Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

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RalphCoatesComb
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:20 pm

Hart 7
Tarkowski 7 (MOM)
Mee 6
Taylor 5
Lowton 5
Cork 5
Westwood 5
Lennon 5
JBG 7
Vokes 6
Barnes 5

Wood 5
Hendrick 5
Vydra 5

Another bad day at the office. We made a poor side look good !

ClaretAndJew
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:23 pm

claret54 wrote:Completely ridiculous comment about a game we drew in the Prem.
10's all round then. Should be lucky to be playing Huddersfield I suppose. Should be grateful our club is still around.

Stayingup
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Stayingup » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:28 pm

thatdberight wrote:Hart 6
Lowton 4
Mee 3 - if it's not obvious from everyone in the ground shouting that Mooy is closing you down, the fact he's right in front of you should help you see him.
Tarks 7
Taylor 4 - which sadly is not far off as good as he'll ever get in this division I think
Lennon 3
Westwood 6 - two decent shots, more mopping up, hard work, set up for crosses, some decent crossing but hardly anybody seems to see what this guy brings - possibly he's made to look bad by the execrable...
Cork 3 - is less than 3 still banned?
JBG 6
Vokes 6
Barnes 3 - love this bloke but recently shocking

Wood 3

Dyche 3. Really worried that he really doesn't have any other ideas.
Problem for Taylor is he has no-one in front of him to help him.

Stayingup
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Stayingup » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:31 pm

claret54 wrote:Completely ridiculous comment about a game we drew in the Prem.
Maybe because we have totally outplayed by the bottom team at home.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by the_magic_rat » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:31 pm

Hart 6

Lowton 6
Tarkowski 8
Mee 6
Taylor 6

Lennon 5
Cork 4
Westwood 6
Gudmundsson 7

Vokes 6
Barnes 4

Wood 5
Hendrick 6

Top Claret
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Top Claret » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:34 pm

claret54 wrote:Completely ridiculous comment about a game we drew in the Prem.

Here we go again bringing politics into football with your anti semetic bullying. The poor bastards have been through enough,now got of his case

Marple Claret
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Marple Claret » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:34 pm

Hart 6
Lowton 6
Taylor 6
Mee 5
Tarkowski 7
Westwood 6
Cork 5
Lennon 6
JBG 7* MOM
Barnes 5
Vokes 6

Wood 4

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Buckshaw_Claret » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:40 pm

Don't like saying this, but that was dreadful and Dyche's post match comments make little sense

Hart 6
Lowton 5
Tarkowski 7 MOM
Mee 3
Taylor 3
JBG 6
Westwood 3
Cork 3
Lennon 3
Barnes 3
Vokes 5

Wood 3

Claret
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Claret » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:52 pm

Hart 6
Lowton 5
Tarkowski 8
Mee 7
Taylor 6
JBG 8
Westwood 6
Cork 5
Lennon 6
Barnes 5
Vokes 8

Wood 7
Hendrick 7

Jakubs Tash
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:54 pm

Hart 7

Lowton 5
Tarkowski 8
Mee 4
Taylor 4

JBG 7
Westwood 5
Cork 4
Lennon 5

Barnes 4
Vokes 7

Wood 5
Hendrick 5

We're clearly finding ball retention a big problem and this is key. We need options to keep the ball and players that are comfortable in possession. Although our recent success has veen built on rigidity and structure, I would like to see Defour back in alongside Cork (or Westwood) with a flexible/floating 3 in front of them of JBG, Vydra and Hendrick. We need better technical players in the middle third to help keep the ball easier and for longer periods.

joey13
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by joey13 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:28 pm

Hart 5
Lowton 3
Mee 3
Tarks 7
Taylor 5
Lennon 3
Westwood 3
Cork 3
JBG 6
Vokes 6
Barnes 3

Wood 3

Nonayforever
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Nonayforever » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:15 pm

Hart 5
Lowton 3 he wanted to get sent off
Tarks. 7
Mee 6
Taylor 5 no help
JBG 7
Westwood 5
Cork 4
Lennon 4
Barnes 4
Vokes 5

Wood 3 what is the point ?
Hendrick 5

Other teams have discovered that by closing down our middle two we collapse.

Dyche nil

Stayingup
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Stayingup » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:27 pm

Vydra on for 10 minutes eight of those added and people are marking him?

Duffer_
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Duffer_ » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:32 pm

Stayingup wrote:Vydra on for 10 minutes eight of those added and people are marking him?
Is that the third comment you've made on this thread without posting your own scores? Hmmmm...

UTC!

Murger
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Murger » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:35 pm

claret54 wrote:Completely ridiculous comment about a game we drew in the Prem.
Not ridiculous at all.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by simonclaret » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:36 pm

Hart 6

Lowton 6
Tarkowski 7
Mee 6
Taylor 6

Lennon 6
Westwood 6
Cork 6
JBG 7

Barnes 5
Vokes 6

Wood 4

strayclaret
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by strayclaret » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:37 pm

Hart 6
Lowton 4
Mee 5
Tarks 7
Taylor 5
Lennon 4
Westwood 4
Cork 4
JBG 7
Vokes 6
Barnes 3

Wood 4
Woeful, set up completely wrong, why didn’t Vydra start ?

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by ClaretLoup » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:28 am

Hart 6 only one save to make apart from the goal

Lowton 6 decent defending and linked well with JBG in first half
Tarkowski 7 some great blocks
Mee 6 some shakey moments mixed with stout defence
Taylor 6 not a big fan but thought he had a decent game today but attacking play was limited.

Lennon 5 some good defensive work but not much going forward at all
Cork 4 did not affect the game and some sloppy passing
Westwood 5 over run for the majority of the game
Gudmundsson 7 great first half but seemed to vanish after the break as Huddersfield snuffed him out.

Vokes 8 all three efforts on target were by Sam and the goal was a great header.
Barnes 5 Vydra must have wondered why he had been dropped. But service was poor.

Wood 5 seems to amble about to little effect Vydra must have wondered why he wasn't brought on at this stage.
Hendrick 5 not much changed when he came on.
Vydra 5 not on long but long enough to screw up a really promising break.

People moaned a lot about Hendrick not being cut out for the No 10 role but this season he has at least maintained his standards and I think the one up top with Jeff floating between deserves a reprieve and at least might prevent the midfield rout we saw today.

CrosspoolClarets
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:43 am

Hart 7
Lowton 6
Mee 3
Tarks 8
Taylor 3
Lennon 5
Westwood 3
Cork 4
JBG 7
Vokes 6
Barnes 4

Wood 4

The main problem today was that Dyche delivered an abominable tactical performance which left his players adrift.

Huddersfield played well but had obvious limitations, they crowded midfield, we did nothing to address it, and Hogg dropping back into the back 4 to allow full backs to bomb on was a master stroke. Not playing Vydra in the hole (odd in the extreme) gave Hogg license to play. The telling stat is that Westwood completed 11 passes in the match. Cork not much better. Our pass completion was little over 60% and Dycheball was again all we had to offer as the game went on. I’ve got to be honest, I’m getting fed up with it. Rattling on about it being a good few weeks with 7 out of 9 when we have just been outplayed at home by the side bottom of the league, well, it’s pathetic.

Tarkowski was excellent, particularly his world class block, and Lowton had some good attacking touches, but most of the Terriers attacking was up their right and Taylor and Mee were woeful, in fact worse than woeful. Mee looks a shadow of his former self, raw panic on at least half a dozen occasions in the first half set the tone for an increasingly nervy display from everyone. We can’t risk a passenger - it rubs off on everyone else.

The worry is that Hart, Westwood, Lennon and Taylor have not really played in a successful Burnley team yet (I think Hart is an anomaly in that observation). We have won the odd game with them in, but generally it is a poor performance.

BabylonClaret
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by BabylonClaret » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:27 am

Hart 6 - largely redundant
Lowton 5 - too much space given 2nd half
Tarkowski 8 - playing v well
Mee 3 - bullied again for the goal, almost cost 2 more, passing poor, decision making awful. He us the skipper ffs - no wonder the rest are poor
Taylor 5 - struggling this season which is odd because last year he looked decent
JGB 7 - looked dangerous and the Terriers shacklee him with 3 second half
Cork 3 - indecisive, weak and dreadful passing
Westwood 6 - decent enough given he was so exposed
Lennon 5 - try8ng hard but the struggle in the middle leaves him with few options
Barnes 3 - offered nothing
Vokes 6 - great goal, good first half. Struggled second

Wood 4 - struggled to affect game. Bizarre sub
Hendrick 6 - should have been on at 55 mins instead of Barnes

Awful sec9nd half where our mnager made some dreadful tactical mistakes. Bringing Wood on when we needed to press them harder in the middle was mental. Huddersfield hardly threw men forward and yet we contrived to invire them.on to eventually score despite looking more toothless than Cardiff. Having been 1-0 up its a disgrave we didnt see this side off.
This user liked this post: Stalbansclaret

fungus_the_bogeyman
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by fungus_the_bogeyman » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:33 am

Hart 6
Lowton 5
Mee 4
Tarkowski 7*
Taylor 4
Gudmundsson 6
Westwood 4
Cork 4
Lennon 5
Barnes 4
Vokes 6
Wood 4

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by ashtonlongsider » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:17 am

Hart 7- Couldn't fault, I just wish he was more vocal with the defence like Tom is/(was?)
Lowton 4-I've got real concerns over this position.
Tarkowski 8-He was excellent and I doubt he was fully fit.
Mee 5-Poor and where are the leadership qualities?
Taylor 4-I've been praising this lad but he was found wanting today.
JBG 8-The only player who offered us anything going forward.
Westwood 4-It's either him or Corky but not both for me.
Cork 4-Had a really poor game by his standards.
Lennon 4-Seems like he's had his good game for this season. I'd be inclined to move Taylor into his position when Ward fit.
Barnes 4-Needs to concentrate on staying on his feet.
Vokes 6-Missed a couple of chances but not difficult for opposition to neutralise the tactic of hoofball to him.

Wood 4-Couldn't believe it when he came on for Barnes.
Vydra- Should have come on a lot earlier. This game was screaming out for him.

Beagleheart
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Beagleheart » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:17 am

Hart 6
Lowton 6
Tarkowski 7
Mee 4
Taylor 5
Lennon 5
Cork 5
Westwood 6
JBG 7
Vokes 6
Barnes 4

Wood 5
Hendrick 6

claretgimmer
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by claretgimmer » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:47 am

Hart 5 Could do nothing with goal but doesn`t dominate even 6 yd box, defence always looked better organised with Heats in goal
Lowton 5 game of two halves good first poor second
Tarkowski 8 Held the defence together
Mee 5 Will the real Ben Mee stand up, only a shadow of the previous model
Taylor 4 Poor defensively and poor going forward, don`t know the situation with Ward but needs to return
Gudmundsson 8 Mom for me, looks our only creative player
Cork 5 Had better days
Westwood 5 See Cork
Lennon 4 Offered nowt going forward, his starting tells me how devoid of creative ability our squad really is
Barnes 4 Like Ash but poor today
Vokes 7 Carried a threat all day and scored a cracking goal but needs Vydra to play off him not Barnes

Wood 3 Poor sub, looks devoid of confidence
Vydra 4 Not on long enough to mark but should be starting at the moment alongside Vokes
Hendrick 4 Still only passes sideways and backways

Dyche 10 For his ability to watch absolute dross and dress it up as a game of two halves, poor team selection, poor choice of subs, poor tatics, poor everything really

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Zenwisdom » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:14 am

Hart 7
Tarkowski 7
Gudmundsson 7
Vokes 5

3 for the rest Barns can’t trap a bag of cement
Cork carrying the can and can’t
Westwood plays with blinkers on
Both fullbacks below average
Wood needs vydra along side
Mee poor distribution Gibson knocking on door
Miss Defour and Hendrick plays better with Brady
Dyche back to the drawing board

thatdberight
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by thatdberight » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:21 am

Stayingup wrote:Problem for Taylor is he has no-one in front of him to help him.
I agree that's part of the problem. Not just that but Mee inside him isn't playing well. That trio of left centre-back, left-back and left-sided midfielder are a unit. However, I still have concerns about Taylor.

Sproggy
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Sproggy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:42 am

Hart 6
Lowton 4
Mee 4 - could we have the real one back please?
Tarkowski 6
Taylor 3 - his only pass is a hopeful loft forward and he's painfully one-footed
Lennon 3
Westwood 3
Cork 3
JBG 7
Vokes 6
Barnes 3 - Didn't realise he was playing until his name came up when he was being subbed
Wood 3

As each week goes by, our summer transfer window looks more and more bizarre.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:08 am

I think Lennon helped out as much as he good, but Huddersfield just had three/four players in little passing triangles around Taylor so he got exposed as soon as he did anything.

He was screaming for for help from the CM and Mee and just wasn't getting it.

I thought he did alright but just got submerged.

It needs looking at because every scout who watched that game could tell how to get to us, and every other team in the prem would be better than Huddersfield at it.

taio
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by taio » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:11 am

Hart 6
Lowton 4
Tarkowski 8*
Mee 5
Taylor 4
JBG 7
Westwood 5
Cork 4
Lennon 4
Barnes 4
Vokes 6

Wood 4 - perplexed when Dyche brought him on.

Hibsclaret
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Hibsclaret » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:24 am

Not really a surprise they exploit the worst player in our team.

Last season we defended as a group and everyone had confidence in each other. It only takes one player out of their depth to affect the games of a number of others and that’s what we are seeing.

Urgent left back change required

Culmclaret
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Culmclaret » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:25 am

Hart 5. Virtually nothing to do but failed to hold a straightforward shot and his kicking was below average

Lowton 6. Part of our much stronger right side

Tarkowski 7. One or two errors but generally as convincing as his partner was not

Mee. 5. What has happened to him defensively? I suspect he is being pressed harder and struggles with his decision making

Taylor 5. Not looking like a PL left back

Gudmundsson 7. Not sure what we would do without him

Cork 5. The opposition have long worked out that if they don't give him time and space we don't function

Westwood 6. Tried hard.

Lennon 5. A winger played as an auxiliary defender, which is, unsurprisingly, a role to which he is not suited

Votes 7. Did well with not very much apart from the two delicious crosses from JBG

Barnes 5. No service, which meant we were playing with 10 men


Wood. 5. As baffling a substitution as you will ever see...

Hendrick. 5. Except for this one.....


Vydra. ...as others have said, utterly pointless bringing him on this late


Dyche. Watched as we were overrun by Huddersfield, who outfought and outthought us. Seemed incapable of turning the tide of events.

I normally sit on the spectrum between Happy Clapper and broadly contented but this was deeply worrying. No energy, no craft, no intelligence...and we have lost our defensive edge.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Roosterbooster » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:11 pm

Hart 6
Lowton 6
Mee 4
Tarks 7
Taylor 6 (He's our new fall guy - I actually think he had an OK game. I made a point of watching him closely for the first 20 minutes and he was defensively very sound. His covering positioning was textbook)
Cork 6
Westwood 6
JBG 7
Lennon 6 (Our other fall guy. Works hard defensively in a role he isn't perfectly suited to, and does at least make us mildly dangerous on the break)
Barnes 4 I honestly don't remember anything he did
Vokes 7 Absolutely top drawer header

Wood 4 The offside at the end summed it all up for me. How you can be a striker and still be offside for a perfectly timed pass when the defence don't even step up is baffling. It's basic stuff.
Hendrick 6 Worked hard, needs a run in the team (playing a different style of football)
Vydra 5 Didn't really make a bold claim to start during his cameo, but I'm not sure why he wasn't starting with Vokes from the off anyway

Dyche 3 I've never questioned the man so early in a season before, but it's beginning to look very gloomy. He is very much a manager who likes to pick a style, and go with it. That's why his bench usually has an option for every position to be replaced, like for like, rather than focussing on how to change things via substitutions. He does occasionally change things, but usually its very late in the day. And our plan A only looks like working when the opposition either capitulate / miss all their chances. Our current style of football is stale, and very difficult on the eye. Wins make it much easier, but I don't see much changing unless the style changes. We are so easy to play against. 3 of our 4 most creative players didn't start / feature yesterday, so when Brady and Defour are back, the style might change naturally, but it seems a pity to be at home against Huddersfield, and not play Vydra with Vokes, and give McNeill an opportunity to at least come on and have a go at them. Cork and Westwood are bound to look poor when the system sets them up to be so isolated. I'm not sure Dyche can be blamed for Ben Mee though...

Ric_C
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Ric_C » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:28 pm

Hart 6 - Dodgy save and panicky kicking
Tarkowski 7 (MOM) - Would have been an 8 but for poor passing
Mee 5 - Seriously underperforming, but he'll be back
Taylor 4 - Imagine we were a hairs breadth from getting Andrew Robertson and we ended up with Taylor
Lowton 5 -mixed bag, good crossing, but poor defensively
Cork 4 - Looks shattered, needs a rest.
Westwood 5 - meh
Lennon 4 - Just can't play in this SD system. I watched him closely for most of the match, and he just lets his man go, time and time again. If he offered a lot going forward, then great, but as it stands, he is a last 20 player when we are going for the win, off the bench.
JBG 7 - Thank God he's fit
Vokes 6 - Could have had another
Barnes 4 - offered nothing, body language all wrong

Subs:
Wood 5 - Offside AGAIN in his only chance to do something
Hendrick 6 - actually looked like he wanted to keep the ball.
Vydra 4 - his one real chance to play in JBG and he tripped over the ball

Awful performance. Quite what SD was thinking in the way we setup is beyond me.

You could see after 5 mins that they could just work the ball up the sides of the pitch with minimal pressure on the ball. This led to them getting many easy corners. Why we didn't address this at all was baffling. I'd like to see the running stats, as they seemed to close us down all over the pitch, while we just sat back and covered the passing lanes. It was like we were the away side.

The problem is that giving teams no pressure on the ball makes average sides look good. It was only a matter of time before they scored.

Positives?
We didn't lose
Some great blocks by Tarks
Some great crossing by Lowton.
We surely can't play worse than that again

not waving
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by not waving » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:31 pm

Hart 7 Did nothing wrong except the 'hart in mouth' moment when he was closed down
Lowton 6 what's happening to him? Seems to be playing like Mr Angry all the time
Taylor 6 Good first half but I think they targeted him after half-time
Tarkowski 8 Brilliant shot-stopping...certainly saved a goal in the first half. Yes, he can be a little ambitious at times
Mee 7 Did what he had to do well and what he didn't have to do very badly
Cork 5 Seen a lot better and was crowded out in the second half
JBG 8 How many more assists? Just get the ball to him more often, please. They marked him out the game after half-time
Lennon 5 Shame as he looked up for it. Why didn't he switch flanks with JBG?
Westwood 6 Se Cork. Squeezed out after half-time and this managed him out of the game
Vokes 7 First half a real centre forward of a nuisance. Brilliant goal
Barnes 4 Shame. The idea was to distract the defenders and let Vokes feed but he didn't really affect anything

Wood 5 Tried hard (hard wood?) but no service and ineffectual
Vydra N/A Shame the game didn't allow him on a few minutes earlier as we were stuck giving away corners
Hendrick 6 Nice idea but too deep to have any real affect

All in all a game of two halves. Satisfied at half-time but always thought we needed that second goal. We were out-thought in the second period where Huddersfield's tactics wee to crowd us out in midfield and give our defending clearances only scraps to feed from.

Dark Cloud
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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:12 pm

Hart 7
Lowton 6 (after a couple of much better performances he dipped badly again yesterday)
Tarks 8
Mee 6
Taylor 5 (Looks to have a confidence issue like even HE isn't sure whether he's quite up to PL standard)
Cork 6
Westwood 6
JBG 7
Lennon 5
Vokes 7 (+ 1 for well taken goal)
Barnes 5 (I'm actually a fan, but when it's not his day, it really isn't his day. Did next to nothing imo)

Wood 5
Hendrick 7 (Looked lively and tried to spark us)

Huddersfield are clearly having a touch of second season syndrome when you look at their results and the league table, yet they were far the better team for most of the match. We look slow and disjointed and we're playing as individuals rather than as the collective team which has always been crucial and our strength. Mooy and Billings I assume are decent, but no world beaters, but they absolutely dominated the game and our midfield was chasing shadows throughout. It was lucky that Udders were as powder puff up front as we were or we could easily have been beaten. Things were already pretty dire when imo SD compounded our problems by introducing Wood to play alongside Vokes which has been tried numerous times and DOESN'T WORK because they're too similar!! It was blindingly obvious Vydra should have replaced Barnes and we MIGHT have got onto the front foot more. In the end only one team were rushing to keep the ball in play and to take kicks and throw ins quickly because they sensed a winner and it wasn't us. All a bit worrying and although 7 points out of 9 and mid table has to be rather pleasing when you really aren't playing well, we have to remember who our next 2 opponents are and assume we'll get nothing and things won't look so great.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:04 am

Some on here have given Tarkowski 3 and 4 ?

Certainly makes it easy the ratings to know who to ignore

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:33 am

thatdberight wrote:I agree that's part of the problem. Not just that but Mee inside him isn't playing well. That trio of left centre-back, left-back and left-sided midfielder are a unit. However, I still have concerns about Taylor.
Your right that they should be working as a unit.
Lennon works his socks off defensively whichever side of the pitch he's operating. I think it's Mee not totally, but mostly to blame. The ball inside that Wolves played inside for their goal, Westwood was caught flat footed, but Mee last season, would have been on it like a rash. I'm not sure where his head has gone this season.
IF it's true that he and Tarks have had a falling out, then it either needs sorting, or one of them has to go. That's an easy choice to make at the moment.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by HiroshimaClaret » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:54 am

claretspice wrote:No disguising that that was a very poor day at the office, and (even if frustrations will probably colour perspective a bit this evening) the players and Dyche have to look at themselves a little after such a poor outing.

Hart - 5 - No saves to make, no chance with the goal, but consistently poor distribution - both the execution, and sometimes the thought processes - kept putting us under pressure needlessly, and I also thought he could have come and relieved the pressure in our own box once or twice.

Lowton - 5 - Neat enough in the first half, but increasingly untidy as the game went on.

Taylor - 4 - One or two tidy bits of footwork aside, he struggled badly today - both in defence, and also in attack (when more than once his crossing was found wanting. If Ward isn't currently an option for some reason, it wouldn't be a complete surprise if Gibson found himself playing at left back when he's fit.

Tarkowski - 9 - One poor cross-field pass in the first half aside, I thought he was absolutely excellent: a couple of goal saving blocks, lots of headers and lots of mopping up - at times it looked like he was keeping us afloat single handedly in the second half (despite appearing to be managing that groin niggle more than once). If he had any sort of weakness it was his distribution, but its not easy when the only targets are statues.

Mee - 7 - Not great in possession, and played us into trouble needlessly at least twice. But after marking him down for that, he was otherwise defensively excellent - not in the same class as Tarkowski, but excellent. To limit a side who had as much possession and territory as Huddersfield to a single meaningful shot on target requires excellent defending (even when those opponents are Huddersfield rather than Man City).

Cork - 5 - Said in the week I thought he was a serious candidate to give way to Defour or Hendrick, and I stand by it. He's a bit slow to the second ball at the minute, and he's not looking as composed in possession either. In the end, he was anonymous today, apart from a reasonably solid defensive effort, which isn't enough in games like this.

Westwood - 6 - Created a good early chance for Vokes with a gorgeous cross, got into attacking positions a couple of times effectively in the second half and was generally the midfielder most likely to make something happen, but like Cork he was guilty of being far too passive at times and failing to get to the second ball in midfield.

JBG - 7 - A couple of excellent crosses, most obviously the one from which Vokes scored, and he at times looked the only Burnley player wiling to get the ball down and try and play.

Lennon - 6 - Completely wrong to say he did "nothing" offensively today - we didn't get him into the game enough, but he created two good chances in the second half: once when JBG's shot from Lennon's pull back was almost tickled in by Vokes, and once when Westwood got straight onto his pull back and nearly knocked Schindler out with a goal bound shot. That was a good return given the meagre platform he was given, and he got through a tonne of defensive work again.

Vokes - 7 - Absolutely world class header for the opening goal, and looked to be fouled in the box 10 minutes later when going for a repeat. Otherwise, a bit of a threat, but the quality of a ball into him wasn't good enough, and the ineffectiveness of Barnes meant that Huddersfield were able to make the space around him congested and control the second ball.

Barnes - 4 - Completely ineffective from start to finish. Didn't win much in the air, and apart from drawing a couple of fouls did nothing in attack apart from get in Vokes' way. Those two are both worthy players, but they're not a partnership - and apart from away at Palace 2 seasons ago when we were rank underdogs, I can't think of a single good performance when they've been paired together. Rightly hooked, but...

Wood - 5 - ....this was the wrong sub. Looks out of form and low on confidence, and again he's not an ideal foil for Vokes, so the result of the change was to emphasise the gap between our front 2 and midfield.

Hendrick - 7 - Surprised that Westwood was the one to make way, but in his 20 minutes on the pitch he made more positive runs or passes that took defenders out of the game, than Westwood or Cork managed between them in a combined 160 minutes, whilst also twice bailing us out defensively.

Vydra - N/A - can only assume there's a reason behind closed doors why he didn't start, because I can't think of any good reason based on football reasons why he wouldn't have started, or indeed been the Plan B when Plan A failed. In his meaningless spell on the pitch, he showed a bit of energy and drive, even if he did make a bit of a mess of the best counter-attack we managed in the second half.


So - on the plus side, we defended well, looked compact without the ball, and I don't think its fair to accuse the players of a lack of commitment. But in all other respects, that was dire. I'll happily look for the mitigations when we're not especially effective against United, or Cardiff and so on, but its very hard to find any mitigations today. Huddersfield weren't very good, but we allowed them to control the game, played into their hands tactically and technically time and again and were generally alarmingly passive in our approach to the game.

There are still some players well below their best and one or two players - notably the centre halves - had to carry a number of players whose lack of form and confidence made them passengers today. But I don't think Dyche helped them today. The starting line up surprised me, and the subs didn't work. Vydra showed good signs of a partnership with Vokes against Bournemouth, and Dyche himself pointed out what he adds on MOTD 2 last Sunday when he highlighted his contribution to Vokes' winner (by coming short and dragging a defender, allowing JBG to run free). So to leave him out against a team who were always going to play three centre backs and try and bung up the middle of the pitch, in favour of a second target man, appeared on paper to be very odd indeed. Equally, Hendrick added a more positive aspect to our midfield play which had previously been lacking.

Thankfully, we've got the 7 points from the last 3 games that we really needed, but we need to improve on this performance- both to pick up points, and to keep the fans from drifting out of love with what we're trying to achieve.
Always enjoy reading your posts and you could be put forward as a fine ambassador of this message board (usually pretty spot on with your `balance`). Saying that, your suggestion in this post that frustration might cloud judgement I could be considered slightly patronising. I have luckily had 36 hours away from the computer and that performance and my indignation and sheer incredulity has not diminished. It just popped into my head that the feeling I had watching that (also Cardiff away to a slightly lesser extent) reminded me very much of how I felt sat on the Jimmy Mcilroy watching in utter despair as we gave nothing against Rovers under Laws as we crawled towards relegation. No purpose, no visible plan, no team cohesiveness and absolutely no passion.

Dyche, for all the magnificence of his achievements as our manager, has some serious questions to answer. Huddersfield, a team supposedly without confidence, completely out footballed, out muscled and showed more passion in their little fingers than our team en masse. It was pathetic viewing. I would have hated to have been in attendance.

Anyway, as I said previously, you`re a superb poster but that one line in your summary really stood out.

Have a great week, sir.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by claretspice » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:29 pm

Hi Hiroshima - sorry if it did jump out in that way. The point I was trying to make was that we're fans, so we probably do react more strongly to good and bad performances than an objective observer would - because we care. Nothing wrong in that, it just is what it is. So for my own part, I suspected when I wrote that on Saturday evening that (whilst I always try and keep myself on an even keel) I'd have chilled a bit 48 hours on. Same for others - there's always a big reaction on here after a particularly disappointing defeat or performance, and in many respects (if not all) that is healthy.

For what its worth, on this occasion, I think I'm in pretty much the same place now as I was on Saturday. I don't think there was any lack of effort or commitment, and I thought some of the comments on here about whether the players cared enough or were committed enough were wrong and unfair (and I disagree that there was any lack of passion), but there was definitely a lack of dynamism and oomph to the performance, and there was a timidity to the way that we played that worried me. I also agree Dyche has some questions to resolve in his own mind about the performance and set up. Hopefully the international break will help us resolve all of that. I still think we've got good players and an excellent manager and we'll be OK, but it is shaping up to be a bit of a grind at present.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Stayingup » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:42 pm

Duffer_ wrote:Is that the third comment you've made on this thread without posting your own scores? Hmmmm...

UTC!
Someone said you can't give 2's.

For me Tarks mom 8, closely followed by JBG 7. Hart 6, Vokes 6. The rest? Guess.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by TVC15 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:25 pm

Hart 7 - did well again and no chance with goal. Cannot understand anyone scoring him low. Been our best player this season.
Lowton 4 - not sure whether he was under instruction to not go forward or whether this was because we were outnumbered in midfield but when Lowts is pushed back like this it has a massive impact on our team.
Tarks 8 - great game. Couple of dodgy wembley passes but along with Hart the only one who has played well for the most part of this season. As goal saving blocks go his in the first half was world class.
Mee 4 - WTF is wrong with him this season ? Slow, gave the ball away as last man twice and distribution poor
Taylor 4 - i thought his first half display was his best for a few weeks actually. Second half back to type and big question marks as to whether he is good enough for this league.
Cork 4 - he's in the middle of a poor spell. Never thought I would want to see him rested as he has been brilliant for us...but if he carries on playing like this then it would only be fair to play Hendrick in his place as do not think Defour and Westwood works.
Westwood 6 - did ok...he usually does. Would be unfair to drop him as others have played a lot worse this season but we cannot accommodate both him and Defour in the same side and we desperately need the Defour of last season back as he runs the game and helps set the pace for the rest of the team.
JBG 6 - another assist and one of the better performers on the day but with so little possession for us its hard to score him any higher.
Lennon 5 - same as JBG but both wingers were impacted by Lowts not getting forward and by Taylors poor quality.
Vokes 7 - great header and definitely worked hard (though that's not enough at this level)
Barnes 3 - it hurts me giving a 3 to Barnes but I did not recognise him on Saturday. Body language was not great and have not got a clue what was up with him. Maybe going from no 1 striker at the end of last year to no 4 striker in the last couple of weeks back to no 2 striker yesterday (etc etc) is not agreeing with him

Wood 3 - zero contribution. I keep on thinking back to the Liverpool game at Anfield last year where he won nearly everything in the air, his movement was great and his touch was great....and then I see him this season and think he must have been swapped for some little kid like Tom Hanks in Big !!
Hendrick 6 - not on for long but looked good to me. Got to be pushing for a place.

SD got it wrong on Saturday. I am assuming Vydra was not injured and have not got a clue why he did not start (and even worse got brought on in injury time). They outnumbered us in midfield -it was embarrassing to watch. The fact that we did not change it to try and regain a hold in the game and get some possession was perplexing. It was not just the fact that 4-4-2 was clearly not working as we could not get the ball it was the impact this had on one of best players when we are playing well - Lowton. When Lowton plays well and pushes forward the wingers play well and he puts in great crosses for the strikers...changes the whole dynamic of the game when he does not get out of his own half.

Man City, Chelsea and then away games v West Ham and Leicester up next.....gumph

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:16 pm

TVC15 wrote: Mee 4 - WTF is wrong with him this season?
Two words
Charlie Taylor

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by TVC15 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:20 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Two words
Charlie Taylor
Nah - that’s rubbish.
Taylor is struggling for sure but it’s stretching the imagination to think he is to blame for Mee losing the ball twice when he was last man or passing a ball 30 yards away from his intended target.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:24 pm

TVC15 wrote:Nah - that’s rubbish.
Taylor is struggling for sure but it’s stretching the imagination to think he is to blame for Mee losing the ball twice when he was last man or passing a ball 30 yards away from his intended target.
It’s a team game and when members of a team have no faith in some members of the team it has an effect. We are not defending as a unit because whilst he does the football version of the okey cokey in not knowing his distances or when to close and when to leave a gap everyone else can see this and is affected.

Our defence last season and the year before was a well oiled machine. It only takes a player clearly not good enough to affect everyone else and sadly that is the case

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by TVC15 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:42 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:It’s a team game and when members of a team have no faith in some members of the team it has an effect. We are not defending as a unit because whilst he does the football version of the okey cokey in not knowing his distances or when to close and when to leave a gap everyone else can see this and is affected.

Our defence last season and the year before was a well oiled machine. It only takes a player clearly not good enough to affect everyone else and sadly that is the case
As said that's rubbish.
Why is it not affecting Tarks or Joe Hart then ?

Mee needs to concentrate on improving his own game - he is a senior player (on a big contract). He should be the one who is supporting and guiding Taylor. I still fail to see how you can blame Taylor for Mee losing the ball twice in ridiculous positions on Saturday.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by KlyBfc » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:37 pm

Whilst to some extent I agree with some of Hibs Clarets observations about Taylor, you only need to watch Watford’s second goal and the way Deeney floats unchecked into acres of space and the way Mitrovic saunters in at Fulham to see that the defensive issues down our left side (I include the left of the centre in this) aren’t solely Taylor’s fault.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:23 pm

KlyBfc wrote:Whilst to some extent I agree with some of Hibs Clarets observations about Taylor, you only need to watch Watford’s second goal and the way Deeney floats unchecked into acres of space and the way Mitrovic saunters in at Fulham to see that the defensive issues down our left side (I include the left of the centre in this) aren’t solely Taylor’s fault.
Point taken.

I would urge anyone to watch the Wolves game. In the first half alone there were 3 golden chances created due to inept play down our left.

We didn’t play well at Fulham and in the second half against Watford at a time where we were basically travelling and playing with limited practice.

Since we have been able to properly prepare for games and particularly the last 4 games our left back has been absolutely woeful and it effects the whole team because they know he ain’t good enough. Tarky was quite rightly bollocking him all game on Saturday and yes Ben made some mistakes but there is an air of panic every time the other teams target our left.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:16 am

What's your excuse for Ward at Burton ?

People have had restraining orders for less than your addiction to him.

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by Hibsclaret » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:52 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:What's your excuse for Ward at Burton ?

People have had restraining orders for less than your addiction to him.
Given you’re on the coast explains the fact that you have your head in the sand. Ward is irrelevant to whether Taylor is good enough but he for sure has never played as badly for 4 games in a row....

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Re: Burnley v Huddersfield - Player Ratings

Post by TVC15 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:21 am

Hibsclaret wrote:Point taken.

I would urge anyone to watch the Wolves game. In the first half alone there were 3 golden chances created due to inept play down our left.

We didn’t play well at Fulham and in the second half against Watford at a time where we were basically travelling and playing with limited practice.

Since we have been able to properly prepare for games and particularly the last 4 games our left back has been absolutely woeful and it effects the whole team because they know he ain’t good enough. Tarky was quite rightly bollocking him all game on Saturday and yes Ben made some mistakes but there is an air of panic every time the other teams target our left.
I’ve watched the game and Taylor was no worse than Bardsley. Plus if you actually watch that game without just looking at Taylor who was it that kept on losing the ball in their own half ? It was our midfield - they lost the ball in dangerous positions several time in the second half especially which meant that Wolves broke in numbers with their midfield and full backs. How many times were our full backs and defenders outnumbered ? How many times did we find ourselves with 2 or 3 players on the line clearing the ball ?
We were absolutely useless that day - to pick one player out and blame him for that display is pathetic.

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