Think we have seen enough this season to realise we are in a dog fight. Looking like staying up will be a far greater achievement than finishing 7th last year

Badly let down by the Board-penny pinching over deals. You cannot tell me Rodriguez would have not have made more contribution than Vokes, Barnes and Wood in the first 5 games. If we had ambition we would have bought both Rodriguez and Vydra and got Bolasie on loan too (how the hell did Villa get him)

How often can we try different permutations of the same three hoping it "might come off". Vokes and Barnes were Championship players three years ago. Appreciate they have scored useful goals but doubt either would even make the bench at any of the other PL sides. Why has Vydra been given no more than about 20 minutes in the PL. He looks sharp with more running than the other 3 and more likely to turn defenders. SD says he needs to be match fit-again I saw the tracking back of some of our players today and they don't look as fit as last year .Why have we not scoured the market for "out of contract players" since the window shut.

Last years successes were built on organization, fitness, work rate, closing down, and keeping clean sheets. Now that confidence is going we are only doing this for parts of games-like today for the first 30 minutes

The PL has moved on and we have failed to read the signals since the win over Leicester. The four sides that failed badly in the window are Palace, Newcastle, Spurs and ourselves. Unsurprisingly Newcastle and us sit at one point-Spurs looked poor yesterday and simply don't look a top four side, and fortunately for Palace they have Zaha

Had we played well today I could get over the defeat but this playing badly is now becoming a recurring theme

But the real worry for me is who motivates SD-we are all human and he must be thinking where is our next point coming from.

On a long contract earning circa 75k a week - my god I feel for him
Not long ago he was happy to stay on a rolling one year deal whilst being linked in the tabloids with just about every job going
Coincidence that when none of those so called bigger clubs came in for him he decided to sign a fixed deal making him financially secure for life ?

His over-performance with BFC means he can command that. It was the talk of the media that little old Burnley finished 7th and I don't begrudge him. He got us promoted twice in three years don't forget on a shoe string
Maybe we need to look at the salaries of those responsible for getting new players in and see what they earn per new recruit

warksclaret wrote:Think we have seen enough this season to realise we are in a dog fight. Looking like staying up will be a far greater achievement than finishing 7th last year

Badly let down by the Board-penny pinching over deals. You cannot tell me Rodriguez would have not have made more contribution than Vokes, Barnes and Wood in the first 5 games. If we had ambition we would have bought both Rodriguez and Vydra and got Bolasie on loan too (how the hell did Villa get him)

How often can we try different permutations of the same three hoping it "might come off". Vokes and Barnes were Championship players three years ago. Appreciate they have scored useful goals but doubt either would even make the bench at any of the other PL sides. Why has Vydra been given no more than about 20 minutes in the PL. He looks sharp with more running than the other 3 and more likely to turn defenders. SD says he needs to be match fit-again I saw the tracking back of some of our players today and they don't look as fit as last year .Why have we not scoured the market for "out of contract players" since the window shut.

Last years successes were built on organization, fitness, work rate, closing down, and keeping clean sheets. Now that confidence is going we are only doing this for parts of games-like today for the first 30 minutes

The PL has moved on and we have failed to read the signals since the win over Leicester. The four sides that failed badly in the window are Palace, Newcastle, Spurs and ourselves. Unsurprisingly Newcastle and us sit at one point-Spurs looked poor yesterday and simply don't look a top four side, and fortunately for Palace they have Zaha

Had we played well today I could get over the defeat but this playing badly is now becoming a recurring theme

But the real worry for me is who motivates SD-we are all human and he must be thinking where is our next point coming from.

Did you see Rodriguez Friday night , no better than what we have ,and neither did Dawson

Easy to absolve Dyche of any blame but it’s not the full story. Why buy Vydra and not start him? Can’t blame fitness now.

Dyche has a lot of credit in the bank but he is as much to blame about the state of the squad as the board are.

pauliopaulio wrote:Why buy Vydra and not start him? Can’t blame fitness now.

Of course you can. He's just got back from injury. It's the reason he played for the under 23s. He's slowly building up match fitness and isn't being rushed into starting. It makes complete sense. And you even got a 'like' for that nonsense.

Rodriguez would not have made any difference today. Looking at this side we are short of 6 or 7 quality players

I would have gone with Vydra too to be fair. Only seen him twice-Olympiacos and today and he is at least going to stretch defenders. Also Lowton is one of our most creative players going forwards with balls down the channel or into the box. Bardsley has a habit of playing the ball back to Tarks

Vydra could have started - and he'd have come off after 45 minutes.

Yeah - superb decision that would have been.

What is not mentioned is that we have lost top quality played in Ings, Trippier and a good striker with pace in Gray. We have also lost midfield bite with Marney and workhorses like Arfield and Boyd. None had really been replaced and we are weaker for it. Keane was replaced by Tarks.

Why did we not try to get Ings on loan? I wonder if there is a problem.with him.and the club somewhere

FactualFrank wrote:Vydra could have started - and he'd have come off after 45 minutes.

Yeah - superb decision that would have been.

1. On what basis do you know he would only last a half?

2. We lost. We’re bottom of the league. Goals are at a premium. It’s not panic stations but it looks grim. I’m not sure what a superb decision would be

Can’t blame SD at all, we’re just not very good at theveven higher level of the prem, and without our best 2 players and any major signings things were always gonna be tough .Though tbf im surprised were being utterly dominated against the likes of Fulham and Wolves , with good finishing they could have scored 6+ today they really could .

I think Vydra will now start as will Wood and Lowton and we have to get into gear with our “ easiest” run of 3 games . I don’t think we’re as bad as we’ve been playing but it’s looking like a battle .

I thought SD looked a little shell shocked being interviewed after the match. I can't help thinking we have become too predictable and SD needs to reinvent himself and come up with something different. Wolves have been in the PL for 6 matches against our 3 years but looked light years ahead of us. Evolution not Revolution but something needs to change and quickly.

pauliopaulio wrote:1. On what basis do you know he would only last a half?

2. We lost. We’re bottom of the league. Goals are at a premium. It’s not panic stations but it looks grim. I’m not sure what a superb decision would be

1. Because he only recently featured for the under 23s and then started on the bench. Common sense tells us all that he's building up his match fitness. And that means starting him a few games from the bench and building him up. If you start somebody who doesn't have match fitness then you do it at home when you expect there will be less running. So he may start at home to Bournemouth.

2. Thought there was going to be another question, but there isn't.

When you say you would not stat Vydra look at the goal attempts in the first 5 PL games by Vokes, Wood and Barnes. They are simply shocking stats. How many saves did the Wolves keeper make today-and how many did Foster, De Gea and the Fulham keeper need to make in our other games.

Oh and has Hart now not made the most saves in the PL. What does that tell you

Wolves game plan bang it out right as Taylor was exposed due to no cover from Lennon this went on for the full 90 and we did nothing tactically to stop it. The management team seemed like rabbits in headlights.

warksclaret wrote:When you say you would not stat Vydra look at the goal attempts in the first 5 PL games by Vokes, Wood and Barnes. They are simply shocking stats. How many saves did the Wolves keeper make today-and how many did Foster, De Gea and the Fulham keeper need to make in our other games.

Oh and has Hart now not made the most saves in the PL. What does that tell you

It tells me that Vydra is still not match fit to start a game and expect to last 70-80 minutes. SD I can tell is gagging to start Vydra - but how many times, I do have to state the obvious - he had an injury - he then came back to played in the under 23s - great - he's now starting on the bench and will come off the bench a few times - as expected if you follow football - he will then start for us.

It's absolutely nothing to do with shocking stats, goal attempts, Vokes, Wood or Barnes - it's simply him getting into shape to start a game and last for us.

The club were complacent over the summer..."Look at us...we've qualified for Europe...and all on a shoe string " If you stand still in football you go backwards and that is what we have done.

I feel sorry for the fans having to sit and watch the dross he’s serving up for us at the moment.

Teams who don’t spend a shilling can still pass the football, the myth that we must play in such a horrible fashion because others teams have spent more than us is one of his creation.

I do not think SD would want our sympathy he wants our players to start performing like he knows they can I went today and we are playing under a little cloud but I'm certain after a win against Bournemouth maybe we can get back on track...

If I were to question anybody, it would be our so called sports scientists.
4 years ago we had a team that could run for 99 minutes a game. Teams struggled to live with us for the last 30 mins.
Now we look knackered before a ball is kicked, we also seem prone to injuries that hang around too long, and reoccur at the slightest knock. It has to be more than coincidence.

We need 11 players on the pitch at the top of their game we can't muster 3. Only Hart and Hendrick have played with any consistency this season. McNeil looked ok, but couldn't make the bench today although JBGs performance in front of Taylor first half can explain that. He was obviously there to do a job beyond McNeils experience.

In no way do I feel sorry for SD. He’s been here long enough now to mould the team his way and our style of play is utterly garbage. On par with the stuff cotteril served up. At least Cotteril genuinely did have the excuse
That we WERE skint.

The style is obviously tolerable so long as it’s effective. Well the last 28 games ( this calendar year ) it has been anything but effective. 5 wins this in the 90 in 2018... 5!

I think it was SD who banged the drum about English vs foreign managers repeatedly. Today ended that particular debate as a nice example, Wolves were light years ahead.

Until Dyche looks to a different profile of player in recruitment we will be stuck. And until he changes he won’t get a top job because he will be seen as Alladyche mk 2.

randomclaret2 wrote:The club were complacent over the summer..."Look at us...we've qualified for Europe...and all on a shoe string " If you stand still in football you go backwards and that is what we have done.

Certainly, the impression from our transfer dealings would suggest those with the purse strings have sat back all summer with a big fat Cuban, and thought ‘we’ve cracked this premier league lark’.

If we’re relegated, then heads should roll. Starting at the very top. There’s absolutely no reason we should be in this position. Bombed out of Europe, threadbare squad, and rock bottom of the league. We only have ourselves to blame. Criminal.

Don't he gets paid very well.

Smudge. Can you honestly see us beating Bournemouth. Who for instance is going to score. We are so predictable. No front man with pace, no plan B. Same old same old.

FF we are desperate. Vydra has been with us for about 7 weeks. It took Joey Barton less time to get in the team and he had not trained for months when he joined us. The trainers could have done extensive fitness training during the two week break. If we continue like this we will beat Derby County's lowest ever points total in the PL. I would not expect Vydra to play all 90 but seeing how ****-poor the other strikers are performing is not going to do much for his confidence

This smacks of the same plan when Ward signed. Dyche did not start him for four months then when he played we did not lose another game for half the season

warksclaret wrote:This smacks of the same plan when Ward signed. Dyche did not start him for four months then when he played we did not lose another game for half the season

Then by that, he's doing the right thing? And allowing him to come back gradually and not rush him?

Colburn_Claret wrote:If I were to question anybody, it would be our so called sports scientists.
4 years ago we had a team that could run for 99 minutes a game. Teams struggled to live with us for the last 30 mins.
Now we look knackered before a ball is kicked, we also seem prone to injuries that hang around too long, and reoccur at the slightest knock. It has to be more than coincidence.

We need 11 players on the pitch at the top of their game we can't muster 3. Only Hart and Hendrick have played with any consistency this season. McNeil looked ok, but couldn't make the bench today although JBGs performance in front of Taylor first half can explain that. He was obviously there to do a job beyond McNeils experience.

I may be well off the mark, but isn't SD trying to "evolve" our football? Maybe the players just are not capable of that?

Stayingup wrote:What is not mentioned is that we have lost top quality played in Ings, Trippier and a good striker with pace in Gray. We have also lost midfield bite with Marney and workhorses like Arfield and Boyd. None had really been replaced and we are weaker for it. Keane was replaced by Tarks.

Why did we not try to get Ings on loan? I wonder if there is a problem.with him.and the club somewhere

Is this a time warp? This complaint should have been posted at the start of last season or the season before, not this year. Those 6 players played a combined 18 games last season, average 3 each. They haven't made the difference.

I think you're the first poster to suggest that Cork and Gudmondsson aren't adequate replacements for Marney and Boyd.

boatshed bill wrote:I may be well off the mark, but isn't SD trying to "evolve" our football? Maybe the players just are not capable of that?

If SD is trying to "evolve" our football by going back to the dark old days of "hoof ball" up to two static forwards and leaving some 25m worth of Wood and Vydra on the bench then we are up the creek without a paddle

I feel for SD. I think he fully expected to have Brady and Defour very early into the season but both of them have gone down with comeback niggles that have kept them sidelined.
I feel sorrier for Barnes, Wood and Vokes who have absolutely zero to work with. No passes slid down the side of CHs, no crosses. At least today we had two up front for a bit of company.

Do not blame SD today. He played all his cards. The players let him down. hope Brady and Defour come back soon and stay injury free

piston broke wrote:I feel for SD. I think he fully expected to have Brady and Defour very early into the season but both of them have gone down with comeback niggles that have kept them sidelined.
I feel sorrier for Barnes, Wood and Vokes who have absolutely zero to work with. No passes slid down the side of CHs, no crosses. At least today we had two up front for a bit of company.

If we're pinning our hopes on Brady and Defour then we are even more up the creek without a paddle,it's easy to blame the strikers but if they don't have the ammunition they can't fire bullets.

How anybody can feel sorry for someone who is responsible for the filth we are being served up is staggering.

boatshed bill wrote:I may be well off the mark, but isn't SD trying to "evolve" our football? Maybe the players just are not capable of that?

If only there was a period where he could sign players to make that happen...

How do you motivate a team when you know you've probably already acheived the most you and they ever could?

"Ok lads, go out and do it all again..."

This is why this season would always be a struggle, realistically the only way was down and probably everyone; manager, players, fans etc knew it in one's heart of hearts.

CombatClaret wrote:How do you motivate a team when you know you've probably already acheived the most you and they ever could?

True. Manchester City and Barcelona need their heads shaking.

I think it's a fair point, it's a constant grind for survival in this league. When you do achieve some glory and it soon fizzles out into nothing it's got to hit morale. A way needs to be found for the players to start enjoying their football a bit more.

piston broke wrote:I feel for SD. I think he fully expected to have Brady and Defour very early into the season but both of them have gone down with comeback niggles that have kept them sidelined.
I feel sorrier for Barnes, Wood and Vokes who have absolutely zero to work with. No passes slid down the side of CHs, no crosses. At least today we had two up front for a bit of company.

explain what you mean with zero to work with and no crosses slid down the side of CHs

HieronymousBoschHobs wrote:I think it's a fair point, it's a constant grind for survival in this league. When you do achieve some glory and it soon fizzles out into nothing it's got to hit morale. A way needs to be found for the players to start enjoying their football a bit more.

I remember half way through last season when the BBC did an interview with Tark and Mee. “So, what about Europe” ...... the players had a little wry smile about it and then got to work.

Fast forward 6 months and what’s the response for all the hard work put in to get into Europe.

“James... Ben - sorry put Gibson and Long are playing, thanks for getting us to Europe though”.

What’s the point of these players running themselves into the ground if they don’t get to enjoy the fruits of their labours? Yes, they get paid handsomely and it’s their job - nobody can say it would hurt a little or pee you off though.

FactualFrank wrote:True. Manchester City and Barcelona need their heads shaking.

Being the best paid in the world probably helps plus knowing you can you can actually WIN something, lift a trophy etc.
For City it's not just about the domestic league, it's about the Champions League, and domestic cups. That they will win one is a given but their goal is to win many if not all in one season. With their resources it's not impossible and their managers will be demanding such. Should Dyche be demanding an FA cup or top 6 from our team?
Europa teams in the BPL are either top four teams underachieving or one the rest overachieving which they then fail to replicate next season.

ranjexel wrote:Do not blame SD today. He played all his cards. The players let him down. hope Brady and Defour come back soon and stay injury free

1. Almost all the cards were bought by SD
2. He clearly played some of them (Vokes/Barnes against Wood/Vydra) in the wrong order when going for a front two
3. He was playing a totally wrong game when away to a team that will prob finish 7th this season

We lost yesterday because of poor team selection and formation

We all went on a European Tour.

Shut up moaning.

I do not feel sorry for SD in the slightest and he must take full responsibility along with the Board if the season has started badly. SD spoke of wanting 4 to 5 new additions to improve the squad and cope with the rigours of the Europa League but ended up with just 2 (a goalkeeper at the time was not even on the wish list). SD's main transfer targets seemed to centre around a couple of journeymen from recently relegated WBA but we could not even secure them. A european scouting network has been discussed on this board for 5 seasons at least and to learn that this is still another 3 years away from becoming a reality is just a joke.
WBA have hardly set the Championship alight this season so it would take a huge stretch of the imagination to believe that the 2 players that we failed to sign would have made any meaningful contribution to yesterdays dire display.

Right_winger wrote:In no way do I feel sorry for SD. He’s been here long enough now to mould the team his way and our style of play is utterly garbage. On par with the stuff cotteril served up. At least Cotteril genuinely did have the excuse
That we WERE skint.

The style is obviously tolerable so long as it’s effective. Well the last 28 games ( this calendar year ) it has been anything but effective. 5 wins this in the 90 in 2018... 5!

I'll just make that stat a tad worse: it is now 5 wins in the last 33 competitive games over a normal 90 minutes (taking out extra time) and we haven't won in the last 16. Just a quick note for the ones who don't think we have a crisis.
For those who were bleating on about desperately needing CD cover in the window (we got it, much good it has done) I'll say 'I told you so' because I (along with a few others) was going on about how desperately we needed at least one striker of PL standard, because we simply haven't got one. Vokes, Barnes and Wood would be fine as 'second' strikers supporting the main one but none are good enough to do the job alone. We have no threat at all. Okay, our two most creative players have been out long term but even with them at the moment we have 3 stikers who couldn't trouble a barn door so would their return make that much difference? Maybe, I don't know.
Dyche, at the moment, doesn't look like he knows what he is doing and the whole team has lost any sense of the confidence and spark of the first half of last season. The 'sit back and nick a goal' system that got us so far has now been found out in a major way and we will now have to find new ways of playing.
I don't believe that if we are still in our current position come the next window we will spend much if anything, because if that be the case the board, in their usual penny pinching way, will be preparing for the Championship.
Just a note: I don't want Dyche to leave and if we do go down the sun will still rise and I will still be a Claret.

When we were doing well it was the team that shared the credit, and so it should be the whole team that takes responsibility for this poor run. On the positive side I think there are worse teams than us in the league.

AndrewJB wrote:When we were doing well it was the team that shared the credit, and so it should be the whole team that takes responsibility for this poor run. On the positive side I think there are worse teams than us in the league.

I can't think of one.

I think AndrewJB was thinking of the Football League.

If I was paying someone £3.5million a year I'd expect better than yesterday's garbage and I would be telling them that.