Defour’s sad news (previously: Should Defour start v Huddersfield)

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:26 pm

The naysayers will no doubt say 'never change a winning team' but we have been desperately missing Defour's quality and vision in midfield. Our midfield performance against Cardiff was very dissapointing (for want of a better phrase) and I am convinced that Jack Cork's performances will significantly improve when he is reunited with Defour.

A very difficult decision to 'rest' Westwood after his impressive recent form but it is one that I think SD should make.

If Defour is only '70 minutes PL fit' then let's get him on that pitch working his magic right from the kick off.

...We've got Defour..

UTC

nyclaret · Post by **nyclaret** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:31 pm

I'm hoping he'll start. I don't want us to be complaining at full-time because we were unable to unlock Huddersfield's back line with a killer pass. Especially when we have someone of his quality fit and ready to play.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:31 pm

Depends first of all if he's judged fit enough.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:37 pm

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:39 pm

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:45 pm

If fit yes. We may have won at Cardiff but we were woeful

Hroogar · Post by **Hroogar** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:47 pm

Based upon SD's past team selections Defour will not start against Huddersfield. If he comes on as a sub and has a blinder, then perhaps he will start the next match. Looking 4ward to seeing D4 back once again.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:52 pm

Yes.
We have missed him since he got injured way back when

Bullabill · Post by **Bullabill** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:03 pm

Mala591 ...........

"Our midfield performance against Cardiff was very dissapointing (for want of a better phrase) ....."

What, like "Our midfield performance against Cardiff was very disappointing" you mean?

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:07 pm

We have sorely missed Stephen Defour and Robbie Brady as for the past 10 months or so that they have been missing the only creative player we have had has been JBG

Not a coincidence that while they have been missing we have not won a lot of games even though yes we finished 7th

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:16 pm

Just don't see the point of having our best players available and not playing them.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:18 pm

Huddersfield will sit back and hope we can try and unlock them. And Defour is our best player at doing that. And cant wait to see him Vydra and Brady linking up whenever that may be.

But, I think the best approach is continue to nurture him back. Then after the Huddersfield game we have the international break and he will be two weeks fitter.

I think Westwood and Cork have earnt their shirt, particularly in the last two games and dropping them is the wrong message. Even if Defour is our best midfielder. The chances are he will get injured again this season and it would be foolish to upset Westwood and Cork. Besides Westwood can pick a pass himself.

I think go 442. Go fairly direct. And get at them early doors, especially down the wings. If we need that bit of vision he offers bring him on as soon as needed. Whether thats half time or 60 mins etc.

They will be hard to break down. BUT if we get the first the game will really open up. Think JBG, Vydra and Lennon will make the difference this Saturday.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:24 pm

Bullabill wrote:Mala591 ...........

"Our midfield performance against Cardiff was very dissapointing (for want of a better phrase) ....."

What, like "Our midfield performance against Cardiff was very disappointing" you mean?

It's a good job you pointed that out. I had no idea what he meant until you did.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:27 pm

Summed up pretty well cc. I'd start him on the bench, as well. It's not Football Manager, you have to think of the morale of the side that's just won 2 league games in 2. Dropping either Westwood or Cork would be a bit unfair.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:32 pm

Hroogar wrote:Based upon SD's past team selections Defour will not start against Huddersfield. If he comes on as a sub and has a blinder, then perhaps he will start the next match. Looking 4ward to seeing D4 back once again.

Basing on past performance how Dyche integrates players who have been injured should be flexed against the fact that we are dealing with our best player. It is like when Hazard is fit for Chelsea he should play. Defour is our Hazard and as such if fit should play. As good as Westwood is and has played recently he is not as good a player as Defour (and given he trains with him most days he will know this himself tbh) and so the team should be changed.

Players in other positions are more evenly matched tbh so the integration after injury can be more flexible....

Also, there is more of an argument for an unchanged team when we have played well and deserved to win. Given the level of emphasis Dyche places on the performance as opposed to the result this also adds weight to being open to changing the team

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:37 pm

It's a difficult one to be fair. I thought Vydra was coming in as an attacking midfielder but has played as a second striker so far.

We need Defour in there but who do you drop? Westwood has been the creative one recently and he would have to come in for Vydra or Cork for me.

Width will be key against them so a 5 man midfield would be preferable.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:44 pm

He'd be a lot more effective playing the first hour than the last 30 mins. I'd start him, however I don't think SD will, unless we have some injuries we haven't heard about.

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:48 pm

Playing U23 games against mainly kids may improve his general fitness but I think SD will want to see him get quite a few mins coming off the bench in a couple of PL matches, before starting him
Given the tactics of Cardiff last Sunday, that was not a game to give him a try unless we had been losing
Huddersfield will put 10 men behind the ball on Sat so he may be required in the 2nd half if we are struggling to break them down but I would be amazed if he started

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:53 pm

If he's fit, then play him. He might get injured if he plays, he might get injured if he spends the next two weeks training and then plays.

You can't not play him for fear of him getting injured now he's done all his fitness work, played for the reserves and in that cup game.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:02 pm

Win run or not. He should start every game

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:16 pm

I see many arguments above and can agree and disagree for all the reasons given.

I would say Stephen is champing at the bit to start now he has had a full 90 minute game under his belt.

I like Westy but Stephen has the edge for me, if he is fit enough to be in the squad he should start.

I also like Jeff H as well but he is not a number 10 (centre midfield for me is his best roll) where-as Matej is as shown on Sunday v Cardiff with a classic poachers goal.

Saturday will be difficult again against a team desperate to get off the bottom.

Hart
Lowton, Tarka (if not fit then Long) Mee, Taylor.
JBG, Defour, Cork, Lennon.
Vydra, Vokes

Heats, Long, Hendrick, Westy, McNeil, Ashley B, Wood

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:25 pm

I don't see how Westwood would be dropped on merit so Defour for the bench for me. He can come on after 65 mins or so for whichever of Cork/Westwood is least effective on the day & give it his all.
I think there are too many people expecting too much/too early of Defour. He's been out quite a while and has to be eased back in. It seems unlikely that he can just appear and hit the high spots straight away.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:29 pm

Stick with the current team. Bring him on later, hopefully if we’re in front and have him pick out passes to fresh legs, on the break. I think he might’ve got on last week had Dyche’s hand not been forced with the early substitution of Tarkowski.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:40 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:He'd be a lot more effective playing the first hour than the last 30 mins. I'd start him, however I don't think SD will, unless we have some injuries we haven't heard about.

If he starts the game then there is the chance to get the most minutes possible from him which makes most sense to me

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:44 pm

We all know that a Dyche doesn’t like to change a winning team, and Defour could probably do with a couple of 30 mins for the first team.

Countering that though is the thought that against Huddersfield he will be able to command the midfield more than against Man City, and if he does pick up a niggle niggle on Saturday he has a 2 week break. He might not be Dyche’s first choice away at City anyway, so could even have 3 weeks, so it might be worth putting him in. We have been awful, so despite the win at Cardiff Dyche has the reasoning.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:00 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:He'd be a lot more effective playing the first hour than the last 30 mins. I'd start him, however I don't think SD will, unless we have some injuries we haven't heard about.

This. No point huffing and puffing and bringing him on at 0-0 or 0-1 with 20 mins to go when has no time to get into the game. They will be tough to break down. Let's try and get on the front foot early.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:56 pm

There seems to be an assumption that if Defour plays, Westwood misses out. Not sure that's correct.

On form, you'd have to say Cork would be the vulnerable one, and actually arguably Hendrick has as good a pitch to start as Defour.

Its a very tough call, and team spirit and morale dictates that a player back after 9 months out doesn't just vault to the front of a queue. But equally this is the sort of game we've struggled in without him, and I'm not sure Defour is well suited to coming off the bench and adjusting to the speed of the game (not least because of his injury record), so if we want him to make an impact, he needs to start.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:06 pm

If he's fit then he should start. Easily the best midfielder at the club

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:07 pm

Cork ideally could do with a break he looks shattered,but if Defour returns he is best in tandem with Jack,if Defour is fit really he should start,who drops out is tough,Westwood played a role in both goals at Cardiff and Hendrick has had a good season when called on if required.

Ultimately this all depends on how matchfit Defour is,but even an hour of his talents could turn the game in our favour.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:35 pm

Same starters. Dependant on HT score bring him on then. Much better to bed him back in against tired legs than in the frantic first half.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:48 pm

The central midfield looked lost and disjointed with no creativity. Westwood came good with his cross for the goal but apart from that Cork and Westwood were all at sea
Hendrick and Defour would suit me if he gave both ago but I would be very surprised if the gaffer does

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:04 pm

Answering the question, yes.

The reality is he probably won't though and we will huff and puff for 75 minutes before unleashing a few more battering rams to huff and puff for another 15 minutes.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:05 pm

The dilemma Dyche may have is whether to start Defour
instead of either Westwood or Cork as I don't think he will feel confident
with just Defour and a another in a two man midfield.
Alongside either Westwood, Cork and/or Hendrick then possibly but then that would
mean losing either JBG or Lennon or playing just one up front.
So that would mean a 4-3-3 or possibly a 4-2-1-3

So it is more than likely he'll start with the same team as against Bournemouth or Cardiff
with Defour on the bench. And give him 30 mins if necessary.

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:18 pm

I’ve got a gut feeling he’s going to start on Saturday

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:51 pm

Dyche will do what he always does and be loyal to those who have the shirt, which has arguments both for and against, but he will be consistent I think.
My main worry is if a player has been out injured for so long , then surely his whole goal, drive and determination is to get back to that first start, so taking that in to account, then it must be seriously demoralizing when you get fit enough but still don't get that start, and would probably have a reverse effect.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:56 pm

I'm sure Dyche will start with the team, which started at Cardiff. It is in his loyalty based psyche not to make changes. However Defour should get at least half an hour to show how fit he is and hopefully show some of his magic.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:39 pm

ClaretAL wrote:Dyche will do what he always does and be loyal to those who have the shirt, which has arguments both for and against, but he will be consistent I think.
My main worry is if a player has been out injured for so long , then surely his whole goal, drive and determination is to get back to that first start, so taking that in to account, then it must be seriously demoralizing when you get fit enough but still don't get that start, and would probably have a reverse effect.

Not at all. He will be eager. But he wont be dissapointed if he doesnt start. If you have been out for 10 months and when you are fit we have just won 2 games there is no way you expect to start immediately. He will have to be patient. And he will be!

If he starts it sends out a totally wrong message.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:46 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Huddersfield will sit back and hope we can try and unlock them. And Defour is our best player at doing that. And cant wait to see him Vydra and Brady linking up whenever that may be.

But, I think the best approach is continue to nurture him back. Then after the Huddersfield game we have the international break and he will be two weeks fitter.

I think Westwood and Cork have earnt their shirt, particularly in the last two games and dropping them is the wrong message. Even if Defour is our best midfielder. The chances are he will get injured again this season and it would be foolish to upset Westwood and Cork. Besides Westwood can pick a pass himself.

I think go 442. Go fairly direct. And get at them early doors, especially down the wings. If we need that bit of vision he offers bring him on as soon as needed. Whether thats half time or 60 mins etc.

They will be hard to break down. BUT if we get the first the game will really open up. Think JBG, Vydra and Lennon will make the difference this Saturday.

We've failed to unlock Huddersfield twice last season. For me, if they sit deep, we give them a lesson in hoofball. Get into 'em, hit them with long diagonal balls to Vokes and pick up the scraps.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:55 pm

boatshed bill wrote:We've failed to unlock Huddersfield twice last season. For me, if they sit deep, we give them a lesson in hoofball. Get into 'em, hit them with long diagonal balls to Vokes and pick up the scraps.

Completely agree. It wont be pretty. But will be more effective.

Vydra does give us another dynamic though.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:59 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Completely agree. It wont be pretty. But will be more effective.

Vydra does give us another dynamic though.

I hope Vydra knows how to feed off scraps.
TBH I'd have Barnes up there with Vokes and just batter them

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:41 am

boatshed bill wrote:We've failed to unlock Huddersfield twice last season. For me, if they sit deep, we give them a lesson in hoofball. Get into 'em, hit them with long diagonal balls to Vokes and pick up the scraps.

An area that we’ve been much less effective in, so far this season, is picking up the second balls. We’ve seemed very off the pace in this regard.

Hroogar · Post by **Hroogar** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:39 am

Hibsclaret wrote:Basing on past performance how Dyche integrates players who have been injured should be flexed against the fact that we are dealing with our best player. It is like when Hazard is fit for Chelsea he should play. Defour is our Hazard and as such if fit should play. As good as Westwood is and has played recently he is not as good a player as Defour (and given he trains with him most days he will know this himself tbh) and so the team should be changed.

Players in other positions are more evenly matched tbh so the integration after injury can be more flexible....

Also, there is more of an argument for an unchanged team when we have played well and deserved to win. Given the level of emphasis Dyche places on the performance as opposed to the result this also adds weight to being open to changing the team

I really hope you are right................we will find out on Saturday.

My wife comes from Edinburgh and I have supported Hibs for many years and going to matches at Easter Road whenever possible. Always made welcome there. Great to see them in 2nd position.

Good luck for the future.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:57 am

He might as well start as come on later. We can always take him off if it's too much.
As said, he might just give the killer pass before they settle down.

So it's a yes from me. UTC.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:12 am

Mala591 wrote:The naysayers will no doubt say 'never change a winning team' but we have been desperately missing Defour's quality and vision in midfield. Our midfield performance against Cardiff was very dissapointing (for want of a better phrase) and I am convinced that Jack Cork's performances will significantly improve when he is reunited with Defour.

A very difficult decision to 'rest' Westwood after his impressive recent form but it is one that I think SD should make.

If Defour is only '70 minutes PL fit' then let's get him on that pitch working his magic right from the kick off.

...We've got Defour..

UTC

Surprised you want Westwood leaving out rather than Cork right now.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:22 am

claretspice wrote:There seems to be an assumption that if Defour plays, Westwood misses out. Not sure that's correct.

On form, you'd have to say Cork would be the vulnerable one, and actually arguably Hendrick has as good a pitch to start as Defour.

Its a very tough call, and team spirit and morale dictates that a player back after 9 months out doesn't just vault to the front of a queue. But equally this is the sort of game we've struggled in without him, and I'm not sure Defour is well suited to coming off the bench and adjusting to the speed of the game (not least because of his injury record), so if we want him to make an impact, he needs to start.

You obviously weren't at the Burton game if you think Hendrick has a good a chance as Defour starting.

I'm not a fan of his but he should of started the cup game but when he came on he didn't do anything of note. After Defour went off they swamped our midfield and with him not getting a sniff in the two wins I would be very surprised if he's in SDs thinking.

With him not signing a new contract yet he could be gone in January.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 am

claretspice wrote:There seems to be an assumption that if Defour plays, Westwood misses out. Not sure that's correct.

On form, you'd have to say Cork would be the vulnerable one, and actually arguably Hendrick has as good a pitch to start as Defour.

Its a very tough call, and team spirit and morale dictates that a player back after 9 months out doesn't just vault to the front of a queue. But equally this is the sort of game we've struggled in without him, and I'm not sure Defour is well suited to coming off the bench and adjusting to the speed of the game (not least because of his injury record), so if we want him to make an impact, he needs to start.

I believe Dyche has said privately that Cork is one of his best ever signings, so I see it highly unlikely that he will be left out.

MarkGreen · Post by **MarkGreen** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:04 pm

According to Dyche, Defour is having some personal issues to attend ti, so might not be involved on Saturday...

"Steven’s good, we’ll see how he is at the weekend. He’s got a personal situation he’s attending to, so we’ll leave him to that for now," - Dyche

edison · Post by **edison** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:06 pm

Down_Rover wrote:If fit yes. We may have won at Cardiff but we were woeful

same

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:31 am

Posted on Instagram RIP papa with a pic of an older looking gentleman. Guessing this is the personal issue.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:44 am

Looks like his dad has died.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bon18JtFANJ ... 9l0llgxcsl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;