because they haven’t got the finance, or the club don’t want to put the finance into it, whichever way you want to look at it"

To me that doesn't sound like a comment of a content manager, no way would he have added that second comment last season

[Bin Ont Turf]

Genuinely can’t take anyone seriously if they think not having a functioning European scouting network isn’t a big big issue.

It isn't a big big issue though. We've managed for all our existence without one.

Do we want and should we have one? Of course we should.

The way the black cloud chasers on here go on, it's like it's done on purpose not having one.

[Steddyman]

Well you are the one who thinks all transfer business is done on social media

Incorrect. I am the one who believes transfer business leaks on social media before it is made public by the club.

I don't think I've been wrong in that belief in the last 3 years.

[SGr]

It isn't a big big issue though. We've managed for all our existence without one.

Do we want and should we have one? Of course we should.

The way the black cloud chasers on here go on, it's like it's done on purpose not having one.

It’s that mentality that alarms me. “It hasn’t been an issue in the past so it’s fine”.

We don’t have the ability to simply spend our way out of trouble. We have to be smart and plan ahead in order to remain competitive - which means in this world of inflated fees we need a scouting network capable of picking up bargains, the likes of which are extremely rare here.

Barring a few exceptions, Burnley’s issue for me is we only change things when we are absolutely forced too - never before an issue arises. This is another case. We will never be safe in the Premier League, and neither will any club outside the top 6. We have to be smarter than our rivals - and the training ground investment was a big leap forward. But there’s a long way to go. Dyche keeps us in the game by being a better manager than virtually any other in the league, but we have to do more off the pitch. He won’t be here forever.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You can critise you know - you are allowed.

There's structured criticizing and there's whinging just for something to do.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s that mentality that alarms me. “It hasn’t been an issue in the past so it’s fine”.

We don’t have the ability to simply spend our way out of trouble. We have to be smart and plan ahead in order to remain competitive - which means in this world of inflated fees we need a scouting network capable of picking up bargains, the likes of which are extremely rare here.

Barring a few exceptions, Burnley’s issue for me is we only change things when we are absolutely forced too - never before an issue arises. This is another case. We will never be safe in the Premier League, and neither will any club outside the top 6. We have to be smarter than our rivals - and the training ground investment was a big leap forward. But there’s a long way to go. Dyche keeps us in the game by being a better manager than virtually any other in the league, but we have to do more off the pitch. He won’t be here forever.

You're right, he won't be here forever.

What you're completely ignoring though are the changes he's overseen gradually that will be here long after he's gone.

Training facilities.
UK scouting network.
Youth set up/academy.
Ground Improvements.
Clubs current league standing (with the right replacement manager we can stay in the PL, assuming we are still here when he goes).

Next will quite possibly be something like a European scouting network but these things take time if starting from scratch, but for some reason there are people on here who're expecting it to be up and running now, bit like they do with the academy.

[SGr]

You're right, he won't be here forever.

What you're completely ignoring though are the changes he's overseen gradually that will be here long after he's gone.

Training facilities.
UK scouting network.
Youth set up/academy.
Ground Improvements.
Clubs current league standing (with the right replacement manager we can stay in the PL, assuming we are still here when he goes).

Next will quite possibly be something like a European scouting network but these things take time if starting from scratch, but for some reason there are people on here who're expecting it to be up and running now, bit like they do with the academy.

There’s an obvious time lag, I do understand that. Especially with the academy - Im not someone who expects us to be churning out Premier League quality talent (although in fairness I think we’re genuinely ahead of the game on that front with McNeil and Dunne).

My point relates to the progress we make when Dyche leaves, I mean he has forced a lot of these issues. The training centre was something he demanded, for example. I want us to have a permanent set up that keeps us ahead of the game. Southampton have it for example, but they’ve fallen short in recent years through poor managerial appointments. It takes time to set up things like scouting networks, but I think we are in danger of lagging.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Southampton have a billionaire owner and have done since they ended up in League 1 a few years back.

Yeah we are playing catch up, but we will do for a long time yet.

[dsr]

Of all the areas that we have significantly improved, and there are many, foreign scouting and recruitment is one of the areas where we blatantly haven’t improved.

Actually, that's not true - the overseas scouting has improved.

The old scout team signed Penny, van der Schaaf, and Guerrero. The new one didn't. The old one wasted many, many millions - the new one didn't.

There's two aspects to scouting. Not signing the good players is one of them, and it's important, and that's where our overseas scout team isn't succeeding at present. But the other aspect is in not signing the duds, the black sheep, the wastes of space - and in that, we've been successful.

Faint praise maybe, but we're definitely improving.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

How do you apply to be a European scout for Burnley?

Seems ideal, travel Europe and do the square root of f*** all with no end product expected. Ideal job.... does the job actually exist or is it fake news that we have a European scout?? haha.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

Guerrero was a loan player from Independiente del Valle. I don't think his wages would have been that high, so I don't get why anyone is fretting about his cost to the club.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

Actually, that's not true - the overseas scouting has improved.

The old scout team signed Penny, van der Schaaf, and Guerrero. The new one didn't. The old one wasted many, many millions - the new one didn't.

There's two aspects to scouting. Not signing the good players is one of them, and it's important, and that's where our overseas scout team isn't succeeding at present. But the other aspect is in not signing the duds, the black sheep, the wastes of space - and in that, we've been successful.

Faint praise maybe, but we're definitely improving.

This scout signed legzdins,Wells & Walters, I think you will find its probably double if not triple the cost of Penny, van der Schaaf, and Guerrero.

[dsr]

This scout signed legzdins,Wells & Walters, I think you will find its probably double if not triple the cost of Penny, van der Schaaf, and Guerrero.

There's your answer. If our overseas scouts are looking in Birmingham, Huddersfield and Stoke, then it's no wonder we're not getting foreigners in.

Van der Schaaf was our highest paid player in the first Premier League season. None of your three examples were the highest picked player, and you're only picking the least effective signings out of many to choose from - the overseas examples I picked are virtually I full set of overseas players. For a fair comparison, you need to compare Penny, vdS, and Guerrero against Defour and no-one else.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

There's your answer. If our overseas scouts are looking in Birmingham, Huddersfield and Stoke, then it's no wonder we're not getting foreigners in.

Van der Schaaf was our highest paid player in the first Premier League season. None of your three examples were the highest picked player, and you're only picking the least effective signings out of many to choose from - the overseas examples I picked are virtually I full set of overseas players. For a fair comparison, you need to compare Penny, vdS, and Guerrero against Defour and no-one else.

I doubt that VDS was on more money than Fletcher, Fox, Nugent, Cork or Bikey (just thought i'd chuck a couple of loan players in as you have Guerrero on your list). Going slightly off tangent I think we used the loan system better in 2009 than we do in 2018.

Based on recent history our overseas scouts are more likely to be in Birmingham than Europe

[dsr]

I doubt that VDS was on more money than Fletcher, Fox, Nugent, Cork or Bikey (just thought i'd chuck a couple of loan players in as you have Guerrero on your list). Going slightly off tangent I think we used the loan system better in 2009 than we do in 2018.

Based on recent history our overseas scouts are more likely to be in Birmingham than Europe

ClaretTony says specifically that van der Schaaf was the highest paid player that year (post 7). I know he got a big pay rise built into his contract when we got promoted, even though he played only once in the promotion season. Why don't you think he was highest paid?

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

ClaretTony says specifically that van der Schaaf was the highest paid player that year (post 7). I know he got a big pay rise built into his contract when we got promoted, even though he played only once in the promotion season. Why don't you think he was highest paid?

One of the reasons being 6 months of the 09/10 season he was loaned out to Brondby so they would have surely contributed to paying his wages, so I can't imagine the wages paid by us were higher than the players I mentioned in the previous post, having said that I still find it hard to believe his wage was higher than the likes of even Tyrone Mears. Also you need to take in to account he was a free transfer, so if we talking about money wasted we need to take the fee and the wages in to consideration.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

????????

My bad, Butterworth.
You wrote an article summer of last year saying he was the new "European Scout"

We haven't signed any European based player since.

[Inchy]

We have a premier league manager and a championship board.

I’d rather gamble and lose than play it safe and eventually lose

[JohnMac]

We have built our success on a model that works for us. We aren't an attractive proposition for a lot of home nation players because the squad have to work hard for their corn, some of the overseas contingent in the Premier League would last 5 minutes at Gawthorpe.


Yes we can improve but ultimately I wouldn't want to see our club crashing down having been raped by overpaid players and agents just for the sake of adding a few exotic names.

[NL Claret]

Some fans / posters would prefer the West Ham approach. Spend big, change managers regularly and still be sh!t. Give them more scope to complain. They'd be in dreamland.

[Bosna]

Some fans / posters would prefer the West Ham approach. Spend big, change managers regularly and still be sh!t. Give them more scope to complain. They'd be in dreamland.

Fans care about the club and whilst acknowledging how great things are at the moment; most recognise that you can't stand still in this league. We haven't got better this summer and we didn't address problems that were identifiable. A limited European scouting network is arguably one reason for that - hence this thread.

[NL Claret]

Fans care about the club and whilst acknowledging how great things are at the moment; most recognise that you can't stand still in this league. We haven't got better this summer and we didn't address problems that were identifiable. A limited European scouting network is arguably one reason for that - hence this thread.

I do like a condescending explanation of the blindingly obvious. I thought the thread was just another opportunity for the moaning posters to moan. So far what I've taken from is that stoke ando Swansea recruit well in Europe (both in the EFL) and burnley's is pathetic and shocking yet the club have won 2 promotions and survived twice in the PL. Only on UTC. As you were.