Pope or Heaton

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:17 pm

With Pope now looking at being back in December, who would you look at cashing in on in January?

Its clear we are well stocked on keepers, but way short on wingers and central midfielders.

With Hart clearly now number one and easily the best of the three, there is a case to even cash in on both while their stock is high and value equally high and personally would look to move both on. Could feasibly get towards £50m for the pair while still having a top class keeper and good quality backup in Lindegard.

That money, coupled with what we didnt spend in the window will mean we will hopefully be able to build a midfield capable of keeping us in the league this year and bring in a future number one to boot. Hart should also still have another 3 or 4 seasons at this level.

Both have been great servents, but like Arfield, Marney, Boyd and co before we need to prioritise the future over sentiment.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:21 pm

Without a doubt I’d be getting rid of Heaton. It’s clear that his legs have gone and Dyche no longer rates him

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:24 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:With Hart clearly now number one and easily the best of the three, there is a case to even cash in on both while their stock is high and value equally high and personally would look to move both on. Could feasibly get towards £50m for the pair while still having a top class keeper and good quality backup in Lindegard.

“Easily the best of the three”, not sure about that.
Lindegaard was fine in his appearance but we need 3 and the money generated is irrelevant. We have an ENORMOUS dry powder store.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:27 pm

piston broke wrote:“Easily the best of the three”, not sure about that.
Lindegaard was fine in his appearance but we need 3 and the money generated is irrelevant. We have an ENORMOUS dry powder store.

Its not just the money - its pointless having 2 valuable assets becoming disillusioned with being out of contention and also losing form, fitness and transfer value.

Europa would have been a huge opportunity to keep 2 of the 3 happy. We dont have that luxury now.

Hart is the best. His career proves that. His performance at home to United last week was as good as any I have seen for us in a long time. Hopefully the midfield and defence can start to protect him. We have already conceded the most shots this season. And thats down to our lack of options in front of him.

£50m on top of any dry powder would buy us a real quality midfield.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:27 pm

MRG wrote:Without a doubt I’d be getting rid of Heaton. It’s clear that his legs have gone and Dyche no longer rates him

His hands have gone IMO!

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:27 pm

I'd sell Pope as he'd generate the best return. If you sell Heaton then it's only a matter of time until a bigger team wants Pope, then you need to replace two keepers. If Hart really does recapture his best form then they'll also be bigger sides looking at him.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:30 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:With Hart ... easily the best of the three,

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Tall Paul wrote:

Anything to back up that he isnt?

England caps?
Premier League Titles and other domestic honours?
Premier League Clean sheets?
Golden Glove awards?
PRemier League team of the year?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:44 pm

Number of goals he lets in? It's undoubted fact that Man City with Hart won more Premier League titles than Burnley/Charlton with Pope and Burnley/Bristol City with Heaton. But I wouldn't ascribe that entirely to the quality of the goalkeepers. There were other factors.

If Hart is easily the best, I'd cash in on him and play Pope.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:45 pm

I would sell Hart if Pope is fit.

He IS the weakest link

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:46 pm

Id keep Pope. Has the potential to become better than Hart, his value could still soar and he probably will be ok being eased back into the fold for the second half of the season

Id look to cash in on Heaton and strengthen other areas although we could offload Ward and have Heaton as backup left back just to send Mrs Ward....I mean Hibsclaret doolally

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:49 pm

To be honest id give ledzgins? A run out at some stage I can't really comment on him as to his ability as I've never seen him play....like lots on here. Going back to heaton I saw him this morning in burnley he looked to be struggling with his walking but what concerned me he was wearing glasses having just left specsavers so there could be issues there... He had a patch covering the left one. Probably summat and nowt.but that wobbly leg was a concern.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:51 pm

There's something about Hart that doesn't convince, although he played well against the turks and man u we have shipped far too many goals.....

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Heaton to go for me

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:07 pm

dsr wrote:
If Hart is easily the best, I'd cash in on him and play Pope.

In what sense would that ever make sense!?!

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:08 pm

Wow, can't believe some of the comments. Let's not go slagging off our players, they deserve more respect than that. Let's hope we don't lose Pope or Heaton. I'm still to be convinced by Hart....yes some great saves but also letting a lot of goals in. But I welcome him to the team and I am open for him to show us just how good he is.

Sean is going to have some very difficult choices when they are all fit. Pity we aren't this strong up front.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:08 pm

it's too complicated, I love Heaton and Pope and Hart has done well. I think the best decision is to sell all 3 and bring back Joe Neenan

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:10 pm

dsr wrote:It's undoubted fact that Man City with Hart won more Premier League titles than Burnley/Charlton with Pope and Burnley/Bristol City with Heaton. But I wouldn't ascribe that entirely to the quality of the goalkeepers. There were other factors.

This argument never makes sense either.

'He is only good because he plays for the best team!'

Well of course.

Would United have won countless leagues without Schmeichael
Chelsea without Cech
Arsenal without Seaman
Liverpool without Grobelaar

etc etc

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:12 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:In what sense would that ever make sense!?!

In the sense that I don't think Hart is the best at all. If the selling price of the third goalkeeper is higher than the selling price of the first goalkeeper, then obviously selling the third is the thing to do.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:14 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:There's something about Hart that doesn't convince, although he played well against the turks and man u we have shipped far too many goals.....

No need.

The anaswer to why we have conceded so many isnt the keeper. Its the shots he is facing. He has zero protection. He has already faced the most shots this season. Luckily he has made the most saves too. Those against United were top class.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:15 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:This argument never makes sense either.

'He is only good because he plays for the best team!'

Well of course.

Would United have won countless leagues without Schmeichael
Chelsea without Cech
Arsenal without Seaman
Liverpool without Grobelaar

etc etc

Course it makes sense. Who was the better midfielder, Steven Gerrard or Nicky Butt? Is it the one with most titles?

Hart has proved that in the past he has been a very good goalkeeper, and there is evidence to suggest he still is. There is also evidence that Pope is a very good goalkeeper. The suggestion that Hart was winning titles five years ago when Pope was playing non-league is only marginally relevant to their future form.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:17 pm

dsr wrote:In the sense that I don't think Hart is the best at all. If the selling price of the third goalkeeper is higher than the selling price of the first goalkeeper, then obviously selling the third is the thing to do.

But Hart isnt the 3rd keeper.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:22 pm

The numpty brigade out in force....

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:37 pm

I'd sell Hart - Heaton is our club captain and defensive organiser and had not put a foot wrong until his injury - he deserves his opportunity to get his shirt back

Pope - no one will buy in Jan as he will not have proved his fitness or form by then

Hart currently gets the piff taken out of him every game so maybe a "move" back to a "big" club will help him regain his status after his rehabilitation here

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:37 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:No need.

The anaswer to why we have conceded so many isnt the keeper. Its the shots he is facing. He has zero protection. He has already faced the most shots this season. Luckily he has made the most saves too. Those against United were top class.

We were top for shots faced last season as well.

Maybe he's putting the defence under pressure by not claiming high balls as they're used to

: Pope.JPG (50.48 KiB) Viewed 2773 times

: Hart.JPG (118.51 KiB) Viewed 2773 times

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Anything to back up that he isnt?

England caps?
Premier League Titles and other domestic honours?
Premier League Clean sheets?
Golden Glove awards?
PRemier League team of the year?

The other two were chosen ahead of him for England this summer.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:48 pm

There's a big difference between a better pedigree, and better ability in the here and now. Hart has the best pedigree and won far more caps, trophies etc but does Gareth Southgate agree that Hart is better than Pope? They're not miles apart, but Hart isn't clearly better.
The signing of Hart can only mean an exit for Heaton for me. He's at an age where he needs to play, and would still command a decent fee. Pope can still learn from Hart, and can afford a bit more time playing second fiddle if Hart's in form. Heaton deserves to be no.1 somewhere to see out his best years, of which there may be only a couple left.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:58 pm

Maybe the reason Hart faces the most shots is because he does not organise the defence like Heaton or Pope.

Sure he made good saves but if had set the defenders right he would no need to

I felt very safe when Tom played against Olympiacos and only conceded as we were stretched late looking for goals

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:09 pm

Down_Rover wrote:Maybe the reason Hart faces the most shots is because he does not organise the defence like Heaton or Pope.

Sure he made good saves but if had set the defenders right he would no need to

I felt very safe when Tom played against Olympiacos and only conceded as we were stretched late looking for goals

What about the first leg?

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:56 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:What about the first leg?

I was talking about the second leg

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:27 am

Hart to go.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:32 am

Hart isn't the best and it's difficult to choose between them. Hart won things in the past and we are looking at now. I think I'd keep Pope for long term.

The Hung Juror · Post by **The Hung Juror** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:55 am

Vegas Claret wrote:it's too complicated, I love Heaton and Pope and Hart has done well. I think the best decision is to sell all 3 and bring back Joe Neenan

You can't be serious. Mark Kendall is the man to call.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:52 am

Two of the best keepers in the PL are currently injured (one admittedly just returning and understandably a little rusty) and Hart is automatically the best of the three?

Are you on one of your wind ups?

Hart ISN’T clearly the best of the three. He’s the FITTEST of the three currently, but because he’s played for England for five years or so and recently saved a penalty doesn’t make him Lev Yashin.

In answer to the original question, which I think is an interesting one, I’d suggest it comes down to two factors. Form, and what the club want. If we want to put an extension on the dry powder store, we sell the valuable asset. That would be pope. He recovers from injury and goes back in the side. He gets match fit and recovers the sort of form he had pre-injury and he’s on the market. The other two are at the end of their respective careers so after Burnley I can only see them dropping down the leagues in order to play.

I’d like to keep Pope, and whichever of the other two main keepers are the best.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:08 pm

The Hung Juror wrote:You can't be serious. Mark Kendall is the man to call.

nah, Neenan was more consistent in being amazing.................ly bad

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:22 pm

"With Pope now looking at being back in December, who would you look at cashing in on in January?"

Neither get rid of Hart instead.

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:38 pm

If Pope comes back just as strong as last season, he will be on a few teams wanted list at some point. As much as we would like to keep him, we wont be able to and we shouldn't stand in his way. So Pope to be sold. Once Heaton is back up and running and gets some game time (first team or otherwise) to prove he is back to his best prior to his injury, he should become our number one. I presume he will also be happy to commit to us long term. So Hart also to be sold for me. I will leave it to the management to choose the number 2, whether it is Lindegard (sp) or a new find a la Heaton / Pope.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:56 pm

Gordon Banks please, he's won the world cup!

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:07 pm

Pope
Heaton
Hart

Pope is obv our best keeper coming off last season, immense effort up there with de Geas stats

Heatons been a good servant and kept us up last time

Hart has been awful for torino and west ham last two seasons and this year has let a lot of goals in, really not sure about some posts saying hes back to his best. Like i said though has had two good games so far.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:16 pm

The issue is: can TH regain his old form?
will NP be ready for first team action early enough?
will JH start coming for crosses?

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:19 pm

Let's not forget that last season we were applauding Hart for saving a back pass. Most teams still do.
He's still a capable keeper but it's been many years since he had a season at the level that Heaton and Pope have been. Fantastic to have as cover though.