Lack of leaders in midfield

[Vegas Claret]

Barton and Marney gone and have not been replaced (it's not just the on pitch time I'm talking about here). Ben Mee at the moment is playing like anything other than a captain.

Roll on January and hope the board back the manager

[cockneyclaret]

Good luck there..
It'll be the same old script.. I think we all know that by now

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I agree I think midfield is where our problems mainly lie. Desperate to get Defour back In someone who can put foot on ball under pressure and make a pass. The ball is being treated like a hot potato at the minute by the majority of our players.

[Vegas Claret]

my main concern is I don't see a single player bollocking another or trying to encourage someone like we had with Barton, Marney and John Deary !

[burnleymik]

You could have a world-beater of a midfield, but if you just constantly hoof it over their head to the front men, they are always going to struggle.

[burnleymik]

my main concern is I don't see a single player bollocking another or trying to encourage someone like we had with Barton, Marney and John Deary !

This I agree with, there doesn;t seem to be anyone who wants to lead the team and keeps the other players on their toes.

The way the shoulders were slumped and they were wandering about in the second half was a sorry sight.

[Vegas Claret]

I'm not talking about a world beater - I'm talking about a leader, we don't have one

[ClaretAL]

There is a growing trend in the Premier League where player power results in the sacking of a manager, a la Chelsea, Swansea and what seems to be happening at united now, where they play no to an optimum. I sincerely hope this is not what is happening at our club, as it has been well documented that unrest of players following not being able to ply their trade in the Europa games, after busting a gut to get us in the Europa league last season.

[TheFamilyCat]

There is a growing trend in the Premier League where player power results in the sacking of a manager, a la Chelsea, Swansea and what seems to be happening at united now, where they play no to an optimum. I sincerely hope this is not what is happening at our club, as it has been well documented that unrest of players following not being able to ply their trade in the Europa games, after busting a gut to get us in the Europa league last season.

Well documented? Where? Other than speculation on this messageboard?

[claretspice]

Barton and Marney gone and have not been replaced (it's not just the on pitch time I'm talking about here). Ben Mee at the moment is playing like anything other than a captain.

Roll on January and hope the board back the manager

Ashley Westwood was captain of Crewe at 18. He's therefore likely to be a leader.

Pretty sure Jack Cork has captained the last 3 clubs he's been at, at different times (even if not always club captain, though I think he was at Swansea). He's therefore likely to be a leader too.

Dean Marney on the other hand was known for being a quiet fella, even if he played in a more blood and thunder way.

So in summary, I'm not sure there's any basis to this proposition on which this thread is based at all. There appears to be a desire to find ways, any old ways, of having a pop at the players or management, and think it reflects worse on the posters concerned than on the targets.

[Rick_Muller]

I don’t think the OP is far wrong in the assessment. We do need a leader on the pitch and it is lacking. My personal observation is that we didn’t win enough 2nd balls - we certainly did the hard work and closed down to challenge, often successfully, but once we challenged, the 2nd ball almost inevitably went their way. I’m not sure leadership on the pitch can sort that, or if it’s just a confidence thing, but we really should be winning our fair share but we’re just not.

My real fear is apathy from some senior players and it’s killing the confidence - I don’t normally single our players who need to show more of what they’re capable of, but Ben Mee has looked off most of the season, and Jack Cork is either carrying a knock or fearful of injury, he shirked out of challenges today he normally wouldn’t.

[BabylonClaret]

Its poor at the moment Spice. You cant atgue that away and the team looks a shadow of the one that did so well last season. Our passing is really struggling. Despite taking the lead and looki g fairly co.fortable at the start of the 2nd half we went on to become second best.

Something doesnt feel quite right - im damned if i can come up with any answer but i can understand why people are moaning and having a pop.

[claretspice]

I don’t think the OP is far wrong in the assessment. We do need a leader on the pitch and it is lacking. My personal observation is that we didn’t win enough 2nd balls - we certainly did the hard work and closed down to challenge, often successfully, but once we challenged, the 2nd ball almost inevitably went their way. I’m not sure leadership on the pitch can sort that, or if it’s just a confidence thing, but we really should be winning our fair share but we’re just not.

My real fear is apathy from some senior players and it’s killing the confidence - I don’t normally single our players who need to show more of what they’re capable of, but Ben Mee has looked off most of the season, and Jack Cork is either carrying a knock or fearful of injury, he shirked out of challenges today he normally wouldn’t.

Again, you've no evidence of apathy whatsoever. It might be your opinion, but its an opinion made from a position of knowing next to nothing about the dynamics of the squad. The blocks and last ditch tackles that all our players made today suggests no apathy at all.

As for the second balls, the fact they had 3 central midfielders and 3 centre halves against 2 centre forwards and 2 central midfielders, might have had something to do with the fact they won them.

[boatshed bill]

There is a growing trend in the Premier League where player power results in the sacking of a manager, a la Chelsea, Swansea and what seems to be happening at united now, where they play no to an optimum. I sincerely hope this is not what is happening at our club, as it has been well documented that unrest of players following not being able to ply their trade in the Europa games, after busting a gut to get us in the Europa league last season.

You may have a point about the Europa games.

[thelaughingclaret]

Me really miss Barton. If he had been on the pitch he would’ve been going ape sh*t at everyone. That’s what we need in midfield. A strong player who can also lead from the middle. This is going to be a long hard season.

[claretspice]

Its poor at the moment Spice. You cant atgue that away and the team looks a shadow of the one that did so well last season. Our passing is really struggling. Despite taking the lead and looki g fairly co.fortable at the start of the 2nd half we went on to become second best.

Something doesnt feel quite right - im damned if i can come up with any answer but i can understand why people are moaning and having a pop.

We're not the same team, no. We're lacking not only our two best footballers from our golden spell last season - Defour and Brady - but also the confidence and conviction that came from winning games last season. I've said before we can do without one or the other, but not both.

I've no problem with folk venting frustration at the performance, at Dyche's tactics, at the result, but I do have a problem with folk inventing conspiracy theories about why we might not be doing so well, which ignore the obvious in favour of outlandish theories that don't reflect the facts of our success in the last 5 years.

[claretspice]

Me really miss Barton. If he had been on the pitch he would’ve been going ape sh*t at everyone. That’s what we need in midfield. A strong player who can also lead from the middle. This is going to be a long hard season.

Makes you wonder how we managed to get through last season and finish 7th without Joey.

[Rick_Muller]

Again, you've no evidence of apathy whatsoever. It might be your opinion, but its an opinion made from a position of knowing next to nothing about the dynamics of the squad. The blocks and last ditch tackles that all our players made today suggests no apathy at all.

As for the second balls, the fact they had 3 central midfielders and 3 centre halves against 2 centre forwards and 2 central midfielders, might have had something to do with the fact they won them.

Perhaps the apathy I can see with my own eyes from the stand this afternoon - yes last ditch tackles and all that but, and it is on occasion I grant you that, I saw Ben Mee today appear to not be bothered that their player skinned Taylor and he gave up the chase when 2 yards away and seemed to blame Taylor after the attack.

Thinking back, now you made me think more about it, Lowton gave up chase far too easily too a couple of times today, and one was a wayward pass from Ben Mee.

I’m just observing that something doesn’t seem right, and I’m my eyes there is a degree of apathy.

[Vegas Claret]

Ashley Westwood was captain of Crewe at 18. He's therefore likely to be a leader.

Pretty sure Jack Cork has captained the last 3 clubs he's been at, at different times (even if not always club captain, though I think he was at Swansea). He's therefore likely to be a leader too.

Dean Marney on the other hand was known for being a quiet fella, even if he played in a more blood and thunder way.

So in summary, I'm not sure there's any basis to this proposition on which this thread is based at all. There appears to be a desire to find ways, any old ways, of having a pop at the players or management, and think it reflects worse on the posters concerned than on the targets.

So because Westwood and Cork have been captains that automatically makes them leaders ? I think not

[Stayingup]

Barton and Marney gone and have not been replaced (it's not just the on pitch time I'm talking about here). Ben Mee at the moment is playing like anything other than a captain.

Roll on January and hope the board back the manager

What midfield. Been obvious for ages we need a strong enforcer. Two windows ago.

[Blackrod]

Was just saying today we could have done with a Barton out there. We looked powderpuff and lightweight in the middle.

[Stayingup]

Again, you've no evidence of apathy whatsoever. It might be your opinion, but its an opinion made from a position of knowing next to nothing about the dynamics of the squad. The blocks and last ditch tackles that all our players made today suggests no apathy at all.

As for the second balls, the fact they had 3 central midfielders and 3 centre halves against 2 centre forwards and 2 central midfielders, might have had something to do with the fact they won them.

Blocks and tackles that ALL our players made? I don't think so.

[claretspice]

Perhaps the apathy I can see with my own eyes from the stand this afternoon - yes last ditch tackles and all that but, and it is on occasion I grant you that, I saw Ben Mee today appear to not be bothered that their player skinned Taylor and he gave up the chase when 2 yards away and seemed to blame Taylor after the attack.

Thinking back, now you made me think more about it, Lowton gave up chase far too easily too a couple of times today, and one was a wayward pass from Ben Mee.

I’m just observing that something doesn’t seem right, and I’m my eyes there is a degree of apathy.

I think you're massively overstating this to be honest. There's been no more committed group of players in the league for the last 2 years and it strikes me that the complacency is probably with us fans, who have grown so used to seeing the group give everything, rather than with the players themselves not caring.

Clearly, we're not at our best, but conclude that amounts like to apathy seems to me to be a bit like waking up in the night, thinking its a bit warm and immediately concluding its a fire, rather than checking you've not just left the central heating on. You're looking for extreme answers rather than the more likely - its confidence, perhaps a little bit of tiredness, etc.

There players are good characters. They've shown that consistently for 5 years and they deserve the benefit of the doubt, at the very worst.

[claretspice]

So because Westwood and Cork have been captains that automatically makes them leaders ? I think not

No, but its much better evidence that anything you've cited to suggest they're not, isn't it?

[Vegas Claret]

No, but its much better evidence that anything you've cited to suggest they're not, isn't it?

not for me, I go off what I see and I don't see Westwood or Cork handing out bollockings or encouragement like the likes of Barton did - what Westwood did when he was 18 is irrelevant

[jojomk1]

I go off what I see, and for the last few games that has been that Cork and Westwood have been pretty poor
Certainly neither look like leaders, in fact I would prefer neither to be starting but our lack of activity in the market this summer means they are pretty much certain to be in the starting 11 (Hendrick is the only other option and should be starting the next game)

[RocketLawnChair]

Makes you wonder how we managed to get through last season and finish 7th without Joey.

Because for the majority of two dozen games Steven Defour was immense. Oh in the middle of midfield.

[piston broke]

My personal observation is that we didn’t win enough 2nd balls - we certainly did the hard work and closed down to challenge, often successfully, but once we challenged, the 2nd ball almost inevitably went their way.

More than likely due to them having 3 in there to our 2. That was the match for Hendrick behind Vokes.

[Rick_Muller]

More than likely due to them having 3 in there to our 2. That was the match for Hendrick behind Vokes.

Fair comment, perhaps we underestimated them a little by not having Hendrick in from the start as a 3 man midfield.

[Ooogeorgeorgeoghani]

I said the same a few weeks back I thought cork may be the player to step up but I think be lacks the aggression if Barton ( who doesn't though)

[Stayingup]

Makes you wonder how we managed to get through last season and finish 7th without Joey.

Aye but the chips are down now and in this situation we need tgat type of leadership