Labour Party set to purge and deselect rebellious MPs

[Lancasterclaret]

I've got this awful feeling that what I (and everybody else) regards as anti-semitism doesn't count as anything other than a "Jewish Global Conspiracy" in your book.

And to be fair to the actual Labour party, the big guns like McDonnell and Owen Jones backed her, though it was very telling when OJ was asked if it was because of anti-semitism that she was being attacked, he just replied with "No". As Owen Jones is incapable of using one word when he could use a million that does tell me quite a lot.

[Lancasterclaret]

If you can come up with a compelling reason why they tried to censure her for attending an rally about anti-semitism in the Labour party I'm all ears btw bluelab.

I'm genuinely interested here in why so many Labour party members don't seem to be able to understand what is "anti-semitism" and what is legitimate criticism of Israel. I mean, Israel is doing its level best to lose every single friend its got in the world at the moment, so its can't be that hard to criticize them without being anti-semitic can it?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I had no idea the racist Israel hating bluelab did irony

[AndrewJB]

If you can come up with a compelling reason why they tried to censure her for attending an rally about anti-semitism in the Labour party I'm all ears btw bluelab.

I'm genuinely interested here in why so many Labour party members don't seem to be able to understand what is "anti-semitism" and what is legitimate criticism of Israel. I mean, Israel is doing its level best to lose every single friend its got in the world at the moment, so its can't be that hard to criticize them without being anti-semitic can it?

I think conspiracy theories - such as that of Labour purging members - work best when the conspiracy is directed by one person, or a small group of people high up in an organisation. As soon as the conspiracy involves hundreds or thousands of ordinary people within an organisation it begins to lose credibility as a conspiracy. I don't know the details about the Canterbury censuring, but this one about Joan Ryan makes interesting reading. In a nutshell people in her constituency have been trying to get rid of her for five years (before Corbyn was leader), and she was unpopular for a number of reasons.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2018/09 ... ality.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As it turns out Ryan fabricated an anti-Semitic attack on her, and this was caught on camera.

[COBBLE]

As a matter of interest what is the situation in Burnley regarding the security of the current MP and any Momentum like challenge?

[Chobulous]

Burnley's up north. Capture the heartland before you worry about the provinces.

[Lancasterclaret]

Course, its all a conspiracy theory.

Even the leader of the Labour party says it isn't and that they have a problem with anti-semitism.

Still, you keep telling yourself its all being blown out of all proportion.

[IanMcL]

There have been no £3 members for years.

£3.00 per year Available for those aged 14-19, students and current or former members of the British Armed Forces

[Clarets4me]

As a matter of interest what is the situation in Burnley regarding the security of the current MP and any Momentum like challenge?

There are rumours that Mrs Cooper may be the subject of a challenge ....

In October 20126, Labour County Coun. for Burnley Central East, Dr Hassan, who won the seat in a by-election in 2010 ( holding it in 2012 ), turned up at a Labour party meeting held to select the candidates for next May's County Council election. He was told that his services would not longer be required, as a certain Sobia Malik had been chosen...
A similar fate befell John Fifield, in the 2015 local Borough Elections for the Bank Hall ward, where he lived. He was " pursuaded " to stand down from his safe seat, and fight the Con/LD marginal of Whittlefield & Ightenhill, where he lost. The new Candidate for Bank Hall was duly elected .... Sobia Malik !

Miss Malik's father is Rafiq Malik, former Burnley Councillor and Mayor, and she is the sister of ex Dewsbury MP, Shahid Malik. When the expenses furore was exposed, he had the highest expenses of any MP, and was the only MP to employ his father on his staff.

It's interesting that the Boundary Review's proposal is for the Burnley Parliamentary Seat to be significantly changed with 3 wards in the west of the town ( Gawthorpe, Rosegrove with Lowerhouse & Hapton with Park ), being set to join the Accrington Constituency. These wards have a minimal number of Asian heritage electors, whereas the proposed addition of Nelson and Brierfield to the Burnley seat, will bring a 40% Asian heritage electorate, mainly Pakistani origin.

Burnley is also one of those Labour seats that select from a women only shortlist, the current MP being Julie Cooper, who won back the seat from the Liberal Democrats in 2015.

[NottsClaret]

As a matter of interest what is the situation in Burnley regarding the security of the current MP and any Momentum like challenge?

It is interesting, I genuinely don't know how this works within the Labour party. Around here, Dan Jarvis is a very popular MP (15,000 majority in Barnsley) and won the Mayor of Sheffield race too. He's no fan of Corbyn and hasn't hidden that. You'd think South Yorkshire would be as hard left as it comes but there you go. If Momentum had enough members in the constituency could they try and force him out? I guess they could, but surely that's not right, considering he's easily won the seat a couple of times in general elections.

Not having a go here, honestly interested in how this works.

[Clarets4me]

It is interesting, I genuinely don't know how this works within the Labour party. Around here, Dan Jarvis is a very popular MP (15,000 majority in Barnsley) and won the Mayor of Sheffield race too. He's no fan of Corbyn and hasn't hidden that. You'd think South Yorkshire would be as hard left as it comes but there you go. If Momentum had enough members in the constituency could they try and force him out? I guess they could, but surely that's not right, considering he's easily won the seat a couple of times in general elections.

Not having a go here, honestly interested in how this works.

They could under the rules !
The hard left rely on getting themselves organised and then hope that they outnumber the other members, who may not turn up to local party meetings, assuming that the existing Candidate will be reselected. These were the tactics in Liverpool in the 1980's and other areas where they got a hold...
They're also taking a grip on Labour's ruling NEC ( National Executive Committees ) ...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 21821.html

[mkmel]

They could under the rules !
The hard left rely on getting themselves organised and then hope that they outnumber the other members, who may not turn up to local party meetings, assuming that the existing Candidate will be reselected. These were the tactics in Liverpool in the 1980's and other areas where they got a hold...
They're also taking a grip on Labour's ruling NEC ( National Executive Committees ) ...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 21821.html

Isn't Dan Jarvis the ex Army guy who at one time was the favourite to be the Labour leader before withdrawing from the contest due to personal reasons?

Oops
This is in reply to post #10

[If it be your will]

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[If it be your will]

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[joey13]

I don't agree with some people's opinions about politics but respect their opinion and often convincing opposite views. However, I can't ever recall you making a good and well thought out point, whether that's about politics, football or anything else for that matter. So I've no intention of engaging in a debate with you because there's zero value in it.

Thanks , I’ll try not to lose any sleep over it .
I think my point about having a rubbish transfer window sort of debunks your respected opinion though .

[Colburn_Claret]

I said many years ago when Ed Milliband became leader that I couldn't support them any more, not with my vote anyway. I told people I hadn't left the Labour party, they left me.
With the withdrawing of the whip for Frank Field, and the pressure on his local CLP to deselect him, with the pressure to deselect other moderate socialists, I've finally had enough.
I cancelled my subscription to the Party, and I doubt I will ever go back.
Hopefully Tony Blair will be correct and a new centrist party will fill the void left. Frank Field and other deselected, disillusioned socialists, even some of the left wing moderate Tories should form a new party. Maybe even talk David Miliband back to lead it.

[joey13]

I said many years ago when Ed Milliband became leader that I couldn't support them any more, not with my vote anyway. I told people I hadn't left the Labour party, they left me.
With the withdrawing of the whip for Frank Field, and the pressure on his local CLP to deselect him, with the pressure to deselect other moderate socialists, I've finally had enough.
I cancelled my subscription to the Party, and I doubt I will ever go back.
Hopefully Tony Blair will be correct and a new centrist party will fill the void left. Frank Field and other deselected, disillusioned socialists, even some of the left wing moderate Tories should form a new party. Maybe even talk David Miliband back to lead it.

The same Frank Field who admired Thatcher so much

[Colburn_Claret]

The same Frank Field who admired Thatcher so much

The same Frank Field who has done so much for Pensioners

[joey13]

The same Frank Field who has done so much for Pensioners

The same Frank Field who did nothing for pensioners when in power other than increase the pension age

[ClaretMoffitt]

The reason for the viciousness of the hard left is simple. They think that anyone who doesn't think like them are evil, therefore they feel their abuse is not only justified, but actually righteous.

[Billy Balfour]

Obsessed.

[IanMcL]

And to be fair to the actual Labour party, the big guns like McDonnell and Owen Jones backed her.

Owen Jones is hardly a big gun in anyone's head apart from his own......and he is nothing to do with Labour.
Just a social self publicist.

[AndrewJB]

£3.00 per year Available for those aged 14-19, students and current or former members of the British Armed Forces

I apologise. I thought you were referring to the £3 memberships that "so many" Tories took advantage of (architects of their own destruction) to vote for Corbyn the first time.

[Lancasterclaret]

When you say "architects of their own destruction" you do need to bear in mind that when they paid it, the Labour party wasn't in power, and it still isn't in power.

I know its hard for Labour to grasp, but the amount of elections that Labour have won under Corbyn are exactly the same as amount of times on here labour members have admitted there is an anti-semitism problem in their own party.

And this is from someone who thinks the tories are batshit mental.

[AndrewJB]

Course, its all a conspiracy theory.

Even the leader of the Labour party says it isn't and that they have a problem with anti-semitism.

Still, you keep telling yourself its all being blown out of all proportion.

The conspiracy theory I'm referring to is the one pushed by the media of a cull of Labour MPs.

The anti-semitism issue is just what it is.

[Lancasterclaret]

"media conspiracy"

You are the most blatant Labour apologist on here, and you are a member of the green party!

[Lancasterclaret]

This is a thread on twitter

https://twitter.com/Dr_Ellie/status/1039624521412747265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndrewJB]

When you say "architects of their own destruction" you do need to bear in mind that when they paid it, the Labour party wasn't in power, and it still isn't in power.

I know its hard for Labour to grasp, but the amount of elections that Labour have won under Corbyn are exactly the same as amount of times on here labour members have admitted there is an anti-semitism problem in their own party.

And this is from someone who thinks the tories are batshit mental.

I think Labour face two main challenges: The first is party unity, and the second is in getting their message out (and part of this is in overcoming negative perceptions that voters have, whether rightly or wrongly). These challenges have dogged Labour for longer than Corbyn has been leader, and would (I believe) be just as bad (though in different ways) had any of the other candidates (even David Milliband) become leader.

Party unity - however bad it seems now - is actually up a lot from when Corbyn first became leader. As he's overcome efforts from within the party to break him, his position has become stronger. The backing of the membership was what gave him the legitimacy to resist the attempts to get rid of him, and now through internal elections more of the party is aligned with his ideas, and there is pressure from the grassroots for MPs to show more unity. Labour will always have divisions, however with Corbyn secure in his position it's unlikely he'll face the challenges to his leadership he's had in the past.

Getting the message out: Labour's successes under Corbyn have been in increasing the membership, and in setting out policies clearly different to the Tories. The policies aren't going to please everyone, however they've proved more popular than experts predicted. The new recent announcements of a digital strategy, and extension of worker's rights are all positive things, and even more Tory voters would like to see the railways re-nationalised than would like to see them kept in private hands.

The problem facing Labour is the implacable enmity of the mainstream media. In my opinion they would face this anyway. Perhaps not quite as bad as Corbyn's had it, but the biggest selling newspapers are all firmly behind the Tory Party. You could argue that Tony Blair got the Sun onboard, but then at what cost? For me Labour could overcome the press hostility in two ways. Firstly they have a better social media presence than the Tories do. This might not reach older voters as much, but one success from the last election was over a million young voters registering to vote. The second is in the power of the membership. If ten percent of the membership can be persuaded to canvas door to door just once, that's nearly a thousand canvassers for every seat in the country. In the last election most canvassing was focused on seats Labour already held, and the result was much higher majorities. Aimed at winning Tory held seats instead that could bring a Labour victory.

As for Labour not winning the last election - the Tories started the campaign with a twenty point lead in the polls. I don't remember your prediction on here, but I doubt it was "Labour victory" Blair won three elections, but do you think he would have won in 2010? I understand and agree that elections aren't just about who has a better manifesto, but I think Labour will have learned many lessons from the last one.

As always with these things, time will tell.

[Lancasterclaret]

Time will tell, but the anti-semitism thing will kill their chances unless they sort it out.

[AndrewJB]

This is a thread on twitter

https://twitter.com/Dr_Ellie/status/1039624521412747265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm unashamed to stand up for Corbyn's Labour Party, because I don't agree with the kicking he gets.

The Twitter thread is awful, and it's shocking that Jewish people in Britain fear for their safety to the degree they're planning to leave. if you're going to tell me Corbyn is responsible for the way these people feel, then I entirely disagree. He couldn't be clearer in his opposition to anti-semitism, and spent his life fighting racism. This is why I feel compelled to defend him, because at a time when it's common to see immigrants or minorities blamed for our country's problems, he's a politician who has never done this.

[Lancasterclaret]

Again, this is another thread where a white person is refusing to see stuff from the point of view of (in this case) a Jewish person.

[Jakubclaret]

Time will tell, but the anti-semitism thing will kill their chances unless they sort it out.

The only thing which will sort it out is if the people baying for his blood stop distorting his words & actions in a warped context, he a lot of things but he isn't racist or anti semetic in my view, probably won't a popular 1 some things aren't.

[Lancasterclaret]

And again, you have the weird situation where a internal Labour meeting to de-select an pro-Israel MP is screened live......

On Iranian state tv.

Stuff like that will have people wondering what the hell is going on

[Chobulous]

It keeps being said that he couldn't be clearer about his opposition to anti-semitism, but that is just not true. He is far from clear about it. He does not come out and categorically condemn it in all of its forms, he does nothing to root out those in his party who express those views. When examples of on-line abuse of Jewish MPs is brought to his attention he does nothing to bring the culprits to book. What he does do is try to discipline those who publicly criticise him on the matter, that is until the outrage expressed on that course of action forces a u-turn. He may have fought racism all of his career but that fight seems now to have been very selective.
In my younger days I was heavily involved in left wing politics, in the Labour Party, ANL etc and I came across anti-semitism then, but that was from the nut-jobs in the SWP who always turned up like a bad smell on picket lines, at rallies, marches etc. Or you heard it from narcissists like Vanessa Redgrave. At grass roots level it was non-existent and I am convinced that that is still the case, the problem is the nut-jobs seem to have taken over the asylum.

[houseboy]

"ungovernable" or "unable to govern" ? Either way, sections of the media seem to be telling us this is so on a daily basis.
It makes you wonder why such an apparently washed-up outfit is still worthy of such headlines or air time.
Taio, we don't need a strong opposition, we need a government, any kind of government.

So that kind of rules out the Tories then I suppose.

[houseboy]

And again, you have the weird situation where a internal Labour meeting to de-select an pro-Israel MP is screened live......

On Iranian state tv.

Stuff like that will have people wondering what the hell is going on

In anything like a decent world we should have no 'pro-Israeli' MP's.

[AndrewJB]

Again, this is another thread where a white person is refusing to see stuff from the point of view of (in this case) a Jewish person.

I can do nothing more than empathise with how awful it must feel to be so afraid of the future. Empathising doesn't mean throwing away all of your other critical faculties too.Her view doesn't accord with any other Jewish person I know. And she provides no evidence for feeling the way she does. When someone says; "Muslims are taking over the country" I can consider the facts for myself, and come to a different conclusion. I can do the same with the spectre of future pogroms in the UK.

What I didn't do was dismiss her tweet as nonsense, just because she writes for the Mail on Sunday. Although I find it odd that when her paper attacked Ed Milliband's father in an anti-semitic way she was curiously silent.

[Lancasterclaret]

So its exactly the same as someone like Tommy Robinson saying the muslims are taking over then?

Uh huh

I think Jeremy Corbyns Labour really are missing out on an acolyte with you it has to be said.

[AndrewJB]

So its exactly the same as someone like Tommy Robinson saying the muslims are taking over then?

Uh huh

I think Jeremy Corbyns Labour really are missing out on an acolyte with you it has to be said.

You know very well I didn’t say it’s “exactly the same” as Tommy Robinson, but it’s my opinion as someone, like you, who studied history at university that the likelihood of Britain becoming institutionally anti-Semitic (let alone like 30’s Germany) under a Corbyn government is zero. Your SundayMail columnist has my empathy, and I share her dislike of anti-semitism but not her outlook on the future.

[Lancasterclaret]

Correction Andy, i used to think that the UK has no danger of falling in a far right or far left government.

Everything that we stand for, absolutely everything has been turned on its head in the last few years, though I do admit the possibility is still very low.

For what it is worth, it is very complacent to think that the current actions of JC and his cronies are not worrying (and yes, exactly the same could be said of the other lot).

[Jakubclaret]

So its exactly the same as someone like Tommy Robinson saying the muslims are taking over then?

Uh huh

I think Jeremy Corbyns Labour really are missing out on an acolyte with you it has to be said.

To fully understand Tommy's ideology you have to differentiate between what he says & what others claim he has said, & then & only then you will know he isn't against Islam under a peaceful interpretation (what it should be anyway) but opposed to nutjobs hijacking the religion & interpretating it in a sinister way. People tend to be kneejerk without researching thoroughly & twist things out of context, file under Corbyn to certain degree opposite ends of a wide spectrum.

[Lancasterclaret]

You want to die on a hill defending Tommy Robinson, you crack on Jakub.

[Jakubclaret]

Just more knowledge about this particular subject, it you interpret that as me being defensive that upto you, I research before I state.

[Lancasterclaret]

if you have researched Tommy Robinson then you'd use his real name at a guess, and then probably list his criminal convictions.

but hey, thats just what I'd do.

[Wexford_Claret]

I await your post setting out what position the Labour party is really in.

Membership of 600,000.

Won best share of vote since 2001 last year.

Biggest swing for Labour vote in many decades last year.

Holding their own in opinion polls despite one of the biggest smear campaigns ever by the British media being taken out on their democratically elected leader.

Massive public support for most major policies, such as nationalisation of key public services and abolition of tuition fees.

Only one thing holding the party back, and that’s the MPs who fail to get behind the leadership and the members that elected them.

[Lancasterclaret]

its not though is it?

I'm really liking the love you all have for your leader.

But if you are not a Labour member then there is quite a bit to be concerned about.

[Wexford_Claret]

its not though is it?

I'm really liking the love you all have for your leader.

But if you are not a Labour member then there is quite a bit to be concerned about.

Like what? The fact he can’t magically stop Brexit?

All I’m concerned about when it comes to the British left is the fact we have a party and a leader with policies which clearly appeal to the electorate, and not enough people with power backing them.

[Lancasterclaret]

Er, no

Have you actually read the thread?

[Wexford_Claret]

Er, no

Have you actually read the thread?

Yes, it’s a load of the usual Daily Mail nonsense. Corbyn’s a mad Trotskyist-Stalinist (nope, I don’t get how that works either) anti-Semite. And so are all Momentum members.

[Jakubclaret]

if you have researched Tommy Robinson then you'd use his real name at a guess, and then probably list his criminal convictions.

but hey, thats just what I'd do.

It's the last thing I'm concerned about when conducting a character assessment regarding people's previous criminal convictions, I've never personally met the person or engaged in a conversation with the person on that basis it'd wouldn't be fair for me to judge & criticize not constructively anyhow.