ignorance of Nigel Farage exposed

[aggi]

You & others never seem to acknowledge Nigel’s good points, he played a large part in helping the referendums result & now is continuing the fight. Some people aren’t bothered about numbers they just want to leave the EU ASAP that’s all they bothered about.

If you're desperate to leave the EU on the basis of any old lies that tally with your preconceptions then I guess it's easier to see Nigel's good points and ignore the fact that you've been hoodwinked.

Some people aren’t bothered about numbers they just want to leave the EU ASAP that’s all they bothered about.

Why? What three main things make you so desperate to leave the EU that you'll ignore the numbers (I assume by that you mean financial arguments).

[Jakubclaret]

If you're desperate to leave the EU on the basis of any old lies that tally with your preconceptions then I guess it's easier to see Nigel's good points and ignore the fact that you've been hoodwinked.

Some people aren’t bothered about numbers they just want to leave the EU ASAP that’s all they bothered about.

Why? What three main things make you so desperate to leave the EU that you'll ignore the numbers (I assume by that you mean financial arguments).

During both campaigns, I’m assuming people of the nation painstakingly weighed up the pro & cons from both sides of argument & assessed accordingly a odd porky here or there doesn’t really matter not to me anyhow. Some people were that desperate to leave not much convincing was required, I suggest you should consider why people felt that way instead of dredging up old news.

[aggi]

Some people were that desperate to leave not much convincing was required, I suggest you should consider why people felt that way instead of dredging up old news.

That was the question I've asked you.

(Although I'd say that Nigel Farage lying to make his point, or being incompetent, is quite relevant on a thread about Nigel Farage.)

[Jakubclaret]

That was the question I've asked you.

(Although I'd say that Nigel Farage lying to make his point, or being incompetent, is quite relevant on a thread about Nigel Farage.)

That’s precisely the point I was trying to make, it doesn’t really matter about Nigel or anybody else, it shows greatly just out of touch you lot really are, you should explore the reasons why people felt that way but you won’t or can’t, it’s more important to try to discredit Nigel, that’s why Nigel has connected & other politicians probably never will despite trying, overlooking the critical point.

[nil_desperandum]

Some people aren’t bothered about numbers they just want to leave the EU ASAP that’s all they bothered about.

That's the most honest and accurate post you've ever made - (I think).
[As Boris said "F*** business", and for that matter f*** the car industry, the young, the north and the other under-privileged regions, F*** the economy, F*** our national security, F*** our International reputation ........ in fact - F*** the country - we're leaving.]
At least we now know how you truly feel.

[aggi]

That’s precisely the point I was trying to make, it doesn’t really matter about Nigel or anybody else, it shows greatly just out of touch you lot really are, you should explore the reasons why people felt that way but you won’t or can’t, it’s more important to try to discredit Nigel, that’s why Nigel has connected & other politicians probably never will despite trying, overlooking the critical point.

Well I've asked Why? What three main things make you so desperate to leave the EU that you'll ignore the numbers (I assume by that you mean financial arguments).

It's a bit difficult to explore the reasons if you won't say what they are.

[RingoMcCartney]

[As Boris said "F*** business", and for that matter f*** the car industry, the young, the north and the other under-privileged regions, F*** the economy, F*** our national security, F*** our International reputation ........ in fact - F*** the country - we're leaving.

No he didn't. You're wrong. Don't want to be pedantic however......

What happened was this.

While attending a celebration of the Queen's birthday, the Foreign Secretary was asked about the fears of business leaders in relation to Brexit, and according to EU diplomats he responded: “**** business.”

[dsr]

By that logic, you can never accuse anyone of lying about anything, because nuance or context or something.

I’m not sure whether 29% is a significant number anyway.

Huh? Because one sentence can be interpreted in two ways depending on context, that means all sentences can be interpreted in two ways? That isn't my logic, and if it's your logic, it's wrong.

29% can certainly be a significant number. The percentage of our trade which consists of exports to the EU is a lot less than 29% of total trade; but it's significant.

[nil_desperandum]

No he didn't. You're wrong. Don't want to be pedantic however......

What happened was this.

While attending a celebration of the Queen's birthday, the Foreign Secretary was asked about the fears of business leaders in relation to Brexit, and according to EU diplomats he responded: “**** business.”

That's what I wrote: Boris is widely reported to have said "F*** business" (and hasn't denied it).

[Imploding Turtle]

I’m sorry I never realised you made any mistakes we must all be inferior.

It's one thing to make mistakes, it's quite another thing to make a mistake, be corrected repeatedly and then to continue making that same mistake. At some point the rest of us just have to accept the fact that you're doing it deliberately. Farage makes "mistakes" deliberately, which means they're not mistakes.
And because you know this yet still excuse him that makes you an apologist.

[Imploding Turtle]

If you're desperate to leave the EU on the basis of any old lies that tally with your preconceptions then I guess it's easier to see Nigel's good points and ignore the fact that you've been hoodwinked.

Some people aren’t bothered about numbers they just want to leave the EU ASAP that’s all they bothered about.

Why? What three main things make you so desperate to leave the EU that you'll ignore the numbers (I assume by that you mean financial arguments).

Laws, borders, currency. They wanted to take control of three things that we already had control over.

[RingoMcCartney]

That's what I wrote: Boris is widely reported to have said "F*** business" (and hasn't denied it).

So when you wrote -

"nil_desperandum wrote:[As Boris said "F*** business", and for that matter f*** the car industry, the young, the north and the other under-privileged regions, F*** the economy, F*** our national security, F*** our International reputation ........ in fact - F*** the country - we're leaving."

Who were you trying to say had said all the additional stuff.!? Are you sayimg you didn't actually write it now. Short term memory loss or what?

It certainly wasn't Boris!. He hasn't denied he said **** business. You're correct. But the rest is utter garbage.

[aggi]

Who's going to explain speech marks to Ringo?

[Jakubclaret]

It's one thing to make mistakes, it's quite another thing to make a mistake, be corrected repeatedly and then to continue making that same mistake. At some point the rest of us just have to accept the fact that you're doing it deliberately. Farage makes "mistakes" deliberately, which means they're not mistakes.
And because you know this yet still excuse him that makes you an apologist.

OK then prove without any biased media that nigel farage is a liar & makes mistakes deliberately, you're against nigel because he's friends with trump & you voted stay in the EU. You can only ever be 100% sure about somebody is when they've actually lied to your face & no other time.

[RingoMcCartney]

Who's going to explain speech marks to Ringo?

Quoting what somebody actually said and embellishing it with what is clearly your own opinion and trying to pass it off as though it was also said is just pathetic.

Now you can drone on about speech marks if you like but the resident UTC message board nil-desperandum was clearly up to mischief.

[elwaclaret]

All this vitriol towards Leavers would have been better spent on the Clowns who decided to make it a circus rather than a serious vote in the first place. Cameron was so far up his own passage he couldn't see that his side could lose.

Same reason he refused to let the CS prepare any of the ground for the Leave vote. He then spat his dummy out and left the rest to deal with his mess. It's been mismanaged from day one and they are the one's still cocking it up.... it's them that deserve all the bile and they're pretty much all remainers.

[Jakubclaret]

It's a irrefutable fact that unless nigel has personally sat down with any member of this forum & lied to them that seed of doubt will always exist, I havent called nigel a liar, on that basis unless someone has been personally lied to the arguments lost not that their should have ever been 1.

[Imploding Turtle]

OK then prove without any biased media that nigel farage is a liar & makes mistakes deliberately, you're against nigel because he's friends with trump & you voted stay in the EU. You can only ever be 100% sure about somebody is when they've actually lied to your face & no other time.

Oh wow. I genuinely laughed out loud at this.
"you're against Nigel because he's friends with trump & you voted stay in the EU"


I was against Farage long before the EU referendum and long before Trump ran for president. How desperate do you have to be to try to dismiss my fundamental opposition to everything Farage stands for by suggesting it is purely because of Trump and the EU.

[Jakubclaret]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... rrefutable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not joining you in this fantasy world.

[aggi]

OK then prove without any biased media that nigel farage is a liar & makes mistakes deliberately, you're against nigel because he's friends with trump & you voted stay in the EU. You can only ever be 100% sure about somebody is when they've actually lied to your face & no other time.

OK. So you're saying he's incompetent. Because that's really the only two options.

[aggi]

Quoting what somebody actually said and embellishing it with what is clearly your own opinion and trying to pass it off as though it was also said is just pathetic.

Now you can drone on about speech marks if you like but the resident UTC message board nil-desperandum was clearly up to mischief.

Well the quote had speech marks and the other bit didn't. That's how you can tell which bit was by Boris and which bit was by nil-desperandum.

[RingoMcCartney]

Well the quote had speech marks and the other bit didn't. That's how you can tell which bit was by Boris and which bit was by nil-desperandum.

See post # 215.

[nil_desperandum]

See post # 215.

So, why do you think I highlighted Boris's quote with speech marks?
(It wasn't an edit, by the way).

[burnleymik]

All politicians lie, that is a given, but people only seem to take umbrage if said politician is saying things they don't agree with.

Farage is no exception, he hasn't told as many lies as some people want to portray and I am sure if there were many, as some people suggest, this thread would be filled with them.

[RingoMcCartney]

So, why do you think I highlighted Boris's quote with speech marks?
(It wasn't an edit, by the way).

I've been here on way way too many times with you and you're grammatical scalpel to take it any further than this.

But it was clear , if you're a reasonable person, what you were doing. Boris only said **** business. To add additional ****s and embellish it with things that you happen to think will be affected, without a full stop or saying "he may have well have said", was cheap.

If you want to go down a rabbit hole of pedantry , microscope bothering, forensics and almost court room levels of analysis. You fill your boots.

If you want to play the role of counsel for the defence by all means crack on. Just don't expect a response from me.

[Jakubclaret]

You can read as many newspapers or twitter/Facebook information or even watch television ect as much as you want, it’s absolutely impossible to establish anybody is liar until you’ve been lied to. It’s irrefutable.

[Imploding Turtle]

All politicians lie, that is a given, but people only seem to take umbrage if said politician is saying things they don't agree with.

Farage is no exception, he hasn't told as many lies as some people want to portray and I am sure if there were many, as some people suggest, this thread would be filled with them.

Some lies are relatively harmless, like when the Tories lie about how committed they are to the NHS. But there are other lies that suborn hatred and fear, like those lies about immigration, refugees, asylum seekers, benefits claimants etc. People who spread these kinds of lies are spreading hatred.

Some lies are bigger and worse than others. Farage might not tell many lies but his lies are big ones and he repeats them over and over so that people start to believe them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TheFamilyCat]

Ringo's not having a good day, is he?

[nil_desperandum]

I've been here on way way too many times with you and you're grammatical scalpel to take it any further than this.
.

My post was clearly written and punctuated, and grammatically correct. It was in response to Jakub, not you, and it appears that everyone else understands the use of speech marks. You misread or misunderstood it. Fair enough, we all do it from time to time, but why pursue it when everyone can see you're wrong?.
Of course you're perfectly entitled to disagree and argue with me, but claiming that I misquoted someone when I so obviously didn't, (and took care not to do so) does you no favours, and is why some posters no longer engage with you, (sadly).

[nil_desperandum]

“It's very simple. Liars initiate, haters carry forward, fools spread, idiots believe and mindful void.”
― Aditya Ajmera

[Jakubclaret]

The arguments gone it’s irrefutable.

[burnleymik]

“It's very simple. Liars initiate, haters carry forward, fools spread, idiots believe and mindful void.”
― Aditya Ajmera

Are you sure that isn't a quote from Momentum?

[aggi]

You can read as many newspapers or twitter/Facebook information or even watch television ect as much as you want, it’s absolutely impossible to establish anybody is liar until you’ve been lied to. It’s irrefutable.

Fair enough, you think he's incompetent.

[Jakubclaret]

Fair enough, you think he's incompetent.

The argument as been defeated my last post on this thread, it’s absolutely impossible to argue rationally from your point of view. It’s my buzz word tonight, it’s irrefutable from what has been posted throughout the subject. It really is. Night.

[Greenmile]

I’m beginning to think Jakubclaret might be a parody account

[Lancasterclaret]

There have been a couple of threads like this recently.

Proper head wobblers.

Think it highlights the problem of getting through to people who just won't accept what they believe in is just completely wrong.

Its like a religion.

[JohnMcGreal]

There have been a couple of threads like this recently.

Proper head wobblers.

Think it highlights the problem of getting through to people who just won't accept what they believe in is just completely wrong.

Its like a religion.

On the Marr show on Sunday, Theresa May kept repeating that she 'believes in Brexit' as though she was talking about the God of her religion, or the way a child talks about Father Christmas.

It's weird and a bit creepy, to be honest.

[aggi]

It is strange, I wonder at the thought process that lets you just gloss over this kind of thing.

The evidence is all out there, it's not really a debate that Farage is wrong in this case so how is that rationalised? I guess it's one of three scenarios:

I don't care if they're lying, I agree with them so will ignore the lying.
I don't care if they don't have the requisite knowledge, I agree with them so will ignore the incompetence.
I don't really understand the issue but don't want to admit it so will avoid the point.

None of them really fill me with hope (and it's not just this small debate, you can see it on a much larger scale with Boris, Trump, etc)

[Spijed]

When some on here think Tommy Robinson isn't a racist, but just misguided you know they have been brainwashed!

[Greenmile]

I read this opinion piece today, which made me think of this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ard-batten" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;