Joe Hart and the 'fan'

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:05 pm

fidelcastro wrote:I'm glad he did. The fan was talking garbage.

Who would know more about goalkeeping, do you think? The guy with 70 odd England caps or some chavvy, overweight belmtard?

Tough one I know!

So you think its ok for players to respond back to every fan who shouts something at them ? They would be busy responding to the crowd at the Turf ! (or most grounds)

The fan may have been talking garbage - I don't know the specific incident. But quite a lot of my mates were saying the same thing about Hart on Saturday and all season...he does not come off his line enough and does not command his area.

You don't need 70 caps to have a valid view !

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:12 pm

TVC15 wrote:So you think its ok for players to respond back to every fan who shouts something at them ? They would be busy responding to the crowd at the Turf ! (or most grounds)

The fan may have been talking garbage - I don't know the specific incident. But quite a lot of my mates were saying the same thing about Hart on Saturday and all season...he does not come off his line enough and does not command his area.

You don't need 70 caps to have a valid view !

But it wasn't a valid view. The speed in which the ball fizzed across the area meant that Hart would have been taking a massive gamble in coming for it. he chose to leave it and the ball went dead a few seconds later. It was at this point he uttered a few words to our 'expert' on 'keepers.

I couldn't give a toss if your mates from the pub think he doesn't come off his line enough. I'll trust the judgement of an International goalie and his much revered goalkeeping coach, long before I trust the opinions of drink soaked know-it-alls!

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:19 pm

I think some of the fan advice given during match days is hilarious. A guy near me on Saturday berated Lowton for aimlessly playing a ball down the channel during the first half. Lowts was being closed down, Hart had been cut off by one of their players and there wasn't a safe pass in to the middle. The ball he played gave the team a few seconds to re group after defending a Bournemouth attack, got their players moving away from our goal and ensured the initial pressure was over. His other option was to try to hold the ball and potentially lose it near his box. I think he chose the correct option!

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:29 pm

Goodclaret wrote:I think some of the fan advice given during match days is hilarious. A guy near me on Saturday berated Lowton for aimlessly playing a ball down the channel during the first half. Lowts was being closed down, Hart had been cut off by one of their players and there wasn't a safe pass in to the middle. The ball he played gave the team a few seconds to re group after defending a Bournemouth attack, got their players moving away from our goal and ensured the initial pressure was over. His other option was to try to hold the ball and potentially lose it near his box. I think he chose the correct option!

The classic one is the "get it forward" shout, whenever a defender (usually) passes back to the keeper, when there's no other option on, and it means we retain possession of the ball.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:31 pm

tim_noone wrote:And where does this leave Nick Pope?

Probably our number one but ignored him for now owing to his injury’s

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:31 pm

Just looking at the stats it's quite clear that Hart doesn't claim anywhere near as much as Pope does in terms of coming for high crosses.

Pope was averaging ~ 1.6 high claims per game last season. Hart on the other hand averages about 1 every 5 games (from last season and this season). Heaton comes out somewhere in the middle with ~ 1 a game.

It's something we do miss I think but Pope was way ahead of any other keeper at doing this last season.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:39 pm

fidelcastro wrote:The classic one is the "get it forward" shout, whenever a defender (usually) passes back to the keeper, when there's no other option on, and it means we retain possession of the ball.

There are many occasions when a player could play the ball forward and they repeatedly pass back. I'm not naming names. Sorry to hark back but whenever Trippier got the ball, there was only one place it was going and that was forward.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:56 pm

He's been a fantastic signing for us, however strange when we already had 2 quality goalkeepers.
It will inevitably create a situation of which goalkeeper do we sell, especially as we expected that when we had 2.

Burnley could have been the end for Hart, if he had failed and not played the way he has, his career as he knew it was well and truly over.
We Pep said he didn't want him he was still a good goalkeeper if a little over-rated. He went seriously downhill, but we seem to have given him the chance to get to where he was, and he is taking it.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:16 pm

fidelcastro wrote:But it wasn't a valid view. The speed in which the ball fizzed across the area meant that Hart would have been taking a massive gamble in coming for it. he chose to leave it and the ball went dead a few seconds later. It was at this point he uttered a few words to our 'expert' on 'keepers.

I couldn't give a toss if your mates from the pub think he doesn't come off his line enough. I'll trust the judgement of an International goalie and his much revered goalkeeping coach, long before I trust the opinions of drink soaked know-it-alls!

Who mentioned the pub you idiot ?
I said I did not know the incident you were referring to and that the fan may well be talking garbage on that incident.
I also know that a lot of rubbish is shouted at players by fans.
Aint got a clue why you are being a complete ar-se about this.

He could have 200 caps and won everything in football - it does not mean that he commands his area as well as other keepers.
Nobody is saying they know more about keeping than him or Billy Mercer. But if you seriously think that Hart has commanded his area as well as other keepers during his career then you are not watching him. This season he has hardly come out of his six yard box for any cross or ball into the area - compare that to a keeper like Courtois or Nick Pope. It does not make him a bad keeper but clearly its something he is not as good as other keepers at for a team like Burnley who have to soak up so much pressure it was a massive bonus for us last year to have Pope catching nearly everything in addition to doing the level of shot stopping that Heaton and Hart are great at.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:24 pm

bartonscigar wrote:this just typifies what a bell end hart is

You have the consistency of James Milner

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:36 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:There are many occasions when a player could play the ball forward and they repeatedly pass back. I'm not naming names. Sorry to hark back but whenever Trippier got the ball, there was only one place it was going and that was forward.

Why not name names?

And if what you say is true (and I've seen no evidence of this), then why do you think they pass back, when they could go forward?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:43 pm

TVC15 wrote:Who mentioned the pub you idiot ?
I said I did not know the incident you were referring to and that the fan may well be talking garbage on that incident.
I also know that a lot of rubbish is shouted at players by fans.
Aint got a clue why you are being a complete ar-se about this.

He could have 200 caps and won everything in football - it does not mean that he commands his area as well as other keepers.
Nobody is saying they know more about keeping than him or Billy Mercer. But if you seriously think that Hart has commanded his area as well as other keepers during his career then you are not watching him. This season he has hardly come out of his six yard box for any cross or ball into the area - compare that to a keeper like Courtois or Nick Pope. It does not make him a bad keeper but clearly its something he is not as good as other keepers at for a team like Burnley who have to soak up so much pressure it was a massive bonus for us last year to have Pope catching nearly everything in addition to doing the level of shot stopping that Heaton and Hart are great at.

My apologies. I didn't know that your mates and your good self were strict teetotalers!

Seriously though, you'll have to take my word for it that the criticism and abuse of Hart by said fan was seriously stupid. I'm really not making it up.

I'll take your point about him not commanding his area as well as other keepers, but he's doing something right at the moment and he has the keeper's jersey on merit, which means it's his to lose as things stand.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:01 pm

Totally agree he has the shirt on merit and he has probably been our best player this season.

Hart should not have responded though - we have a lot of numpty fans shouting a lot of rubbish every week. Just needs to be ignored - he’s bigger and better than that.

Oh btw we are not teetotal !!...but the drink does not cloud our judgement that he’s not as good as Pope or other keepers at that side of the game.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:11 pm

TVC15 wrote:Totally agree he has the shirt on merit and he has probably been our best player this season.

Hart should not have responded though - we have a lot of numpty fans shouting a lot of rubbish every week. Just needs to be ignored - he’s bigger and better than that.

Oh btw we are not teetotal !!...but the drink does not cloud our judgement that he’s not as good as Pope or other keepers at that side of the game.

Hmmm... maybe you had to witness it first hand then.

I certainly don't blame Hart for responding the way he did. As I said in my first post, it was dead funny!

Carport · Post by **Carport** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:15 pm

TVC15 wrote:Hart has played very well for sure - but he does not command his box at all - does not like coming out of his 6 yard box never mind commanding the whole of his area. To be fair neither does Tom but they are both very good shot stoppers.
The only keeper who commands his area and rarely punches the ball is Nick Pope - being 6ft 5 helps - but it is a big advantage for us to have a keeper like Pope as they are rare in the Premier League. Catching the ball anywhere in the area relieves so much pressure for the team - even if you get a good punch on it you are usually giving the ball back to the other team.

On Hart if somebody in the crowd did shout that then he should be experienced enough to not say anything back to the fan.

I was surprised to learn that Hart is taller than Pope

Carport · Post by **Carport** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:16 pm

JH 196cm NP 191cm

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:17 pm

Ok I’ve changed my mind !!!

if it makes one gobsh-ite think twice about shouting rubbish again then I’m all for it.

Infact it’s exactly what we needed to all those idiots in the bob lord who used to shout at Dave Jones or Scotty Arfield or the numpty who used to sit next to me and hated Robbie Blake or even the guy who sits near me now and hated Danny Ings.

Would love it if the game could be stopped, everything go silent and the hecklers to be escorted on to the pitch to repeat and explain their comments !!

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:31 pm

He doesnt need to catch balls if he can punch like he can. I would sooner he be confident at punching than trying to catch a ball he could drop. He is playing to his strengths. If he dropped it it would cause more danger. And look how both Heaton and Pope got injured - trying to catch balls that they shouldnt have.

Plus in terms of presence, I havent seen a keeper as intimidating or dominant as Hart in one on ones. His shot stopping (most important role), talking and organisation is as good as any keeper.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:36 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:And look how both Heaton and Pope got injured - trying to catch balls that they shouldnt have.

You've posted some daft stuff recently, let's be honest. But I like this, very good point in favour of Hart!

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:37 pm

I had someone behind me who all game kept shouting 'It's too easy, it's too easy'

Now, you would think he was happy but no, at 1,2,3 & 4 up he continued to slate us everytime Bournemouth passed the ball between themselves because he was moaning non stop about how crap we are

I had the pleasure of listening to this later day EUFA B Pro License coach for 90 bloody minutes.

Thank f he was using a borrowed season card as a one off.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:30 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Why not name names?

And if what you say is true (and I've seen no evidence of this), then why do you think they pass back, when they could go forward?

You’ve never seen players pass back rather than moving the ball up the field? Really?

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:48 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:He doesnt need to catch balls if he can punch like he can. I would sooner he be confident at punching than trying to catch a ball he could drop. He is playing to his strengths. If he dropped it it would cause more danger. And look how both Heaton and Pope got injured - trying to catch balls that they shouldnt have.

Plus in terms of presence, I havent seen a keeper as intimidating or dominant as Hart in one on ones. His shot stopping (most important role), talking and organisation is as good as any keeper.

Us oldies think goalkeepers should catch the ball....... If better modern Coaching says its better to punch the ball, who are we to argue

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:56 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:You’ve never seen players pass back rather than moving the ball up the field? Really?

Read what I actually posted.

I initially said that people moan when the ball goes back to the keeper, when there is no other option on and it retains possession.

Some people

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:48 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:He doesnt need to catch balls if he can punch like he can. I would sooner he be confident at punching than trying to catch a ball he could drop. He is playing to his strengths. If he dropped it it would cause more danger. And look how both Heaton and Pope got injured - trying to catch balls that they shouldnt have.

Plus in terms of presence, I havent seen a keeper as intimidating or dominant as Hart in one on ones. His shot stopping (most important role), talking and organisation is as good as any keeper.

Very good point

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:28 pm

chekhov wrote:You've posted some daft stuff recently, let's be honest. But I like this, very good point in favour of Hart!

Its the medication!

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:10 pm

didn't expect Joe to be here, we needed Joe, Joe needed a club, has shown he can be good and a good bit of business, he is well aware of what he is up against so will be no complacency or he knows what will happen, all very obvious really and he wears a BFC shirt and that's good enough for me at the moment.

Future will be interesting, many commenting here were the same ones banging on about Pope when Heats got injured, then Pope was the best thing since sliced bread. We are very well served in the GK role and believe the goal keeper coach deserves a huge amount of credit.

Few other positions that worry me a lot more than GK position of which I have full confidence in.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:15 pm

KateR wrote:
Future will be interesting, many commenting here were the same ones banging on about Pope when Heats got injured, then Pope was the best thing since sliced bread. We are very well served in the GK role and believe the goal keeper coach deserves a huge amount of credit.

What do you mean when you say "banging on" ?

Do you mean that the same people giving Joe Hart credit were the ones giving Nick Pope credit ? What was wrong with that ?

ClaretCliff · Post by **ClaretCliff** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:32 pm

Carport wrote:JH 196cm NP 191cm

I've seen those numbers before and thought they couldn't be right, and if you have a look at the team photo on the "team photo" thread, NP is a couple of inches taller than JH. They are aligned with a wall of the training centre and the top of NPs head is definitely higher than JH. (Unless the Barnfield training centre is built on a slope to match the Bob Lord

)

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:35 pm

Nick Pope I think is is 6 foot 5 - what that equates to in cm I'm not sure but I pretty definite he is taller than Joe Hart and quite a bit taller than Heaton.
Pope looks slightly taller than Tarks who is the next tallest player in the team.

BFC123 · Post by **BFC123** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:03 pm

Pope is 6ft 7. The club website has the heights wrong for most players.

Siddo · Post by **Siddo** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:36 pm

Down_Rover wrote:I prefer Heaton

Heaton has been brilliant for us, but Hart would have easily saved Burton's first goal. He hasn't been convincing since he returned from injury, and I can't see him displacing Hart at this rate.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:32 am

Siddo wrote:Heaton has been brilliant for us, but Hart would have easily saved Burton's first goal. He hasn't been convincing since he returned from injury, and I can't see him displacing Hart at this rate.

Sadly, having been to Burton last night, I have to agree he is a shadow of the Tom we all know.
It has scratched my itch, and, until injury or the next cup match we must place our faith in Joe Hart

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