If there was a general election tomorrow would you still vote labour?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:35 am

And yet, we have to choose someone.

If you don't vote, then you can't complain if you get a terrible government.

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:02 am

Was lifelong Labour voter....but wouldn’t ever consider voting labour now that Corbyn and his cult have taken over the party...!
In fact I’d goes as far as to vote Tory to keep Corbyn out.....!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:44 am

I'd love to know what it is about Corbyn that so many people detest.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:45 am

YES! How can ordinary people ever vote Tory, it has baffled me for years.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:54 pm

would never vote labour with the present leadership that is there, well two of them really, JC & DA and it baffles me how anyone else could also

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:02 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'd love to know what it is about Corbyn that so many people detest.

What has he done during his political career that you like?

I haven't followed him that closely but he just seems to want to put a spanner in the works of everything his party put forward.

To be a leader you need to put ideas forward not just slay everybody elses.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:44 pm

Does the media play a role in undermining Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party?

‘Inaccuracies & distortions’: UK media savaged over Labour anti-Semitism row in new report

"The British media establishment has been damned in a new report over their coverage of the Labour anti-Semitism row. Media Reform accused all sides of the media of a “myriad of inaccuracies and distortions.”

The report by the Media Reform Coalition, an independent group set up to defend ethical journalism, claims that there are “95 clear cut examples of misleading or inaccurate reporting on mainstream television and online news platforms.”

The bad practices include “marked skews in sourcing, omission of essential context or right of reply, misquotation, and false assertions made either by journalists themselves or sources whose contentious claims were neither challenged nor countered.”

Despite its vaunted reputation, BBC Television News was one of the worst offenders, only beaten by the avowedly anti-Jeremy Corbyn Daily Mail and the Sun. While the Guardian, which is considered Britain’s leading liberal publication, was accused of multiple offences.

“29 examples of false statements or claims were identified, several of them made by anchors or correspondents themselves, six of them surfacing on BBC television news programmes, and eight on TheGuardian.com.”....

In his recent speech to the Labour conference, Corbyn drew huge cheers taking aim at the mainstream press. “It turns out that the billionaires who own the bulk of the British Press don’t like us one little bit.”
The Labour leader added that in Britain a “free Press has far too often meant the freedom to spread lies and half truths.”

https://www.rt.com/uk/439807-corbyn-ant ... edia-bias/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New MRC research finds inaccuracies and distortions in media coverage of antisemitism and the Labour Party

http://www.mediareform.org.uk/blog/new- ... bour-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:05 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'd love to know what it is about Corbyn that so many people detest.

His ill fitting suits. That's the main thing.

The purges, the anti-semitism, his pro-Brexit stance, the bunch of either naive or nasty people he surrounds himself with, the comically hypocritical calls for loyalty, the obsession with the middle-east, the insistence we 'talk to both sides' while only talking to one I can handle. But seriously, he's been leader for a couple of years and still can't find anything that fits.

Back to the original question, probably not. I've voted Labour more than I have anyone else but can't support him, certainly not those around him. Having said that, my vote makes no odds anyway, Barnsley has voted Labour since man invented the ballot box.

android · Post by **android** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:09 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Here's the wikipedia entry for One Nation Conservatism. It reads very much like what us supposed "far-left" want.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-nation_conservatism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"One-nation conservatism reflects the belief that societies exist and develop organically, and that members within them have obligations towards each other. There is particular emphasis on the paternalistic obligation of those who are privileged and wealthy to the poorer parts of society."

So, basically socialism then.

Does that mean you would vote Conservative?
If not, why not?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:25 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:What has he done during his political career that you like?

I haven't followed him that closely but he just seems to want to put a spanner in the works of everything his party put forward.

To be a leader you need to put ideas forward not just slay everybody elses.

What has he done during his political career that I like? Firstly he's helped transform the Labour Party from a weak opposition - abstaining on the 2014 Windrush vote, abstaining on welfare cuts, triangulating itself just to the left of quite a rightwing Tory Party - into a strong one.

I know this runs against the standard newspaper narrative of him being weak, and Labour not opposing, but look at the reality. Labour had a very strong and distinct platform at the last election (far more progressive than Miliband had), and now it's even more far reaching. So much so that I've listened to several Tories on BBC4 this morning talk about how far behind the Conservative Party is on policy, and especially positive policy. The newspapers won't report it, but those Tories know that plenty of people in this country will look at what is on offer by the parties, and conclude that Labour are well ahead in that respect.

Corbyn's rebellions (mostly against the Blair/Brown governments) should be judged by what he was voting against. The Iraq War, for example, or ID cards, or benefit cuts. And those insisting that he's 'ideological' are mistaking principles for ideology. Already the party has gone against him on an important issue (Trident), and as leader he has been forced to put aside his principles for the sake of party democracy (you could say his principles for democracy trump those of his self), so to suggest he is unyielding and inflexible is wrong. So much crap has been written about him, but it's not hard to look him up in his own words (and not those quotes that have been edited out of context).

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:03 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:What has he done during his political career that you like?

I haven't followed him that closely but he just seems to want to put a spanner in the works of everything his party put forward.

To be a leader you need to put ideas forward not just slay everybody elses.

I've never said i liked him, but plenty of people have said they hate/despise/detest him and i'd like to know what it is that's brought such hatred of someone who's never really done or said anything offensive.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:04 pm

android wrote:Does that mean you would vote Conservative?
If not, why not?

This Conservative party that's trying to privatise everything?

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:15 pm

Once Labour removes Corbyn and several other MP's plus the momentum whoppers ... maybe.

Until then it will be anyone but them

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:32 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I've never said i liked him, but plenty of people have said they hate/despise/detest him and i'd like to know what it is that's brought such hatred of someone who's never really done or said anything offensive.

Supporting the IRA is offensive to a lot of people in this country.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:34 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Supporting the IRA is offensive to a lot of people in this country.

it would be, yes, except for the fact that he never, literally NEVER supported the IRA.

Please stop getting your info from Right-Wing gutter rag newspapers.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:39 pm

fidelcastro wrote:it would be, yes, except for the fact that he never, literally NEVER supported the IRA.

Please stop getting your info from Right-Wing gutter rag newspapers.

I don't.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:40 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I don't.

You could've fooled me...

Okay, I'll go further... Stop posting lies on a messageboard.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:44 pm

fidelcastro wrote:You could've fooled me...

Okay, I'll go further... Stop posting lies on a messageboard.

Okay, why was he pictured meeting IRA figures multiple times then?

Was he appointed as an official peace process ambassador? How did he make contact with these people?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:49 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Okay, why was he pictured meeting IRA figures multiple times then?

Was he appointed as an official peace process ambassador? How did he make contact with these people?

Some stupid questions there.

If you want to try and broker peace talks, then you have to talk to your enemy, if they are willing to talk. Adams and McGuiness were the mouth pieces for the IRA back then, but they weren't exactly difficult to track down, especially for an elected member of Parliament.

He was talking and trying to compromise with them long before Major and Blair were.

What do you think he was doing talking to them? Selling them semtex?

Edit: You do know that the likes of Prince Charles and The Queen have met these IRA figures and there are photos readily available of them shaking hands with them, right?

Is that offensive to you too?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:57 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Some stupid questions there.

If you want to try and broker peace talks, then you have to talk to your enemy, if they are willing to talk. Adams and McGuiness were the mouth pieces for the IRA back then, but they weren't exactly difficult to track down, especially for an elected member of Parliament.

He was talking and trying to compromise with them long before Major and Blair were.

What do you think he was doing talking to them? Selling them semtex?

Edit: You do know that the likes of Prince Charles and The Queen have met these IRA figures and there are photos readily available of them shaking hands with them, right?

Is that offensive to you too?

Stupid questions?

Unless he was appointed by the government at the time then we should be suspicious of his activities with them until proven otherwise. He has gone on record in support of the freedom fighters as he called them and refuses to sing our National anthem.

Neither of us know what went on between them but if my life depended on it I would opt for the Corbyn supported the IRA theory rather than the other.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:02 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Stupid questions?

Unless he was appointed by the government at the time then we should be suspicious of his activities with them until proven otherwise. He has gone on record in support of the freedom fighters as he called them and refuses to sing our National anthem.

Neither of us know what went on between them but if my life depended on it I would opt for the Corbyn supported the IRA theory rather than the other.

Why should we be suspicious? He hasn't gone on record in support of the "freedom fighters" of Ireland.

I don't sing the national anthem either, so bloody what? Is that the best you can do? Someone doesn't like our dirge tune National anthem, so he's a traitor?

Grow up.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:03 pm

I don't know about you lot, but I think Fidelcastro has just admitted that he hates this country.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:04 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't know about you lot, but I think Fidelcastro has just admitted that he hates this country.

Nope. Just some of the people in it.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't know about you lot, but I think Fidelcastro has just admitted that he hates this country.

He certainly slags it off and the people in it more than he praises it but whatever gets him through the week eh.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:08 pm

One of you doesn't need the smiley, and one of you clearly does.

Jesus.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:One of you doesn't need the smiley, and one of you clearly does.

Jesus.

And your point is?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:13 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Okay, why was he pictured meeting IRA figures multiple times then?

Was he appointed as an official peace process ambassador? How did he make contact with these people?

The queen has hosted senior republican figures at Buckingham Palace. That doesn't make the queen an IRA supporter. Theresa May and Boris Johnson have had numerous meetings with Saudi officials. That doesn't mean they support Saudi Arabia (actually, since they've facilitated selling arms to Saudi, maybe they do?)

The furthest Corbyn has gone was to hold discussions with two ex-IRA members at the HoC on the subject of prison conditions in Northern Ireland. He's worked for peace in a range of disputes around the world. How has he become involved? Not sure, but if he's been pro-active about it and put himself forward, that's not something negative.

To me a bigger story in all of this is why do the press continue to churn out such negatively spun stories about him? Czech spy? A human rights and anti racist campaigner painted as anti-semitic? Didn't bow correctly? Was photoshopped to look as though he was dancing toward the cenotaph, when actually he was assisting a veteran? Going with the fashion for American political discourse on here (libtard, snowflake, batshit crazy), here's another. Follow the money. It's not really a surprise that media owned by billionaires is against Corbyn. He will bring in the second Leveson Enquiry, he'll tax billionaires more, and he's going to look at breaking up consolidated media ownership. The only thing that has surprised me about the media attacks on Corbyn is that they're so transparently unsubtle.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:19 pm

I'd vote Labour or Green. I might consider Libs if they got shut of Birtwistle.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:20 pm

Jesus

Maybe you both need the smiley!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:21 pm

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:24 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Jesus

Maybe you both need the smiley!

Maybe you need to stop quoting somebodies imaginary friend?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:26 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The queen has hosted senior republican figures at Buckingham Palace. That doesn't make the queen an IRA supporter. Theresa May and Boris Johnson have had numerous meetings with Saudi officials. That doesn't mean they support Saudi Arabia (actually, since they've facilitated selling arms to Saudi, maybe they do?)

The furthest Corbyn has gone was to hold discussions with two ex-IRA members at the HoC on the subject of prison conditions in Northern Ireland. He's worked for peace in a range of disputes around the world. How has he become involved? Not sure, but if he's been pro-active about it and put himself forward, that's not something negative.

To me a bigger story in all of this is why do the press continue to churn out such negatively spun stories about him? Czech spy? A human rights and anti racist campaigner painted as anti-semitic? Didn't bow correctly? Was photoshopped to look as though he was dancing toward the cenotaph, when actually he was assisting a veteran? Going with the fashion for American political discourse on here (libtard, snowflake, batshit crazy), here's another. Follow the money. It's not really a surprise that media owned by billionaires is against Corbyn. He will bring in the second Leveson Enquiry, he'll tax billionaires more, and he's going to look at breaking up consolidated media ownership. The only thing that has surprised me about the media attacks on Corbyn is that they're so transparently unsubtle.

You're right about we shouldn't be supplying SA with arms, and I'm not a fan of any of the politicians mentioned but at least they will be recorded meetings with why they were there. Won't they?

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:26 pm

Jesus would probably vote Labour to be fair

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:28 pm

No chance, Jesus would vote Green.

But his vote would be disqualified as he's from Palestine and not allowed to vote in this country.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:28 pm

Falcon wrote:Jesus would probably vote Labour to be fair

He was the first Socialist... apparently.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:42 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The queen has hosted senior republican figures at Buckingham Palace. That doesn't make the queen an IRA supporter. Theresa May and Boris Johnson have had numerous meetings with Saudi officials. That doesn't mean they support Saudi Arabia (actually, since they've facilitated selling arms to Saudi, maybe they do?)

The furthest Corbyn has gone was to hold discussions with two ex-IRA members at the HoC on the subject of prison conditions in Northern Ireland. He's worked for peace in a range of disputes around the world. How has he become involved? Not sure, but if he's been pro-active about it and put himself forward, that's not something negative.

To me a bigger story in all of this is why do the press continue to churn out such negatively spun stories about him? Czech spy? A human rights and anti racist campaigner painted as anti-semitic? Didn't bow correctly? Was photoshopped to look as though he was dancing toward the cenotaph, when actually he was assisting a veteran? Going with the fashion for American political discourse on here (libtard, snowflake, batshit crazy), here's another. Follow the money. It's not really a surprise that media owned by billionaires is against Corbyn. He will bring in the second Leveson Enquiry, he'll tax billionaires more, and he's going to look at breaking up consolidated media ownership. The only thing that has surprised me about the media attacks on Corbyn is that they're so transparently unsubtle.

Surely to broker peace, you need to meet both sides ? why does he only ever meet one side ?

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:43 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Some stupid questions there.

If you want to try and broker peace talks, then you have to talk to your enemy, if they are willing to talk. Adams and McGuiness were the mouth pieces for the IRA back then, but they weren't exactly difficult to track down, especially for an elected member of Parliament.

He was talking and trying to compromise with them long before Major and Blair were.

What do you think he was doing talking to them? Selling them semtex?

Edit: You do know that the likes of Prince Charles and The Queen have met these IRA figures and there are photos readily available of them shaking hands with them, right?

Is that offensive to you too?

When did he ever meet the other side ?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:46 pm

claretandy wrote:When did he ever meet the other side ?

Every day in the House of Commons probably.

Paisley, Robinson, Dodds(?) were all there at that time, weren't they?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:47 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The furthest Corbyn has gone was to hold discussions with two ex-IRA members at the HoC on the subject of prison conditions in Northern Ireland.

He held discussions with several members of the IRA, but the two that caused the specific and deserved oppobrium are the ones he invited into the House of Commons a week after the IRA had murdered and crippled several of his colleagues and collegues' wives. It hardly matters what they were talking about - if you invited members or (allegedly) former members of a violent gang, into your workplace, shortly after their gang had murdered some of your colleagues and almost murdered your boss - wouldn't eyebrows be raised?

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:13 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Every day in the House of Commons probably.

Paisley, Robinson, Dodds(?) were all there at that time, weren't they?

I think you'll find that they despise Corbyn.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:19 pm

I don't take much notice of people who don't believe in dinosaurs to be honest.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:01 pm

At this moment in time if there was a general election tomorrow the only party I’d personally vote is UKIP it’s the only party in my view that are committed to a complete break from any EU binds & addressing the immigration issue.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:04 pm

dsr wrote:He held discussions with several members of the IRA, but the two that caused the specific and deserved oppobrium are the ones he invited into the House of Commons a week after the IRA had murdered and crippled several of his colleagues and collegues' wives. It hardly matters what they were talking about - if you invited members or (allegedly) former members of a violent gang, into your workplace, shortly after their gang had murdered some of your colleagues and almost murdered your boss - wouldn't eyebrows be raised?

I think you raise an excellent point, though these were no longer serving 'gang' members. If we consider this in the context of nearly thirty-five years of service as an MP since then, any question of his loyalty should by now be fully resolved. In his current position he's been cleared to a high level for security purposes, so if the security services don't consider him to be a threat, then I think we can safely brush aside fears stoked by unfriendly newspapers.

At around the same time Boris Johnson belonged to the Bullingdon Club which had a sideline in smashing up restaurants, but when he was made Foreign Secretary nobody brought this up as evidence of his sociopathic unsuitability for the job.

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:10 pm

brexit wrote:All this week I have heard that the majority of labour party members want a general election first and if that is not possible a second referendum. But most of the labour voters (who aren't party members) I have spoken to don't want a second referendum and just want to get out of Europe and would not vote if there was a general election
So if there was a general election tomorrow would any labour voters not vote ?

I'd definitely vote blue to keep Corbyn out. Now that is a dangerous Politician who must be stopped never mind The Home Secretary in the Bodyguard!

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:13 pm

I forgot about this, when Rod had a bit of a rant about the current Labour party...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1045592230218682374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:33 pm

Healeywoodclaret wrote:I'd definitely vote blue to keep Corbyn out. Now that is a dangerous Politician who must be stopped never mind The Home Secretary in the Bodyguard!

Okay, so why is he dangerous ("and must be stopped")?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:36 pm

UKIP definitely the BNP these days.

Still, they might get us out of the EUSSR hey, and that is all that matters.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:48 pm

If there was a GE tomorrow I would vote tactically to get rid of the lousy "Con"servative MP as I did last time.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:52 pm

Why would you not?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 62491.html

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:59 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Supporting the IRA is offensive to a lot of people in this country.

Well, yes. It's easy to hate someone if you make things up about them then believe what you made up.