Serena Williams loses it ...

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:22 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45462014

Docked a whole game, allegedly mouthed the F word at the Umpire & called him a " thief " .... lost the US Open final in straight sets ...

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:49 pm

You can't be serious?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:04 am

Typical Serena. She's done it before. If she can't win by fair means, she'll try and win by foul - this wasn't just about trying to intimidate the umpire, it was about intimidating her opponent as well.

Roger Federer wanted to keep playing long enough so his daughters could remember him playing. Maybe Serena should make sure she retires early enough that her daughter can't remember her playing.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:11 am

Good call dsr. There is certainly a massive difference of respect between the two. But you just know what's going to happen - this will be totally overan by the fact that one is black and the other one isn't. Give it time. Give it time.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:23 am

She completely lost the plot big time and thankfully the match before things became even worse for her.

Retirement time I think.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:55 am

tybfc wrote:She completely lost the plot big time and thankfully the match before things became even worse for her.
Retirement time I think.

Racist.

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:46 am

is it "because she's black"
said Ali G

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:40 am

But you would though, wouldn't you!?

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:44 am

MACCA wrote:But you would though, wouldn't you!?

Not even if I had a grudge against my c**k

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:15 am

Yes, but, erm, Trump ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:41 am

She's one of the greatest tennis players of all time.

She's over stepped the mark, but its (sadly) what absolute winners do.

Saying that, I'm very doubtful that the same thing would happen in a Mens final.

Certainly takes a lot away from what was a great performance by her opponent.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:49 am

I don't get how the crowd appeared to be on her side and against the umpire. She wants suspending. She's a foul mouth. I heard her on the radio this morning commenting that she has a child now, not sure how that's relative, having said that it doesn't set a good example.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:03 am

If footballers or managers spoke to officials like that they’d be looking at a ban.
Or a fine if it was Wenger.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:04 am

Sounds like a McEnroe tantrum, tennis should just implement the yellow then red card form of disipline that should sort the likes of Williams out.

Why tennis doesn’t seem to take bad behaviour seriously I will never know, again McEnroe got away with far far to much in those days.

I can’t stand the bloke always thought that if he was unlucky enough to be in my company I’d tell him exactly what I thought of him...the big mouth.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:20 am

She's holding the race card back and leading with the ace of misogyny.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:32 am

thatdberight wrote:She's holding the race card back and leading with the ace of misogyny.

Don't worry that'll be coming out if the latest hissy fit doesn't get the, over entitled diva, enough attention.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:22 am

Her defence is 'yeah but whatabout..' if a man had said the same as her.

She might be right on that, but it's a weak response. She should just apologise, first to the umpire and also to her opponent if she hasn't already. Took the gloss off her big moment without doubt.

Protest about weaker refereeing in the men's game if you think it's an issue but don't behave badly and then cry 'but they do it'. That doesn't really make you a feminist icon.

Well done to anyone trying to shoehorn race into this though, Serena hasn't even gone there.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:39 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:If footballers or managers spoke to officials like that they’d be looking at a ban.
Or a fine if it was Wenger.

Or more time added on if it was Ferguson.

welsbyswife · Post by **welsbyswife** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:41 am

Is she a mother.....that passed my by. Maybe she should talk about it more!!

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 pm

I don`t quite frankly get the whole pro-Williams crowd. I`d have thought not only would they be sick to the back teeth of Serena`s "I had a baby a year ago and it has been difficult boo hoo" routine, but the fact that Naomi Osaka has lived in the States since she was 3 years of age, they might have taken to her as `one of their own`. I guess the fact she has a Japanese surname put paid to that!!!!

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:09 pm

He’s lost the plot...

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:40 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:He’s lost the plot...

She did say in her press conference, "I've seen other men say things..."

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:05 pm

The lesbian match commentator "She (Williams) called him a thief. I didn`t hear anything that warranted a warning" WHAT??????

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:41 pm

I only caught the bit where she said to the umpire,"Iam a woman"are you sure Serena?

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:26 pm

Slightly disappointed she didn't play the last card in her had, perhaps she's saving it for later!

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:26 pm

Just seen a bit more of it. Still can't work out why the umpire didn't tell her to stop speaking to him like that and then disqualify her. She mentions "it's because I'm a women", what is? She wants suspending for a lengthy period.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:42 pm

Serena is lucky to escape with a fine,if there is no further punishment,she has form for this behaviour

that her antics overshadowed a great achievement for her young opponent. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45463752

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:00 pm

Sue barker and Williams it's sexism. Sick n tired of these little Lambs Bleating.... The umpire was treated appallingly.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:40 pm

Serena was 100% spot on, not seen a single pro tennis player male or female back the umpire

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:01 am

Vegas Claret wrote:Serena was 100% spot on, not seen a single pro tennis player male or female back the umpire

Yes, but are they saying that smashing rackets and calling the umpire a thief shouldn't be against the rules, or are they saying that Serena Williams ought to have special rules that don't apply to anyone else?

I've seen plenty of comments about "it wouldn't have happened if it had been a male player", but no examples of a male player behaving like that as evidence. After all, we know that Serena Williams can get away with telling a lineswoman "I'm going to stuff this **** ball down your **** throat" and get a single point deduction and no ban at all. Are we absolutely sure that Federer and Nadal would be able to talk to a lineswoman that way? We won't know, unless they do it.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:20 am

dsr wrote:Yes, but are they saying that smashing rackets and calling the umpire a thief shouldn't be against the rules, or are they saying that Serena Williams ought to have special rules that don't apply to anyone else?

I've seen plenty of comments about "it wouldn't have happened if it had been a male player", but no examples of a male player behaving like that as evidence. After all, we know that Serena Williams can get away with telling a lineswoman "I'm going to stuff this **** ball down your **** throat" and get a single point deduction and no ban at all. Are we absolutely sure that Federer and Nadal would be able to talk to a lineswoman that way? We won't know, unless they do it.

Serena isn't complaining that it was or wasn't against the rules, she's stating that it wouldn't have happened with a male - she has been backed today by numerous highly ranked male players who have pretty much all said that they have said and done much worse and have not been punished in the way she was.

Djokovic has had many a run in with officials as have other players and I've never known one to have a point taken off them never mind a full game

I'm all for players of any sport speaking up against **** officials when they are clearly wrong

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:31 am

Vegas Claret wrote:Serena isn't complaining that it was or wasn't against the rules, she's stating that it wouldn't have happened with a male - she has been backed today by numerous highly ranked male players who have pretty much all said that they have said and done much worse and have not been punished in the way she was.

Djokovic has had many a run in with officials as have other players and I've never known one to have a point taken off them never mind a full game

I'm all for players of any sport speaking up against **** officials when they are clearly wrong

The rules say that if a coach is coaching his player, then the player gets a warning. Serena's coach admits he was coaching her. Was the umpire wrong to give her a warning?

The rules say that if a player smashes her racket she gets a warning. Serena smashed her racket, and got a warning. Was the umpire wrong?

The rules say that if you accuse the umpire of dishonesty you get a warning. Serena called the umpire a thief. Was the umpire wrong to give her a warning?

I'm afraid your knowledge of maen's tennis isn't all that good. Have you never heard of Nick Kyrgios? Google "Nick Kyrgios point deduction" and you might be surprised.

And the reason so few male players get points deduction for smashing rackets, is that they're not stupid enough or out-of-control enough to do it when they've already had a warning. Kyrgios excepted.

(Except for this Djokovic incident. He got a point deduction when he smashed his racket when already on a warning - exactly as Serena Williams just did. The reason you obviously never heard about it was because there wasn't a chorus of "not fair, not fair, he's novak, he should be allowed to do what he wants, it wouldn't have happened if he'd been a woman".

If you think men are allowed to verbally abuse umpires like Serena did, show your examples.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Tennis/ATPTou ... d-20170108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:53 am

dsr wrote:The rules say that if a coach is coaching his player, then the player gets a warning. Serena's coach admits he was coaching her. Was the umpire wrong to give her a warning?

The rules say that if a player smashes her racket she gets a warning. Serena smashed her racket, and got a warning. Was the umpire wrong?

The rules say that if you accuse the umpire of dishonesty you get a warning. Serena called the umpire a thief. Was the umpire wrong to give her a warning?

I'm afraid your knowledge of maen's tennis isn't all that good. Have you never heard of Nick Kyrgios? Google "Nick Kyrgios point deduction" and you might be surprised.

And the reason so few male players get points deduction for smashing rackets, is that they're not stupid enough or out-of-control enough to do it when they've already had a warning. Kyrgios excepted.

(Except for this Djokovic incident. He got a point deduction when he smashed his racket when already on a warning - exactly as Serena Williams just did. The reason you obviously never heard about it was because there wasn't a chorus of "not fair, not fair, he's novak, he should be allowed to do what he wants, it wouldn't have happened if he'd been a woman".

If you think men are allowed to verbally abuse umpires like Serena did, show your examples.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Tennis/ATPTou ... d-20170108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not gonna overly disagree with your points BUT if it's all the same I value the opinions of those currently playing and those retired over someone on here. I haven't seen a dissenting voice about Serena (granted I've spent most of the day hiking up a mountain so haven't caught up yet !)

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:18 am

Vegas Claret wrote:Not gonna overly disagree with your points BUT if it's all the same I value the opinions of those currently playing and those retired over someone on here. I haven't seen a dissenting voice about Serena (granted I've spent most of the day hiking up a mountain so haven't caught up yet !)

I still don't know whether these things should have been ignored because it was Serena Williams, or whether you think that smashing rackets and calling the umpire "liar" and "thief" in two separate rants should be illegal or not.

The only controversial bit as I see it is that she was given a warning for what her coach did, She wasn't deducted a point, and she wasn't cost a game - she was given a warning. Net cost, nothing.

After that, smashing her racket is an automatic warning. No exceptions. It's like the rule about a deliberate foul "taking oine for the team" in football - an automatic booking. How would you like it if we were playing Man City and Kompany (already booked) committed a blatant foul, one that everyone in the world knew to be an automatic booking, and the ref said he wasn't booking him because he was rich and famous and one of the world's best players?

As for her pathetic defence that no male player has ever had a game deduction for calling the umpire a liar and a thief, that's probably because (i) she wasn't given a game deduction, she was given a warning - a third yellow card, in effect. And secondly, has any other player (male or female) ever done that?

Be wary about listening to the players when deciding what the rules should be. Whatever we might think about current refereeing standards, think how it would be if the players were setting the rules.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:29 am

dsr wrote:I still don't know whether these things should have been ignored because it was Serena Williams, or whether you think that smashing rackets and calling the umpire "liar" and "thief" in two separate rants should be illegal or not.

The only controversial bit as I see it is that she was given a warning for what her coach did, She wasn't deducted a point, and she wasn't cost a game - she was given a warning. Net cost, nothing.

After that, smashing her racket is an automatic warning. No exceptions. It's like the rule about a deliberate foul "taking oine for the team" in football - an automatic booking. How would you like it if we were playing Man City and Kompany (already booked) committed a blatant foul, one that everyone in the world knew to be an automatic booking, and the ref said he wasn't booking him because he was rich and famous and one of the world's best players?

As for her pathetic defence that no male player has ever had a game deduction for calling the umpire a liar and a thief, that's probably because (i) she wasn't given a game deduction, she was given a warning - a third yellow card, in effect. And secondly, has any other player (male or female) ever done that?

Be wary about listening to the players when deciding what the rules should be. Whatever we might think about current refereeing standards, think how it would be if the players were setting the rules.

I'm not gonna say I'm a tennis expert in any way shape or form so i will gladly bow to your knowledge mate as your arguments are solid based on the rules. On your very last point I think it's long overdue that officials in any sport should have been a pro in that sport. As much as rules are rules I'd much rather watch something where context and common sense are applied

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:13 am

Absolutely not. You must have heard ex-players talking about, ‘that was handball’ and ‘I don’t think it should be a penalty as the foul wasn’t deliberate’. Or, it has to be handball because the ball ended up in the net and the ref allowed the goal to stand.

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:26 am

I’m assuming we know that there isn’t an offence of handball, only deliberate handball and it stretches from the tips of fingers t the top of the upper arm, but not on the shoulder. Any amount of physical contact with the opposing goalkeeper is a foul, apart from a perfect shoulder charge. So unless a goalkeeper has his arms by his side any contact is a foul. So arms reaching above or stretched out in front to catch the ball prevent a lawful shoulder charge being made. Shoulder charge being upper arm from elbow to shoulder making contact with opponents upper arm, elbow to shoulder with the ball being within playing reach.

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:29 am

Vegas, do you prefer context and common sense by referees over consistency?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:13 am

Darnhill Claret wrote:Vegas, do you prefer context and common sense by referees over consistency?

Consistency in refereeing

behave

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:14 am

Nobody can deny the umpire is a ******* idiot

https://news.sky.com/story/serena-willi ... t-11494215

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:21 am

Serena doesn’t play in the men’s game so what would and wouldn’t be punished shouldn’t concern her.

If her opponent had done the same would they have been punished in the same way? Asking that would have made more sense, although the answer would be yes

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:51 am

It sounds very petty and absolutely pathetic from Williams. She should feel very ashamed in the morning.

She was given a slapped wrist over something she didn't agree with but it cost her nothing in the match. Then she threw her toys out of the pram and was fairly disciplined. Nobody should be able to threaten a match official with her reputation in the way she did. You'll never referee another match for me as long as you live ha ha, stop crying you silly woman. Then calling him a liar and a thief. Incredible. I hope he officiates her next match of importance.

It's akin to me threatening to take away my kids Xbox, them continuing to badger me to the point that i take away a game, then ultimately taking the whole console because they still haven't stopped! I wouldn't expect that from my 7 and 5 year old, never mind a grown woman!

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:03 am

In the isolated incident of the game the rules were applied correctly. However in the context of the sport the rules are not being applied equally between the sexes, as many professionals current and former have agreed.

Leaving Serena aside two weeks ago a female player was deducted points for changing her shirt on a hot day. Tennis clearly has a bit of a problem.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:03 am

Vegas Claret wrote:Serena isn't complaining that it was or wasn't against the rules, she's stating that it wouldn't have happened with a male - she has been backed today by numerous highly ranked male players who have pretty much all said that they have said and done much worse and have not been punished in the way she was.

Djokovic has had many a run in with officials as have other players and I've never known one to have a point taken off them never mind a full game

I'm all for players of any sport speaking up against **** officials when they are clearly wrong

Vegas Claret wrote:Nobody can deny the umpire is a ******* idiot

https://news.sky.com/story/serena-willi ... t-11494215" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Make your mind up, your example completely undermines your own argument

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:15 am

Don’t really like tennis or know the finer points of the rules but would Serena Williams have raised these issues had she won, my initial thought is No.

If Williams had won but then said we have real issues in the game that need addressing for womankind she would garner far more support from all areas of the spectrum.

This current incident just smacks of bad loser too me.

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:19 am

RocketLawnChair wrote:Don’t really like tennis or know the finer points of the rules but would Serena Williams have raised these issues had she won, my initial thought is No.

If Williams had won but then said we have real issues in the game that need addressing for womankind she would garner far more support from all areas of the spectrum.

This current incident just smacks of bad loser too me.

Yes. She made her point during the game before the result was known.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:31 am

SW, fired up yet struggling, lost it - as many frustrated, talented and incredibly committed sports players - men or women - do. McEnroe built two lucrative careers on it and, to be fair, she looked pretty embarrassed at the awards ceremony.

I love the predictably snarky comments on here, though.

I think the shirt-changing incident was different : as I understand it, you're allowed to change your shirt if you ask the umpire first and change while sitting down. The lass did neither.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:33 am

$17,000 dollar fine is like pocket money to her so not really a punishment. Appalling behaviour.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:45 am

To think that women’s tennis would barely fill a village hall if it was a stand alone entity the likes of Serena et al have done staggeringly well to be paid equally . The problem here is nothing to do with umpiring it’s the enourmous chips which are permanent features on SW (rather powerful ) shoulders.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:12 am

For Men v Women in tennis substitute "big" club v "little" club in football and just think about if we have a player sent off, a penalty given against us, someone charged by the FA or banned like Gray etc. the first thing we do is go on about how it wouldn't have happened to Man Utd or Arsenal regardless of whether our player actually was in the wrong or not. The thing that really irks people on here is how we perceive that others who should be treated equally are treated preferentially.

Not excusing what Williams did but IF there are discrepancy's within Tennis around how men and women are treated (and there seems to be this view at the moment from a number of both men and women in the game) then why shouldn't Williams be frustrated and call it out in the same way a lot of you do on here when you feel we are treated differently from the "big 6" clubs.