ARTICLE: Burnley’s Nemesis: Jimmy Greaves

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm

Another excellent piece from Tim Quelch - not an ex-Claret this time but a player who tormented us far too often.

See link
http://www.uptheclarets.com/burnleys-ne ... my-greaves" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:39 pm

A nice tribute to a very fine player, so light on his feet and what a left foot.
Some of us were very lucky to see him and Jimmy McIlroy on the same pitch.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:41 pm

He was unbelievable wasn't he? Still the best I've ever seen.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:48 pm

Certainly the best natural goal scorer I’ve seen up to now.

As Bobby Charlton once said about Jimmy McIlroy “he was a bloody nuisance” can also be said about Jimmy.

By the way I was at the Spurs v Nottingham Forest league match in 1962 when Greaves score Four! They could do little to stop him and as said was a real thorn in the side against Burnley.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:19 pm

The best goalscorer I have ever seen and I've seen a few. I know that sometimes stats. can be misleading but his aren't. It really does read like something from a boy's comic. I've commented so many times on here about him that there's nothing else.left to say. Just an incredibly gifted footballer.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:52 pm

Fantastic finisher.
He wound me owd un up with his auto?biography where he? wrote that the difference between Spurs and Burnley was the production system. This was at the time when we had won the Central League twice with a host of players who would become internationals and moneybags Spurs just bought players in.

Was the mug a wind up? There are mugs about that can change due to heat.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:41 pm

Superb article. Greaves comes over as very thoughtful.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:12 pm

Aye, good article on a great goalscorer.

Anyone want name the Burnley players in the two photos?...........Six in the first, I think......and two in the second.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:25 pm

My little Greaves story.

I met him in 1986 at a dinner at the Turf. I had a long chat with him and he was an absolute gent to talk to. During the conversation he suddenly said he needed to speak to someone he’d just seen walk in, that someone was Jimmy McIlroy. Greaves came back over and said that Jimmy Mac was the greatest player he ever played against.

Not just the greatest goal scorer I’ve seen but also clearly a great judge.

So sad to see him how he is now but what a player.

Suratclaret · Post by **Suratclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:29 pm

Lethal in and around the six yard box. I'm sure I read somewhere that he said that he would have scored even more goals if he had played in the same side as Jimmy Mac.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:32 pm

Peter Sillett with Jimmy in the first pic. Chelsea.

Les Latcham, David Merrington, Frank Casper for Colin Blant, Colin Waldron and Adam Blacklaw.

The bottom pic's to small.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:36 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Peter Sillett with Jimmy in the first pic. Chelsea.

Les Latcham, David Merrington, Frank Casper for Colin Blant, Colin Waldron and Adam Blacklaw.

The bottom pic's to small.

Blacklaw had left for Blackburn by the time of this match.

Agree with Latcham, Merrington, Casper and Waldron.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:43 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Blacklaw had left for Blackburn by the time of this match.

Agree with Latcham, Merrington, Casper and Waldron.

Ah must have been Thomson then.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:46 pm

Aye Harry Thomson, it was.

Adam is the keeper in the second photo from 1957. It was one of his earliest games for us.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:48 pm

I was going for Fred Smith, not Latcham. And Brian O'Neil instead of Blant, although perhaps John Angus?

Harry Thomson was a guess at the goalkeeper.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:52 pm

Definitely Latcham.

Smith and O'Neil were not involved in the match.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:My little Greaves story.

I met him in 1986 at a dinner at the Turf. I had a long chat with him and he was an absolute gent to talk to. During the conversation he suddenly said he needed to speak to someone he’d just seen walk in, that someone was Jimmy McIlroy. Greaves came back over and said that Jimmy Mac was the greatest player he ever played against.

Not just the greatest goal scorer I’ve seen but also clearly a great judge.

So sad to see him how he is now but what a player.

Just to continue on this Jimmy Greaves/Jimmy Mc theme. There is an iconic photo taken from the FA Cup tie 3rd round at a frozen White Hart Lane in 1963 showing a melee of players surrounding Adam Blacklaw and Terry Dyson as the two clashed with Greaves and Mc,both wearing No10 shirts, distancing themselves from all that was ugly in that game and just looking on.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:01 pm

There's one other Burnley player in the second photo, between Greaves and Martin Chivers.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:04 pm

Just found this. Don't know how accurate they are.

The picture says it shows Greaves third goal. He scored three in the 7-0 win of the 68/69 season:

https://www.worldfootball.net/report/pr ... urnley-fc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the caption is wrong and it is the 5-0 win, then:

https://www.worldfootball.net/report/pr ... urnley-fc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

O'Neil apparently played in both games (I was at both games but can't remember these sorts of things!).

Anyway I go for John Angus, third from right.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:05 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:There's one other Burnley player in the second photo, between Greaves and Martin Chivers.

I thought that was Casper.

CHEWBACCA · Post by **CHEWBACCA** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:07 pm

Way before my time but another great piece from Tim.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:08 pm

Hipper, Casper is just to the left of Waldron (just above Thomson's shorts).

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:11 pm

Hipper wrote:I thought that was Casper.

Think it's Willie Irvine.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:13 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Think it's Willie Irvine.

Nop not Willie.. he's not in either game

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:17 pm

Dave Thomas is my guess. He definitely played in the game.

So, from left to right, Thomas, Latcham, Merrington, Casper, Thomson and Waldron.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:22 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Dave Thomas is my guess. He definitely played in the game.

So, from left to right, Thomas, Latcham, Merrington, Casper, Thomson and Waldron.

Yes I think your right.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:28 pm

Which brings us to the 1957 photo.

Adam is definitely in goal and I think the defender may be Bobby Seith.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:32 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:The best goalscorer I have ever seen and I've seen a few. I know that sometimes stats. can be misleading but his aren't. It really does read like something from a boy's comic. I've commented so many times on here about him that there's nothing else.left to say. Just an incredibly gifted footballer.

I met him about 10 years ago at a book signing here in Milton Keynes
I was awestruck when I held out my hand and asked him if I could shake the hand of England's greatest ever goalscorer
He obliged of course

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:33 pm

The Claret below Jimmys left hand can only be Dave Thomas,it’s his walk.
Then Merrington above Latcham.
John Angus, after he’d changed his hair style to forward from sweep, very like Fred Smiths.
Thomson and Waldron
If you can enlarge it enough there is a left eye between Thomsons shoulder and Waldrons elbow, you can also see the socks. Even before I checked the sides I thought Arthur Bellamy and he did play.

welsbyswife · Post by **welsbyswife** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:He was unbelievable wasn't he? Still the best I've ever seen.

Well before my time but my dad also says he was the best he has seen and a number of people from that era have said that to me, some Spurs fans and some clarets. He must have been some player.

Better Call Saul · Post by **Better Call Saul** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:56 am

Great article on Jimmy Greaves Tim.
You mentioned him scoring a hat trick at White Hart Lane in 1968 against the Clarets in a 7 nil thrashing.
I went to that game and if my memory serves we right, it should have been 7-1 but we missed a late penalty with the score at 7-0. Does anyone remember who missed it?
It could have been Frank Casper.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:05 am

The exceptional striker of all time.

Naff work rate!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:08 am

IanMcL wrote:The exceptional striker of all time.

Naff work rate!

You don't score the number of goals he scored with naff work rate, not even in the 1960s.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:13 am

ClaretTony wrote:You don't score the number of goals he scored with naff work rate, not even in the 1960s.

I see it's not just modern day players that IanMcL talks rubbish about!

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:51 am

piston broke wrote:The Claret below Jimmys left hand can only be Dave Thomas,it’s his walk.

Well I still think that it's Casper! Firstly the head looks more like him then Thomas. Secondly he looks taller then Thomas. Thirdly Thomas usually had his socks down, although whether he did at this point in his career I'm not sure.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:47 pm

Hipper wrote:Well I still think that it's Casper! Firstly the head looks more like him then Thomas. Secondly he looks taller then Thomas. Thirdly Thomas usually had his socks down, although whether he did at this point in his career I'm not sure.

Fair point about the socks.

tally · Post by **tally** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:45 pm

and in that 7-2 drubbing on a night when if I remember it literally chucked it down was it not Sammy Todd who hammered in the last goal to round off the scoring?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:39 pm

ClaretTony wrote:You don't score the number of goals he scored with naff work rate, not even in the 1960s.

Jimmy Greaves was often quoted as saying that he did not run around closing down others. He saw his task as operating centrally and then getting to the right place to score a goal, quicker than the defender.

He was told he should work harder...He preferred to be ready to score. Probably why Hurst was preferred I the WC Final.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:41 pm

IanMcL wrote:Jimmy Greaves was often quoted as saying that he did not run around closing down others. He saw his task as operating centrally and then getting to the right place to score a goal, quicker than the defender.

He was told he should work harder...He preferred to be ready to score. Probably why Hurst was preferred I the WC Final.

It was.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:00 pm

tally wrote:and in that 7-2 drubbing on a night when if I remember it literally chucked it down was it not Sammy Todd who hammered in the last goal to round off the scoring?

Early in that same season Spurs lost 7-2 at Blackburn. I know because I was there. Sept 1963 and we were away at Everton where we won 4-3 but I wasn't allowed to go because of Everton's reputation so I had to make do with a visit to Ewood Park with my older cousin looking after me. Great time to be a Claret.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:12 pm

That 4-3 at Everton must have been the game where Bellamy scored a hat-trick if I’m not mistaken?

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:18 pm

South West Claret. wrote:That 4-3 at Everton must have been the game where Bellamy scored a hat-trick if I’m not mistaken?

Yes it was. All scored in the first half and we led 4-1 at half time. My older brother went probably with 'Frenchclaret' there as well.

KeighleyClaret · Post by **KeighleyClaret** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:24 pm

The April 1964 match v Spurs was my first evening match. I was 9 at the time.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:38 pm

My first ever spurs match Burnley 5 Spurs 1

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:42 am

IanMcL wrote:Jimmy Greaves was often quoted as saying that he did not run around closing down others. He saw his task as operating centrally and then getting to the right place to score a goal, quicker than the defender.

He was told he should work harder...He preferred to be ready to score. Probably why Hurst was preferred I the WC Final.

Nothing to do with the fact that Greaves was injured then?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:46 am

fidelcastro wrote:Nothing to do with the fact that Greaves was injured then?

Nothing at all! It was a choice made by the manager.
Greece's started the tournament. Got a knock and was rested, fit again but Hurst had worked the front line well.

Decision...worker or goal poacher?
Answer...worker.....who went on to score a world cup hat trick in extra time.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:54 am

A knock that required fourteen stitches?

Righto then. I knew they were tough in those days but...

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:04 am

'Got a knock'

Really? That's what you call a knock? A dubious hat-trick in a World Cup Final can never be taken away from his accomplishments and neither should it but as far as quality goes there was the proverbial 'country mile' and a few big fields between Hurst and Jimmy Greaves.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:25 am

fidelcastro wrote:Nothing to do with the fact that Greaves was injured then?

Greaves had been injured but Hurst came in and got the winner against the Argies and played so well it would have been unfair to drop him.
Greaves was fit again by the final but history proves Alf got it right.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:32 am

He did score the winner v Argentina but England got lucky that day. They were outplayed by a side who had 10 men for more than an hour. But as you say the history books say England went through to the next round and Hurst kept his place.