Young soldiers pose with Tommy Robinson.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:16 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No one disagrees.

He did, above.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:17 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The media (mainstream) is never happy to criticise either, in fact they will largely go out of their way to do the opposite.

What exactly is this mainstream media you speak of, if it’s not the most widely read newspapers (and their associated websites) in the country?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:19 pm

burnleymik wrote:You are trying to take this away from a point I never made. Maybe that says more about you?

The media cannot criticise Islam or it is labelled as Islamophobic, that is always the point I have made. They can easily criticise other religions without the same ramifications.

The point you have always made is b0ll0cks. That’s the point I have always made.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:19 pm

Greenmile wrote:What exactly is this mainstream media you speak of, if it’s not the most widely read newspapers (and their associated websites) in the country?

He wouldn't know, he doesn't read them.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:20 pm

Greenmile wrote:If a member of the police or armed forces says the wrong thing or (openly) supports the wrong politics, then that would interfere with their job.

Case in point - these lads being filmed with a well known Islamophobe has brought the British army into disrepute and lowered their standing with many British Muslims, as well as increasing anti-British sentiment in the Muslim world (all to a very small extent, of course). That’s interfered with their job.

https://twitter.com/markacollett/status ... 7588081664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These 3 police officers were somewhat recently pictured performing the infamous one finger salute, does that interfere with their job?

It also has a solid jihadi pedigree, said Rita Katz, director of SITE Intelligence Group.

"The gesture has been used by jihadis for years, including high profile ones like Osama bin Laden. Within the jihadi context, the raised index finger takes on political meaning as well, widely rejecting any form of government not under Shariah law," she said.

Since then, it is not only used by fighters and supporters of IS but by those celebrating weddings in IS-held areas.

Like the Nazi salute or the raised fist, the gesture has become an integral part of IS propaganda, particularly among the young. Videos from IS-held areas frequently show small children saluting with a single finger in unison while shouting IS propaganda.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-what-sto ... te-1506249

Btw IT, hundreds of complaints were made about this to the met police and guess what. They totally ignored them.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:21 pm

Greenmile wrote:If a member of the police or armed forces says the wrong thing or (openly) supports the wrong politics, then that would interfere with their job.

Case in point - these lads being filmed with a well known Islamophobe has brought the British army into disrepute and lowered their standing with many British Muslims, as well as increasing anti-British sentiment in the Muslim world (all to a very small extent, of course). That’s interfered with their job.

Okay, if that is the case, by the very same standards Corbyn must be removed from office with immediate effect. Imagine the British people's feelings of having him photographed with well known IRA terrorist organisations and HAMAS etc.

Do you agree?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:21 pm

burnleymik wrote:He did, above.

Who? me? I agree anyone can think what they like, but public servants cannot express those thoughts in public (or within earshot of anyone) without risking consequences, and that’s the way it should be.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:22 pm

Greenmile wrote:The point you have always made is b0ll0cks. That’s the point I have always made.

No, the point is you want to portray something I haven't said and I know you realise that. Very disingenuous.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:25 pm

burnleymik wrote:Okay, if that is the case, by the very same standards Corbyn must be removed from office with immediate effect. Imagine the British people's feelings of having him photographed with well known IRA terrorist organisations and HAMAS etc.

Do you agree?

If there’s footage of him cheering and chanting their name, then yes I would agree. So would you, I reckon.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:27 pm

Greenmile wrote:If there’s footage of him cheering and chanting their name, then yes I would agree. So would you, I reckon.

Hang on, we are moving the goalposts now! Now it only counts if you chant their name or cheer? Earlier it was about posing for a photo with Robinson.

You are just highlighting your own double standards.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:28 pm

burnleymik wrote:Why would the IOPC investigate something like this if there wasn't a PC culture in place? If there wasn't such a minefield of worries about being labelled as endorsing racism, they would not have had to get involved in the first place.

The IOPC is investigating a complaint. It doesn't matter what the complaint is. There might be a PC culture in the police force, as there should be, but the IOPC isn't investigating this because they are PC nazis or whatever the implication is.

What if this whiter then white comment was a racist jibe at an officer? What if the officer who said it has a history of using othrrwise innocent sounding terms like this to bully one particular officer because he or she isn't white? You can't know that, and neither can the IOPC without investigating. Now, is investigating bullying evidence of PC gone mad?

For whatever reason an officer has made a complaint. Initially I thought they had to be stupid. But the more I consider it the more I can imagine scenarios where a complaint is understandable. Of course, the Telegraph has chosen not to elaborate on the complaint for some reason,and since I'm very familiar with how the right wing press like to take things out of context to stir their readership I'm going to be suspicious of their motives for not providing a more complete story regarding the complaint.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:28 pm

burnleymik wrote:No, the point is you want to portray something I haven't said and I know you realise that. Very disingenuous.

You say the media are scared to criticise Islam, right? Is that a fair portrayal of what you want to say?

Because I say that’s b0ll0cks.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:29 pm

burnleymik wrote:Hang on, we are moving the goalposts now! Now it only counts if you chant their name or cheer? Earlier it was about posing for a photo with Robinson.

You are just highlighting your own double standards.

Its an irrelevant argument anyway, because the simple fact of the matter is. It doesn't matter how extreme anyone on the left is whether it's Stalin or Corbyn, you will not lose your job for coming out in vocal support of them. That is totally not the case with anything right of the tory party.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:30 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:https://twitter.com/markacollett/status ... 7588081664

These 3 police officers were somewhat recently pictured performing the infamous one finger salute, does that interfere with their job?

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-what-sto ... te-1506249

Btw IT, hundreds of complaints were made about this to the met police and guess what. They totally ignored them.

I suspect they didn’t realise the significance of that gesture. If they did they should absolutely be sacked - no question.

Will you answer my question about who the “mainstream media” are, please?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:33 pm

burnleymik wrote:Hang on, we are moving the goalposts now! Now it only counts if you chant their name or cheer? Earlier it was about posing for a photo with Robinson.

You are just highlighting your own double standards.

I’ll accept my original post on this may not have been clear. If TR asked for a photo with these squaddies (or even vice versa) and they obliged, then no disciplinary action should have been taken, imo. That’s not what the video shows though.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:34 pm

Greenmile wrote:I suspect they didn’t realise the significance of that gesture. If they did they should absolutely be sacked - no question.

Will you answer my question about who the “mainstream media” are, please?

Sky News, the BBC, and The Guardian.

Those 3 are the main influencers of the people on the UK who make decisions and hold high positions.

You really think the deans of universities, chief of polices, politicians and head teachers sit there reading the daily mail and the express? No, they bend and shape their opinions in the mould of what liberal journalists create for them.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:36 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Sky News, the BBC, and The Guardian.

Those 3 are the main influencers of the people on the UK who make decisions and hold high positions.

You really think the deans of universities, chief of polices, politicians and head teachers sit there reading the daily mail and the express?

Thanks. Just those three then? How long do you think it would take me to find an article from one of them which criticises Islam or Muslims?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:38 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:https://twitter.com/markacollett/status ... 7588081664

These 3 police officers were somewhat recently pictured performing the infamous one finger salute, does that interfere with their job?

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-what-sto ... te-1506249

Btw IT, hundreds of complaints were made about this to the met police and guess what. They totally ignored them.

1. What makes you think they ignored them.
2. Does this mean I should report everyone on my Facebook for pointing in their photos?
3. Maybe they were busy investigating Obama's terrorist fist bump.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:38 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Sky News, the BBC, and The Guardian.

Those 3 are the main influencers of the people on the UK who make decisions and hold high positions.

You really think the deans of universities, chief of polices, politicians and head teachers sit there reading the daily mail and the express? No, they bend and shape their opinions in the mould of what liberal journalists create for them.

So every person in the above professions only read the Guardian newspaper!?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:40 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Sky News, the BBC, and The Guardian.

Those 3 are the main influencers of the people on the UK who make decisions and hold high positions.

You really think the deans of universities, chief of polices, politicians and head teachers sit there reading the daily mail and the express? No, they bend and shape their opinions in the mould of what liberal journalists create for them.

******* delusional.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:40 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:So every person in the above professions only read the Guardian newspaper!?

...and Sky News, and the BBC.

Nobody reads newspapers at all any more, apparently.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:43 pm

Greenmile wrote:...and Sky News, and the BBC.

Nobody reads newspapers at all any more, apparently.

The only two channels those pesky lefty brainwashing professionals watch I bet. They wouldn’t have time to read a newspaper as well.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:49 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:******* delusional.

Delusional and hilarious.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:51 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Delusional and hilarious.

I'd find it funny if I wasn't worried for him. He's been radicalised.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The IOPC is investigating a complaint. It doesn't matter what the complaint is. There might be a PC culture in the police force, as there should be, but the IOPC isn't investigating this because they are PC nazis or whatever the implication is.

No, the only reason I think they are pursuing it is because of that fear of the consequences if they don't.

What if this whiter then white comment was a racist jibe at an officer? What if the officer who said it has a history of using othrrwise innocent sounding terms like this to bully one particular officer because he or she isn't white? You can't know that, and neither can the IOPC without investigating. Now, is investigating bullying evidence of PC gone mad?

I agree we can't know that, but the article describes the context it was used in as being very meticulous in their inquiries.

For whatever reason an officer has made a complaint. Initially I thought they had to be stupid. But the more I consider it the more I can imagine scenarios where a complaint is understandable. Of course, the Telegraph has chosen not to elaborate on the complaint for some reason,and since I'm very familiar with how the right wing press like to take things out of context to stir their readership I'm going to be suspicious of their motives for not providing a more complete story regarding the complaint.

You are sounding like the very thing you are accusing Moffitt of here.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'd find it funny if I wasn't worried for him. He's been radicalised.

One day you'll convince me that everything I say is wrong and that i'm really just a paranoid, brainwashed stooge.

Honestly, I pray that day comes because I'm sure i'll live a happier existence with that worldview. As they say, ignorance is bliss, or "why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:07 pm

burnleymik wrote:No, the only reason I think they are pursuing it is because of that fear of the consequences if they don't.

I agree we can't know that, but the article describes the context it was used in as being very meticulous in their inquiries.

You are sounding like the very thing you are accusing Moffitt of here.

Of course they're investigating it for fear of consequences if they don't, because what if after investigating it they discover years of racial bullying, or something?

It might turn out that it's a frivolous complaint but it is still correct to investigate it, because what if it isn't frivolous? Then the complaint from you lot will be that the IOPC ignored complaints when one of them turns out to be serious and a copper sues. Then more victims come forward and they all sue too. Then it turns out that racism is all over the place but no one cared to investigate because some idiot anti-PC tares decided that the possibility of dog whistle racism and bullying isn't worth investigating. So now we have a police force with a bunch of racists and expect the public to trust them to police them fairly.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:15 pm

Surely you both can see how it looks for British Army soldiers to be cheering Tommy ******* Robinson?

I mean, you must understand how unacceptable that is surely?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Surely you both can see how it looks for British Army soldiers to be cheering Tommy ******* Robinson?

I mean, you must understand how unacceptable that is surely?

Not when you don't think Tommy ******* Robinson is unacceptable.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Yeah (sadly)

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:38 pm

I'm curious, if these were Muslim soldiers and that was Anjem Choudrey would there be any controversy if the army investigated?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:39 pm

Don't answer that, we all know the answer.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:40 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm curious, if these were Muslim soldiers and that was Anjem Choudrey would there be any controversy if the army investigated?

So you believe Tommy Robinson is the equivalent of Anjem Choudrey, a man who actively recruited people to fight and die in the name of the islamic caliphate?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:42 pm

Do you believe that its acceptable to have British Army soldiers cheering someone who is quite happy to do god knows what to the 2 million or so Muslims who are also British Citizens?

I mean, come on, you are not thick.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:44 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:So you believe Tommy Robinson is the equivalent of Anjem Choudrey, a man who actively recruited people to fight and die in the name of the islamic caliphate?

But it would just be banter. They'd just be standing next to him.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:44 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Do you believe that its acceptable to have British Army soldiers cheering someone who is quite happy to do god knows what to the 2 million or so Muslims who are also British Citizens?

I mean, come on, you are not that thick.

Find me a single quote of what negative thing he plans to do to 2 million muslims.

Please, I actually want you to.

If you do, I swear to god I will never give words of support for him again.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:But it would just be banter. They'd just be standing next to him.

So yes, you do.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:46 pm

Okay

So he's just annoyed at them for the sex scandal things (he not annoyed about white people doing it though)

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:50 pm

On the subject of the term 'liberal' is anyone else disturbed by how quickly American political terms (and lines of argument) enter our conversations here? Whereas there are overlapping issues, it seems strange that some of the words we use to describe things within particularly British (brexit, for example) issues continue to come from over there. It might be that I'm old, or even a bit closed minded; but I think we lose nuance when we default to another country's words rather than using our own.

Just my thoughts...

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:51 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Okay

So he's just annoyed at them for the sex scandal things (he not annoyed about white people doing it though)

Those "sex scandal things" as you so brazenly put it are the industrial scale torture and abuse of children the likes of which never seen before in this country, which, worse still was covered up and denied for decades.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:55 pm

Right, we both agree they are horrible and should be investigated. Thats a given mate, and you know that.

Now Tommy seems very keen on the Muslim part of that, much more so than the sex scandals generally.

If I was a Muslim, I'd be thinking "I don't think Tommy Robinson has our best interests at heart"

You think that is fair?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Find me a single quote of what negative thing he plans to do to 2 million muslims.

Please, I actually want you to.

If you do, I swear to god I will never give words of support for him again.

I mean he did say that every single Muslim got away with murder on 7/7 and if anything like that happens again they will feel the full force of the EDL

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:57 pm

He also said he would deport all male Muslims that have entered the EU over some 12 month period. Though that's not all Muslims in the UK so it's fine.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:58 pm

I've just come in, read through all this, and am amazed at the number of Robinson supporters on here. Perhaps Burnley really is the racist shithole it's perceived to be. I hope not.
I know some of his followerson here are well known for their nutjob views but, bloody hell, some of the crap posted on here is seriously disturbing.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:59 pm

I'm not sure the full force of the EDL would get past the first pub stop if we are being perfectly honest.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Right, we both agree they are horrible and should be investigated. Thats a given mate, and you know that.

Now Tommy seems very keen on the Muslim part of that, much more so than the sex scandals generally.

If I was a Muslim, I'd be thinking "I don't think Tommy Robinson has our best interests at heart"

You think that is fair?

could that be because those crimes were being perpetrated by like 99% Muslim men?

Perhaps, being a working class lad from these types of communities, it rubbed him the wrong way to see girls in his communities, people he knew personally being abused in this way and the authorities turning a blind eye to it all? I myself know a girls who this happened to right here in Burnley, and yes, I know her personally, she was so messed up over it she attempted suicide when she was 16 and while she seems to be all right now, i can't even imagine the damage under the surface she must feel.

So, given that, do you think its so disgusting that he sort of feels like he has something of a battle to fight for people like him, who he feels are being let down and abused by the system?

Black lives matter are only interested in police brutality when it affects black people, do you think they are evil racists too?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:04 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm not sure the full force of the EDL would get past the first pub stop if we are being perfectly honest.

An interesting speech non the less. He's a really weird paranoid racist. Just been looking at old Tweets of his calling Muslims "hooknose". He's mental.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:07 pm

Moffit, can you not understand why black lives matter is a thing though? I know it sounds kind of exclusive, but it's only because am unusually high proportion of deaths at the hands of white police officers are of black people. It's not saying "only blacks matter" it's trying to change this weird notion that it's somehow fine for the police to discriminate and murder unarmed and unthreatening black people.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:08 pm

So you think he's a principled freedom fighter or something then?

You've not just taken one blue bill mate, you've taken a whole bloody stash of them.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:11 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Moffit, can you not understand why black lives matter is a thing though? I know it sounds kind of exclusive, but it's only because am unusually high proportion of deaths at the hands of white police officers are of black people. It's not saying "only blacks matter" it's trying to change this weird notion that it's somehow fine for the police to discriminate and murder unarmed and unthreatening black people.

Maybe yes, maybe no.

There is an unusually high number of white girls being systematically raped by pakistani men in this country. That is a fact. There is no pussyfooting around that. So my question is, why is one special interest group fighting one corner on the grounds of race okay, but another doing the exact same thing not?

Or is it low class white girls are just worth that little in this country?