Dyche in or out

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:26 pm

If for whatever reason we found ourselves in a situation where we had to replace SD mid-season, presumably when we were in or around the relegation places there is zero recent evidence that we, or any other club of similar stature could attract a 'world class' manager.

If we had to make an appointment in the near future the realistic choices would be Moyes or Bruce, Warnock (a free agent sooner or later), longer odds Allardyce. Currently employed Championship managers who have their club at the top end of that league like Wilder and Smith, would not see Burnley as a logical career move if there was a threat of relegation and the players available couldn't adapt to their preferred style. What's more there is zero evidence they could do what SD has done - lead a team out of the Championship (twice) and keep them competitive at the highest level with the odds very much stacked against them.

To quote SD himself no-one is saying this is a forever story but as things stand he has more than enough credit in the bank to be given the chance to try and restore what he's been building for 5/6 years and what's missing from last season.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:28 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Wouldn't either need or attract a so-called world class manager, just a decent one at PL level.
There would be candidates, there always are.

World class weren't my words. Someone else suggested there'd be plenty of world class managers wanting the job. There wouldn't.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:38 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:If for whatever reason we found ourselves in a situation where we had to replace SD mid-season, presumably when we were in or around the relegation places there is zero recent evidence that we, or any other club of similar stature could attract a 'world class' manager.

If we had to make an appointment in the near future the realistic choices would be Moyes or Bruce, Warnock (a free agent sooner or later), longer odds Allardyce. Currently employed Championship managers who have their club at the top end of that league like Wilder and Smith, would not see Burnley as a logical career move if there was a threat of relegation and the players available couldn't adapt to their preferred style. What's more there is zero evidence they could do what SD has done - lead a team out of the Championship (twice) and keep them competitive at the highest level with the odds very much stacked against them.

To quote SD himself no-one is saying this is a forever story but as things stand he has more than enough credit in the bank to be given the chance to try and restore what he's been building for 5/6 years and what's missing from last season.

And there in a nutshell is why the lower reaches of the PL are so repetitively boring, Moyes, Allardice, Pardew, Bruce, Pulis, and Colin.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:42 pm

boatshed bill wrote:And there in a nutshell is why the lower reaches of the PL are so repetitively boring, Moyes, Allardice, Pardew, Bruce, Pulis, and Colin.

Does Mourinho play exciting football?

Many Man U fans don't think so.

Fretters · Post by **Fretters** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:46 pm

In, to moronic question (No offence to the OP) . I can't even be aresd reading beyond the first page before responding, it's ridiculous that anyone would want him out. I saw somebody say we've served up crap football for 12 months now. Last November, until Brady got injured, we were playing some brilliant stuff. And then Defour got injured. He brought Cork in after promising Defour that we'd move away from route one football and we absolutely did. Do we not remember the goal at Everton? And the football we played in the first promotion season was breathtaking and you could tell last season that Dyche was trying to get us back towards that before the injuries struck.

Some folk need to give their heads a wobble. We're low on confidence with flair players out injured, that's all.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:48 pm

Taking over a club at risk of relegation would scare a lot of managers off, as it goes straight onto their CV. But SD is hardly going to walk away unless he has a job to walk into, anyway. Not on his wage.

But I wouldn't want him to leave anyway. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. He's just got a squad that on paper are top-end Championship quality, into 7th place. He doesn't have his best player available due to injury, and clearly, some of the players he wanted to sign over the summer, the board wouldn't sanction.

Give him a break.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:51 pm

From what I can gather, SD is on a yearly salary of approx £3.5mill .

Mike Garlick will have to employ extra staff to open the envelopes of all the applicants.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:52 pm

Am I really reading a thread with this title? Give me strength. Absolutely incredible.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:56 pm

I was asking for strength yesterday as well, the strength to sit through another turgid borefest served up by the messiah of Burnley.

Absolutely incredible garbage more like.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:58 pm

Nonayforever wrote:From what I can gather, SD is on a yearly salary of approx £3.5mill .

Mike Garlick will have to employ extra staff to open the envelopes of all the applicants.

If Dyche left it's more than likely we'd be well on our way into the Championship. Thankfully I doubt he would be sacked anyway. There's no way we'd pay a new manager £3.5m a year in the Championship. As has been well said above there'd be limitations in candidates if we were facing relegation. Some of what's said on here is just fanciful.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:58 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Am I really reading a thread with this title? Give me strength. Absolutely incredible.

You dont have to read this thread it is optional

Hapag Lloyd · Post by **Hapag Lloyd** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:59 pm

ksrclaret wrote:I was asking for strength yesterday as well, the strength to sit through another turgid borefest served up by the messiah of Burnley.

Absolutely incredible garbage more like.

You don’t have to.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:12 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Am I really reading a thread with this title? Give me strength. Absolutely incredible.

Hi CT,

Yes, you are reading a thread with this title.

In case you haven't noticed, the brand of football is not what is expected.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Am I really reading a thread with this title? Give me strength. Absolutely incredible.

The clue of the thread is in the title. Pretty obvious what it was going to be about.

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:14 pm

Absolutely Incredible that someone can sit through that performance and not admit to being slightly concerned.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:15 pm

Not what is expected is being polite. There were times yesterday I was drifting off or found myself thinking about lesson plans for the next week.

The football sucks the life out of the fans and the team and is thoroughly depressing.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:32 pm

Spijed wrote:Does Mourinho play exciting football?

Many Man U fans don't think so.

What is the relevance of this comment?

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:16 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:28 pm

Aclaret wrote:Absolutely Incredible that someone can sit through that performance and not admit to being slightly concerned.

Concerned yes demanding Dyche sacked no. Time for some players to step up.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:35 pm

Nonayforever wrote:Hi CT,

Yes, you are reading a thread with this title.

In case you haven't noticed, the brand of football is not what is expected.

And I find it incredible. I really don't know what some of you want but the overreaction to a disappointing performance is absolutely ridiculous, one of the reasons why I stay off this board at times now.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:36 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Not what is expected is being polite. There were times yesterday I was drifting off or found myself thinking about lesson plans for the next week.

The football sucks the life out of the fans and the team and is thoroughly depressing.

Dear oh dear, any reason why you go then if that's what you think?

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Dear oh dear, any reason why you go then if that's what you think?

Quite simply because I’m a burnley supporter and season ticket holder.

It’s an absolute chore though at the moment and I’m looking forward to the day when someone injects some excitement and dynamism into our performances to be honest.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:06 pm

It amazes me that so many have forgotten how well we played at times last season, and even in games this. Southampton, Olympiakos & Bournemouth for example.

You simply do not finish 7th by playing dire football!

Claretnick · Post by **Claretnick** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:19 pm

IN without any hesitation at all. I find it disgusting that the question is being asked. I thought Burnley fans were better than following the 'sheep' mentality, one or two rabble rousers have been stirring the pot for a little while now and get all excited when we lose or perform poorly and amazingly are quiet as mice when the Clarets win; sadly a few more 'sheep' seem to be falling in line.
Yes the season has started slowly and we all know the reasons but surely the gaffer has earned the right to receive patience from the fans whilst issues are sorted, we can play exciting football as we observed in the first half of last season. Let's not forget the team are not robots but human beings and are subject to the same mental pressures at work like the rest of us (15 games played so far I believe), okay their rewards are huge in comparison to ours but they are still human with the same failings we have....
Why don't we just chill out during this break and let the guys get on with their work at Gawthorpe. UTC

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:10 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Am I really reading a thread with this title? Give me strength. Absolutely incredible.

shouldn't be that much of a surprise when the players ratings things is on here with same people happily giving 3's to our players

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:15 pm

A blindingly obvious IN. Joke thread considering SD's achievements for us and the ride of the last 5 years. Our peer group of Lancashire town clubs.....Bolton, Barstewards, Blackpool, PNE......act as a perfect illustration of where we would be without his contribution. This is the first time in since 2013 when any reasonable person can feel unhappy about performances and even then the current context is that we are 12th in the Premier League, a league it is, to be fair, something of a lesser miracle that we are in. Calling for him to be sacked is, well, ridiculous.
He is a very bright man and, in Dion Dublin's words "a winner", who will turn it round and if he stays in charge we will continue to progress and evolve as we definitely were doing last season prior to injuries to creative players.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:45 pm

some on here have said they prefer championship, so there you go, dyche has been incredible for this club. Its crazy to be talking about him going.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:54 pm

Thing is people are claiming it's just our newer, Premiership fans who are fed up but that's really not the case. I've spoken to loads of people who I consider to be diehards who've followed us for years who aren't happy, say they aren't enjoying going on the Turf, can't be bothered going to away games at the moment etc. The happy clappers can bury their heads in the sand all they want but this season so far has been unacceptable from a manager who is being paid a fortune by the Club.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:57 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Thing is people are claiming it's just our newer, Premiership fans who are fed up but that's really not the case. I've spoken to loads of people who I consider to be diehards who've followed us for years who aren't happy, say they aren't enjoying going on the Turf, can't be bothered going to away games at the moment etc. The happy clappers can bury their heads in the sand all they want but this season so far has been unacceptable from a manager who is being paid a fortune by the Club.

So diehards who have seen us through the years consider this season to be worse than previous ones?

We've only played 8 matches!

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:58 pm

My cousin is a Burnley fan, but as he lives in Derby he also supports Matlock Town. He could support Derby but no he goes on all the home games of Matlock Town. No doubt, hurrendous football, but him and his sons go on the home games whilst his wife does whatever women do on Saturday afternoons.

People complain about going on to the Turf and how we play, but... isn't the reason you go on, to support your team? If people went on to be entertained, they wouldn't support Matlock Town. They wouldn't support even lower end Championship clubs. They go on, to give support to their team and will them on.

The 'fans' who go onto the Man U games, Chelsea games, Man City games et al - we know they don't passionately support their teams.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:03 pm

I am no happy clapper, far from it, but we are playing in the top flight, fans have got to expect occasional slips in form now and then.
Its utter madness to be taking potshots at this manager, we were crap for decades, just have a look at the premier table !

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:06 pm

Spijed wrote:So diehards who have seen us through the years consider this season to be worse than previous ones?

We've only played 8 matches!

It's not just this season, it's an accumulation of the last few seasons. The dreadful football we generally have to watch was just about tolerable when it was getting results but that's changed now.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:15 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Am I really reading a thread with this title? Give me strength. Absolutely incredible.

A select few here have gone full "Pulis Out" in under three seasons in the top flight, ridiculous.

Wah, Wah dull football etc. How long ago would you have bitten your arm off to be 12th in the Premier League? People thinking because we get the same money as team with billionaire owners we are somehow high rollers who can splash cash around on punts.

Too many spoilt fans demanding bread and circuses, looking for week in week out satisfaction and not facing the reality of our circumstances.

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:16 pm

Eh ? What alternative reality are you describing jrgbfc ? We haven't played "dreadful football" for "the last few seasons". There have been some incredible performances and results and if your a Burnley fan and haven't enjoyed the last 5 years then it's probably best to consider supporting someone else.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:25 pm

jrgbfc wrote:It's not just this season, it's an accumulation of the last few seasons. The dreadful football we generally have to watch was just about tolerable when it was getting results but that's changed now.

We played some absolutely fantastic stuff last season.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:57 am

we've actually played some very good football this season as well at times but those times haven't been often enough. its a bit of a confidence thing and we just haven't quite clicked yet this season but the foundations are still there and i don't think there's any danger of us going down.

for me, throwing away our european campaign like we did has put a dampener on the season and the whole thing has felt pretty flat since then. even for a home game against man united, the crowd was pretty dead and there does feel a bit of a malaise has developed.

europe was a once in a blue moon thing for a club like us - not to say we'll never get there again but realistically its unlikely. that we didn't give it a proper go makes you wonder what the point is. last year was a brilliant season, all that hard work to get into europe all for nothing really. for me, its taken a real edge off things and it wouldn't surprise me if it has done for some of the players.

its up to dyche to get things going again and i think he will. a bit of patience from the fans is required, he's certainly earned that.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:02 am

quoonbeatz wrote:we've actually played some very good football this season as well at times but those times haven't been often enough. its a bit of a confidence thing and we just haven't quite clicked yet this season but the foundations are still there and i don't think there's any danger of us going down.

for me, throwing away our european campaign like we did has put a dampener on the season and the whole thing has felt pretty flat since then. even for a home game against man united, the crowd was pretty dead and there does feel a bit of a malaise has developed.

europe was a once in a blue moon thing for a club like us - not to say we'll never get there again but realistically its unlikely. that we didn't give it a proper go makes you wonder what the point is. last year was a brilliant season, all that hard work to get into europe all for nothing really. for me, its taken a real edge off things and it wouldn't surprise me if it has done for some of the players.

its up to dyche to get things going again and i think he will. a bit of patience from the fans is required, he's certainly earned that.

Totally agree regarding Europe, however playing Man U, season in, season out is never going to remain as exciting, neither is playing the other bigger clubs.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:06 am

Spijed wrote:Totally agree regarding Europe, however playing Man U, season in, season out is never going to remain as exciting, neither is playing the other bigger clubs.

it isn't, spijed, it was alsways going to happen the longer we spent at this level, its happened at plenty of other clubs before us, just surviving is boring.

and that just reinforces my point. playing in europe freshened things up, there was some real excitement about it. pretty much a one off opportunity to play some big teams from the continent and we didn't give it a proper go.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:18 am

Totally disagree about Europe. Imo it's one if the main reasons why we are not playing well, surpassed only by the pathetic last 2 trasnsfer windows. Too many players look lethargic. Should have finished 8th.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:29 am

As much as I think we have been poor so far this season, it'll be unfair to pot Dyche. Burnley will never play attractive football at this level on a consistent basis. No manager can bring that to Turf Moor unless we had billionaire owners. The time Dyche goes is when its time. The time isn't now.

After watching the Huddersfield game, I don't know what the answer is. Defour, Brady and Gibson wouldn't have made a difference in that performance... even if they all played.

I just wish Dyche would come out and say "That was ****". I know he has to protect players in public, but he should give the fans come credit though. It wasn't good.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:10 am

Thing is you know when he says "we lost our way" he means "we were ****".

No doubt he'll have let the players know just how angry he was and how unacceptable it was.

It did remind me of Hulls performance v us when we were already down and they would have a great chance of staying up if they won, and they completely bottled it though.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:49 am

Is Paul Lambert available?

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:17 am

A West Brom or Stoke version of Cricketfieldclaret could have posted the exact same thing 1 or 2 years ago. Their respective managers did equally impressive things on a shoestring YET we were all laughing merrily away at their hoofball attempts at football. It would seem madness (on the surface) to get rid of Dyche BUT if this level if team ineptness and utter visual drivel continues for much longer, it wouldn`t be beyond reason for the board to have a conversation. Cardiff and Huddersfield were unacceptable (the latter especially). I suspect it will improve once Defour returns (hopefully Brady too!) but geez that was PAINFUL to watch on Saturday and again, if West Brom under Pulis would`ve served THAT display up we`d all have been p*ssing ourselves.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:18 am

In the nicest possible way, Cardiff was not unacceptable because we won.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:20 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:In the nicest possible way, Cardiff was not unacceptable because we won.

A fair point but the performance, for many, was bloody awful!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:21 am

First half granted but certainly enough 2nd half to get the job done.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:28 am

first half against huddersfield was fine, it was the 2nd which was poor. i don't remember any of us laughing at stoke and west brom, especially the latter as they usually tubbed us.

unbeaten in 3, despite not playing really well, but the board could reasonably have a conversation about firing the manager? don't be daft.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:30 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:It did remind me of Hulls performance v us when we were already down and they would have a great chance of staying up if they won, and they completely bottled it though.

Is that the case? Perhaps it was simply that Hull had little left in the tank whereas we all know that against Huddersfield we are capable of far better and have a much better squad than them.

I suspect Dyche saw it as a point that must not be lost in the circumstances to maintain the gap between us and the bottom sides. We all know he's not the most cautious chap and he certainly would rather keep a point than risk losing one and going for all three.

ChorltonCharlie · Post by **ChorltonCharlie** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:31 am

People are directing their ire in the wrong direction. Here’s the thing with football… it’s entertaining when it’s free flowing football and you’re a neutral. It’s entertaining when you passionately support your team and it’s winning, week-in, week out. Watching your team play entertaining football week-in, week-out, but ultimately ending up on the wrong end of results is not entertaining. Watching teams play football like we did on Saturday as a neutral is dull as dish water. Let’s not kid ourselves that if Dyche suddenly attacked at all costs that people would tolerate the same results, because they wouldn’t. There was plenty of evidence under Howe of that.

The Premier League (and Champions League for that matter) is the reason why people feel as they do. The top 6 are far too dominant, which makes the rest guaranteed also-rans. We’ve got a manager who’s been incredible for us and has defied the odds. Yet we won 14 league games last season. That’s barely one a month, and we’re meant to be delighted from an entertainment point of view!? This season we sit 12th, even after last seasons success I think most reasonable fans would settle for 12th at the end of the season. The team finishing 12th last season won 11 and lost 16. It’s hard to think that in a black and white way we’ll find that entertaining as supporters for years on end. Finishing 7th was an incredible achievement, and even repeating that once with football in its current state is difficult to imagine. So can we please stop with the entertainment argument, because the idea of Burnley finishing mid-table season after season whilst ‘entertaining’ the fans is never going to happen. Yes Saturday was about as un-entertaining as it gets, but my point isn’t about one off games, it’s about performances AND results over a season.

Saturday was unacceptable, but to some degree, many of our fans have asked for it. There were so many people asking for the outdated return of 4-4-2 after the first month of the season. That is what Dyche gave the fans, and the last 4 league performances are the result of that, with the Bournemouth one an outlier that flattered us. The irony being that those 4 performances have produced 7 points, whilst the quality of play has nosedived. I don’t think there’s major changes needed, just going back to what has served us well last season and just needed tweaking before the international break. Hopefully the return of Defour will be a big contributor to that. A settled back four would help, and Gibson in for Mee would be another step in the evolution of this team as we try and keep possession better. The midfield of Defour, Cork and Hendrick was very successful last season, and needs to be the key in making us more solid and retain the ball better.

For me it’s an IN all the way. We have got one of the best managers in the game, and difficult start to this season (where we sit 12th!) does not change what he’s done for the previous 5 full seasons. The changes at the club should be more about being cleverer in the transfer market and allowing Dyche to be more flexible when it’s not going right. We were never going to get someone like Maddison, but there’ll be others out there like Dack who are the level below but would give us more options.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:35 am

Unfortunately with the run of games coming up I can only see the clamour to get shut of Sean increasing, people will simply ignore the opposition and use it as a stick to beat him further. Yes the football in the main this season has been garbage and some of the decisions baffling ( changing the team from Bournemouth where we looked somewhere back to our best), but I do believe that Sean has earned the right to turn the slide around. Sometimes it's better the devil you know