If there was a general election tomorrow would you still vote labour?

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:38 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Remember that when there's a referendum on the final deal.

There won't be. Because hopefully tgere won't be a deal
So you can stamp your feet throw a fit and sulk for the rest of your life.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:42 pm

Stayingup wrote:The question really ought to be. Would you vote for a Marxist Communist Government that would take us back to the 70's?

I would just to teach these young Marxist super consumers a lesson. Oh and would they get one.

Its no wonder you get generalisations that the right wing nutjobs and brexiteers are all thick as f*ck when you get numpties like this one spouting such stupid nonsense

Makes our resident drunk seem almost normal

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:44 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:You really think that in our Parliamentary democracy Marxist / Communist policies / laws would be enacted?
Similar to Brexit really. Our Parliamentary democracy is certainly flawed but it does generally protect us from cliff-edge extremist policies.
Corbyn would have to have a huge majority to get anything remotely extreme through the Commons, and then beyond that he would have to get it past the Lords and any judicial challenge.
It's for exactly the same reason that Rees-Mogg would be unable to take us back to the 1770s.

Of course he doesn't, it's just the right-wing Project Fear. They've been at it for centuries. Frighten the public to control them.I can't think of any socially liberal advancement that the conservatives at the time weren't telling the public to be frightened of.

Basically here's how it goes - If the left want to do something that protects the public from corporations it's evil, creeping communism and did you know that Stalin killed 50 million people? But if you think that corporations should be allowed to fire you for being black, gay, a woman etc then you're anti-business and want to keep people unemployed as suckling on the tit of the tax-payer because you're a communist marxist scumbag and also did you know that Stalin killed 50 million people?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:55 pm

Stayingup wrote:There won't be. Because hopefully tgere won't be a deal
So you can stamp your feet throw a fit and sulk for the rest of your life.

Strangely contradictory post.
If there's no deal, then a referendum or Gen Election is now almost inevitable, since the numbers in Parliament simply don't add up.
And why would anyone actually be hopeful of a "no deal"?
You might personally want to revert to WTO rules, (and I'm sure we could cope with that, despite the financial hit), but that isn't the same as walking away with no deal.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:08 pm

the history of govts in this country is always won by those that best occupy the centre ground..always has been.

on that basis anyone who thinks labour can win an election under corbyn does not understand the true nature of the vast majority of the uk population.. it reminds me of when labour was run by foot and kinnock, they believed what was said to them by there adoring acolytes and completely ignored the realities of the day.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:12 pm

Pearcey wrote:Another lost labour vote here. Wouldn’t vote Tory either though. I’ll have a look at the Liberal policies and see what they have to say.

Agree. But I think you might find nothing much on the Liberal pages. It's shocking that the people of Britain are stuck with the most inept politicians ever I should think.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:20 pm

Stayingup wrote:Agree. But I think you might find nothing much on the Liberal pages. It's shocking that the people of Britain are stuck with the most inept politicians ever I should think.

That's what happens when you are a people who wants a variety of political parties to choose from, but are ruled only by one of two, both of which won't let you have the electoral system that makes what you want worthwhile.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:22 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Its no wonder you get generalisations that the right wing nutjobs and brexiteers are all thick as f*ck when you get numpties like this one spouting such stupid nonsense

Makes our resident drunk seem almost normal

Actually coming from a left wing half wit like you I take that as a compliment. You see express an opinion contrary to a left wing nut job and that ithe type of response expected. Thick eh? Your a bloody crackpot

For your information half wit I am fully behind Benn Corbyn and McDonnell on the EU. But maybe for some different reasons. They are anti EU because they are anti the massive power blocs that think they run the world. The ones that love the sclerotic EU so much. Same the CBI. It's fine for them they can manipulate the rules to suit them SEM's like mine can't. The sooner we are out with no levies on imports the better. I will be in a more competitive world than now.

What is your business?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:26 pm

You are one hell of a moron chump

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:34 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:You are one hell of a moron chump

There you go again. No tolerance for a view not corresponding with yours. And rude. That's make a you the moron in my view and very unitelligent.

So what is your business then? Import or Export?

You see you comment on matters you know little about. Business in this case.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:36 pm

imagine being someone who complains about someone else using "right wing nutjob" while at the same time using "left wing halfwit".

You can't have it both ways. You either get to complain about name calling, or you get to utilise name calling. Oh, i forgot. Hypocrisy is a right-wing policy nowadays.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:39 pm

I've no tolerance for idiots and your post #98 showed you to clearly be one. I have no wish to discuss anything further with a moron like yourself. Cant be any clearer than that just hope you can comprehend

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:42 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I've no tolerance for idiots and your post #98 showed you to clearly be one. I have no wish to discuss anything further with a moron like yourself. Cant be any clearer than that just hope you can comprehend

Discuss.You call me a moron and you thats part of a dicussion. You have no tolerance for any view that does not agree with your view so you cant discuss.. Many of my leftie friends are intelligent, knowkedgeable and charming, such as many of my family. Your not any of those. I doubt you even know what a moron is. So I agree shut up.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:45 pm

A moron by definition is a stupid person and judging by post #98 you fit the billing perfectly

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:47 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:A moron by definition is a stupid person and judging by post #98 you fit the billing perfectly

Was the post addressed to you? No. So why have you stuck your oar in? Nothing to do with you. But you can't shut it can you.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:48 pm

Stayingup wrote:Actually coming from a left wing half wit like you I take that as a compliment. You see express an opinion contrary to a left wing nut job and that ithe type of response expected. Thick eh? Your a bloody crackpot

For your information half wit I am fully behind Benn Corbyn and McDonnell on the EU. But maybe for some different reasons. They are anti EU because they are anti the massive power blocs that think they run the world. The ones that love the sclerotic EU so much. Same the CBI. It's fine for them they can manipulate the rules to suit them SEM's like mine can't. The sooner we are out with no levies on imports the better. I will be in a more competitive world than now.

What is your business?

I think you were being over generous at "half wit"

Quarter at a push........

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:51 pm

Stayingup wrote:The question really ought to be. Would you vote for a Marxist Communist Government that would take us back to the 70's?

I would just to teach these young Marxist super consumers a lesson. Oh and would they get one.

sort of how I feel about it,

they scream and cry about how much they want it, part of my wants them to have it.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:54 pm

Please tell me you are not that much of a moron to grasp how messageboards and threads work? A minute a go you was banging on about having a discussion with me but now ive pointed you back to your idiotic post my comments are based on you are now telling me im not allowed to comment and need to stop sticking my oar in. With every post you make you further justify my labeling of you as an idiot and a moron

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:56 pm

The "progressive" Left -

claim to LOVE diversity.

HATE diversity of opinion......

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:01 pm

So we have two choices

- Vote for a leftist marxist government that will take back to the 70s

or

- Vote for a right wing free market welfare slashing austerity loving Brexiteers who will also take us back to the 70s

What a time to be alive

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:05 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:The "progressive" Left -

claim to LOVE diversity.

HATE diversity of opinion......

Not that much of what you say does but this makes no sense. There are more leftie parties in parliament than right-wing parties. There's a far broader diversity of opinion among the left than among the right.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:08 pm

This is the problem with trying to debate someone who completely lacks in substance. All Ringo has are his little sayings that he thinks passes for an argument these days, because that's what he sees on TV and in the right-wing smear machine he calls "news".

This is what the level of discourse in this country has stooped to. Sayings. Soundbites. Emulating politician's spin and evasions like we're children trying to emulate our favourite football players.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:09 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Not that much of what you say does but this makes no sense. There are more leftie parties in parliament than right-wing parties. There's a far broader diversity of opinion among the left than among the right.

Tory
For Britain
UKIP

Lib dem
Labour
SNP

plaid cymru were left wing but according to my twitter feed the other day have become far right nazis since this new guy (who i know nothing about) has took over so I guess there are more right wing than left now.

Rest are too small to count

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:23 pm

I stopped voting when the National Socialists were wound up.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:27 pm

Vino blanco wrote:I stopped voting when the National Socialists were wound up.

Come on. Me and you together.

Today Cardiff. Tomorrow the world!

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:43 pm

I would certainly vote Labour as I support most of Labour's stated policies, particularly renationalisations to put a stop to the thieving scoundrels who currently run our railways and supply our energy. I also think the idea of large scale green energy production is a good idea, not least because this seems like an industry that has a major future and it would be a good idea for our country to be at the forefront of it. I also support higher taxation to stop the awful degradation of our public services--police, schools, NHS, social care for the elderly etc. With my current earnings, my taxes should increase. Apart from borrowing more and increasing the national debt, there is no other way of dealing with the present run down of public services, and only Labour will take this unpopular but essential step.

And anyone who has studied Marxism will know that Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party are nowhere near communists. They are social democrats and Marx despised social democracy more than any other political position, as in his view social democracy diluted the revolutionary zeal of the proletariat. A small point, but worth noting in the midst of the mud slinging.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:45 pm

Stayingup wrote:The question really ought to be. Would you vote for a Marxist Communist Government that would take us back to the 70's?

I would just to teach these young Marxist super consumers a lesson. Oh and would they get one.

I note the abuse it has generated but there is some sense in this.

Either the Tories have to move from Thatcherism to One Nation Conservatism (I.e. some market interventions to protect the ordinary worker), or Labour have to move from spend, spend, spend to a more business friendly approach.

I cannot see the latter happening and the former depends on the Thatcherites like Hammond getting sidelined.

If the Tory Remainers betray Brexit (likely) I will have no desire to reward them with my vote.

So getting Corbyn out of the way as quick as possible would have many advantages. It would show us the left and right of economics and we could spend the next 20 years deciding governments with the proper knowledge of the options instead of unproven ideology.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:14 pm

I'm not sure whether I'll vote Labour or Green as I live in a safe Labour seat, but I'll certainly be hoping for a Labour victory. As radical many paint it, a Corbyn government won't be as radical as Atlee's 1945 government, and possibly less (in terms of bringing change), than Thatcher.

Woodleyclaret - all of your list of concerns on your post (saying you wish Labour would look after these problems) are covered by by Labour policies.

Some interesting thoughts about Labour not being for the working class. Just saying that means nothing though. A lot of their policies look very good for the working class from what I can see. 400K well paying jobs in renewable energy, taking back control of utilities, railways, and water, increased subsidised childcare, increased workers rights, and a northern crossrail from Liverpool to Hull - to name a few. I don't think the Tories have anything comparable. The "out of touch Islington dinner party ivory tower" thing is a little overblown. Corbyn travels around the country a lot, and speaks to ordinary people. I don't know any Tories who do that, and certainly not Theresa May, who always looks as though she might combust if touched by an ordinary person

mill hill claret · Post by **mill hill claret** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:43 pm

I'd never vote Labour full stop

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:25 pm

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:13 pm

Another one for Labour.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:29 pm

If it be your will wrote:I'll be voting Labour! Up yours! Wahaaay!

(I joined this thread too late. Making a sensible post at this late stage seemed a bit pointless.)

You were correct on being pointless on both counts.

That being.

1. Making a sensible post.

2. Voting Labour.

Two birds. One stone.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:09 am

I'd rather do a lap around Burnley with a nail in my shoe than vote for commies..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:11 am

Haha. Get it everyone? Because if you're left-wing like Corbyn then you're a Communist and did you hear about how Stalin murdered 50 million people?

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:47 am

Hurts does it matey ? maybe if you hard left types didn't dish out the racist bigot far right descriptions of ordinary folk who voted leave or UKIP it might get more civilised..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:51 am

Yes yes. We're all hard leftists because we're not Tory/Kippers. Keep playing your role.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:45 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
- Vote for a right wing free market welfare slashing austerity loving Brexiteers who will also take us back to the 70s

What a time to be alive

Yet you are desperate to remain in the EU, who force austerity onto their members (Greece, Portugal, Italy, Ireland), who love big business and protectionism is one of their main problems!

Why would you complain about that and then support an institution that does exactly those things?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:15 am

If people don’t want to vote labour that’s fair enough but why anyone would vote for the tories is beyond me.

What have they achieved since they got in power? Other than the usual making the poorer poorer

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:19 am

bluelabrador16 wrote:Another one for Labour.

Lol, wonder why that is

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:50 am

Because I don't view the EU through a brexit prism perhaps?

Either alternative we have at the moment will do a hell of a lot of damage to the UK because of a combination of **** poor idealogical driven thinking, **** poor politicians and **** poor planning.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:57 am

Voted Labour once, never again.

Labour do to much social engineering,they also have there own political agenda at heart and not the interest and welfare of the country, they have been elected to serve.
Government is there to Govern and not to try and change peoples lifes, the only person who can change your life is you

Labour also ruin the economy and set the country back years, they are not fit to Govern

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:02 am

What I do know is that if the Tories ahead in the polls with the current situation, then all the opposition parties are doing stuff wrong.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:10 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:What I do know is that if the Tories ahead in the polls with the current situation, then all the opposition parties are doing stuff wrong.

Absolutely. Tories are making a mess of most of what they touch, with May in charge, but the alternatives are such a dire bunch to pick from. If opposing parties cannot make political capital in this climate, then it must be a sad state of affairs for British politics.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:47 am

I voted Labour when I was younger, but I've seen what happens after Labour have been in power for a few years. It doesn't surprise me that, in general, the older people get, the more likely they are to vote Conservative. Life experiences seem to count for most people. Having said that, the current Conservative party don't deserve to govern either. I will always vote in an election, but currently have no-one to vote for!

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:47 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:What I do know is that if the Tories ahead in the polls with the current situation, then all the opposition parties are doing stuff wrong.

True that

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:51 am

One Nation Conservatism is the answer if we can get it - curbing the market excesses by light touch regulation but still letting markets thrive, and deliver GDP growth.

Nick Timothy is clever at this stuff (despite the election being a disaster). Remember May’s manifesto included curbing charging for mobile phones after the phone has been fully paid for (when the initial contract lapses). The manifesto flagged this up a year before Citizens Advice did a report on it. It’s a perfect example of One Nation Conservatism which to her credit May believes in (as do Boris and Gove to be fair for a moment).

Curbing high rents, stopping the poor paying the most for the same energy use, data exploitation, complicated train fares - all could be tackled using Conservative ideology. The problem is tools like George Osborne and Phillip Hammond who don’t have a social conscience, resist it and just want to tax and cut more. The Treasury and Number 11 is a massive problem, unless it is solved, Corbyn will be in.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:21 am

Here's the wikipedia entry for One Nation Conservatism. It reads very much like what us supposed "far-left" want.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-nation_conservatism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"One-nation conservatism reflects the belief that societies exist and develop organically, and that members within them have obligations towards each other. There is particular emphasis on the paternalistic obligation of those who are privileged and wealthy to the poorer parts of society."

So, basically socialism then.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:27 am

burnleymik wrote:Yet you are desperate to remain in the EU, who force austerity onto their members (Greece, Portugal, Italy, Ireland), who love big business and protectionism is one of their main problems!

Why would you complain about that and then support an institution that does exactly those things?

Not speaking for LancasterClaret but i want us to remain in the EU because i have absolutely no faith in our government to be any better in those regards. I expect them to be much worse. The EU protect me in ways that the Conservatives, if given the chance, wouldn't.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:37 am

I'm wasn't particularly bothered about staying in the EU, but I see it as a very positive force in Europe for the foreseeable future when the alternatives are bloody worrying.

To me, Brexit is the dying last thrust of a generation that hasn't liked the changes of the last forty years, and a combination of austerity, the refugee crisis and people generally having to work their arses off just to stand still means that we are on the verge of the biggest crisis to the survival of the UK since 1744.

Having to choose between an EU that isn't perfect and UK political parties that out do themselves daily in their ideological ridiculousness isn't a great choice, but it is a fairly easy one for me.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:44 am

Voting for Corbyn is a big no from me, I can't stand the bloke. Theresa May is useless and the tories waiting to replace her are either morons or from the 16th century. Other parties are inconsequential. Poorest choice of leaders in my lifetime.