Taylor and Lennon

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:51 pm

Worst players on the pitch today.

Taylor can’t defend. Doesn’t close down quickly enough. Ball watches. He makes Wardy look like Maldini or Ward makes him look like Jean-Alain Boumsong.

Lennon does a grand impression of a statue

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Here he is hahaha

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:29 pm

And here you are.....

Not defending Taylor today? Just like Taylor not defending today. He is not good enough. One win in 16 with him. Virtually all of Wolves clear cut chances were down to him either ball watching or not pressing.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:35 pm

Does anybody still think Bardsley and Taylor should be selected ahead of Lowton and Ward?

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:39 pm

Wondered how long it would be before Hibsclaret appeared telling everyone it was all because Wardy wasn't playing!

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:44 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Wondered how long it would be before Hibsclaret appeared telling everyone it was all because Wardy wasn't playing!

It was partly because Ward wasn’t playing, partly because Lowton wasn’t playing, partly because Taylor has no idea on defending (I.e his main job), partly because Bardsley is past it.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:46 pm

taio wrote:Does anybody still think Bardsley and Taylor should be selected ahead of Lowton and Ward?

Has anyone ever?

Bardsley get pelters every game he plays, and rightly so.
I'm yet to see anyone rate him over Lowton.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:46 pm

Any answers for Taio? Jrgbfc or MRG?

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:52 pm

We were second best all over the pitch by miles. Don't think changing the full backs would have made a massive difference.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:55 pm

jrgbfc wrote:We were second best all over the pitch by miles. Don't think changing the full backs would have made a massive difference.

Think you should re read the question as you have not answered it

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:59 pm

Didn't think Taylor was our worst player by any means. Sadly Lennon is like playing with 10 men. When we defend as much as we do you need more directness from your wide players. One good cross was his contribution. WE would be better playing one of our midfielders there

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:06 pm

First half think he didn't do that badly. There were a number of times where he was exposed by the two Wolves men pushing down the flank and JGB not tracking back deep enough to help.

JBG seemed to help him much more just after the break and then JBG and Lennon swapped, which definitely didn't help. Wolves brought on Traore and Taylor struggled more from that point, but to be fair he (Traore) was bloody quick and I think a loft of defenders will have trouble with him.

Don't think he was our worst player.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:06 pm

Taylor was the weak link in the defence today and Wolves relentlessly targeted. He will have easier games but he looked way out of his depth today. I couldn’t believe how much space Traore was offered when he came on, incredible.

Bardsley was better and didn’t have a bad game in my opinion but Lowton and Ward should definitely come back into the side next week.

Lennon was abject, he was slow to get back into position to defend to the point that he was catching his breath whenever we needed him to help with the counter attack. Unfortunately until Brady is fit we don’t have any challengers for his position because he seems badly in need of a rest, and a spell as an impact sub could do everyone a favour.

Overall it was just a performance that I didn’t think we were capable of, even during this poor run of form. Very worrying indeed and I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall to see how Dyche spoke to the players after the game because that simply wasn’t anywhere near acceptable.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:08 pm

Taylor played well but Lennon was a passenger and Jack Cork is going through a serious lack of form which is worrying.Why McNeil doesn't get the shirt ahead of Lennon is beyond me

NickBFC · Post by **NickBFC** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:09 pm

Badly need Brady back, and badly need to sign a quality left back in January IMO. Ward's performances for a good few months haven't been at the level he's previously set. Taylor worries me - yes at times he is quite dangerous going forward, but his defensive positioning and nouse is a real cause for concern.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:10 pm

I like Lennon's workrate, but I have had a look at some stats on https://understat.com/team/Burnley/2018

Crikey.....

1. Lennon - 0.2 shots per 90 minutes and 0.2 passes leading to a shot per 90 minutes (i.e. one of each in 5 games)
I know this is a Lennon and Taylor thread but some other notables:
2. Wood - 1.15 and 0.29 on that same methodology, so he is also a huge problem currently
3. Vydra - 4.74 and 2.37 so he is the one glimmer of hope
4. Our expected goals goes up hugely when playing 4-4-1-1 and our expected goals conceded similarly goes down (quality of chances and chances conceded so is a different measure to the above)
5. Vokes and McNeil have been our two best players in terms of expected goals and expected assists respectively

Based on the above and other stats on there, if it were me I would be playing Vydra and Vokes up top, Lowton and Ward at full backs, Defour in the middle and Brady and Gudmundsson on the wings when Brady is fit. I think we will then start to perform again. Lennon, McNeil, Barnes, Bardsley, Taylor, Wood, Westwood and Hendrick all benched or left out altogether.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:19 pm

NickBFC wrote:His defensive positioning and nouse is a real cause for concern.

Which is exactly what you get from Ward

NickBFC · Post by **NickBFC** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:22 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Which is exactly what you get from Ward

I've been a big fan of Ward, but his performance have dropped over the past few months. I would certainly start him though ahead of Taylor, but I would have one eye on a replacement for both in January provided we're not all but relegated. I think this area requires improvement.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:23 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Which is exactly what you get from Ward

Not at Fulham you didn't, or against Wales for the national team.

It's all well and good blaming Taylor for everything but Dyche's tactics were the biggest reason we lost today. Shocking from him.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:29 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Not at Fulham you didn't, or against Wales for the national team.

It's all well and good blaming Taylor for everything but Dyche's tactics were the biggest reason we lost today. Shocking from him.

I assume you were at Fulham? He was exposed to mark Mitrovic for the 3rd and at least we looked like scoring that day.

The odd poorish performance is very different than someone who clearly can’t defend at all. Doing the basics is what gave us the platform for success last season. We can’t do the basics to a high standard with people at fullback unable to defend

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:33 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:We can’t do the basics to a high standard with people at fullback unable to defend

Dyche must have agreed with you when he dropped Ward for Taylor, then?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:36 pm

JBG and Lennon aren't a patch on Boyd and Arfield/Brady when it comes to defending and keeping shape, so you have what you may discrbe as average full backs getting run ragged

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:39 pm

There's not a single player who has played well this season over a number of games.
Blame who you want but the replacements haven't been good enough.

Hart saved us from an 8-0 thrashing today though.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:46 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Taylor played well....

He was bloody awful.

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:35 pm

You'd think Lennon would have an incentive to impress with players coming back who will threaten his place. The first Dwight O'Neill against Bournemouth. How may more chances is SD going to give him? I find it difficult to judge Taylor. Offensively he could be a major asset, especially with dead ball and his crossing but defensively he has a lot to learn.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:11 pm

An absolute waste of time debating Taylor with Hibs. I reckon he's caught Taylor in bed with their partner.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:28 pm

Sadly, Lennon is shot and a negative effect on team play. Taylor a shadow of a fit Ward.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:33 pm

Murger wrote:An absolute waste of time debating Taylor with Hibs. I reckon he's caught Taylor in bed with their partner.

Agreed, it’s a waste of time. The point remains that Ward isn’t the player that he was at the start of last season and is being phased out by Dyche. The fact that Taylor is terrible at the moment too doesn’t make Ward any better, it just means that we have two crap left backs

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:51 pm

Murger wrote:An absolute waste of time debating Taylor with Hibs. I reckon he's caught Taylor in bed with their partner.

And it descends once again. The resident chuckle brothers lower the tone because they don’t understand that a message board is for debate.

How anyone can write off Ward given the impact on our pre season et all this year is beyond me. Anyone who believes he is worse than Taylor as a left back does not understand the game.

Ward is the best left back we have had since the 70s and Taylor is very poor at the defensive part of the game. There really is no comparison.

And we have one win in the premier league with Taylor playing. One in 16 matches against Stoke

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:16 pm

I can't quite believe Taylor, watching him at Leeds he looked absolutely quality... Whipping in balls for fun.

Quite concerned with how easily he seemingly gets knocked off the ball and dispossessed.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:12 pm

Taylor is fine - needs a run of games and those infront of him to show more.

It’s the other full back Dyche selected you should have more concerns about.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:21 pm

Lowton needs to start-he is the only one that can put a telling cross into the box on a regular basis and when he gets possession he is always looking to make a telling forward pass. Taylor is a very good back up at LB. Lets not knock him. Lennon I am afraid contributes very little and a sad reflection of our squad depth

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:22 pm

Taylor was visibly blowing out of his arse - early in the first half!!! Hands on hips. Looked like something you would see on a sunday up towneley.

To say he is one of our younger players he is also very slow.

When he first came in I was optimistic. He has done nothing to show he is better than what Ward was.

Sadly Ward looks to be past it as well now.

If Gibson was fit we could at least have shook it up and gone 352.

But we cant even do that now.

whiffa · Post by **whiffa** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:35 pm

Don't worry, in January we'll probably sign another slow target man, another centre back and another goalkeeper so we'll be fine... ^^

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:32 pm

Bardsley was selected due to his good form (relative to the rest of the team) which I can understand.

Taylor was selected due to Wards poor form/knock.

I'd say a return to Lowton and Ward was a must.

Think lennon needs to be used as an impact sub for a few games too. I think McNeil would've been a better option in Sunday. Lennon was the worst of a poor bunch.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:33 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Taylor was visibly blowing out of his arse - early in the first half!!! Hands on hips. Looked like something you would see on a sunday up towneley.

To say he is one of our younger players he is also very slow.

When he first came in I was optimistic. He has done nothing to show he is better than what Ward was.

Sadly Ward looks to be past it as well now.

If Gibson was fit we could at least have shook it up and gone 352.

But we cant even do that now.

k

Way too early to write Ward off. He's been below par by his own high standards but nobody has had a good start to the season. Perhaps Hart and Hendrick aside

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:52 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:k

Way too early to write Ward off. He's been below par by his own high standards but nobody has had a good start to the season. Perhaps Hart and Hendrick aside

Absolutely and the best thing is that phenomenon known as Taylormania is on the wane.... surprise really given the knowledge of some of the shankleyesque views on here

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:05 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Absolutely and the best thing is that phenomenon known as Taylormania is on the wane.... surprise really given the knowledge of some of the shankleyesque views on here

You’re fairly obsessed with Stephen Ward aren’t you?

Are you related to him by any chance?

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:10 pm

It really makes me laugh how Hibs is, he’s like a jealous girlfriend. I’ve not seen a single post where anybody is raving about Taylor. People are simply saying that he’s currently the future and Ward is the past. Neither of them are good enough at this level currently. The difference is, Taylor ‘could’ improve, Ward will only get worse

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:21 pm

taio wrote:Does anybody still think Bardsley and Taylor should be selected ahead of Lowton and Ward?

It's been so blindingly obvious that those two should be playing that I can only assume that they are injured or (rightly) sulking at being left out in the cold for the Europa after getting us into it.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:48 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I like Lennon's workrate, but I have had a look at some stats on https://understat.com/team/Burnley/2018

Crikey.....

1. Lennon - 0.2 shots per 90 minutes and 0.2 passes leading to a shot per 90 minutes (i.e. one of each in 5 games)
I know this is a Lennon and Taylor thread but some other notables:
2. Wood - 1.15 and 0.29 on that same methodology, so he is also a huge problem currently
3. Vydra - 4.74 and 2.37 so he is the one glimmer of hope
4. Our expected goals goes up hugely when playing 4-4-1-1 and our expected goals conceded similarly goes down (quality of chances and chances conceded so is a different measure to the above)
5. Vokes and McNeil have been our two best players in terms of expected goals and expected assists respectively

Based on the above and other stats on there, if it were me I would be playing Vydra and Vokes up top, Lowton and Ward at full backs, Defour in the middle and Brady and Gudmundsson on the wings when Brady is fit. I think we will then start to perform again. Lennon, McNeil, Barnes, Bardsley, Taylor, Wood, Westwood and Hendrick all benched or left out altogether.

Just spotted this post. Understat is a great site, but it seems we're wasting our time posting about expected goals on here.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:53 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I like Lennon's workrate, but I have had a look at some stats on https://understat.com/team/Burnley/2018

Crikey.....

1. Lennon - 0.2 shots per 90 minutes and 0.2 passes leading to a shot per 90 minutes (i.e. one of each in 5 games)
I know this is a Lennon and Taylor thread but some other notables:
2. Wood - 1.15 and 0.29 on that same methodology, so he is also a huge problem currently
3. Vydra - 4.74 and 2.37 so he is the one glimmer of hope
4. Our expected goals goes up hugely when playing 4-4-1-1 and our expected goals conceded similarly goes down (quality of chances and chances conceded so is a different measure to the above)
5. Vokes and McNeil have been our two best players in terms of expected goals and expected assists respectively

Based on the above and other stats on there, if it were me I would be playing Vydra and Vokes up top, Lowton and Ward at full backs, Defour in the middle and Brady and Gudmundsson on the wings when Brady is fit. I think we will then start to perform again. Lennon, McNeil, Barnes, Bardsley, Taylor, Wood, Westwood and Hendrick all benched or left out altogether.

A shame this is real football and not a computer game. And I'm sure we would all start Brady and Defour, but there's a slight problem with that one.

Bfcshaun · Post by **Bfcshaun** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:37 pm

I can't understand the negativity that is currently aimed at Stephen Ward.
Granted he may be aging but if I am not misunderstood the co-commentator stated that ward had been struggling with a niggle on his knee for sometime.
Stephen Ward up to and including Leicester at home last season as been Burnleys most consistent and best performing left back in decades.
I would love Charlie Taylor to prove me wrong but can't see him being able to perform at this level. Also before anybody says he is a future centre half, that looked way off in the only 45 minutes he played there in a friendly.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:15 pm

I'll hold my hands up and say I wanted to see more of Charlie Taylor but he doesn't look ready for PL football at all. He always looks heavy legged, like he's done 90 minutes before the game even starts. Very odd. Lennon is a passenger and I'd rather see McNeil in the team personally.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:20 pm

MRG wrote:It really makes me laugh how Hibs is, he’s like a jealous girlfriend. I’ve not seen a single post where anybody is raving about Taylor. People are simply saying that he’s currently the future and Ward is the past. Neither of them are good enough at this level currently. The difference is, Taylor ‘could’ improve, Ward will only get worse

It really is nice when all but the most inept agree with your assessments over the last couple of weeks. Let’s all agree that Taylor could improve to become our best left back since the 70s.

Unfortunately he really is nowhere near...

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:31 pm

Steven Ward has been written off a few times, since he’s been at Burnley. He’s not been at his best, no denying that, but he still looks a better option than Taylor at the moment.

I remember my Leeds supporting mate telling me that although Taylor was very one footed (he wasn’t wrong there) we’d made the right choice of him over Robertson (if that was ever a possibility).

As it stands, I’d be pleased if Taylor turned out to be just half as good as Robertson. If he doesn’t improve sharpish, we definitely need to be looking at signing a left back in the very near future.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:08 pm

Ward is a better defender than Taylor full stop, and I'm not sure why Taylor doesn't like to bomb forward like he used to, so that positive of his game that was better than Ward's (as he does seem to have lost a yard or 2) seems to have gone (as it did with Darikwa, so not sure of that part of their game is getting coached out of them)So we have to go with a dependable defender in Ward. The problem we have is JBG is better on the right, and Lennon on the left (or should i say centre of the field doing nothing)is just not going to offer Ward any support at all. We need Brady back, but I thought McNeil offered way more than Lennon has done all season in the 2 games i have seen him, so if he is good enough he is old enough.