Young people can't afford to buy homes

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:18 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is it worth buying a house though?

Rent would be slightly higher than Mortgage payments with Building insurance but you don't have to pay for maintenance or Building repairs.

On a 100k house you would pay 200k with interest payments over the 25 year period (average).
25 years upkeep on a house would probably need one roof replacement and two times windows and doors. 3 times every room in the house being done up with 4 bathroom and kitchen replacements.
Let's say another 100k grand for arguments sake. 300k for a 150k property at the end of the mortgage?

Is it worth it? Is it better to rent better properties and have more money in your pocket?

Good points but what about when you reach retirement age and you're still having to pay 400 quid a month rent? Having a mortgage paid off is the key to being able to retire as early as possible I think.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:28 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is it worth buying a house though?

Rent would be slightly higher than Mortgage payments with Building insurance but you don't have to pay for maintenance or Building repairs.

On a 100k house you would pay 200k with interest payments over the 25 year period (average).
25 years upkeep on a house would probably need one roof replacement and two times windows and doors. 3 times every room in the house being done up with 4 bathroom and kitchen replacements.
Let's say another 100k grand for arguments sake. 300k for a 150k property at the end of the mortgage?

Is it worth it? Is it better to rent better properties and have more money in your pocket?

A roof that lasts only 25 years must be made of cellophane, surely? And for that matter windows that last less than 10 years are very very shoddy - mine are 34 years and counting, from that excellent and sadly defunct firm Nelson Glass. Landlords will not replace kitchens and bathrooms that often, either. (My kitchen and bathrooms are 34 years old, too. Though we did have to replace the fridge.)

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:28 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is it worth buying a house though?

Rent would be slightly higher than Mortgage payments with Building insurance but you don't have to pay for maintenance or Building repairs.

On a 100k house you would pay 200k with interest payments over the 25 year period (average).
25 years upkeep on a house would probably need one roof replacement and two times windows and doors. 3 times every room in the house being done up with 4 bathroom and kitchen replacements.
Let's say another 100k grand for arguments sake. 300k for a 150k property at the end of the mortgage?

Is it worth it? Is it better to rent better properties and have more money in your pocket?

rent for a 2 bed terraced house for me is currently £850/month and my landlord can give me 2 months notice to vacate and then try and find somewhere else to live in a highly competitive rental market. I have been forced to move twice in 6 years, my rent 6 years ago was £550/month. It costs anywhere between £1500 and £2500 to move each time depending on how you do it, and thats an additional cost on top of the dead money in renting.

Owning my own home would be perfect as I could plan for the longer term, and also cheaper than renting for more of a house where I live. Obviously thats once I get a deposit saved (another 6-12 months away from that).

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:45 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Of course that's a factor but can be minimised, even more reason not to be spendthrifty.

True. If a young person cut out a coffee a day then they could have enough for a deposit in 20 years.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:49 pm

aggi wrote:True. If a young person cut out a coffee a day then they could have enough for a deposit in 20 years.

They wouldn't need to cut it out - just make their own instead of paying someone else to do it for them.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:49 pm

Just points to put in for discussion.

I don't know if DSR is the tightest claret on here or has the most understanding wife.

I'm over halfway through my mortgage but having seen my Gran die recently who had valuable property in her time having to sell it to pay for residential and medical care. It put serious doubts in my mind if it's the right way to go. If it's really worth it all in the end?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:57 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Just points to put in for discussion.

I don't know if DSR is the tightest claret on here or has the most understanding wife.

I'm over halfway through my mortgage but having seen my Gran die recently who had valuable property in her time having to sell it to pay for residential and medical care. It put serious doubts in my mind if it's the right way to go. If it's really worth it all in the end?

No wife at all. But if I had, she would be the sort of woman who doesn't replace stuff that's still in good condition. I wouldn't marry her otherwise!

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:59 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is it worth buying a house though?

Rent would be slightly higher than Mortgage payments with Building insurance but you don't have to pay for maintenance or Building repairs.

On a 100k house you would pay 200k with interest payments over the 25 year period (average).
25 years upkeep on a house would probably need one roof replacement and two times windows and doors. 3 times every room in the house being done up with 4 bathroom and kitchen replacements.
Let's say another 100k grand for arguments sake. 300k for a 150k property at the end of the mortgage?

Is it worth it? Is it better to rent better properties and have more money in your pocket?

That's a possible argument (ignoring the current trend of increasing property values bumping up the value of your asset) if we had a more tenant-friendly rental sector. As it is, you can generally be ousted on two months notice, you're reliant on chasing the landlord for repairs (some good, some bad), generally no pets, a very limited option to decorate, etc It's not really conducive to long-term, stable living.

(I think your maths is probably a bit off as well. Mortgage would be nearer £150k on a £100k property and I'd expect bathrooms, kitchens and windows to last longer than that. Plus a 173% increase in 20 years suggests the property would be worth something in excess of £273k.)

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:12 pm

There are plenty of affordable homes, they are just not where they want them to be.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:17 pm

Which means there are not plenty of affordable homes then doesn't it?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which means there are not plenty of affordable homes then doesn't it?

Depends how choosy you are, I started off in a slum & progressed. Burnleymik is right but they are not desirable areas.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:29 pm

aggi wrote:True. If a young person cut out a coffee a day then they could have enough for a deposit in 20 years.

No, but the massive exaggeration was funny

I’m talking wholesale changes, pot noodles & rola cola, stopping in ect,

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:29 pm

Come off it, you know its not that simple.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:29 pm

aggi wrote:That's a possible argument (ignoring the current trend of increasing property values bumping up the value of your asset) if we had a more tenant-friendly rental sector. As it is, you can generally be ousted on two months notice, you're reliant on chasing the landlord for repairs (some good, some bad), generally no pets, a very limited option to decorate, etc It's not really conducive to long-term, stable living.

(I think your maths is probably a bit off as well. Mortgage would be nearer £150k on a £100k property and I'd expect bathrooms, kitchens and windows to last longer than that. Plus a 173% increase in 20 years suggests the property would be worth something in excess of £273k.)

Just remember when I first got my mortgage the paperwork said for every pound borrowed you will pay back £2.12 but I accept the interest rates have been kind to us over the last 10 years.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:31 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Come off it, you know its not that simple.

If I was a first time buyer I wouldn’t be bothered, it’s a rung on the ladder, buy cheap do it up sell on, the area will always have a ceiling though.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:39 pm

I seen something on Twitter about builders can't build new houses for the expected price they can sell them at around these parts.

Land prices have probably gone through the roof.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:40 pm

The discrepancy between house price and wage increases aside, which makes it very difficult without some sort of help, it’s perhaps harder these days for younger people than it has been in the past.

Cutting back on luxuries, being savvy and saving should be expected but there are many more things to pay for these days that most probably wouldn’t call a luxury, such as internet and mobile.

In terms of “luxuries”, and a lot of youngsters I suspect would not see some as a luxury, the number of things to pay for (should you wish) on a monthly basis, is ever increasing. Off the top of my head I pay monthly for Netflix, Amazon, SKY, Spotify, Soundcloud, iCloud storage, Nest, 365 and probably a load of others I can’t even remember.

Companies have certainly twigged on to the pay monthly approach as opposed to a one off up front payment.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:56 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which means there are not plenty of affordable homes then doesn't it?

There are plenty North of Watford.

It's about compromise. If getting on the housing ladder is incredibly important then they need to find a way for that to work. i.e. commute further or find work elsewhere which might pay a little less, but living costs are cheaper. You can't have everything, which seems to be part of the problem.

Maybe if they were prepared to move to where the cheaper housing was, then there wouldn't be as much competition for the rental properties in the more affluent areas, which in turn would push the price of rentals and housing down.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:01 pm

burnleymik wrote:There are plenty North of Watford.

It's about compromise. If getting on the housing ladder is incredibly important then they need to find a way for that to work. i.e. commute further or find work elsewhere which might pay a little less, but living costs are cheaper. You can't have everything, which seems to be part of the problem.

Maybe if they were prepared to move to where the cheaper housing was, then there wouldn't be as much competition for the rental properties in the more affluent areas, which in turn would push the price of rentals and housing down.

Burnleymik - I’m north of Watford - average house price here £300k - not affordable really. There are cheaper properties, but still looking at above £260k for 3 bed property.

So your idea is to move...? Where exactly? Burnley? 420 mile round trip to work...?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:04 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Burnleymik - I’m north of Watford - average house price here £300k - not affordable really. There are cheaper properties, but still looking at above £260k for 3 bed property.

So your idea is to move...? Where exactly? Burnley? 420 mile round trip to work...?

Do you want to own a home? Or do you want to live where you are?

Also, you talk about "Average" house prices... Be prepared to start out at the bottom, not at the average.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:20 pm

Norman Tebbit is alive and well............

SussexDon1inIreland · Post by **SussexDon1inIreland** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:29 pm

No one has mentioned on this thread that its immigration that is a huge factor in this discussion
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/why ... ng-crisis/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:31 pm

Most first time buyers don't need 3 bedrooms.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:33 pm

burnleymik wrote:Do you want to own a home? Or do you want to live where you are?

Also, you talk about "Average" house prices... Be prepared to start out at the bottom, not at the average.

What you are suggesting is unrealistic mate, this is an example of the “bottom” in my area...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for ... 17599.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anywhere within 25 miles is similar. I work for an organisation where I am required (as contracted) to live within a 25 mile radius - so what do you suggest? I leave a well paid job I enjoy to work where and live where exactly? Even if I did move further away to a cheaper property - the commuting costs wouldn’t be worth it.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:33 pm

FWIW I do think there is a distinct lack of social housing, but affordable housing is definitely available, it's just not in the locations where the demand is higher.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:34 pm

SussexDon1inIreland wrote:No one has mentioned on this thread that its immigration that is a huge factor in this discussion
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/why ... ng-crisis/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It’s a major issue these 2 things go hand in hand, I’m surprised it wasn’t mentioned earlier I think some people could be wary
acknowledging the relation not wanting xenophobic comments.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:37 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:What you are suggesting is unrealistic mate, this is an example of the “bottom” in my area...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for ... 17599.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anywhere within 25 miles is similar. I work for an organisation where I am required (as contracted) to live within a 25 mile radius - so what do you suggest? I leave a well paid job I enjoy to work where and live where exactly? Even if I did move further away to a cheaper property - the commuting costs wouldn’t be worth it.

I just did a quick Zoopla search of the postcode MK43 (from the property you posted) and a 5 mile radius...

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... SSTC=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is so much property available under 200k...

It's about managing expectations. You can't have everything.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:39 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:It’s a major issue these 2 things go hand in hand, I’m surprised it wasn’t mentioned earlier I think some people could be wary
acknowledging the relation not wanting xenophobic comments.

It is something I alluded to on the “people’s vote” thread that immigration and the affect on housing was a partial reason to me voting Leave because of my own housing situation, and yes I agree it does hold certain connotations thinking like that.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:43 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:It is something I alluded to on the “people’s vote” thread that immigration and the affect on housing was a partial reason to me voting Leave because of my own housing situation, and yes I agree it does hold certain connotations thinking like that.

You can’t place enough emphasis on how much immigration centres around this problem, but mentioning it you are banging the immigration drum again

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:49 pm

And you can't keep ignoring the effect of UK government policy has on this as well, but you choose to ignore it.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:04 pm

dsr wrote:I've never quite understood how a landlord selling to his tenant will increase the housing supply.

I presume it's the same way that selling council houses apparently reduces the housing supply.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:14 pm

AndrewJB wrote:How much did your first house cost as a multiple of your income at the time?

To be honest I can't recall but not 5% or even 10%. But it was a fair %age. A mid terrace. Nothing special

I must say I am no communist but I do share some of the current opposition views on this subject. Clamp down on builders holding onto land to keep.prices up and taxing second homes - in UK. Also we really need to address this massive North - South divide ( London really).and improve job prospects and thus wages in the North and Midlands. The northern powerhouse now under my MP.is doing what? Not a lot compared to.for example infrastructure projects in London.

Sorry about the rant but I feel very strong about this great North South chasm

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:16 pm

beddie wrote:In our small village over the last few years a number of properties (several are bungalows) have been placed with agents for Buy to Let, on checking, all of them are as a result of bereavement, the dependants favouring an income rather than a sale. Perhaps that adds to the national shorage of houses for sale.

It certainly does and needs to be addressed.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:25 pm

Our local starter homes are being offered at £160,000 this is in Teresas constituency.
60% mortgage so no one can afford them .
Labour needs to back 100% mortages as this is the only way people can afford them
We have 3 bed £600,000 new builds being snapped up by Londoners moving out to the country.This makes a mockery of housing need targets.
The local authority is worse than useless re rentals so people are forced into the private rental market where the average rental for a three bed is £1,300/month

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:36 pm

House are far to expensive, but generally not enough people have been that bothered about it, especially older people who already have their homes.

There are several ways to get on the ladder, but they usually include help to buy, or the stupid scheme of buying only part of the property.

Rent isn't much of a saving because it's usually more than a mortgage would cost.

I have heard that owning a house is given more importance than it is in places like Germany, something I'm curious to know if that's true.

Lastly neither party has done enough over the years to deal with house shortages and the large house builders have been carefully ensuring the housing market has stayed inflated price wise, one method is by snapping up various bits of land and 'sitting' on it for years at a time.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:39 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:I don't think the young are lazy not all anyhow, I think it's more down to not saving well & spending the money on daft things. Doesn't apply to all.

The Biggest Danger today for the young uns is Betting....Betting is gonna cause a lot of misery! End of.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:46 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is it worth buying a house though?

Rent would be slightly higher than Mortgage payments with Building insurance but you don't have to pay for maintenance or Building repairs.

On a 100k house you would pay 200k with interest payments over the 25 year period (average).
25 years upkeep on a house would probably need one roof replacement and two times windows and doors. 3 times every room in the house being done up with 4 bathroom and kitchen replacements.
Let's say another 100k grand for arguments sake. 300k for a 150k property at the end of the mortgage?

Is it worth it? Is it better to rent better properties and have more money in your pocket?

How do you pay rent when you're retired? This is a genuine question, I'm under 30 and have never thought about it before.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:46 pm

The Need For The Public Issuance Of Money/Credit Creation

Creating Money Out Of Thin Air........Fractional Reserve Banking ...By Private Banks

1997.....2007

"Why are house prices so high? Why is it so expensive for us to own a home? Why was there a housing bubble? Why was there a housing crisis?

In the ten years up to the start of the financial crisis, house prices rose by over 200%

Why?

A common belief is that there are too many people, too much immigration, and too few houses to go around.

But this is a "myth."

In fact, during this time for every 4 new people, we built 3 new homes.

But at the same time, mortgage lending grew by over 370%!"

https://positivemoney.org/issues/house-prices/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It reminds me of Say's law

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:49 pm

I've just read a link posted by bluelab for the first time...

I'm not sure if I should be punished now...

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:55 pm

GodIsADeeJay81

I'm not sure if I should be punished now...

I will get some holy water out to sprinkle over your post...

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:48 pm

SammyBoy wrote:How do you pay rent when you're retired? This is a genuine question, I'm under 30 and have never thought about it before.

Currently if you have under a certain amount of cash savings.. You will get help towards your rent..and C.Tax.If you own a house with no mortgage you don't get anything..and when /if you go into care the government take the house into consideration for your care.as I understand it. But I'm sure someone will correct me.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:28 pm

“Young people can’t afford to buy homes?”

Bit like saying someone with no money can’t buy a house.

Well of course they can’t so why do they still hang on to that unrealistic dream... that’s the real question that needs asking.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:37 pm

Do what we did; rent then step up to a very cheap property then work, save and move up to the next level and so on. Why aim for a £150 k home for starters?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:41 pm

I don't think it's an unrealistic dream to buy a house...only in London where foreign money as been allowed to price everyone out.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:41 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Do what we did; rent then step up to a very cheap property then work, save and move up to the next level and so on. Why aim for a £150 k home for starters?

£150k will be lucky to get you a shed down South let alone a house.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:44 pm

Wait until the interest rate reaches the dizzy heights of the 70's and 80's that I had to contend with.

The poo will really hit the fan then.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:47 pm

SammyBoy wrote:£150k will be lucky to get you a shed down South let alone a house.

The south is for posh people forcing the poor out.F...k Em! Mugs.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:48 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:Wait until the interest rate reaches the dizzy heights of the 70's and 80's that I had to contend with.

The poo will really hit the fan then.

Why..?

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:50 pm

Have a wild guess.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:52 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:Have a wild guess.

Well if you bought in the eighties funky you were quids in surely.?