Disgusted 'happy clapper'

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:42 am

I thought we were absolutely appalling earlier tonight at The Pirelli Stadium. We played around trying fancy little passes that often put the recipient under intense pressure. Watching Ben Mee just pump long, diagonal punts up to a centre forward who was noticeably failing to win a header all night, watching Ward, Lowton, Defour and Mee making half-hearted 5 yard passes rather than move with the ball and then lose it to a Burton player who hustled them. Watching players commit themselves to getting a ball they were never going to get and seeing a Burton player just waltz past them time after time after time.

For all Sean Dyche's achievements the team's consistent 'serious' but awful performances in cup competitions have to be laid at his door. Each year he sends out teams that flatter to deceive against lower division opposition before succumbing to the might of League 1 or 2 players - or even non-league!

It would not feel so bad if this was a one off poor showing this season instead of being a regular thing.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:48 am

Too many players appeared not to give a toss and thats totally unacceptable.JBG got in good positions and was ignored and why do we play the nonsense sideways passing across the back.
Tactics and poor substitutions lost this game.Wood was gash and should have hooked after first half

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:51 am

The minimum requirement is maximum effort *

*This mantra excludes knockout cup competitions

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:12 am

We were quite frankly embarrassing last night. There was a genuine lack of effort, particularly after we went 2-1 down and some of the players really need to hang their heads in shame.

I’m not having that Dyche is bothered about sorting his cup competition record and to say that after the farce of last night is ridiculous.

They either didn’t give a ****, and after our cup excursions already this season I could understand if we weren’t arsed but the manager is suggesting we were and if so his players aren’t performing for him and you’d have to ask what the problem is.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:21 am

Thing is, we were appalling after going 2-1 down, but we missed a hatfull of chances at 1-0 to us. And we looked relatively comfortable until a defensive mistake and a goalkeeping error let them back into it, and the defending for the winner was very poor.

I agree that we weren't on top of our game, but we played a strong side and did enough to win comfortably. But mistakes and the lack of a clinical edge keep costing us.

Defour has been out for a long time btw, and he was comfortably our best player and we looked a lot less assured all over the pitch after he went off.

You can't really blame Dyche for this one as experienced players made some pretty basic mistakes. I thought Mee was appalling to be honest and you'd expect a lot more from the skipper than that.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:12 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Thing is, we were appalling after going 2-1 down, but we missed a hatfull of chances at 1-0 to us. And we looked relatively comfortable until a defensive mistake and a goalkeeping error let them back into it, and the defending for the winner was very poor.

I agree that we weren't on top of our game, but we played a strong side and did enough to win comfortably. But mistakes and the lack of a clinical edge keep costing us.

Defour has been out for a long time btw, and he was comfortably our best player and we looked a lot less assured all over the pitch after he went off.

You can't really blame Dyche for this one as experienced players made some pretty basic mistakes. I thought Mee was appalling to be honest and you'd expect a lot more from the skipper than that.

Wasn’t Heaton Captain last night ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:17 am

To be honest, i've no idea but Mee normally is.

Guess Heaton might well have been as he was when he was playing.

Wisswosswass · Post by **Wisswosswass** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:20 am

Not condoning the performance or result but it was alluded to on Radio Blackburn last night, for lack of anything else to listen to for the game. We're seen as a big scalp these days, I guess we were in the old Division 4 days as well against smaller clubs. Teams will raise their game. We've never been a side who likes teams who go toe to toe against us, especially the physical ones. I don't know if it's just that our players just can't get themselves up for a game against a lower division side on a cold Autumn evening. For me, for what it's worth. I think we just set up similarly to those teams, let the opposition have possession and hit them on the break. More crucially, we have similar type players; better quality players but similar style. I.E. They'll be used to playing a 4-4-2, big man/small man up front with crosses being whipped in and they'll be used to teams peppering them with set pieces, diagonals and basically playing it up to the big man and feeding off the knock downs. We don't have much of a plan B at the best of times due to our shape, system or players available to fit that. I've lost count of the number of times we've been out-Burnleyed. Lincoln City the other season was a prime example. It's not gone unnoticed that we're lacking flair players. Someone who can do something different. It has been addressed to some degree, but we've still got to incorporate their style into the formation. There's no point having a flair player in the team, or someone who can offer something different if we can't get the ball to him in the first place.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:33 am

bfcmik wrote:I thought we were absolutely appalling earlier tonight at The Pirelli Stadium. We played around trying fancy little passes that often put the recipient under intense pressure. Watching Ben Mee just pump long, diagonal punts up to a centre forward who was noticeably failing to win a header all night, watching Ward, Lowton, Defour and Mee making half-hearted 5 yard passes rather than move with the ball and then lose it to a Burton player who hustled them. Watching players commit themselves to getting a ball they were never going to get and seeing a Burton player just waltz past them time after time after time.

For all Sean Dyche's achievements the team's consistent 'serious' but awful performances in cup competitions have to be laid at his door. Each year he sends out teams that flatter to deceive against lower division opposition before succumbing to the might of League 1 or 2 players - or even non-league!

It would not feel so bad if this was a one off poor showing this season instead of being a regular thing.

Well. He keeps changing the team. Should have played with Saturdays team.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:37 am

However this is dressed up or couched its a shocking and embarrasing defeat. No wonder people are laughing at us. No excuses.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:50 am

Who is laughing ?

Blackburn fans ?
Leeds ?
Bolton ?
Preston ?

Sh-it happens.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:57 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Thing is, we were appalling after going 2-1 down, but we missed a hatfull of chances at 1-0 to us. And we looked relatively comfortable until a defensive mistake and a goalkeeping error let them back into it, and the defending for the winner was very poor.

I agree that we weren't on top of our game, but we played a strong side and did enough to win comfortably. But mistakes and the lack of a clinical edge keep costing us.

Defour has been out for a long time btw, and he was comfortably our best player and we looked a lot less assured all over the pitch after he went off.

You can't really blame Dyche for this one as experienced players made some pretty basic mistakes. I thought Mee was appalling to be honest and you'd expect a lot more from the skipper than that.

Acrtually you CAN blame Dyche and I do.The man obviously doesn't give a toss about cup competitions and robs supporters every time they go to watch one. The continued defeats to lower division clubs is no coincidence. We threw it.....again., in my opinion.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:02 am

I'm also a seriously peed off happy clapper. We're never going to win the league so our only chance at a trophy is going to be one of the domestic cups. Why do the players always seem like they're not arsed!

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:04 am

TVC15 wrote:Who is laughing ?

Blackburn fans ?
Leeds ?
Bolton ?
Preston ?

Sh-it happens.

Many people, my dog even!!! You dont agree then it was an embarrasing result - again against lower league opposition?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:10 am

However this is dressed up or couched its a shocking and embarrasing defeat. No wonder people are laughing at us. No excuses.

With the greatest respect in the world, I've been laughed at most of my life for supporting Burnley, I'm not going to take anymore notice of anyone now than I did then!

It was a embarrassing defeat, because we are in the prem and they are in League One, but we only have ourselves to blame for not taking our chances.

HouseBoy - SD picked a strong side, he can rightly expect to them to perform to do what was required when they cross the white line.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:12 am

TVC15 wrote:Who is laughing ?

Blackburn fans ?
Leeds ?
Bolton ?
Preston ?

Sh-it happens.

But at the moment it's happening all the time, in the main. I hope that Saturday wasn't a flash in the pan but going off last night who knows?

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:15 am

"We threw it" - ha ha!

Yeah, Dyche told Barnes to hit the post when he went on and JBG to hit the keeper instead of scoring when one on one!? We should have been well clear before they scored against the run of play - story of our season so far really.

I am very disappointed at going out but we did enough to comfortably win but careless mistakes are letting us down at the moment - that's not something SD can directly control and I'm pretty dam sure it isn't because he is telling the players to screw up to ensure we go out.

Bfc · Post by **Bfc** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:16 am

Well put Bfcmik, you just missed adding, our team had 7 plus 2 substitute Internationals playing. I thought from my pitchside view of the tackle by Long, that he got a Yellow card for, was going to be a straight Red card.
We seem to struggle against teams who play midfielders who are on the small side and run at pace past our players with ease.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:18 am

We are just not very good when we make lots of changes.

When we have a settled side we tend to do well.

I reckon that’s why our cup record is awful.

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:19 am

Houseboy - if being laughed at by other fans really gets to you then I suggest another sport maybe for you. It's just a wee bit of banter, plenty we have dished out to the lovely Rovers and Leeds fans in recent years. It won't be spoiling my day that's for sure.

Have a happy day fella

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:51 am

I said before the game that as much of the team that played Bournemouth should have played today. Vokes and Vydra carrying on building a partnershup. Lennon and JBG playing the flanks and switching. Keep the confidence flowing after there best performances. Back 5 having a clean sheet. More games more understanding for Hart and Taylor to grow into the side.

majormajor · Post by **majormajor** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:51 am

I don’t care at all about people laughing at us.

What I do care about is having a decent cup whilst we have our strongest team since the 70s.

Not saying we have to go and win the thing but at least give yourself the best chance of going as far as possible.

To have been knocked out of the cups by conference, league two and league one sides in the last few years is nowhere near good enough.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:53 am

Not overly bothered about the result as we never do well in cups under Dyche.

Just felt after all the swapping already this season last night wasnt the time to do it

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:00 am

Hats off to all the Clarets who still bother to turn up at cup matches these days, you're pretty much the only ones associated with BFC who do.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:06 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:We are just not very good when we make lots of changes.

When we have a settled side we tend to do well.

I reckon that’s why our cup record is awful.

This. It’s the nature of Sean Dyche’s beast. The corollary of our success in the League is our poor Cup form. I’m in no was suggesting it’s an either/or situation, but I’m happy to have our overall League form under Dyche, even if it means being gash in the Cups. I’m also very happy we turned up at Deadwood last year. That would’ve been hard to take.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:34 am

Like many PL and even Championshi[p teams, we made changes for this game, but unlike most of the other teams, our changes actually still meant an extremely strong team trotting out. I'd have no problem with Dyche picking that team to start a PL game and I thought exactly that when it was announced. So why, yet again, the woeful under performance?? Inexplicable tbh, but it's become a very bad (and embarrassing) habit.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:06 am

SD his hardly going to come out and say his players couldn't be bothered, or were told to take it easy.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:29 am

And he wouldn't say that anyway, because neither would be true.

Spaceman · Post by **Spaceman** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:08 pm

Feels like we are one more crap display from the see saw tipping .

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:11 pm

You have to remember on here you get the extremes.

We are miles away from wanting the manager out

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:17 pm

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:27 pm

*** NEW Guideline from Board to SD ***

Squad rotation guideline 7b.

Premier League - No squad rotation unless SEVERE loss of form
Europa League - Minor squad rotation outside our PL spine players
FA cup - Minor squad rotation including spine players
League cup - Total squad rotation to give fringe players a game

*** End of communication ***

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:52 pm

Stayingup wrote:Many people, my dog even!!! You dont agree then it was an embarrasing result - again against lower league opposition?

As I said who are these “many people” ? Does it really bother you that much ? Who do they support ?

It was a poor defeat I agree. But why would I be embarrassed ? Embarrassed to who exactly ?

Maybe you should have a sit down with your dog and explain that if anyone needs to be embarrassed it’s the one who licks his own balls.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:18 pm

houseboy wrote:But at the moment it's happening all the time, in the main. I hope that Saturday wasn't a flash in the pan but going off last night who knows?

Really depends whether you think the performance against Burton is the "norm" for our players or the one against Bournemouth is more like what we are used to from this team.
I've already posted on here in the last few weeks that those posting that we have been in this kind of form "since Christmas" is just not factually correct. Descriptions like "flash in the pan" fall into the same category for me.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:47 pm

I'm not happy but I'm not disgusted. If we stay in the Prem because of early cup exits I'll take the abuse from my mates with a smile. If we don't, I'll be very p!ssed off.

SussexDon1inIreland · Post by **SussexDon1inIreland** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:54 pm

Anyone know why Kevin Long's goal was disallowed?

UTC

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:38 pm

TVC15 wrote:Really depends whether you think the performance against Burton is the "norm" for our players or the one against Bournemouth is more like what we are used to from this team.
I've already posted on here in the last few weeks that those posting that we have been in this kind of form "since Christmas" is just not factually correct. Descriptions like "flash in the pan" fall into the same category for me.

I understand what you mean and there have been moments of very good football but, prior to Saturday, there is no getting away from the fact that we had only won 5 games in normal time in 33 attempts. However those wins were accrued and over what number of games and timescale it doesn't alter the fact that that is a long time for a 'poor' run. It certainly can't be described as a blip, it's almost a full season's worth of games. No-one seems to have any answers and all we keep hearing is 'in Dyche we trust' and that is fair enough but when does that trust end? At what point do we stop saying that and start pointing the finger? That's all I'm getting at. If, in another 6 months, our football hasn't improved and our results are no different to any great degree will people still be saying 'in Dyche we trust'? As it happens I still trust him, just, but as someone who is not by nature very trusting his stock in the old trust bank won't last forever.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:06 pm

The trust ends when he leaves; he's earned a great degree of flex. However, his cup form is both baffling and unwelcome.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:05 pm

Unwelcome but hardly baffling.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:41 pm

It isn’t even just the cups - it is a LONG time since we won a Premier League game after resting players for a cup game. Don’t put your cash on a win at Cardiff that is for sure. The stats suggest we won’t.

That’s why his approach makes no sense to me whatsoever. It is proven not to benefit even the Premier League. He is more stubborn than Theresa May, he should get an award for that!

(P.s. 2 changes would have been fine, such as Defour and a striker rotation, but 6 is something else. It throws out the whole balance)

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:00 pm

bfcmik wrote:I thought we were absolutely appalling earlier tonight at The Pirelli Stadium. We played around trying fancy little passes that often put the recipient under intense pressure. Watching Ben Mee just pump long, diagonal punts up to a centre forward who was noticeably failing to win a header all night, watching Ward, Lowton, Defour and Mee making half-hearted 5 yard passes rather than move with the ball and then lose it to a Burton player who hustled them. Watching players commit themselves to getting a ball they were never going to get and seeing a Burton player just waltz past them time after time after time.

For all Sean Dyche's achievements the team's consistent 'serious' but awful performances in cup competitions have to be laid at his door. Each year he sends out teams that flatter to deceive against lower division opposition before succumbing to the might of League 1 or 2 players - or even non-league!

It would not feel so bad if this was a one off poor showing this season instead of being a regular thing.

Don't you get it? THEY ARE NOT BOTHERED, it is a poxy nothing competition, it just gets in the way of impotrant stuff, like the league

careyclaret · Post by **careyclaret** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:21 am

It is not a poxy nothing competition. Nor is the FA Cup or any European competition. SD has achieved wonderful things and deserves our unconditional support but when he says that we are taking a cup game seriously that sends a message to the players. He is a smart guy and I don't believe for a second that he wanted to lose the game but his use of language, for someone who is usually very careful, was very careless.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:49 am

be reeeeeeeeeeeet, we can concentrate on the FA Cup

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:11 am

careyclaret wrote:It is not a poxy nothing competition. Nor is the FA Cup or any European competition. SD has achieved wonderful things and deserves our unconditional support but when he says that we are taking a cup game seriously that sends a message to the players. He is a smart guy and I don't believe for a second that he wanted to lose the game but his use of language, for someone who is usually very careful, was very careless.

Tbf, the League cup hasn't any great history attached to it, unlike the F.A. Cup

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:50 am

BennyD wrote:I'm not happy but I'm not disgusted. If we stay in the Prem because of early cup exits I'll take the abuse from my mates with a smile. If we don't, I'll be very p!ssed off.

It's not an either/or- if we stay in the Prem it won't be because we tossed a game against Burton off in September. We could have tried to win that game last night and still stayed up comfortably.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:43 am

BennyD wrote:I'm not happy but I'm not disgusted. If we stay in the Prem because of early cup exits I'll take the abuse from my mates with a smile. If we don't, I'll be very p!ssed off.

We tend to be a 'momentum' club. We go on long periods with only the occasional happy day such as we are in at the moment or we go on the opposite run with lots of good results and over-achieving displays such as in the 23 undefeated.

Absolutely no statistics to show that a cup run harms your chances in the league unless you reach the final. For every example of a club who faltered in their league campaign you could find another who received a boost from it, e.g. BFC in 2008/2009

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:13 am

Even the top clubs, with bigger squads still make a lot of changes though.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:48 pm

The League Cup does not have the history of the FA Cup but it is still a competition which has given our club and the fans some great memories, as it as with other clubs like Birmingham, Wigan, Bradford, Swansea and many more on the "smaller" teams.
Our run to the semi final under Coyle was one the most enjoyable series of games many of us have ever enjoyed as fans. For those of us a bit older when we got to the semi final v Liverpool in the 1980s that was the same. Even nights like when we beat Villa under Cotterill were great nights.

But all that said if you were to give me a choice as to the success we have had under Dyche in the championship and the Premier League in the last 5 years or winning a few games in the cup competitions then it would be the former. 2 promotions, reaching Europe, beating Liverpool, Chelsea etc and putting the club in the strongest financial position in its history is far more important to me.

I know some fans will say why can't we have both ? But our manager / players have decided that with the squad we have that is not possible. Whether he is right or wrong can be debated forever but I am pretty sure he has earned the right to make that decision and the fact that we have have had the success in the leagues kind of confirms that he is right.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:24 pm

Spijed wrote:Even the top clubs, with bigger squads still make a lot of changes though.

Because their top players are fighting to win the PL and also the CL.

I found it frustrating the other night. Club like ours cant pick and choose when to try and win a cup. Last season we were safe before FA cup round 3 and unfortunately we got City away. At what point are we gonna start being interested? If we keep progressing as we have in the league sooner or later Dyche really needs to start thinking harder about the cups. 1 domestic win this season. What a chance to go to a very winnable game at Cardiff with 2 on the bounce. Who knows with Huddersfield after that and we could have been looking at 4 wins on the trott.