How long can we survive at this level ? What is our level ?

JimMcDonald · Post by **JimMcDonald** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:20 pm

Its going to happen one day. Luckily for us we have seen some of the best days at this football club. But in reality we cant compete with other teams in terms of fanbase and spending power. So when we do go down we shouldnt be angry or upset. We have been punching above our weight for a while now and long may it continue but i seriously think we dont have many more seasons left at this level.

Even teams in the Championship are way bigger than us and could outspend us and get alot higher attendances.

So my question is what is our level in English football ? I say mid table Championship level at best based on club size.

But im not complaining where we are at the moment i just know it wont last forever and i hope if when we do go down one level or even 2 we dont get a big club mentality because we ARE little old Burnley.

Rightfoot · Post by **Rightfoot** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:21 pm

I made a bold claim at the end of last season that we will be in league 1 in 5 years and I stick with that.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:23 pm

I'll go League Two then.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:24 pm

This is our level, so it is now.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:27 pm

Here we go with the little old Burnley line being dragged up again.

We should be aiming to be competitive in this league against anyone bar the top 6.

We have massive spending power compaired to most clubs in world football. We choose not to spend rather than can’t spend that’s the difference.

kritichris · Post by **kritichris** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:28 pm

With good management I see us as a Championship club with the ability to get in the Prem now and then and with poor management Div 1 beckons.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:36 pm

Right_winger wrote:Here we go with the little old Burnley line being dragged up again.

We should be aiming to be competitive in this league against anyone bar the top 6.

We have massive spending power compaired to most clubs in world football. We choose not to spend rather than can’t spend that’s the difference.

I agree that we should be aiming to be competitive in this league but it's not just as simple as spending money. We may well seem wealthy but we can't afford expensive flops who will both cost us a fortune and jeopardise our position.

We need to improve our scouting networks, no doubt about that to ensure we can source value for money in the market but until we do that, I'd prefer is to remain cautious when it comes to spending.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:43 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I agree that we should be aiming to be competitive in this league but it's not just as simple as spending money. We may well seem wealthy but we can't afford expensive flops who will both cost us a fortune and jeopardise our position.

We need to improve our scouting networks, no doubt about that to ensure we can source value for money in the market but until we do that, I'd prefer is to remain cautious when it comes to spending.

Totally agree,
we need to produce our own players through the youth team,
we've spent a fair old lump on bench-filling PL journeymen.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:44 pm

We can survive at this level for another 4 seasons, or possibly 28 seasons: I'm not 100% sure which.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:47 pm

Rightfoot wrote:I made a bold claim at the end of last season that we will be in league 1 in 5 years and I stick with that.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:47 pm

What is our level ?

Premier League.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:48 pm

I think you have to look at clubs our size, such as Bolton, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool, Wigan and other clubs such as Norwich, Ipswich, Wolves, Bournemouth and Southampton. That’s our true level - Championship, give-or-take a few seasons in leagues eitherside.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:49 pm

Every season the 3 promoted clubs will be doing well to finish top half. Currently there are plenty of other clubs leaving folk shaking their heads wondering how they got to the PL.
If we keep our manager we’ll be around for a year or five.
Sadly some of our less enthusiastic forum members won't be with us.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:49 pm

We've managed to survive at this level for two seasons on the trot,
well three actually - even if we go down.

That in itself is a pretty decent achievement.
We might not have played attractive football albeit we did have a few decent games
last season and scored some pretty memorable goals as well.
We've been virtually everyone's favourite to go down over the last two seasons
but have won over quite a number of pundits and received praise from many.
We've got a very good manager and a sensible board. Our training ground is premiership standard
and we don't owe anyone any money or have installed 'dodgy' rich foreign owners.
Yes, we could have done better in the transfer market but there's still time.

Our level may well be Championship but at present we're in the top league.

And I'm pretty sure we'll do everything to maintain that status.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:52 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:I think you have to look at clubs our size, such as Bolton, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool, Wigan and other clubs such as Norwich, Ipswich, Wolves and Southampton. That’s our true level - Championship, give-or-take a few seasons in leagues eitherside.

Wolves have a pretty much unlimited amount of money. They bought the Championship and should finish 7th at the very least. We can't compete with that.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:54 pm

I'd like to quote Stan Ternent:
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:54 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:I think you have to look at clubs our size, such as Bolton, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool, Wigan and other clubs such as Norwich, Ipswich, Wolves and Southampton. That’s our true level - Championship, give-or-take a few seasons in leagues eitherside.

Fulham, Newcastle, Wolves, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, West Ham. All also our level. Not forgetting Huddersfield and Cardiff (also Premier League), or Swansea (League Cup winners)

Add into that that 20 years ago Chelsea and Man City were neither here nor there.

20 years from now; who knows?

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:57 pm

The upcoming change to the loan system will make a lot of very good players available. I pray our scouts can come up with a gem or two.

JimMcDonald · Post by **JimMcDonald** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:58 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:Fulham, Newcastle, Wolves, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, West Ham. All also our level. Not forgetting Huddersfield and Cardiff (also Premier League), or Swansea (League Cup winners)

Add into that that 20 years ago Chelsea and Man City were neither here nor there.

20 years from now; who knows?

Newcastle. West Ham & Wolves are massive clubs

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:59 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Wolves have a pretty much unlimited amount of money. They bought the Championship and should finish 7th at the very least. We can't compete with that.

The point I am making it that to become established in the top level, it seems you need to be a big city club with a multi-billionaire owners with a footballing business infrastructure and global following.

We are a town club with an ample stadium and local fan base. We might do ten years in the top flight like Stoke, Coventry, Wigan but we won’t pull up any trees. What we have achieved in last 5 years could’ve have happened to a club like Preston or Brentford.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:59 pm

piston broke wrote:The upcoming change to the loan system will make a lot of very good players available. I pray our scouts can come up with a gem or two.

I liked that twice

If it stops the top sides stockpiling young, talented players the PL would be far more competitive throughout.

Bop · Post by **Bop** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:00 pm

Let’s just enjoy what we can, when we can, whatever the division eh? I’ve lived the football rollercoaster from top to bottom to top”ish” like many on here. But surely it’s about our enjoyment.....
There’s many that aren’t around now that had wonderful lives enjoying watching Burnley at lower levels. I’m sure they’d have loved to see us in Europe, but I bet it never diminished their ‘overall’ enjoyment of our home and away match day experiences.

I’d love to be a content millionaire with all its trappings, but it won’t prevent me from enjoying what I’ve got now.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:02 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:I think you have to look at clubs our size, such as Bolton, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool, Wigan and other clubs such as Norwich, Ipswich, Wolves, Bournemouth and Southampton. That’s our true level - Championship, give-or-take a few seasons in leagues eitherside.

********.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:04 pm

JimMcDonald wrote:
Even teams in the Championship are way bigger than us and could outspend us and get alot higher attendances.

Not at the moment, last year our revenue was £140m give or take, the only teams in the Championship that can outspend us are those with billionaire owners like Wolves and Fulham. With good management there is no reason why we can't stay in the PL. TV money counts for more than attendances these days.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:04 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:********.

You’ve rated my post as 8 stars...?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:05 pm

We have spent more time in this league than any other in our history.

There is no natural level. Its nonsense.

When we got to The Championship under Stan, people thought that was above our level. Just because we had recently been in the doldrums. And because there were the likes of Forest, Sheffields two clubs, Bastards, City etc there. But the truth is we were in that league because we deserved to be. And the same was true of them.

There is absolutely no reason we cant stay here forever. Other than if we start to think we dont deserve it and then start to act like it...

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:05 pm

JimMcDonald wrote:Newcastle. West Ham & Wolves are massive clubs

On what grounds? Newcastle have a big fan base. West Ham have been given a big stadium and as a result have increased their attendances. Wolves have been taken over by a billionaire. None of them have achieved much for at least a generation or two other than Newcastle having a decent spell under Keegan and Sir Bobby.

You really think these things make a club "massive". Or are you an a wind up?

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:06 pm

Bournemouth continue to make staying in this league look pretty easy....in that case I see no reason why we can't.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:06 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:You’ve rated my post as 8 stars...?

No. Its ********. And even though I like you, and usually respect your opinion. I think the **** you posted is ******* ********.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:08 pm

Yes, they are massive clubs... sleeping giants maybe, like Leeds, the Sheffield clubs and Aston Villa.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:09 pm

I do genuinely think we are a top end championship club by size, history and stature.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:10 pm

Right_winger wrote:Here we go with the little old Burnley line being dragged up again.

We should be aiming to be competitive in this league against anyone bar the top 6.

We have massive spending power compaired to most clubs in world football. We choose not to spend rather than can’t spend that’s the difference.

While your last paragraph is true, the big problem with it is that you should be comparing our spending power to the clubs we're competing with and if you do that it doesn't look that massive any more.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:11 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:No. Its ********. And even though I like you, and usually respect your opinion. I think the **** you posted is ******* ********.

Why though? If Burnley got relegated we’d probably do the same as the likes of Reading, Birmingham and Derby - back from once we came.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:11 pm

I think our natural level is the level we are playing in any coming season this and last it was Premier League. We all expect us to go down at some point when that happens and only then will our natural level change.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:12 pm

What a load of boll ocks is being spewed out on here. WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE AND THERE’s NOWT IN THE RULE BOOK THAT SAYS WE SHOULD BE LOWER. It might not be easy competing in the Prem but we’re bloody good at it and long may it continue.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:20 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: There is absolutely no reason we cant stay here forever. Other than if we start to think we dont deserve it and then start to act like it...

While I agree there is no natural level - remember the likes of Blackburn in the 90’s, Wigan under Whelan and I suppose Bournemouth and maybe Swansea in more recent seasons.

But thinking we can stay here is only going to make you ill. Look at Stoke, Reading, Derby, Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Portsmouth, Aston Villa, Fulham (yeah, I know, shut up), Birmingham, Sunderland, Blackburn, Bolton... you can bob around in the Premier League for donkeys years - but what did they ever do?

Get relegated, that’s it.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:34 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:Why though? If Burnley got relegated we’d probably do the same as the likes of Reading, Birmingham and Derby - back from once we came.

Well we didnt last time? And arguably didnt the time before...

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:35 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:While I agree there is no natural level - remember the likes of Blackburn in the 90’s, Wigan under Whelan and I suppose Bournemouth and maybe Swansea in more recent seasons.

But thinking we can stay here is only going to make you ill. Look at Stoke, Reading, Derby, Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Portsmouth, Aston Villa, Fulham (yeah, I know, shut up), Birmingham, Sunderland, Blackburn, Bolton... you can bob around in the Premier League for donkeys years - but what did they ever do?

Get relegated, that’s it.

Thinking we can stay here, compete with the best, maybe even BE the best will make me ill? Really? You must be on a windup!

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:39 pm

JimMcDonald wrote:Its going to happen one day. Luckily for us we have seen some of the best days at this football club. But in reality we cant compete with other teams in terms of fanbase and spending power. So when we do go down we shouldnt be angry or upset. We have been punching above our weight for a while now and long may it continue but i seriously think we dont have many more seasons left at this level.

Even teams in the Championship are way bigger than us and could outspend us and get alot higher attendances.

So my question is what is our level in English football ? I say mid table Championship level at best based on club size.

But im not complaining where we are at the moment i just know it wont last forever and i hope if when we do go down one level or even 2 we dont get a big club mentality because we ARE little old Burnley.

Great. That's cheered me up.

As it stands it's going to be tough to maintain our current status.
But suppose we had outside investment. Like Wolves for example. Who knows then.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:47 pm

Stayingup wrote:Great. That's cheered me up.

As it stands it's going to be tough to maintain our current status.
But suppose we had outside investment. Like Wolves for example. Who knows then.

Or what about if the TV money dried up?

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:49 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Thinking we can stay here, compete with the best, maybe even BE the best will make me ill? Really? You must be on a windup!

The title of the thread is “How long can we survive at this level ? What is our level ?”

Survive bring the key word, in today’s top level footballing environment, we are existing, that’s it.

I’m trying to rescue you from a massive depression when we inevitably relegated with nothing to show for it.

I’ve come to this acceptance now. I’ve decided that I don’t care for football anymore. I enjoy watching Burnley but that’s it. I’ve no interest in it elsewhere, I like watching it, but I don’t care.

As discussed in another thread, if Burnley were relegated to League 2, I’d still enjoy watching us against Doncaster as much as I do these days against Everton. But they’ll be much at stake, they’d be something to play for. In the Premier League it’s hoping to get a result, just we can there again next season. Who cares?

Leicester are an example that it could be done though.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:57 pm

Investing in the infrastructure of the club has been an incredibly shrewd move and definitely puts us in England's top 20 - long term. So many of the clubs mentioned in this thread have thrown big money at a quick fix. Long term stability is about sustainability. We're not necessarily going to pull up any trees but we are doing all the right things in terms of planning for longer term survival. the problem is, it would appear, resorting to the 'track and field' football on offer this weekend when a number of people who post on here, whether or not they are representative of the wider fan base, seem to think SD's preparation should revolve around showing re-runs of the 1970 World Cup Final with Matt Lowton in the Carlos Alberto role.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:34 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Or what about if the TV money dried up?

If it does we really are in it.

As I say outside investment. Getting a rich Russian a visa
Might do it!!!

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:42 pm

Another Stan Ternant quote
“Champagne tastes on beer money”

The beer might be a lot more expensive nowadays, but so’s the champagne

claret59 · Post by **claret59** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:43 pm

Every club in the country is at the level they deserve to be. Burnley have earned the right to be in the PL. There is no law that dictates that any club should be relegated or promoted.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:52 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Or what about if the TV money dried up?

I don't think the bubble will burst yet,but if and when it does we are better placed then many to absorb the fallout.

We have no major debts and are run in a sustainable manner.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:55 pm

I thought Besiktas was about our level so over the next few years I think we'll end up in the Turkish Super Lig

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:07 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Or what about if the TV money dried up?

That could or probably at this stage WOULD work for us not against us.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:09 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:The title of the thread is “How long can we survive at this level ? What is our level ?”

Survive bring the key word, in today’s top level footballing environment, we are existing, that’s it.

I’m trying to rescue you from a massive depression when we inevitably relegated with nothing to show for it.

I’ve come to this acceptance now. I’ve decided that I don’t care for football anymore. I enjoy watching Burnley but that’s it. I’ve no interest in it elsewhere, I like watching it, but I don’t care.

As discussed in another thread, if Burnley were relegated to League 2, I’d still enjoy watching us against Doncaster as much as I do these days against Everton. But they’ll be much at stake, they’d be something to play for. In the Premier League it’s hoping to get a result, just we can there again next season. Who cares?

Leicester are an example that it could be done though.

Your outlook and ambition on this is clearly different to mine.

If we went all the way down the leagues I would still watch us. My favourite year was 1991/92

But I definitely wouldnt get depressed by us going down. Unhappy? Of course. But until that happens pointless being upset over something that might not happen.

I might get hit by a bus tomorrow. I am not going to stay up tonight thinking about it!

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:35 pm

http://www.footballstatisticsresults.co ... tball.htmlIt looks like the rich clubs will continue to dominate. It wasn't always thus. If this link works, here is the 74/75 Div 1 table. Who can tell me what is unusual about it?